Peter Schiff is at Occupy Wall Street! [Archive] - Ron Paul Forums / Liberty Forest

pcosmar

10-20-2011, 06:54 PM

I think Schiff has it wrong. OWS is more anti-corporatist than anti-capitalist.

Add to that ,, he is NOT one of the 1%.
Not all wealthy are the 1%,, it is about those that are running the show..

It really would be good for him too educate himself first,, perhaps he will run across David Degraw down there. He may find he is actually on their side of this.

From the little I know of Schiff,, I really don't think he is out to screw the world.
The 1% are.

http://daviddegraw.org/2010/06/full-report-the-economic-elite-vs-the-people-of-the-united-states-of-america

crhoades

10-20-2011, 06:55 PM

Hmmm I think lew Rockwell and the mises crowd should road trip it there and set up shop with video cameras too.

They could bring jack hunter, Kane, and Val Venis as body guards if need be.

Chieppa1

10-20-2011, 06:57 PM

I watched the stream. It was pretty annoying. A group of ignorant kids asking him stupid questions, then talking over him trying to sound smart. This one guy was a complete asshole.

www.ustream.tv/occupythefed

Seraphim

10-20-2011, 07:05 PM

FWIW, I would wittle down that number to 0.1%.

0.1% still amounts to 7 million people.

Add to that ,, he is NOT one of the 1%.
Not all wealthy are the 1%,, it is about those that are running the show..

It really would be good for him too educate himself first,, perhaps he will run across David Degraw down there. He may find he is actually on their side of this.

From the little I know of Schiff,, I really don't think he is out to screw the world.
The 1% are.

http://daviddegraw.org/2010/06/full-report-the-economic-elite-vs-the-people-of-the-united-states-of-america

pcosmar

10-20-2011, 07:06 PM

sluggo

10-20-2011, 07:07 PM

The only thing bigger than Peter Schiff's mouth are his balls.

Love that guy. He eats, breathes, and sleeps money.

pcosmar

10-20-2011, 07:08 PM

FWIW, I would wittle down that number to 0.1%.

that is true..
David Degraw used 99% in his book. I think he was just rounding it out for writing purpose rather than mathematical formula.

http://daviddegraw.org/2010/06/full-report-the-economic-elite-vs-the-people-of-the-united-states-of-america

pcosmar

10-20-2011, 07:21 PM

Most of these folks are agreeing with him,,but having a hard time with "Government is the problem" when all their lives they have been taught "government is the solution".

but then that mind set is common across the political spectrum.

specsaregood

10-20-2011, 07:27 PM

www.ustream.tv/occupythefed

Everybody that has been smearing these people as hardcore socialists should be watching this. These guys are denying that and saying they are pro-capitalism.

Seraphim

10-20-2011, 07:27 PM

The only thing bigger than Peter Schiff's mouth are his balls.

Love that guy. He eats, breathes, and sleeps HONESTmoney.

Fixed :)

Seraphim

10-20-2011, 07:29 PM

Littered with misunderstanding though. I am glad SChiff is there, he is making some headway from the looks of it in the videos. The gap in the bridge is closing (for those he's encountering).

Everybody that has been smearing these people as hardcore socialists should be watching this. These guys are denying that and saying they are pro-capitalism.

Sentient Void

10-20-2011, 07:35 PM

/nvm

HOLLYWOOD

10-20-2011, 07:41 PM

Who's the Union jerkoff with the teeth. Uneducated fool

WIRP

10-20-2011, 07:41 PM

Kudos to Peter for fighting the good fight on the front lines, by trying to educate these people. That one guy quoting Adam Smith was so ignorant, yet so arrogant. Still, I don't think these people are completely hopeless to understand the situation. They have many huge holes in their understanding, but these are the sorts of conversations we have to have with people to snap people into reality. They have the passion, we have to supply the knowledge, otherwise some charismatic Obama type will just keep telling them it's a Wall Street owning the government problem, and they just need better regulations.

Feeding the Abscess

10-20-2011, 07:52 PM

Hmmm I think lew Rockwell and the mises crowd should road trip it there and set up shop with video cameras too.

They could bring jack hunter, Kane, and Val Venis as body guards if need be.

Jack Hunter has never struck me as a large guy. Sub in Kokesh for Hunter

bunklocoempire

10-20-2011, 07:54 PM

Thank you Mr. Schiff!

Thanks OP!

Bunkloco

bkreigh

10-20-2011, 07:55 PM

What videos are everyone talking about? I want to see/hear his conversations and what they've been talking about and how he's 'made headway'.

I'm really interested in seeing/hearing this. Anyone got any links? The OP link just had a twitter update and the photo, but that's it.

post #17

Cdn_for_liberty

10-20-2011, 07:56 PM

Left wing loons never blame the government for selling out but keep blaming the special interest for lobbying for the special privileges. Peter couldn't have said it any clearer in regards to the government selling out their power yet these people keep missing the point. I think deep down, these people like crony capitalism but it's just that they want entities that they like to get that special privilege. (example: green energy, unions, student loans).

It's great that Peter is down there talking with these folks but i think these folks are a lost cause.

Zatch

10-20-2011, 08:06 PM

TUBE: http://www.ustream.tv/occupythefed

Cdn_for_liberty

10-20-2011, 08:08 PM

is peter still down there right now? cause that link isn't live, it's prerecorded.

brushfire

10-20-2011, 08:11 PM

I like the dude who's filming - says that they are affiliated with http://occupythefed.net/

Fellow Ronpaulians...

Feeding the Abscess

10-20-2011, 08:12 PM

I think Peter may do better if he pulls a few crowd members in to one of his radio shows. Still, can't hurt to try to reach a few peeps live in action.

Zatch

10-20-2011, 08:15 PM

ANOTHER TUBE: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17999453

Cutlerzzz

10-20-2011, 08:17 PM

It's great that Peter is down there talking with these folks but i think these folks are a lost cause.Most people are hopeless, but there is potential for conversions in any group.

nobody's_hero

10-20-2011, 08:21 PM

Crap, this is epic and I have to go to bed. Hope someone is recording it.

pcosmar

10-20-2011, 08:25 PM

Most people are hopeless, but there is potential for conversions in any group.

Same problem on "left" and "right". people think more Government is the answer. "there aught to be a law".

The education system has been a success. :(

If you can get through to them that Less Government is the answer,,, in every area.
I am trying on another site (ampedstatus),, but some are stuck there.

specsaregood

10-20-2011, 08:28 PM

Man, when schiff dropped the "there is nothing immoral about greed" bomb, you could see jaws dropping. way to go schiff!

nobody's_hero

10-20-2011, 08:34 PM

This is surprisingly much more civil than I expected.

dannno

10-20-2011, 08:45 PM

I can't wait to see the vids, but he is NOT the 1%.

low preference guy

10-20-2011, 08:47 PM

I can't wait to see the vids, but he is NOT the 1%.

who cares. whatever gets people attention.

musicmax

10-20-2011, 08:52 PM

Man, when schiff dropped the "there is nothing immoral about greed" bomb, you could see jaws dropping. way to go schiff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

AdamT

10-20-2011, 09:00 PM

Damn looks like peeps are lovin him!

AdamT

10-20-2011, 09:30 PM

LOL FF to 15:00 where Schiff pwns some leftist dude from Madison, WI so hard!

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17999453

Rosenzweig

10-20-2011, 09:32 PM

kuckfeynes

10-20-2011, 10:22 PM

He's nowhere near the biggest dogs, but he is most definitely in the top 1%.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_income/

dannno

10-20-2011, 10:35 PM

who cares. whatever gets people attention.

Ya, those were great vids, I wish I could give Peter Schiff a +rep

dannno

10-20-2011, 10:35 PM

He's nowhere near the biggest dogs, but he is most definitely in the top 1%.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_income/

He is not the 1% that the movement refers to.

99% is not an exact figure, and it isn't dependent completely on wages. It's more about who controls the economy.

Roxi

10-20-2011, 10:49 PM

Oh my goodness. I didn't realize Peter Schiff could get MORE awesome.

Roxi

10-20-2011, 11:04 PM

PaulConventionWV

10-20-2011, 11:25 PM

I think Schiff has it wrong. OWS is more anti-corporatist than anti-capitalist.

That's your opinion... based on?

TheBlackPeterSchiff

10-20-2011, 11:28 PM

Peter Schiff should write a book on the economic history of America. A lot of people are confused about the history of regulation, "deregulation", the income tax, and other economic topics. I liked it when he cleared up the misconception that Americans actually paid 70% tax rates and such. Seems like all the leftists have the same talking points:

- "In the 50's, the rich paid 70%, and we were prosperous!"
- "Reagan deregulation caused the bubble!!"
- "It was the repeal of Glass-Steaglal!"
- "Govt spending and WW2 ended the depression!"

TheBlackPeterSchiff

10-20-2011, 11:30 PM

dannno

10-20-2011, 11:33 PM

I think Schiff has it wrong. OWS is more anti-corporatist than anti-capitalist.

That's your opinion... based on?

Um, ok, it is clear that neither of you watched the videos before posting. Although I am also guilty of the same thing, as you can see above, I hope that both of you watch the videos and see what is really going on at these protests. PaulConventionWV, Peter Schiff basically blasts all of your arguments to hell in these videos, so I really hope you watch them.

Peter Schiff asks everybody about whether they are anti-capitalist, marxist, etc.. and ALL of them, even the leftists, say that the marxists are a "fringe" element and the vast majority there are pro-capitalism.. They even did straw polls among the surrounding groups of people and found that most had no problem with capitalism. They had a problem with the banks and corporations getting govt. to do their dirty work, and so this allowed Peter Schiff to plant some important ideas in their mind.

Peter and the surrounding groups both agree that the media is trying to paint them all as leftist/marxist/fringe elements and that ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PETER SCHIFF WAS ASKING THEM WAS TO CLEAR UP THESE MISCONCEPTIONS.

GreenBulldog

10-20-2011, 11:43 PM

Wow...ballsy, quick, and principled...Peter Schiff looked bigger and brighter than Ron Paul in those videos...And anyone looking better than Ron is rare.

...Of course Ron is better in total though, of course. :D

PaulConventionWV

10-20-2011, 11:47 PM

Everybody that has been smearing these people as hardcore socialists should be watching this. These guys are denying that and saying they are pro-capitalism.

That's little to rejoice over. Most of the people still want more government.

Wesker1982

10-20-2011, 11:54 PM

BALLS

PaulConventionWV

10-21-2011, 12:12 AM

Um, ok, it is clear that neither of you watched the videos before posting. Although I am also guilty of the same thing, as you can see above, I hope that both of you watch the videos and see what is really going on at these protests. PaulConventionWV, Peter Schiff basically blasts all of your arguments to hell in these videos, so I really hope you watch them.

It might help if I knew what argument I am supposedly making, according to you. I asked what it is based on that the people are anti-corporatist. Okay, they don't like corporations, but ultimately, I wouldn't call them anti-corporatists when it comes down to it. I never said that most of them were anti-capitalist. If you know what socialism is, though, most of them definitely hold some sort of socialist beliefs, such as government regulation of the market.

Again, what is my argument? Also, I actually did watch the video. I just really don't know what you're talking about when you refer to "my arguments."

Peter Schiff asks everybody about whether they are anti-capitalist, marxist, etc.. and ALL of them, even the leftists, say that the marxists are a "fringe" element and the vast majority there are pro-capitalism.. They even did straw polls among the surrounding groups of people and found that most had no problem with capitalism. They had a problem with the banks and corporations getting govt. to do their dirty work, and so this allowed Peter Schiff to plant some important ideas in their mind.

Yeah, I know the marxists are fringe there. They're fringe everywhere. That doesn't mean those people don't hold socialist beliefs and want socialist changes, which most of them clearly do, since they are rejecting Peter's arguments pretty vociferously.

Peter and the surrounding groups both agree that the media is trying to paint them all as leftist/marxist/fringe elements and that ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PETER SCHIFF WAS ASKING THEM WAS TO CLEAR UP THESE MISCONCEPTIONS.

Yes, of course. Did I ever say anything about Marxism? Perhaps you could use some reading comprehension before responding next time.

TER

10-21-2011, 12:27 AM

"Greed is not immoral" - Peter Schiff

Sorry, Peter. It is.

dannno

10-21-2011, 12:29 AM

It might help if I knew what argument I am supposedly making, according to you. I asked what it is based on that the people are anti-corporatist. Okay, they don't like corporations, but ultimately, I wouldn't call them anti-corporatists when it comes down to it. I never said that most of them were anti-capitalist. If you know what socialism is, though, most of them definitely hold some sort of socialist beliefs, such as government regulation of the market.

Again, what is my argument? Also, I actually did watch the video. I just really don't know what you're talking about when you refer to "my arguments."

I was referring to your arguments in past threads, like this one:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?323430-OWS-is-GIVING-us-an-open-net!&p=3657793&viewfull=1#post3657793

And yes, they are CLEARLY anti-corporatism when every single one of them keeps shouting AT PETER that the corporations are the ones manipulating govt... Peter has to say something along the lines of, "Yes! I agree with you, so take the power away from government, and the corporations don't have any power, except the power you give them with your voluntary exchanges with them."

Yeah, I know the marxists are fringe there. They're fringe everywhere. That doesn't mean those people don't hold socialist beliefs and want socialist changes, which most of them clearly do, since they are rejecting Peter's arguments pretty vociferously.

The big thing they don't understand is that taxes on corporations take away money for everyone when they see the biggest richest corporations colluding with government. Really what they want is a rich colluding with government tax that brings some of that money back, and they don't realize that many corporations deserve what they get because they provide real services and are supported exclusively by their customers.

Peter Schiff proves that these people are reasonable enough to have these types of discussions with, and while they may continue to fight for their side for the sake of argument, I will bet that some of these people go home and research Peter Schiff and other related material and end up changing their minds.

That is why, I say, we should be a part of this, like Peter Schiff is, but in our own way.. while you say that all libertarians should stay away because they don't promote libertarian ideals.. But how are they supposed to promote libertarian ideals if there are no libertarians
there!?

Yes, of course. Did I ever say anything about Marxism? Perhaps you could use some reading comprehension before responding next time.

I said the media is portraying them a lot more to the left than they really are.

dannno

10-21-2011, 12:44 AM

"Greed is not immoral" - Peter Schiff

Sorry, Peter. It is.

Acquiring a lot of high value possessions in a free market means to create a lot of possessions for your fellow man first.

Greed is a lot worse in the context of when you are hurting others vs. helping others.

dannno

10-21-2011, 12:46 AM

since they are rejecting Peter's arguments pretty vociferously.
.

Actually a lot of the time they were saying things like, "Ya, I agree, so why aren't you here with us?"

And in a sense, he was ;)

Cutlerzzz

10-21-2011, 12:51 AM

Why is it so hard for some to accept that he may have reached out to some of those people, and may not have? It's possible that he got them thinking on some issues while failing to get them to change at all on others. We don't know what is going on inside their heads, or what will be in the future. Some of them were polite and responsive, some were not. The same can be said of the Tea Party (which some hypocritically reject while endorsing Occupy Wall Street).

Just talking to them cannot hurt. Schiff is doing a good thing, both by providing me 17 minute of entertainment, and by potentially spreading the message of liberty. I don't know if it will work, but trying will not hurt. The people there are individuals with their own ideas.

Keith and stuff

10-21-2011, 01:00 AM

"Greed is not immoral" - Peter Schiff

Sorry, Peter. It is.

According to Ayn Rand is a good thing. I personally think it it neutral. Greed is just greed. TER, I know you are greedy but I don't take offense to it.

TER

10-21-2011, 01:00 AM

Acquiring a lot of high value possessions in a free market means to create a lot of possessions for your fellow man first.

Greed is a lot worse in the context of when you are hurting others vs. helping others.

Acquiring a lot of high value possessions in a free market to create a lot of possessions for your fellow man is not greed. It is charity.

The problem is, for most, such work and devotion to acquiring material possessions often times leads to greed, which is neither moral nor a virtue.

TER

10-21-2011, 01:01 AM

According to Ayn Rand is a good thing. I personally think it it neutral. Greed is just greed. TER, I know you are greedy but I don't take offense to it.

Ayn Rand said many interesting things. Some of which were wrong, such as the comment you made above.

Danke

10-21-2011, 01:06 AM

"Greed is not immoral" - Peter Schiff

Sorry, Peter. It is.
Oh shit. I agree with TER. Time to go to bed.

Mach

10-21-2011, 01:11 AM

Schiff should have waited for this article by Mr.Rockwell and passed it around......

The State is everybody’s enemy. Why don’t the protesters get this? Because they are victims of propaganda by the State, doled out in public school, that attempts to blame all human suffering on private parties and free enterprise. They do not comprehend that the real enemy is the institution that brainwashes them to think they way they do.

http://lewrockwell.com/rockwell/the-evil-1-percent194.html

It seems to be just another divide and conquer dance, both sides are correct, to a certain extent...... lots here are totally against the Federal Reserve, a private bank....

The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank (Federal Reserve)...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.
- Carroll Quigley

Keith and stuff

10-21-2011, 01:14 AM

Jack Hunter a body guard? Have you seen Jack Hunter?

I have met Jack more than once. He is a nice man. He is very smart and a good blogger. A body guard? I think not.

MJU1983

10-21-2011, 01:15 AM

FrankRep

10-21-2011, 02:16 AM

nice. lol

"I'm the 1%. Lets talk"

pure

10-21-2011, 02:46 AM

Ayn Rand said many interesting things. Some of which were wrong, such as the comment you made above.
Why is she wrong?

TER

10-21-2011, 02:58 AM

Why is she wrong?

Because she practiced self-worship and made an idol of her own 'objective' beliefs.

mello

10-21-2011, 03:01 AM

Where is the video that Schiff recorded? The audio from that ustream was terrible.

InTradePro

10-21-2011, 03:16 AM

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17999453

Very good stuff.

InTradePro

10-21-2011, 03:17 AM

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17999453

Very good stuff.

jasonxe

10-21-2011, 03:35 AM

Maybe he'll have the recorded audio on his show today or video on his website.

crhoades

10-21-2011, 03:53 AM

I have met Jack more than once. He is a nice man. He is very smart and a good blogger. A body guard? I think not.

Come on! Jimmy Hart? How many wrastling managers kicked major bootie when the opposing wrestler was thrown out of the ring and the ref wasn't looking? Guess you need to be "friends" with Hunter on facebook to get my body guard comment. :)

Diurdi

10-21-2011, 04:06 AM

Because she practiced self-worship and made an idol of her own 'objective' beliefs. Greed is just human nature. It's distinguished from ambition only by the subjective opinion of a person. People are ambitious when we approve of it and greedy when we disapprove of it. In reality they're one and the same thing.

As long as you're not harnessing your greed for theft, fraud or assault - your greed will most likely help to serve others as well as yourself.

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."
-Adam Smith

crhoades

10-21-2011, 04:21 AM

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17999453

Very good stuff.

Got up early to get some work done...Just lost 25 minutes watching this. Winning hearts and minds. What he did takes a spine, a mind, and a heart to care to go out and do it. Maybe a little self promotion while he's at it...:)

kylejack

10-21-2011, 07:27 AM

That's your opinion... based on?
Based on the signs and chants they choose to use. "Banks got bailed out, we got sold out."

kylejack

10-21-2011, 07:29 AM

I think Schiff has it wrong. OWS is more anti-corporatist than anti-capitalist.

Um, ok, it is clear that neither of you watched the videos before posting.
Huh?! Why?

Revolution9

10-21-2011, 07:46 AM

My opinion of Schiff has just jumped 100%! And to all those "Let's avoid OWS like the plague" folks.... :p

At first, before the crowd swelled I was with the do not go crowd as it was a datamining hotspot. Now..fahgget aboudit! It is now a natural phenomena..which prolly pisses off the agitators for Obama types who like to funnel things to their own abattoir. Hopefully they can go all winter and into the spring. If they do that is one hell of a message.

Rev9

Revolution9

10-21-2011, 07:59 AM

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 08:04 AM

That's little to rejoice over. Most of the people still want more government.

The bit to "rejoice" over is that these people aren't completely gone. The want to live the american dream; the vast majority don't want to be socialists, they want to be capitalists and enjoy liberty. They are upset at what they are being handed instead and just need to be shown the way.

TheBlackPeterSchiff

10-21-2011, 08:22 AM

This was awesome.

kylejack

10-21-2011, 08:27 AM

I would say that the core message of the protesters is that of Howard Beale. They are mad as hell, and they're not going to take this anymore.

ds21089

10-21-2011, 08:52 AM

LOL FF to 15:00 where Schiff pwns some leftist dude from Madison, WI so hard!

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17999453

Even better... Listen to the comment at 18:13-4 That really makes me feel a lot better.

MRoCkEd

10-21-2011, 08:54 AM

Can't wait to watch

Wesker1982

10-21-2011, 09:12 AM

This was awesome. Someone needs to put this on youtube for easier sharing.

jmdrake

10-21-2011, 09:25 AM

jmdrake

10-21-2011, 09:33 AM

He is not the 1% that the movement refers to.

99% is not an exact figure, and it isn't dependent completely on wages. It's more about who controls the economy.

See, that's the problem. "The movement" doesn't exist as a unified whole. So in the movement are indeed talking about the 1% who happen to make over $400,000 per year and some are focused on the 0.01% who are making unjust gains and the two numbers are being fudged together. Saying "Those who profited from the Wall Street bailout" and "those who make over X per year" or have "more than X in personal wealth" are two entirely different things. When people like Michael Moore say "end capitalism" or Rosanne Barr say "send those with over 100 million in assets to re-education camps", the are fudging (purposefully in my opinion) the 1% and the 0.01%. I heard Rosanne "clarify" her remarks on Alex Jones, and frankly the more she talked the worse it sounded. It wasn't just people who made over 100 million she was after, but anyone who had over 100 million. Oh but she would make exceptions for the Steve Jobs and Warren Buffets of the world because "they did good with their money". :rolleyes:

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 09:34 AM

Acquiring a lot of high value possessions in a free market to create a lot of possessions for your fellow man is not greed. It is charity.
The problem is, for most, such work and devotion to acquiring material possessions often times leads to greed, which is neither moral nor a virtue.

The problem is, "greed" isn't explictly limited to material possessions -- although that is the most common use. Greed can include a strong desire to get into heaven, please god or strong desire to acquire freedom and liberty. There is nothing immoral about having greed for any of those things.

Greed itself isn't immoral or wrong, it is one's actions taken that can be immoral or wrong. eg: stealing from others in order to get what one desires.

jmdrake

10-21-2011, 09:42 AM

The problem is, "greed" isn't explictly limited to material possessions -- although that is the most common use. Greed can include a strong desire to get into heaven, please god or strong desire to acquire freedom and liberty. There is nothing immoral about having greed for any of those things.

Greed itself isn't immoral or wrong, it is one's actions taken that can be immoral or wrong. eg: stealing from others in order to get what one desires.

From Webster:

Definition of GREED

: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed

I'm not sure how you give from "selfish and excessive desire" to merely "strong desire". For example I have a strong desire for Ron Paul to be president. But it's not for selfish reasons. Nor would I do anything illegal or immoral to advance that cause. Politicians who say whatever the think the voters want to hear? That's what I would call "greed".

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 10:13 AM

I'm not sure how you give from "selfish and excessive desire" to merely "strong desire". For example I have a strong desire for Ron Paul to be president. But it's not for selfish reasons. Nor would I do anything illegal or immoral to advance that cause. Politicians who say whatever the think the voters want to hear? That's what I would call "greed".

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. either way, I certainly do have selfish reasons for wanting Ron Paul to be president. There would be benefits for others as well but at its core I want them for myself (selfish).

jmdrake

10-21-2011, 10:21 AM

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. either way, I certainly do have selfish reasons for wanting Ron Paul to be president. There would be benefits for others as well but at its core I want them for myself (selfish).

Well let me put it this way. Under the Cain 9-9-9 plan I might get a tax break. Under the Paul "Restore America" spending cuts my family could lose money. I support Restore America over 9-9-9. I believe a lot more people lose under 9-9-9 than win (despite Cain's lies to the contrary) and the "Restore America" cuts are essential for the long term future of the country. I guess I'm being "selfish" on behalf of my children and grandchildren.

RonPaul101.com

10-21-2011, 10:22 AM

FWIW, I would wittle down that number to 0.1%.

0.1% still amounts to 7 million people.

I think the "1%" means Americans, not globally. But I agree with you that the top 0.1% is more accurate of where the issues should be focused. That would be the top 400,000 richest Americans, still a lot of very wealthy people.

RonPaul101.com

10-21-2011, 10:23 AM

Well let me put it this way. Under the Cain 9-9-9 plan I might get a tax break. Under the Paul "Restore America" spending cuts my family could lose money. I support Restore America over 9-9-9. I believe a lot more people lose under 9-9-9 than win (despite Cain's lies to the contrary) and the "Restore America" cuts are essential for the long term future of the country. I guess I'm being "selfish" on behalf of my children and grandchildren.

Actually you are being selfless for the entire country, and that's a good thing.

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 10:26 AM

Well let me put it this way. Under the Cain 9-9-9 plan I might get a tax break. Under the Paul "Restore America" spending cuts my family could lose money. I support Restore America over 9-9-9. I believe a lot more people lose under 9-9-9 than win (despite Cain's lies to the contrary) and the "Restore America" cuts are essential for the long term future of the country. I guess I'm being "selfish" on behalf of my children and grandchildren.

Well there is a lot more that would hopefully come with a Ron Paul presidency than just money, I would think. Also, I would suspect that you recognize it maybe as short term hurting monetarily; but a net gain in the longterm.

dannno

10-21-2011, 10:37 AM

Huh?! Why?

Because Schiff revealed that part of the entire point of going out and doing this was to dispell the myth that they are all a bunch of anti-capitalist marxists. He asked them the question in a way that put them on the defense, like, "So the media says you guys are all a bunch of anti-capitalist marxists.." and their answer was always something like, "No, they are the small minority fringe, most of us are completely fine with capitalism", and then Schiff would come back with something like, "Ok, well that's why I'm here to help dispell these myths."

Then he would go on to explain how the corporatism they are complaining about wouldn't exist if the govt. didn't have the power to control the markets.

I was mostly using your post because the other poster I addressed had also addressed your post and they were saying a lot of things contrary to what we saw in this video in previous threads.

FrankRep

10-21-2011, 10:48 AM

Because Schiff revealed that part of the entire point of going out and doing this was to dispell the myth that they are all a bunch of anti-capitalist marxists. He asked them the question in a way that put them on the defense, like, "So the media says you guys are all a bunch of anti-capitalist marxists.." and their answer was always something like, "No, they are the small minority fringe, most of us are completely fine with capitalism", and then Schiff would come back with something like, "Ok, well that's why I'm here to help dispell these myths."

Peter Schiff called himself the "1% percent" to make a clear separation that he was on the other side of the argument.

That's good. I support that. Peter Schiff did it correctly.

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 10:50 AM

dannno

10-21-2011, 11:03 AM

Peter Schiff called himself the "1% percent" to make a clear separation that he was on the other side of the argument.

That's good. I support that. Peter Schiff did it correctly.

If you think that is why he did that; then you didn't watch the videos and conversations. He was calling them out to see if it was truly class warfare they were protesting in favor of; hint: it wasn't.

I agree with specs here, Frank, you COMPLETELY MISSED the ENTIRE POINT of the conversation, that is, if you even watched them!!

Half the time they were all agreeing with each other about the problems, and Peter Schiff made it very clear that he was on their side when it came to corruption in DC. In fact, they agreed so much the OWS group kept asking him why he doesn't come join them in the fray! Of course the irony was he was already there.

pcosmar

10-21-2011, 11:17 AM

I agree with specs here, Frank, you COMPLETELY MISSED the ENTIRE POINT of the conversation, that is, if you even watched them!!

Half the time they were all agreeing with each other about the problems, and Peter Schiff made it very clear that he was on their side when it came to corruption in DC. In fact, they agreed so much the OWS group kept asking him why he doesn't come join them in the fray! Of course the irony was he was already there.

There is much agreement on the problems. It is the solutions that there is confusion about.
Schiff was educating them on that. I have made attempts on another forum.

Many think that more regulation (more Government) is the answer. Much as many on the right think, More Patriot act, more police and more laws.
The correct answer is less. Less government. That is something Both sides of the aisle need to learn.

FrankRep

10-21-2011, 11:21 AM

I agree with specs here, Frank, you COMPLETELY MISSED the ENTIRE POINT of the conversation, that is, if you even watched them!!

Half the time they were all agreeing with each other about the problems, and Peter Schiff made it very clear that he was on their side when it came to corruption in DC. In fact, they agreed so much the OWS group kept asking him why he doesn't come join them in the fray! Of course the irony was he was already there.

I watched it. Peter Schiff made it VERY CLEAR he was the "1%." That's what I'm talking about.

Peter Schiff doesn't agree with MORE regulation so he disagrees with them.

Athan

10-21-2011, 11:33 AM

"Greed is not immoral" - Peter Schiff

Sorry, Peter. It is.

I've got to disagree. I agree that it is a neutral motivation and much like fire and depends largely in the individual. It can provide warmth, save lives, help mankind, or unchecked completely destroy or harm.

Yes, greed without a code of morals is dangerous. However it greed can be a good motivating factor for undertaking work and a profession. Most polilticans are dangerous and immoral, but is Ron Paul immoral because he is a politican?

dannno

10-21-2011, 11:52 AM

I watched it. Peter Schiff made it VERY CLEAR he was the "1%." That's what I'm talking about.

Peter Schiff doesn't agree with MORE regulation so he disagrees with them.

Wow, so you're so completely deluded that you're never going to "get it". You're never going to see that he was actually trying to CONNECT with these people and help them see the solution that should be really obvious TO THEM because THEY have a better idea of what is happening in this country than 90% of the population. That's really too bad.

I bet you even vote for the Republican nominee no matter who it is just because they said in the debates they would reduce regulations when you know damn well they are going to increase them just like they always have. We would be better off with more of these OWS protesters who end up not voting for Obama because they realize he is corrupt than people who are "against regulations" but vote for the god damn establishment candidate just because they have the right letter next to their name.

FrankRep

10-21-2011, 12:03 PM

Wow, so you're so completely deluded that you're never going to "get it". You're never going to see that he was actually trying to CONNECT with these people and help them see the solution that should be really obvious TO THEM because THEY have a better idea of what is happening in this country than 90% of the population. That's really too bad.

Dude. Listen up. I'm against their **** Solutions ****.

Get over yourself.

Lothario

10-21-2011, 12:20 PM

We really need to get rid of this idea that "greed is immoral." You guys are operating under the same delusions of the people that deride a "capitalism" that doesn't exist.

Greed only becomes immoral in the context of guns (government). In the free market, greed can only manifest itself, in the long term, through providing society the best possible service and products at the best possible price. Greed, in a free market, is a net benefit to everyone. When guns (government) become involved, it distorts your perception of greed. Its not the greed that's immoral, it's the guns.

dannno

10-21-2011, 12:27 PM

Dude. Listen up. I'm against their **** Solutions ****.

Get over yourself.

Do you think I support their solutions??

The point is that you have, in the past, made a lot of threads and arguments that are completely contrary to what both myself and Peter Schiff were able to find out during our experiences at OWS.

You have talked about all of the far-left Obama worshiping elements of at these gatherings and how they are completely different from us, when in fact, they have more similarities to us than mainstream Republican supporters who might SAY they want less regulations, but they vote again and again for politicians who make more regulations and expand the size and scope of government.

These OWS protesters are more "evolved", politically speaking, because they are able to recognize the false left-right paradigm that is used by the establishment to elect corrupt political officials. This puts them in a unique position to better understand OUR solutions than someone who is apart of the establishment and identifies them self as a Republican.

My point is Peter Schiff is ultimately going to agree on more with the OWS protesters than he would be an establishment Republican who may like Peter's rhetoric, but will ultimately vote for a big govt. establishment candidate because they don't truly understand what is going on in this country.

pcosmar

10-21-2011, 12:59 PM

Get over yourself.

Get over yourself. You are just sowing divisions and preventing any solutions.

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 01:05 PM

Dude. Listen up. I'm against their **** Solutions ****.

You mean like stopping bailing out corporations and the banks? The people in the video were supporting that solution. So you are for bank and corporate bailouts? Interesting.

dannno

10-21-2011, 01:09 PM

You mean like ending the bailing out of corporations and the banks? The people in the video were supporting that solution. So you are for bank and corporate bailouts? Interesting.

FIFY

specsaregood

10-21-2011, 01:14 PM

FIFY
yeah, that. dunno what happened there.

Those people in the videos were clearly against the bailouts and corporatism and here frank is saying he is against their solutions. Sounds to me like frank supports the bailouts.

nobody's_hero

10-21-2011, 01:55 PM

Greed exists, and will exist, but it is kept in check by the market. I could be a greedy T.V. salesman selling regular old HDTVs for $10,000 each, but no one in their right mind is going to buy them at that price.

I've watched this video for the third time at ustream and I just want to know, "where's the rest of the footage?"

If I were Peter I'd be giving out free access accounts for any liberals he comes across at the Occupy Wall Street protests, so they can listen in on SchiffRadio to learn a thing or two. Maybe invite some to come on and do some interviews on the show itself.

Athan

10-21-2011, 02:10 PM

To whom it may concern:

GET OVER YOURSELF.

Brian4Liberty

10-21-2011, 02:22 PM

We really need to get rid of this idea that "greed is immoral."

Greed is not the best word to use. Self-interest is a better term. We all look out for our own self-interest, the interest of our families, etc, as best we can. That better describes healthy motivations in a free economy and society.

Greed is a negative word, and constitutes a sin in some religions. It implies excess and often is considered a motivation that results in real crimes like fraud, theft, and even murder. It also implies that a person is a sociopath.

low preference guy

10-21-2011, 02:27 PM

Greed is just another word for egoism. All of you against egoism should shut up and stop doing anything for yourselves, including eating.

Rosenzweig

10-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Peter Schiff should really write a book on economic history. He could make a myth buster typed book too. I have a hard time finding literature on economic history from an Austrian perspective.

Austrian Econ Disciple

10-21-2011, 02:48 PM

Peter Schiff should really write a book on economic history. He could make a myth buster typed book too. I have a hard time finding literature on economic history from an Austrian perspective.

You should pick up Murray Rothbard's Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought.

http://mises.org/store/Austrian-Perspective-on-the-History-of-Economic-Thought-2-volume-set-P273.aspx

Rosenzweig

10-21-2011, 03:01 PM

You should pick up Murray Rothbard's Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought.

http://mises.org/store/Austrian-Perspective-on-the-History-of-Economic-Thought-2-volume-set-P273.aspx

It isn't as old as some of the books I find on Mises.org. Some are written in the 40s which isn't relevant about the later half of the 20th century. I'll give it a read. I still think Peter Schiff should write a book on economic history, because he has a nice way of describing economics. And by nice, I mean simple, but without loss of meaning.

jmdrake

10-21-2011, 03:05 PM

Greed is just another word for egoism. All of you against egoism should shut up and stop doing anything for yourselves, including eating.

There is a difference between greed and enlightened self interest. Using the eating example, greed is when you eat yourself to an early grave because you crave food that tastes good but isn't good for you. And yes, I know Ayn Rand disagrees with the definition I'm using. But there has to be some way to distinguish between self interest oriented behavior and self/community destructive behavior.

jmdrake

10-21-2011, 03:08 PM

Dude. Listen up. I'm against their **** Solutions ****.

By the same token Ron Paul is against many of the tea party "solutions". (Electric fences? Stopping construction of mosques?) OWS and the tea party represent two groups of people really upset about the same thing but coming at it from different angles. Both the left and the right are upset about the bailouts. Both have been betrayed by their own politicians. And both are being misdirected...possibly by the same people.

Brian4Liberty

10-21-2011, 03:48 PM

Greed is just another word for egoism. All of you against egoism should shut up and stop doing anything for yourselves, including eating.

Let's take a look at the Thesaurus. Both look "bad", but they don't reference each other as synonyms.

Main Entry: Greed
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: overwhelming desire for more
Synonyms: acquisitiveness, avarice, avidity, covetousness, craving, cupidity, eagerness, edacity, esurience, excess, gluttony, gormandizing, graspingness, hunger, indulgence, insatiableness, intemperance, longing, piggishness, rapacity, ravenousness, selfishness, swinishness, the gimmies, voracity

http://thesaurus.com/browse/greed

Main Entry: egoism
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: self-centeredness
Synonyms: arrogance, assurance, boastfulness, boasting, bragging, conceit, conceitedness, egocentricity, egomania, gasconade, haughtiness, insolence, megalomania, narcissism, ostentation, overconfidence, preoccupation with self, presumption, pride, self-absorption, self-admiration, self-confidence, self-importance, self-interest, self-love, self-possession, self-regard, self-worship, selfishness, superiority, swellheadedness, vainglory, vanity, vaunting

http://thesaurus.com/browse/egoism

Brian4Liberty

10-21-2011, 03:49 PM

Forum hiccup.

Aden

10-22-2011, 09:41 AM

At the 10:30 mark Schiff says that Reason TV was down there with him, and that next week they will be releasing a video to YouTube. Can't wait.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecACtAxVaac

dolphin

10-22-2011, 09:44 AM

Ron Paul's economic advisor and avid promoter and advocate.

Would be nice if he could educate them people to the Revolution.

matt0611

10-22-2011, 09:59 AM

You should pick up Murray Rothbard's Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought.

http://mises.org/store/Austrian-Perspective-on-the-History-of-Economic-Thought-2-volume-set-P273.aspx

I think he means more of the history of the US economy and not the history of economic theories. (though I've heard that Rothbard book is great)

Aratus

10-22-2011, 05:55 PM

this was very brave and brash! peter schiff has an edge at times to him.
up here mayor menino is upset because it looks like that 'anonymous':cool:
hacked into some police dep't records. ACORN + the unions are the more
sane levels of OWS if some of the freestaters aren't? freethinkers all?:cool:
sometimes anarcho-capitalism can meet up with a distrust of big brother!

dannno

10-23-2011, 03:15 AM

bump

dannno

10-23-2011, 03:15 AM

bump

PaulConventionWV

10-24-2011, 07:10 PM

I was referring to your arguments in past threads, like this one:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?323430-OWS-is-GIVING-us-an-open-net!&p=3657793&viewfull=1#post3657793

And yes, they are CLEARLY anti-corporatism when every single one of them keeps shouting AT PETER that the corporations are the ones manipulating govt... Peter has to say something along the lines of, "Yes! I agree with you, so take the power away from government, and the corporations don't have any power, except the power you give them with your voluntary exchanges with them."

The big thing they don't understand is that taxes on corporations take away money for everyone when they see the biggest richest corporations colluding with government. Really what they want is a rich colluding with government tax that brings some of that money back, and they don't realize that many corporations deserve what they get because they provide real services and are supported exclusively by their customers.

Peter Schiff proves that these people are reasonable enough to have these types of discussions with, and while they may continue to fight for their side for the sake of argument, I will bet that some of these people go home and research Peter Schiff and other related material and end up changing their minds.

That is why, I say, we should be a part of this, like Peter Schiff is, but in our own way.. while you say that all libertarians should stay away because they don't promote libertarian ideals.. But how are they supposed to promote libertarian ideals if there are no libertarians
there!?

I said the media is portraying them a lot more to the left than they really are.

You just admitted that they are not fighting for the same solutions and that they want more government. The problem is the government. We seem to have different definitions of corporatism. In my view, government is the initiator of corporatism (in the sense that they were the first ones to act). Are you defending the view that corporations are responsible for corporatism and that government should regulate their greed?

EDIT: I don't necessarily disagree with your view that we should be a part of this, if you really do mean in the Peter Schiff sort of way. I have said all along go ahead and talk to people, but don't act like this is our protest or that we can act like this is some kind of anti-fed protest when it's taking place on wall street. We should not join in these protests and act like this is a freedom movement. It most certainly is not. I never said you couldn't go and try to educate people. Good luck with that. I don't know how effective it will be, but try if you want.

PaulConventionWV

10-24-2011, 07:19 PM

Actually a lot of the time they were saying things like, "Ya, I agree, so why aren't you here with us?"

And in a sense, he was ;)

What they meant was, "Why aren't you here protesting with us?" I think it is pretty clear why he wasn't. They are just trying to recruit people to their protest, but he doesn't want to protest with them because he knows the wrong message is getting through. That's what I'm saying. Go talk to them, but don't protest with them. Of course, I can't tell you what to do, but I can try to give meaningful advice.

dolphin

10-24-2011, 07:51 PM

OWS = ONE WORLD SYSTEM

OWS is in grave danger of being coopted into the Internationalist ONE WORLD SYSTEM.

The puppet masters and their marionettes are pushing for global control and those involved in OWS who support them have been deceived or are being willfully blind!

"Global market logic here trumps sovereign national law, and the only way to address “illegal” immigration is to globalize law and regulation. International financial institutions like the IMF and the WTO push for global regulations, but on behalf of the interests of global corporations. Liberals need to be fighting for transnational democratic institutions to assure democratic outcomes in the global public interest."

Calling All Liberals: It's Time to Fight
http://www.thenation.com/article/164071/calling-all-liberals-its-time-fight

How Did the Arab Spring Come to New York?
https://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-How-Did-the-Arab-Spring-Come-to-New-York

Occupy Wall Street to Attack US Freedoms With Constitutional Convention
https://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Occupy-Wall-Street-to-Attack-US-Freedoms-With-Constitutional-Convention

OWS Demands Global UN Tax [Exactly What the Plutocracy wants.]
https://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-OWS-Demands-Global-UN-Tax-Exactly-What-The-Rothschild-cabal-Wants