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Jtorsella
10-24-2011, 07:23 PM
--

Sola_Fide
10-24-2011, 07:31 PM
She's right. There is full employment in socialism...:wink: If the State tells 100% of the people to dig ditches and then refill them, they are employed.

FrankRep
10-24-2011, 07:33 PM
http://boldcolors.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/occupy_Wall_Street_idiocy.jpg



A growing number of unions and socialist groups are joining “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrations in New York and “solidarity” protests nationwide.


Unions, Socialists Join Forces to "Occupy Wall Street" (http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9214-unions-socialists-join-forces-to-occupy-wall-street)


Alex Newman | The New American (http://thenewamerican.com/)
30 September 2011

Jeremy
10-24-2011, 07:36 PM
He should give them a bit more of a chance to talk.

edit: and not insult them

Jtorsella
10-24-2011, 07:37 PM
He should give them a bit more of a chance to talk.

edit: and not insult them
So that they can completely discredit themselves even more? I agree.

Jeremy
10-24-2011, 07:39 PM
So that they can completely discredit themselves even more? I agree.

And talking over them like that with "reeeeeeeaaaaallyyyy" is usually what people do when they don't have anything logical to say. I wanted to hear a debate! lol

FrankRep
10-24-2011, 07:47 PM
And talking over them like that with "reeeeeeeaaaaallyyyy" is usually what people do when they don't have anything logical to say. I wanted to hear a debate! lol
Socialist: "The workers in North Korea get paid a decent wage."

That Socialist is clueless.


Starving North Koreans forced to survive on diet of grass and tree bark
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/starving-north-koreans-forced-survive-diet-grass-and-tree-bark-2010-07-14

Famine-Struck North Koreans 'eating children'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/1432366/Famine-struck-N-Koreans-eating-children.html

Starved North Koreans eating grass to survive
http://articles.cnn.com/2002-06-20/world/nkorea.famine_1_gerald-bourke-food-aid-food-pipeline?_s=PM:asiapcf

WarNoMore
10-24-2011, 07:53 PM
Heh, the old guy jumping in at the end Reminds me of what happened when Alex Jones went down to the RNC and confronted some communists. Seems the old guys are there to be the spokesmen/guards of the useful idiots they get to hold signs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NDMpZC_WPc

I remember there was more, the parts that are missing that I remember had one of the old guys come up and call Jones "Lush Rimjob".

specsaregood
10-24-2011, 07:55 PM
He should give them a bit more of a chance to talk.
edit: and not insult them

And talking over them like that with "reeeeeeeaaaaallyyyy" is usually what people do when they don't have anything logical to say. I wanted to hear a debate! lol

yup, nowhere near as good or effective as how Schiff did it.

CaptainAmerica
10-24-2011, 07:57 PM
the truth ..they can't handle the truth.

CaptainAmerica
10-24-2011, 08:00 PM
yup, nowhere near as good or effective as how Schiff did it. It was good enough, its pretty pathetic that those people don't have a clue about history or political science.

Jeremy
10-24-2011, 08:00 PM
Heh, the old guy jumping in at the end Reminds me of what happened when Alex Jones went down to the RNC and confronted some communists. Seems the old guys are there to be the spokesmen/guards of the useful idiots they get to hold signs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NDMpZC_WPc

I remember there was more, the parts that are missing that I remember had one of the old guys come up and call Jones "Lush Rimjob".

He needs a different mic there.

juleswin
10-24-2011, 08:04 PM
I want a free market capitalism and not just capitalism like the guy in the video. Also you cannot compare N and S Korea because both countries are dealing with totally different circumstances. North Korea for one is run by a dictator and the society have been smacked with many sanctions by the world community. Not saying North Korea would end up being a more prosperous country than South but you have to put into account the situations facing each country that are not related to their economic system.

Hence there is more than 1 variable affecting the economies of each country

Cutlerzzz
10-24-2011, 09:27 PM
I want a free market capitalism and not just capitalism like the guy in the video. Also you cannot compare N and S Korea because both countries are dealing with totally different circumstances. North Korea for one is run by a dictator and the society have been smacked with many sanctions by the world community. Not saying North Korea would end up being a more prosperous country than South but you have to put into account the situations facing each country that are not related to their economic system.

Hence there is more than 1 variable affecting the economies of each countryNorth Korea started out wealthier than South Korea. They have simply dissipated that wealth over the years.

It does not matter whether a socialist country is run by a dictator or not. It will inherently fail, either way.

juleswin
10-24-2011, 09:33 PM
North Korea started out wealthier than South Korea. They have simply dissipated that wealth over the years.

It does not matter whether a socialist country is run by a dictator or not. It will inherently fail, either way.

And the sanctions and the isolation from the rest of the world had nothing to do with their economic situation. I get it now

jkob
10-24-2011, 09:46 PM
And the sanctions and the isolation from the rest of the world had nothing to do with their economic situation. I get it now

Doesn't help that they spend over a quarter of their GDP on their military

Sentient Void
10-24-2011, 09:59 PM
Doesn't help that they spend over a quarter of their GDP on their military

South Korea, while having started off less wealthy than North Korea - now has a GDP that is literally *30 times* that of North Korea. South Korea spends as much on it's military as the entire GDP of N. Korea. In N. Korea, people are starving in the streets. people are resorting to cannibalism. They are technologically backwards.

But hey - they all get a 'fair wage'! They probably have 'full employment', too (perhaps apart from those who are dying)!

Yeah - pure socialism vs a mainly capitalist (though clearly not pure capitalist) economy.

Let's not even try to go over the legacy left by socialism by Maoism, Stalinism, Pol Potism, etc. That is, a legacy built atop scores, upon scores, upon scores, upon scores, upon scores of tens of millions of dead bodies.

PaulConventionWV
10-24-2011, 10:05 PM
So does anyone still think we should join these fools and protest alongside them? Has anyone ever thought that?

Does anyone think this was ever supposed to be about free market capitalism and less government anymore?

Cutlerzzz
10-24-2011, 10:15 PM
And the sanctions and the isolation from the rest of the world had nothing to do with their economic situation. I get it nowIf the rest of the world was not allowing markets to set most prices, North Korea would be doing even worse than they are now.

The average North Korean makes $1,900 a year. The average South Korean makes $32,000 a year.

Cutlerzzz
10-24-2011, 10:16 PM
South Korea, while having started off less wealthy than North Korea - now has a GDP that is literally *30 times* that of North Korea. South Korea spends as much on it's military as the entire GDP of N. Korea. In N. Korea, people are starving in the streets. people are resorting to cannibalism. They are technologically backwards.

But hey - they all get a 'fair wage'! They probably have 'full employment', too (perhaps apart from those who are dying)!

Yeah - pure socialism vs a mainly capitalist (though clearly not pure capitalist) economy.

Let's not even try to go over the legacy left by socialism by Maoism, Stalinism, Pol Potism, etc. That is, a legacy built atop scores, upon scores, upon scores, upon scores, upon scores of tens of millions of dead bodies.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sentient Void again

Cutlerzzz
10-24-2011, 10:20 PM
So does anyone still think we should join these fools and protest alongside them? Has anyone ever thought that?

Does anyone think this was ever supposed to be about free market capitalism and less government anymore?

I personally would not bother, as I dislike crowds and prefer one on one conversations. However, trying will not hurt anyone. OWS is a group of politically active people that frequently realizes that something is wrong with the way society is run right now. If Ron Paul supporters want to go down there and try to convert a few people, I don't see how it could hurt. They might convert a few people, they might not, and they might manage to influence some without converting them. Who knows, but in a group that large, there are bound to be some that we can find common ground with.

The same is true of the Tea Party.

Czolgosz
10-24-2011, 10:36 PM
He could be a good spokesperson against socialism but his attitude is crap, he closes minds.

Lothario
10-24-2011, 10:41 PM
Unfortunately mission failed big time for this dude. These people won't give a second's thought to what he said. Facts and assertions (he's a murderer, they're cannibals) must be proved, and can therefore be denied at an event like this where proof is unavailable. Logic on the other hand is self evident. Talking about the lack of a pricing mechanism, or the incentive issue, or the morality of self ownership, etc. could have potentially sparked curiosity.

heavenlyboy34
10-24-2011, 11:32 PM
So does anyone still think we should join these fools and protest alongside them? Has anyone ever thought that?

Does anyone think this was ever supposed to be about free market capitalism and less government anymore?
I haven't seen anyone here advocate that. Plenty have advocated infiltrating, though-just like the Tea Party. IMO, infiltration is not a bad idea. It seems to have worked for the neocons, teaocons, etc.

emazur
10-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Socialist: "The workers in North Korea get paid a decent wage." That Socialist is clueless.

Yep. North Korea also intentionally introduced a form of hyperinflation in 2009 that decimated people who saved some of this "decent wage" that they used to obtain food:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/01/AR2009120101841.html


The currency move appeared to be part of a continuing government crackdown on private markets, which have become an essential part of the food-supply system in the chronically hungry North.

...

The revaluation replaces 1,000-won notes with 10-won notes but strictly limits the amount of old currency that can be exchanged, news reports said.

According to two Web-based groups with sources in the North, that limit was set Monday at 100,000 won, which at current black-market rates amounts to $40. All North Korean currency that individuals possess in excess of that amount becomes worthless under the revaluation.

Amid widespread protests, the limit was raised to 150,000 won in cash and 300,000 won in bank savings, according to DailyNK, an online news organization that has informants in the North.

"I worked like a dog for two months for the winter, but the money became useless paper overnight," a resident of Sinuiju, a city that borders China, was quoted as saying on the Web site of Good Friends, a South Korea-based aid organization with informants in the North.

dannno
10-25-2011, 02:11 AM
The socialist lady said that we shouldn't have bailed out the banks, we should have bailed out the people instead. Ron Paul says that we shouldn't have bailed out the banks and big corporations, and that we would have been better off bailing out the people instead. Hmmmmm.

I actually didn't really agree with this guy. He seemed to imply that what we have here is capitalism and it is perfectly ok, he did not acknowledge the man's complaint that rich people are using their money [via lobbyists] to profit off of the people. That is corporatism, this guy didn't acknowledge it.

Obviously the lady was really ignorant about North Korea and a lot of other things, but I think the interviewer was a bit ignorant as well unfortunately. And he was kinda rude.

Eric21ND
10-25-2011, 02:30 AM
yup, nowhere near as good or effective as how Schiff did it.
This guy and Schiff would make a great tag team to educate these people. This guy should stick to speaking about his personal experience and allow Schiff to make the other arguments.

wannaberocker
10-25-2011, 09:14 AM
Why is it that every socialism loving leftist points to North Korea as awesome lol? I heard similar arguments from leftist doing an interview of Economist Walter Block Lol. Block pointed to North korea as the example of how socialism / communism dosnt work and the leftist went "oh yeah, well from what i hear North Korea is doing pretty well" and Professor Block just looked stunned lol. So what is it, is north korea the new posterchild for how awesome socialism is?

jtstellar
10-25-2011, 11:08 AM
im fuking hating liberals more and more

joekel
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1 hour ago (11:40 AM)
I know that you and that kook paul are both idiots.
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joekel: I know that you and that kook paul are both
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/joekel/ron-paul-student-loans_n_1027276_114798034.html
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spyl
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14 minutes ago (12:50 PM)
i know i can survive without government assistance*. LOL.
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spyl: i know i can survive without government assistance. LOL.
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spyl
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4 minutes ago (12:59 PM)
actually what's offensive is thinking 'kook' offends me, because you assume i have some type of personalit*y fetish akin to that between you and the dems. strictly speaking, i lean indpdenden*t. i could even vote for obama over the next up republican candidate, depending on who it is, if he weren't such a clown on foreign policy like he is. but you c*m moppers all sucked it up good, so i ain't voting for him. pls don't assume calling paul names is offensive because it makes your assumption*s of politics being the upgraded american idol(fetis*h) very apparent, and therefore makes the way you connect to politics transparen*t, and that's unsightly.

was this a good response?

Zatch
10-25-2011, 11:16 AM
I think the guy with the orange hair is the same guy from this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql8rb-0OP3w

Justinjj1
10-25-2011, 11:19 AM
He could be a good spokesperson against socialism but his attitude is crap, he closes minds.

not to mention that he doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism.

jtstellar
10-25-2011, 11:55 AM
He could be a good spokesperson against socialism but his attitude is crap, he closes minds.

i doubt. sometimes yelling in somebody's face is the way to punch through. tactics are different against neo-cons than liberals without a job and hurting. yelling at liberals is the way to punch through. force works on spineless people, but doesn't work against neo-cons. don't mix apples and oraniges! --cain.

pcosmar
10-25-2011, 12:02 PM
not to mention that he doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism.

What difference would that be?
There has NEVER been a Communist country,, ever.
Socialism is as close as it gets,, Either democratic socialism (all of Europe and north America) or socialist dictatorships.
(Cuba, USSR, N Korea etc) None are communist.
The US has been a socialist country since the 1900s.

Communism may be the name given, The philosophy or "Ideal",, But it has never existed.

Brian4Liberty
10-25-2011, 12:27 PM
The socialist lady said that we shouldn't have bailed out the banks, we should have bailed out the people instead. Ron Paul says that we shouldn't have bailed out the banks and big corporations, and that we would have been better off bailing out the people instead. Hmmmmm.


Of course that's a lesser of two evils choice. It's also the same point that the blonde haired guy was making when debating Adam Kokesh (in another thread). He wanted the Federal Reserve to print money and deposit it directly into accounts for each person. So if given the choice of giving free money to Wall St banks, (where it doesn't stimulate the economy), or putting it into the hands of people who will spend it, the choice is obvious. But the true answer is that the government shouldn't be handing out free money to anyone. This is an analogous dilemma to the tax issue. Give tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy (that shelter their assets via incorporation), or give tax breaks to everyone. Despite all of the debating that is done, in the end, the choice will be made for us by the corporatists, and it will benefit them, not the people, not the economy as a whole.


I think the guy with the orange hair is the same guy from this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql8rb-0OP3w

Yeah, you may be right.

FrankRep
10-25-2011, 12:32 PM
Wow. That was scary! What a dork.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ql8rb-0OP3w

pcosmar
10-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Wow. That was scary! What a dork.



I agree. He is an idiot. And unfortunately, the education system of this country has produced many more like him.

I have the same reaction to him that I have for McCain supporters though.
Or to listening to people defend Cain or Romney.

Just as fucking clueless.

Todd
10-25-2011, 01:17 PM
Wow. That was scary! What a dork.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ql8rb-0OP3w


Ok. This guy Terrorwarrior5000 is a parody on the Neoncons right?. I've seen this guys videos for years and thought that, but now after seeing this...if this is true and he really is the guy spouting that crap, then this represents a new level of ignornace

Zatch
10-25-2011, 05:18 PM
Ok. This guy Terrorwarrior5000 is a parody on the Neoncons right?. I've seen this guys videos for years and thought that, but now after seeing this...if this is true and he really is the guy spouting that crap, then this represents a new level of ignornace

I don't think that's actually terrorwarrior. TerrorWarrior probably got the socialist rant video from someone else's youtube channel.

osan
10-25-2011, 05:39 PM
And the sanctions and the isolation from the rest of the world had nothing to do with their economic situation. I get it now

Last I checked, China and NK had a fairly friendly arrangement as neighbors. Why would China not supply NK with goods, especially of the latter has cash?

libertybrewcity
10-25-2011, 06:15 PM
I think the guy with the orange hair is the same guy from this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql8rb-0OP3w

lol, the fruity marxist kid is terrorwarrior? who would of thought...

Todd
10-27-2011, 05:42 AM
lol, the fruity marxist kid is terrorwarrior? who would of thought...

Problem is that on TerrorWarriors you tube channel, it's all Neocon rants and fighting terrorism. Nothing there about Marxism or socialism. It's so over the top it has to be tounge in cheek. Doesn't make sense.

Mattsa
10-27-2011, 08:39 AM
http://boldcolors.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/occupy_Wall_Street_idiocy.jpg



A growing number of unions and socialist groups are joining “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrations in New York and “solidarity” protests nationwide.


Unions, Socialists Join Forces to "Occupy Wall Street" (http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9214-unions-socialists-join-forces-to-occupy-wall-street)


Alex Newman | The New American (http://thenewamerican.com/)
30 September 2011

Love the poster

"A job is a right"

Massive DOH!!!!