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View Full Version : Panhandling is not a crime you mutton-headed ^%$#@'s!




Brooklyn Red Leg
10-25-2011, 12:28 PM
Tampa, Florida -- The days of panhandling on Tampa's streets are numbered.The Tampa city council approved a six-day ban on panhandling by a vote of 4-to-1. Mayor Bob Buckhorn has already said that he will sign off on the legislation.
The law is expected to go into effect on November 1. After that, Sunday will be the only day panhandling is legal. That's the only day charity drives will be allowed as well.
Newspaper vendors will be able to work the medians every day.


TAMPA, FLORIDA -- The days of panhandling in Tampa appear to be about over. On Thursday morning, city council is expected to make a final vote on a ban.
But some panhandlers think they may have found a way around it.
Lynn Prince is one of those who doesn't plan to disappear.
He tells 10 News he knew a panhandling ban might be coming, so last month he bought a peddler's permit from Hillsborough County, allowing him to sell bottled water.
In recent weeks, Prince says that's become a growing trend.
"They're kind of following exactly what I started. I'm kind of like the godfather of bottled water in the county," he said.
For $30 per year, the permit basically turns a panhandler into a water salesman. They buy a 24-pack for about $4, then sell each bottle to drivers for a dollar each.
Charlotte Luke with the Hillsborough County Tax Collector's Office, says they haven't noticed a big increase in peddler's permits, but as long as someone comes in with a name, address, and what's being sold, they get a permit.
"If 50 people come in and say 'I'm selling water on the corner, I need a retail sales license,' we're going to issue you a license," Luke said.
But Tampa police confirm to 10 News that will no longer be allowed once the new ordinance is passed. Officers say the ban will prevent all sales from intersections, even if you have a permit.
It's a big setback for people like Prince, who thought they found a way to stick around.
"If the cops don't like me here, and they give me a hard time, and they try to create a situation, I can just go somewhere else," Prince said.
Police do point out, however, that the ban is only expected to cover six days a week.
Bottled water -- much like newspaper sales -- would still be allowed on Sundays, outside of the city's 10 busiest intersections

This REALLY pisses me off. I haven't panhandled (since I'm now homeless) but I had considered selling water/gatorade to make ends meet (since my job only averages about 10 hours a week). I have basically had it with the City Council of Tampa. I have nothing to lose at this point and I plan on being out on November the 1st protesting this in Downtown Tampa at the Courthouse (or maybe nearby just to piss off the cops). This is an egregious breech of the Florida State Constitution (which guarantees the Right of Freedom of Speech and Peaceful Assembly) as well as the 9th and 10th Amendment to the US Constitution. I'm going to be contacting the ACLU in Tampa to make sure I have a number for a lawyer lined up. I also plan on talking to the Hillsborough County Sheriff David Gee and asking him point-blank if he is going to authorize his deputies to enforce this.

If I end up arrested (which might or might not happen), I'll just consider it a vacation from freezing my ass off on the street at night and guaranteed 3-hots & a cot. Some people will naturally question why I am going to do this. Its because no one, especially not some group of narcissistic sociopathic assholes are going to tell me where and when I can excercise my Freedom of Speech. Hopefully I will end up on YouTube, though not under the heading 'Tampa cops beat fat homeless man to a pulp'. We all have our limits. The City Council just made me reach mine.

jkr
10-25-2011, 12:51 PM
may GOD protect you from your neighbors

...the war on poverty continues...

dannno
10-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Wow, what does God do to people who hate poor people?

jkr
10-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Wow, what does God do to people who hate poor people?

I hear HE REALLY does not like it- at all

ZanZibar
10-25-2011, 01:00 PM
BRL, Why are you homeless? I'm curious?

pcosmar
10-25-2011, 01:21 PM
There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.
Deuteronomy 15:11

ItsTime
10-25-2011, 01:22 PM
simple solution, don't use a pan.

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-26-2011, 09:06 AM
BRL, Why are you homeless? I'm curious?

Bad luck I suppose is the easiest answer. Eventhough I am working, its not enough to keep up with bills. My Mom passed away in May and my bitch sister walked off with all her assets (which includes a 250k house on 2.25 acres in Grayson, GA) and has refused to produce the will or the pre-existing Trust. I have to contact a frikkin lawyer now just to get what I feel is my fair share of what is left of our parent's estate. I was living with my best friend, but his (almost) ex-wife is a complete and total bitch and threw me out (left before she could call the cops and claim 'whatever'). None of my other friends live in the area or can be relied upon (sad to say). I've just had a spate of really bad luck lately (like losing the keys to my storage space where my military-grade sleeping bag is located, losing my cellphone etc).

ZanZibar
10-26-2011, 09:13 AM
What kind of work do you do?

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-26-2011, 09:21 AM
What kind of work do you do?

Private Security. At the moment, its for the Tampa Bay Bucaneers and USF Bull's games.

bluesc
10-26-2011, 09:27 AM
Do I see a restoration of my hope in humanity coming?

pcosmar
10-26-2011, 09:32 AM
It's the War on Charity.

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-26-2011, 09:37 AM
It's the War on Charity.

Essentially. Its just one more way they can shut down freedom of speech. I was told that if two people are protesting, they now have to be 100 feet apart or they are considered a mob. This kind of shit really is beyond the pale in my opinion.

erowe1
10-26-2011, 09:41 AM
I'm sure there are still plenty of ways for people in Tampa who want to give their money to the poor to do so without having pan handlers on their city streets.

vita3
10-26-2011, 09:42 AM
The war machine is really HQ'd out of the Tampa area, so I could see why they would clamp down on public protest harsher than other areas.

ZanZibar
10-26-2011, 10:17 AM
Private Security. At the moment, its for the Tampa Bay Bucaneers and USF Bull's games.There are a lot of clubs and bars in Tampa. Have you looked into bouncing at all, especially in Ybor City? Do you have a car?

oyarde
10-26-2011, 10:39 AM
The war machine is really HQ'd out of the Tampa area, so I could see why they would clamp down on public protest harsher than other areas. Yes.

dannno
10-26-2011, 11:07 AM
I'm sure there are still plenty of ways for people in Tampa who want to give their money to the poor to do so without having pan handlers on their city streets.

Irrelevant.

erowe1
10-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Irrelevant.

Weren't you implying earlier that anti-pan handling laws somehow reflect hate for the poor?

pcosmar
10-26-2011, 11:27 AM
Weren't you implying earlier that anti-pan handling laws somehow reflect hate for the poor?

He was responding to this statement,

I'm sure there are still plenty of ways for people in Tampa who want to give their money to the poor to do so without having pan handlers on their city streets.

That is irrelevant.
A human being still has a right to ask for assistance. Just as others have the right to decline.
This law would make it illegal to ask.

These laws are blatantly immoral on their face.

erowe1
10-26-2011, 11:30 AM
He was responding to this statement,


That is irrelevant.
A human being still has a right to ask for assistance. Just as others have the right to decline.
This law would make it illegal to ask.

These laws are blatantly immoral on their face.

It's not irrelevant. And the reason it's not is because, like I said, he was implying that supporting these laws is hating the poor. But if there are other ways of helping the poor, that's not the case.

I see nothing immoral about them. Sure people have the right to do those things, on their own property. I don't let people panhandle on my personal property either.

dannno
10-26-2011, 11:32 AM
It's not irrelevant. And the reason it's not is because, like I said, he was implying that supporting these laws is hating the poor. But if there are other ways of helping the poor, that's not the case.

I see nothing immoral about them. Sure people have the right to do those things, on their own property. I don't let people panhandle on my personal property either.

What does this have to do with private property :confused:

I guess you are ok with restricting Jesus manger scenes to be displayed on public property because they don't restrict Christmas trees so we have other ways of celebrating the birth of Christ :rolleyes:

oyarde
10-26-2011, 11:32 AM
It's not irrelevant. And the reason it's not is because, like I said, he was implying that supporting these laws is hating the poor. But if there are other ways of helping the poor, that's not the case.

I see nothing immoral about them. Sure people have the right to do those things, on their own property. I don't let people panhandle on my personal property either. What if they offered you 7% :)

erowe1
10-26-2011, 11:34 AM
What if they offered you 7% :)

Yeah, they could probably sweeten the deal.

Icymudpuppy
10-26-2011, 11:36 AM
I don't know about Tampa, but around here, most panhandlers really aren't homeless, poor, or disabled as they claim, in which case they really should be arrested for fraud, false advertising, or something similar.

oyarde
10-26-2011, 11:37 AM
Yeah, they could probably sweeten the deal. Always trying to be a positive influence :) . I had a Landlord once , that would have crapped his pants if I allowed this , It would have been worth it just to see the look on his face :)

oyarde
10-26-2011, 11:42 AM
I don't know about Tampa, but around here, most panhandlers really aren't homeless, poor, or disabled as they claim, in which case they really should be arrested for fraud, false advertising, or something similar. I know when I was in Seattle alot in the 80's , that was the case . There was this one Nam vet , I would see down at the wharf at the fish market that I would give a couple of bucks to . He would just use it on wine in between checks , had no legs , was not homeless, did not want to try and find employment and was honest about it . I was OK with that . If he had won the lottery or something , I am sure he would have bought me a case of beer :). I used to buy crab legs down there.

dannno
10-26-2011, 11:43 AM
I don't know about Tampa, but around here, most panhandlers really aren't homeless, poor, or disabled as they claim, in which case they really should be arrested for fraud, false advertising, or something similar.

So you are against the first amendment?

Maybe they are having trouble with bills and are trying to avoid getting kicked out onto the streets.

Icymudpuppy
10-26-2011, 11:47 AM
So you are against the first amendment?

Maybe they are having trouble with bills and are trying to avoid getting kicked out onto the streets.

The courts have consistently affirmed that the 1st amendment protects political speech, but does not protect businesses or individuals from legal action relating to fraud, false advertising, libel, slander, and other cases of disinformation regarding financial transactions.

pcosmar
10-26-2011, 11:49 AM
It does not matter why someone "panhandles". And there can be many reasons why, from poor choices to bad luck and circumstance.

I've been there. And have given back at other times.
It is charity.


1.
generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless: to devote one's life to charity.
2.
something given to a person or persons in need; alms:
She asked for work, not charity.
3.
a charitable act or work.
4.
a charitable fund, foundation, or institution:
He left his estate to a charity.
5.
benevolent feeling, especially toward those in need or in disfavor:
She looked so poor that we fed her out of charity.


Synonyms 5. kindliness, consideration, humanity, benignity, sympathy.
Antonyms 5. malevolence.

oyarde
10-26-2011, 11:52 AM
It does not matter why someone "panhandles". And there can be many reasons why, from poor choices to bad luck and circumstance.

I've been there. And have given back at other times.
It is charity. That is correct , nothing wrong with private charity , govt wants to shut it down , take your money and make the contributions to govt employees and buildings and then the few remaining cents to where they choose.

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-27-2011, 09:31 AM
I don't know about Tampa, but around here, most panhandlers really aren't homeless, poor, or disabled as they claim, in which case they really should be arrested for fraud, false advertising, or something similar.

Problem is that this law also affects people who want to sell bottled water/gatorade. What the fuck is wrong with people making money by being entrepreneurs? Had this fuckhead of a law not gone into effect, I was planning on doing that as its at least SOME money that could go into my pocket to help me with things like getting a 31-day Bus Pass as well as a 30-day YMCA membership so I don't smell so gnarly all the time (as finding areas to shower are proving difficult at the moment).

And yes, there may be shitheads who aren't homeless that are using it to make money. That's NOT me. This is criminalizing MY speech and the fact that people still have this goddamn retarded notion that "Punish the Group for the Sins of One" mentality really bothers me.

As it is, shitheads in Tampa voted to oust the Catholic Diocese from hosting a Tent City on their own property to try and help people like me have at least modest shelter. Hillsborough County is in posession of a number of apartment complexes completely shutdown (probably on suspicion of a meth lab) just sitting there rotting. Nothing fucks people worse than government.

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-27-2011, 09:35 AM
There are a lot of clubs and bars in Tampa. Have you looked into bouncing at all, especially in Ybor City? Do you have a car?

I tried before at all the clubs (Mons Venus etc). However, at the moment I'm doubly fucked because I don't have a cellphone (waiting for a replacement). Also, I had to sell my car about 6 months ago to be able to make rent etc. Damned near every place I apply now says they regret they can't hire me because I have to use public transportation. However, a cute young lady on the bus earlier gave me the number to the Hard Rock in Tampa and suggested I call them and see about a security job there. Good thing is that there is a bus stop right outside the Casino. Of course, I'm not even remotely AmerInd at all, so I may come up another goose egg.

ZanZibar
10-27-2011, 09:55 AM
I tried before at all the clubs (Mons Venus etc). However, at the moment I'm doubly fucked because I don't have a cellphone (waiting for a replacement). Also, I had to sell my car about 6 months ago to be able to make rent etc. Damned near every place I apply now says they regret they can't hire me because I have to use public transportation. However, a cute young lady on the bus earlier gave me the number to the Hard Rock in Tampa and suggested I call them and see about a security job there. Good thing is that there is a bus stop right outside the Casino. Of course, I'm not even remotely AmerInd at all, so I may come up another goose egg.Have you tried with a private security firm?

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-27-2011, 10:09 AM
Have you tried with a private security firm?

I work for one now. But yes, and they all say 'Must have a valid driver's license and car in good working order'. That is if they don't have 'Must have at least 1-2 years of experience', which I'm only at 5 months experience now. Also my license expired a month and a half ago and now I'm behind the 8-ball on that too. The only hope now is that there is a Republican State Assemblyman from Crestview who has introduced a bill to remove all the bullshit needed for renewing (Copy of Original Birth Certificate, Social Security Card and 2 bills to prove residence).