View Full Version : Controversy with Cain in Iowa over abortion remarks-up on Fox News shortly
Carole
10-21-2011, 12:35 PM
Here we go.! :D
Controversy with Cain in Iowa over abortion remarks-up on Fox News shortly.
More to come when available
sailingaway
10-21-2011, 12:36 PM
And they are only talking about Piers Morgan, at this point. I don't think they even know about the Stossel clip which was about the same.
Carole
10-21-2011, 12:42 PM
Okay. I missed the first part. Just heard them say a talk show host interpreted Cain's remarks as pro choice. (I thought they meant Iowa talk show host-oops!) Maybe the controversy is still embryonic. :D Too soon to abort?
In any case, people in Iowa must watch Piers Morgan. :D
Santorum is ripping him on this and on 9-9-9 a bit.
Thanks Rick. :D
lucent
10-21-2011, 01:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN5PoW7_kdA
Hey, I was joking. You didn't take me serious did you? People need a sense of humor.
low preference guy
10-21-2011, 01:37 PM
America needs to get a sense of humor!
My candidacy is a joke!
BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHA
Paulatized
10-21-2011, 01:46 PM
Well, I said what I said because the answer that I gave was not for the question that was ask, you see.
Birdlady
10-21-2011, 01:52 PM
Well, I said what I said because the answer that I gave was not for the question that was ask, you see.
Exactly. Makes total sense!
I'm pro-life. 100%. No exceptions. All I'm saying, is simply, that that question was not focusing on the right problem! You see? Look at the facts. What do they show? OK! That's what I've been trying to tell you! You first have to find the problem, assemble the right group of people who know how to handle the problem, and then go out and fix the problem. We have to protect all stages of life, because it's our duty first-and-foremost. We can't pick who's worthy of living and, quite simply, we don't get anywhere by asking the wrong questions. Am I right? So I would say to those people, that they don't know what they're talking about. They are welcome to read our analysis. Until then, the only people who should be asking the questions and making those decisions, based on those questions, are the women and the families. That's their choice. Not some politician....even a woman politician. It's not our place to decide for them especially when we don't have all the facts. Are we just going to throw out the constitution and the bill of rights? Of course not. That's why we must protect the life of the unborn. So, I'm simply saying: abortion under no circumstances. And that's why stand by what I originally said to the gentleman. Because, to be quite honest, I don't care if he's a homosexual. You don't see me bashing him. It's simply a matter of choice. No abortions. Period. Because, if you consider the all facts and weigh the pros and cons, it's up to the women and families. It's their choice. Not the politicians'. That's my position. Clear as day.
He's absolutely right.
280Z28
10-21-2011, 03:40 PM
He's absolutely right.
It's easy to see that Cain believes the following:
Pro-Life means you would not support an abortion.
Pro-Choice means you might consider an abortion.
However, to the majority of Americans,
Pro-Life means you would take active steps to prevent people from getting abortions.
Pro-Choice means you believe that people can choose for themselves whether an abortion is acceptable.
Cain's political position is very obviously pro-choice, with a personal decision to not take that path for himself or his family.
Just because someone thinks marijuana should be legalized doesn't mean they want to use it. Same thing here - Cain is pro-choice but doesn't want to have an abortion himself/his family.
GeorgiaAvenger
10-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Can't wait for Rick to show up in the debate and smack Cain with this
TonySutton
10-21-2011, 04:34 PM
He's absolutely right.
I get dizzy when I read that.
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 04:35 PM
He's absolutely right.
What?
HarryBrowneLives
10-21-2011, 04:39 PM
He's absolutely right.
Which position is he right about??? The one where he's "100% Pro life" or the one "Where he doesn't want the politicians involved and the women and families alone should be making the decisions".?
Signed,
Confused
lucent
10-21-2011, 04:40 PM
It's easy to see that Cain believes the following:
Pro-Life means you would not support an abortion.
Pro-Choice means you might consider an abortion.
However, to the majority of Americans,
Pro-Life means you would take active steps to prevent people from getting abortions.
Pro-Choice means you believe that people can choose for themselves whether an abortion is acceptable.
Cain's political position is very obviously pro-choice, with a personal decision to not take that path for himself or his family.
Just because someone thinks marijuana should be legalized doesn't mean they want to use it. Same thing here - Cain is pro-choice but doesn't want to have an abortion himself/his family.
You should watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WELkanHrSqw
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 04:40 PM
Abortions shouldn't be allowed:
We have to protect all stages of life, because it's our duty first-and-foremost. We can't pick who's worthy of living and, quite simply, we don't get anywhere by asking the wrong questions.
Abortions should be up to women and their families:
Until then, the only people who should be asking the questions and making those decisions, based on those questions, are the women and the families. That's their choice. Not some politician....even a woman politician.
Abortion not allowed:
That's why we must protect the life of the unborn. So, I'm simply saying: abortion under no circumstances.
Abortion should be up to women and their families:
It's simply a matter of choice.
Abortion not allowed:
No abortions. Period.
Abortion should be up to women and their families:
Because, if you consider the all facts and weigh the pros and cons, it's up to the women and families. It's their choice. Not the politicians'.
My head just exploded:
That's my position. Clear as day.
I probably should have mentioned that I just pulled that Herman Cain quote entirely out of my ass. Reading it back, it sounds exactly like him though, so I'm not surprised people bought it. My bad :D
HarryBrowneLives
10-21-2011, 04:42 PM
It's easy to see that Cain believes the following:
Pro-Life means you would not support an abortion.
Pro-Choice means you might consider an abortion.
However, to the majority of Americans,
Pro-Life means you would take active steps to prevent people from getting abortions.
Pro-Choice means you believe that people can choose for themselves whether an abortion is acceptable.
Cain's political position is very obviously pro-choice, with a personal decision to not take that path for himself or his family.
Just because someone thinks marijuana should be legalized doesn't mean they want to use it. Same thing here - Cain is pro-choice but doesn't want to have an abortion himself/his family.
Like just about everything else including 9-9-9 (or 9-0-9 this week) I don't think he really F%$king knows other than the fact he wants to be President. He's straddled the fence so much on so many things he's gonna hurt his testicles soon and fall off.
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 04:42 PM
I probably should have mentioned that I just pulled that Herman Cain quote entirely out of my ass. Reading it back, it sounds exactly like him though, so I'm not surprised people bought it. My bad :D
Oh, well... Carry on then.
And damn good job. Are you his speech writer?
Maybe I should write his speeches.
280Z28
10-21-2011, 04:45 PM
You should watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WELkanHrSqw
I'm not sure what your point is. My post is the only consistent interpretation of what's been said.
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 04:45 PM
Maybe I should write his speeches.
That truly was written as if he was speaking it.
280Z28
10-21-2011, 04:49 PM
Like just about everything else including 9-9-9 (or 9-0-9 this week) I don't think he really F%$king knows other than the fact he wants to be President. He's straddled the fence so much on so many things he's gonna hurt his testicles soon and fall off.
It's completely valid and expected for someone to have personal beliefs that differ from what they believe the government should be doing. In some cases he's straddling the fence (e.g. the electric border fence that was serious if people liked it but a joke if they didn't), but in this case he hasn't straddled at all. He's politically pro-choice, and personally pro-life. As a government official the one that matters is his political belief, so for the sake of running for office Cain is consistently and unambiguously pro-choice.
lucent
10-21-2011, 04:52 PM
It's completely valid and expected for someone to have personal beliefs that differ from what they believe the government should be doing. In some cases he's straddling the fence (e.g. the electric border fence that was serious if people liked it but a joke if they didn't), but in this case he hasn't straddled at all. He's politically pro-choice, and personally pro-life. As a government official the one that matters is his political belief, so for the sake of running for office Cain is consistently and unambiguously pro-choice.
Then explain this:
"No abortion should not be legal."
It's from the video I linked which you obviously didn't watch.
280Z28
10-21-2011, 04:57 PM
Then explain this:
"No abortion should not be legal."
It's from the video I linked which you obviously didn't watch.
Laws should not be written in a way such that abortion is expressly allowed, as that could send a message that it is a socially/morally acceptable option. However, abortion should not be expressly prohibited by law so the final decision should be left to the woman and her doctor.
It may seem like a stretch to draw all that from a sentence but I'm looking at the whole picture. Herman Cain, like everyone, has a personal and political view on the abortion issue and it's hidden inside his cryptic interviews. I don't see any other way to interpret his interviews as a whole - this is not a soundbyte saying I've put together from it.
That truly was written as if he was speaking it.
hahaha that's what he always does. He doesn't take a firm position, or in this case, takes two OPPOSING positions, beefs his response up with a lot of verbal pauses a la "quite simply", "to be quite honest", "what I'm simply saying", etc. and then repeats some neutral, firm-sounding rhetoric ("find the problem, get good people, fix the problem", etc.), and just floats around the issue(s) while weaving an indecipherable web of nonsense. Obama does the same thing to a certain degree. The idiots lap it up, and ask for more. Why? I'll never understand.
wgadget
10-21-2011, 05:02 PM
So nice to have Cain supporters in our midst.
Got any apples or oranges?
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 05:03 PM
Herman Cain, like everyone, has a personal and political view on the abortion issue and it's hidden inside his cryptic interviews. I don't see any other way to interpret his interviews as a whole - this is not a soundbyte saying I've put together from it.
Like abortion? Then he thinks it's up to the woman.
Hate abortion? Then he thinks life should be protected from conception.
That about sums it up. The guy's a joke, he's trying to appeal to everybody on issues where it's virtually impossible.
Like abortion? Then he thinks it's up to the woman.
Hate abortion? Then he thinks life should be protected from conception.
That about sums it up. The guy's a joke, he's trying to appeal to everybody on issues where it's virtually impossible.
QFT! He's hoping people will only pay attention to what they want to hear. Apparently, a lot of them do.
280Z28
10-21-2011, 05:06 PM
Like abortion? Then he thinks it's up to the woman.
Hate abortion? Then he thinks life should be protected from conception.
That about sums it up. The guy's a joke, he's trying to appeal to everybody on issues where it's virtually impossible.
Again, this is still consistent. When talking with someone who is pro-choice, he can simply express his political view. When talking with a pro-life person, he focuses on his personal beliefs of the issue. That doesn't change the fact that as a politician, his political and legal view is pro-choice, and that's the only side that voters should be considering.
sailingaway
10-21-2011, 05:09 PM
According to a politico article today he was also unclear when he ran for state senate whether he did or did not, or maybe sometimes did, support embryonic stem cell use. He said he'd have to know the facts of each case because sometimes it might be ok and sometimes not.
lucent
10-21-2011, 05:12 PM
Laws should not be written in a way such that abortion is expressly allowed, as that could send a message that it is a socially/morally acceptable option. However, abortion should not be expressly prohibited by law so the final decision should be left to the woman and her doctor.
It may seem like a stretch to draw all that from a sentence but I'm looking at the whole picture. Herman Cain, like everyone, has a personal and political view on the abortion issue and it's hidden inside his cryptic interviews. I don't see any other way to interpret his interviews as a whole - this is not a soundbyte saying I've put together from it.
He specifically f****** said that abortion shouldn't be legal. You're just pissing me off now.
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 05:13 PM
Again, this is still consistent. When talking with someone who is pro-choice, he can simply express his political view. When talking with a pro-life person, he focuses on his personal beliefs of the issue. That doesn't change the fact that as a politician, his political and legal view is pro-choice, and that's the only side that voters should be considering.
No he literally said in the video that it should not be legal, women should not be able to run around getting abortions, and that we have to respect the sanctity of life from conception. Those are his words, not mine.
But he also said that Government shouldn't be involved and it should be up to the woman, which means it should be legal (or not expressly prohibited. Ala "is the glass half empty or half full").
He really is just twisting his words around and has absolutely no intention of tackling that issue one way or the other, but doesn't have the balls to just say it.
Again, this is still consistent. When talking with someone who is pro-choice, he can simply express his political view. When talking with a pro-life person, he focuses on his personal beliefs of the issue. That doesn't change the fact that as a politician, his political and legal view is pro-choice, and that's the only side that voters should be considering.
But he also said "No, abortion should not be legal", those exact words, on stossel. Clearly not a pro-choice position? He's clearly just straddling the fence, and doing a terrible job at it. The man is a shape-shifting manipulator without one principled stance in his entire philosophy (or lack thereof).
idiom
10-21-2011, 05:21 PM
He is trying to have his baby and eat it too.
lucent
10-21-2011, 05:21 PM
So basically Cain's personal opinion is that abortion should not be legal, but then he doesn't think it should be illegal.
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
TheTexan
10-21-2011, 05:22 PM
I like how Cain bounces back and forth between legal and illegal, and Stossel is like "... so are you against it, or for it..." and Cain looks like he wants to punch him and say "just WHAT do you not GET its REAL CLEAR"
wgadget
10-21-2011, 05:23 PM
According to a politico article today he was also unclear when he ran for state senate whether he did or did not, or maybe sometimes did, support embryonic stem cell use. He said he'd have to know the facts of each case because sometimes it might be ok and sometimes not.
Sounds like ol' Herman is a relativist.
TheTexan
10-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Stossel show. I like having text versions of this stuff so Google has something to munch on
STOSSEL: Any cases where it should be legal?
CAIN: I don't think government should make that decision. I don't believe government should make that decision.
STOSSEL: People should be free to abort a baby?
CAIN: I support life from conception. No, people shouldn't be just free to abort because if we don't protect the sanctity of life from conception we will also start to play god relative to life at the end of life.
STOSSEL: So I'm confused on what your position is?
CAIN: My position is I'm pro-life. Period.
STOSSEL: If a woman is raped she should not be allowed to end the pregnancy?
CAIN: That's her choice. That's not the government's choice. I support life from conception.
STOSSEL: So abortion should be legal?
CAIN: No, abortion should not be legal. I believe in the sanctity of life.
STOSSEL: I'm not getting it, I'm not understanding.. if it's her choice that means its legal.
CAIN: No, I believe, don't believe a woman should have an abortion. Does that help to clear it up?
STOSSEL: Even if she is raped?
CAIN: Even if she's raped or is a victim of incest because there are other options. We must protect the sanctity of life and I've always believed that. Real clear.
kojirodensetsu
10-21-2011, 05:33 PM
He said he'd have to know the facts
It seems like that's Cain's argument for everything so that he doesn't have to take any real positions.
lucent
10-21-2011, 05:35 PM
Sounds like ol' Herman is a relativist.
Jan Mickelson did a comparison of his statements. He says both absolutist sentences and relativist.
raider4paul
10-21-2011, 05:37 PM
It seems like that's Cain's argument for everything so that he doesn't have to take any real positions.
That's because it is.
CNN: Should the US negotiate with terrorists for prisoner exchange?
Cain: No, absolutely not. The US does not and SHOULD not ever negotiate with terrorists. That said, before I decided whether or not I would I'd have to have all the facts.
Lucille
10-21-2011, 05:45 PM
I probably should have mentioned that I just pulled that Herman Cain quote entirely out of my ass. Reading it back, it sounds exactly like him though, so I'm not surprised people bought it. My bad :D
Your good! Well done!
Vox Day (http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/10/cain-is-pro-choice.html): "I wonder if Cain feels the same way about rape and murder. Personally opposed, but not something that the government should be trying to tell people to do or not."
Word, lucent:
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
280Z28
10-21-2011, 06:08 PM
He specifically f****** said that abortion shouldn't be legal. You're just pissing me off now.
Not trying to piss you off. I don't think Cain is at all who he says he is. I think he's manipulative and willing to lie his way in, and hopefully the Republican base realizes this before they go to the polls. When it comes to Republicans, pro-choice is much worse than just a flip-flopper which is why I work to emphasize this point.
Cleaner44
10-21-2011, 06:08 PM
He is trying to have his baby and eat it too.
+rep for the LOL!
lucent
10-21-2011, 06:18 PM
Not trying to piss you off. I don't think Cain is at all who he says he is. I think he's manipulative and willing to lie his way in, and hopefully the Republican base realizes this before they go to the polls. When it comes to Republicans, pro-choice is much worse than just a flip-flopper which is why I work to emphasize this point.
Sorry for taking it out on you. I have regular debates with a Cain supporter and he always drives me up the wall with his denseness.
Naraku
10-22-2011, 12:54 PM
It seems like that's Cain's argument for everything so that he doesn't have to take any real positions.
The first debate I saw with him months ago I got the same sort of impression. It is nice to not take a definitive position on any and every issue, leaving some room for consideration based on the circumstances, but the fact that was apparently his answer on everything began to make me think that he had no clue what he would actually do as President.
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