PDA

View Full Version : the fed audit and the 15t




Athanasius
10-25-2011, 08:49 PM
so this is a reply i received in an argument against Cain and the FED. is this true about the partial audit? help me fact check this guy and respond...i was enjoying the argument but i have to go to work...


Let's look at the Fed and the whole argument that it was recently audited for the first time ever and uncovered that we had given away $15 trillion to foreign governments. Absolutely FALSE. Anyone who states that never took the time to go and read the audit and if they did were incapable of understanding the numbers in it.

First off, the Fed has been audited literally 100's of times. Each audit has focused on different parts at different times, but the Fed is one of the most widely audited government organizations in America. People who make out like it has gone rogue and is free from audit are just trying to get people riled up. Secondly, the GAO audit that you reference did not state that we "gave away" $15 trillion. There was a chain email/report going around claiming that (actually the number was closer to $16T) but it wasn't factual.

I looked into the GAO report myself because the facts just didn't add up when someone tried to tell me what you are in this post. That article that was being forwarded in chain emails grossly misrepresents the $16 trillion of lending that is cited in the GAO report and what that amount represents. The $16 trillion cited in the report is an aggregate amount of borrowing from the Fed. The following example of the term aggregate lending, as used in its report, comes directly from the GAO report on page 130 if you care to read it: "For example, an overnight PDCF loan of $10 billion that was renewed daily at the same level for 30 business days would result in an aggregate amount borrowed of $300 billion although the institution, in effect, borrowed only $10 billion over 30 days."

To look at it differently, if your mortagage of $100K was structured with a term of 1 day at 0% interest renewed daily for 30 years, as opposed to a conventional 30 year term, it could be said that your aggregate borrowing on a $100K loan was $1.1 billion. In fact, you only received $100K but you kept it for 30 years. It would not be accurate to say the bank lent you $1.1 billion for a house only worth $100K, but that is what the people regurgitating that we gave away $16 trillion are implying in order to get people riled up for their cause.

The article going around in emails leads you to believe that $16 trillion was covertly "given" out to banks and has not been returned. Reading the first paragraph of the GAO report clears up a lot of what is sensationalized in the article. The balance of any loans outstanding at any one point in time peaked at $1 trillion in late 2008 during the financial crisis. That means at no point in time was $16 trillion outstanding, it was $1 trillion outstanding at its peak in 2008. Virtually all of the money has been returned. As short term loans were made, most of which were overnight loans, others were repaid and essentially the same money was recycled and lent to a lot of recipients at different times for very short periods. Instead, virtually all of this money HAS BEEN returned and is not outstanding today.

In case you want to read the actual GAO report, here is the link from Bernie Sanders' website (btw, he also had no clue what aggregate lending meant):

http://sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO%20Fed%20Investigation.pdf

The first paragraph of the GAO report is pasted below:

On numerous occasions in 2008 and 2009, the Federal Reserve Board invoked emergency authority under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 to authorize new broad-based programs and financial assistance to individual institutions to stabilize financial markets. Loans outstanding for the emergency programs peaked at more than $1 trillion in late 2008. The Federal Reserve Board directed the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (FRBNY) to implement most of these emergency actions. In a few cases, the Federal Reserve Board authorized a Reserve Bank to lend to a limited liability corporation (LLC) to finance the purchase of assets from a single institution. In 2009 and 2010, FRBNY also executed large-scale purchases of agency mortgage-backed securities to support the housing market. The table below provides an overview of all emergency actions covered by this report. The Reserve Banks’ and LLCs’ financial statements, which include the emergency programs’ accounts and activities, and their related financial reporting internal controls, are audited annually by an independent auditing firm. These independent financial statement audits, as well as other audits and reviews conducted by the Federal Reserve Board, its Inspector General, and the Reserve Banks’ internal audit function, did not report any significant accounting or financial reporting internal control issues concerning the emergency programs.

wstrucke
10-25-2011, 10:23 PM
I want to say Ron Paul also quoted the 16T number -- if he did and this is true (which it sound quite plausible) that would be deeply troubling.

wilcox71
10-25-2011, 10:26 PM
I think newt even quoted the 15T also...

sailingaway
10-25-2011, 10:30 PM
Just show him the statute allowing fed audits. The exceptions swallow what can be audited. Then show him HR1207 which merely removed those exceptions. Before Sanders gutted it in the Senate.

sailingaway
10-25-2011, 10:31 PM
Just show him the statute allowing fed audits. The exceptions swallow what can be audited. Then show him HR1207 which merely removed those exceptions. Before Sanders gutted it in the Senate.

Just google the 16 trillion http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/forum/1720/audit-federal-reserve-reveals-16-trillion-secret-bailouts

Athanasius
10-25-2011, 10:38 PM
this is the introduction to his argument...should have included.

I'll start by saying I am not a democrat. Never have been. Ronald Reagan is my hero. Love the guy and USED TO consider myself a republican. But, just as Reagan said when he converted from the democratic party to the republican party, he didn't leave the democratic party, the democratic party left him. I now consider myself a "free agent" in the world of politics because the republican party was taken over by uneducated extremist who have good intentions, but don't know what they are talking about. I have come to understand that the hard core right and hard core left is filled with a bunch of people who get their information from chain emails filled with half truths and false information.

This country can't get going because of all of the false information floating around intended to drive people to support the extremist views from both parties. That has polarized people on both sides of the political isle and as a result, the people have voted in those people with only the most extreme views in their party. As a result, common sense solutions that need to happen in order to get us out of this mess can't happen because the core voters behind both parties are threatening to vote them out if they give an inch from their hard core beliefs founded in false truths gathered from chain emails.

Athanasius
10-25-2011, 10:42 PM
Just show him the statute allowing fed audits. The exceptions swallow what can be audited. Then show him HR1207 which merely removed those exceptions. Before Sanders gutted it in the Senate.

Just google the 16 trillion http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/forum/1720/audit-federal-reserve-reveals-16-trillion-secret-bailouts

this doesn't address the aggregate thing...
The article going around in emails leads you to believe that $16 trillion was covertly "given" out to banks and has not been returned. Reading the first paragraph of the GAO report clears up a lot of what is sensationalized in the article. The balance of any loans outstanding at any one point in time peaked at $1 trillion in late 2008 during the financial crisis. That means at no point in time was $16 trillion outstanding, it was $1 trillion outstanding at its peak in 2008. Virtually all of the money has been returned. As short term loans were made, most of which were overnight loans, others were repaid and essentially the same money was recycled and lent to a lot of recipients at different times for very short periods. Instead, virtually all of this money HAS BEEN returned and is not outstanding today.

freejack
10-26-2011, 07:34 AM
this doesn't address the aggregate thing...
The article going around in emails leads you to believe that $16 trillion was covertly "given" out to banks and has not been returned. Reading the first paragraph of the GAO report clears up a lot of what is sensationalized in the article. The balance of any loans outstanding at any one point in time peaked at $1 trillion in late 2008 during the financial crisis. That means at no point in time was $16 trillion outstanding, it was $1 trillion outstanding at its peak in 2008. Virtually all of the money has been returned. As short term loans were made, most of which were overnight loans, others were repaid and essentially the same money was recycled and lent to a lot of recipients at different times for very short periods. Instead, virtually all of this money HAS BEEN returned and is not outstanding today.

Athanasius is right. We seriously need some clarification here. If we're just constantly recycling the same $1 trillion, that's a far cry from the $16t we've been told about. Given that, the following questions need to be answer:

1) What are these institutions doing with the money they'be been lent? I've always wondered what the point of borrowing money for just a day or a few days was.
2) If the money was returned, then what does this cost the taxpayer?

As Ron's supporters, we all need to be equipped to defend his views. These questions will come up again and we need to be ready.

NeoconTea
10-26-2011, 07:52 AM
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-25/markets/29978854_1_debt-ceiling-full-report-money

BI is mainstream and has the number.

tremendoustie
10-26-2011, 07:54 AM
Yep, looks like just over 1.1 trillion outstanding per year (at close to 0% interest).

Still outrageous (~$3500 for every man, woman, and child in the country), but we need to get our numbers straight.

I'd thank this guy for pointing this out, and say that you still oppose the Fed for numerous reasons, including moral ones, but he's absolutely right that the facts need to be reported correctly.

tremendoustie
10-26-2011, 08:05 AM
The bailouts, stimulus, etc, add up to 11 trillion committed (35K for every person in the US), with 3 trillion spent (10K per person) http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/

roversaurus
10-26-2011, 08:15 AM
To me the best response is,
If the Fed has nothing to hide and they have been audit hundreds of times ... why do they oppose being audited by Ron Paul's bill?

If they have already been fully audited, surely they can't oppose another audit? I wonder why they oppose it????

tremendoustie
10-26-2011, 08:17 AM
To me the best response is,
If the Fed has nothing to hide and they have been audit hundreds of times ... why do they oppose being audited by Ron Paul's bill?

If they have already been fully audited, surely they can't oppose another audit? I wonder why they oppose it????

Good angle, and good point.

They certainly have tons to hide -- this guy is 100% wrong on their transparency. But, I think this guy may be right on the 16T.

freejack
10-26-2011, 08:21 AM
The bailouts and stimulus were atrocities but the money mentioned in the GAO report have been paid back. If that's the case, then what's the problem here? I would still like to know how borrowing billions of dollars for a few days can help an institution. If I owed my credit card company $10,000 and I borrowed $10k from you and then returned it the next day, I'm still stuck with my $10k debt. Please help me clear this up.

Kludge
10-26-2011, 08:26 AM
The bailouts and stimulus were atrocities but the money mentioned in the GAO report have been paid back. If that's the case, then what's the problem here? I would still like to know how borrowing billions of dollars for a few days can help an institution. If I owed my credit card company $10,000 and I borrowed $10k from you and then returned it the next day, I'm still stuck with my $10k debt. Please help me clear this up.
Banks need these overnight (or other short-term) loans to meet regulators' capital requirements made to protect against bank runs. Banks need a certain amount of safe, liquid assets (like cash) to meet those requirements, which overnight loans satisfy.

freejack
10-26-2011, 08:33 AM
Banks need these overnight (or other short-term) loans to meet regulators' capital requirements made to protect against bank runs. Banks need a certain amount of safe, liquid assets (like cash) to meet those requirements, which overnight loans satisfy.

Thanks for the explanation. So aside from the roughly $1T that was printed which is currently being circulated, should we be concerned with anything else from the GAO audit?

Elwar
10-26-2011, 08:46 AM
Ron Paul's proposed legislation (HR 459): Notice the things that are excluded from audit.

Proposed Title 31 section 714:(a) In this section, "agency" means the Financial Institutions Examination Council, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (in this section referred to as the "Board"), Federal reserve banks, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, and the Office of Thrift Supervision.
(b) Under regulations of the Comptroller General, the Comptroller General shall audit an agency, but may carry out an onsite examination of an open insured bank or bank holding company only if the appropriate agency has consented in writing. Audits of the Board and Federal reserve banks may not include
(1) transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or nonprivate international financing organization;
(2) deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;
(3) transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or
(4) a part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)-(3) of this subsection.