Ron Paul Defends Middle Class at Republican Debate

[zach]

Rep. Ron Paul is definitely the only Republican candidate who has displayed a degree of sympathy for the Occupy Wall Street protesters, and last night he proved it on a national stage by addressing resident Republican crazy man (one of many), Herman Cain.

Cain has suggested that OWS is anti-American and that they have only themselves to blame for their troubles—not Wall Street nor the government whom they have been petitioning for a grievance.

Cain stated in the debate, “They’re directing their anger at the wrong place. Wall Street didn’t put in failed economic policies… Wall Street isn’t going around the country trying to sell another $450 billion. They should be standing in front of the White House.”

Well, Sir, they are, in fact, standing as close to the White House as they can and everywhere else across the country.

Paul defended the protesters by stating, “Mr. Cain has blamed the victims. There are a lot of people who are victims of this business cycle.”

... And Paul said what so many politicians are unwilling to say, “We have to blame the business cycle and the economic polices that led to this disaster.”

Continued at http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/152425/ron-paul-defends-occupy-wall-street-and-middle-class-at-republican-debate/

Good article!

[dannno]

Inb4 the anti-OWS people come in and say that Ron Paul didn't endorse "their marxist solutions"

[D.A.S.]

This ought to be posted for every Democratic-leaning person to read. So if you have any liberal or Blue Dem friends on Facebook, make sure to link this article.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Compassion leads to Corrections.

[Bossobass]

From the cited article:



“[The Federal Reserve] creates the financial bubbles,” said Paul. “Who got stuck? The middle class got stuck. They lost their jobs and they lost their houses.”

And Paul said what so many politicians are unwilling to say, “We have to blame the business cycle and the economic polices that led to this disaster.”

Thank you, Dr. Paul, for defending the honorable protesters and middle class against Mr. Cain’s ignorant blustering on national television.

Ron's positions are so crystal-clear and simple that every time I see a "label and condemn the protesters" thread or post, I know for sure it isn't a Ron Paul supporter who penned it.

Bosso

[erowe1]

RP made a big mistake in this one.

[speciallyblend]

Inb4 the anti-OWS people come in and say that Ron Paul didn't endorse "their marxist solutions"

i agree with ron paul. I was just saddened by some of the ows protesters!

[speciallyblend]

RP made a big mistake in this one.

huh? i think your wrong

[speciallyblend]

From the cited article:




Ron's positions are so crystal-clear and simple that every time I see a "label and condemn the protesters" thread or post, I know for sure it isn't a Ron Paul supporter who penned it.

Bosso

ditto, though i doubt i will be going to ows anymore. better off knocking on doors!!

[klamath]

In RP's statement did he agreed with their solutions? He said he understands why people are upset however he didn't say "Unregulated Capitalism!"

[jmdrake]

RP made a big mistake in this one.

The truth is never a mistake. I was listening to Michael Savage last night. A caller phoned in disagreeing with him about OWS. For most of the call Savage was attacking him as being a socialist. And for the most part he (Savage) was right. But then the caller started talking about how there are elements inside OWS that are similar to the tea party and that the uber-rich are turning us against each other. Then Savage changed his tune. He asked the caller why General Electric didn't pay income tax yet nobody was protesting that. The caller said "Probably because they control NBC". Savage said "Exactly! The problem is how the cross linking of corporate boards. One person is on the board of GE, the on the board of NBC, then on the board that makes recommendations to the FDA etc. You end up with 5 people controlling the whole country. The left used to argue about that, but now they've been co-opted by that."

I know Ron Paul is making a sophisticated argument, but he's right. And as a movement we've got to embrace the sophistication and expound on it. We won't win this thing trying to run it as a conventional campaign because we don't have a conventional candidate. The sooner we realize the hand we're playing, embrace it and play it correctly, the sooner we bump the numbers up closer to the 15 to 20% range. But if we act like every ace Ron plays is somehow a "mistake" we will never win.

[dannno]

i agree with ron paul. I was just saddened by some of the ows protesters!

Many, even the marxist ones are a step ahead of the zombies watching the msm as far as what is going on in this country with the financial interests, but some of the people at the protests ARE the zombies watching the msm. The protests I've been to have been nearly 100% non-msm watchers (it's usually pretty easy to tell).

From there it's pretty easy to convince them that giving government more power just further empowers those with money who already control govt.

[FrankRep]

Ron Paul Defends Occupy Wall Street and Middle Class at Republican Debate
Ron Paul does NOT endorse Socialism. (aka: Their Solutions)

[dannno]

In RP's statement did he agreed with their solutions? He said he understands why people are upset however he didn't say "Unregulated Capitalism!"

What do you mean by "their solutions"?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?323652-Occupy-Wallstreet-OCWS-is-1-2-Liberal-1-2-Libertarian

[erowe1]

The truth is never a mistake.

His mistake wasn't that he told the truth. It was that he treated that truth as something OWS was about.

[erowe1]

..

[jmdrake]

His mistake wasn't that he told the truth. It was that he treated that truth as something OWS was about.

And in part that is what OWS is about. People are angry. They have a right to be angry. We were ripped off by a collusion between big government and big business. Here's the problem with both the "tea party" movement and the OWS movement. Both got co-opted to only look at one half of the problem. The tea party looks angrily at big government and ignores the role of crony capitalism in our current mess. OWS looks at fake capitalism and ignores the role of government in creating it. So you get fake politicians on the right like Herman Cain who supported socialism via the bailouts and fake politicians on the right like Obama who got more Wallstreet donations than anyone else deflecting the attention of the people from the real culprits. Ron Paul is 100% correct in recognizing the legitimacy of the anger and 100% smart for looking to redirect it. Herman Cain can't win the general election by saying garbage like "people should just blame themselves for their economic woes". Wrong as hell! We've been screwed over by the big government/big business communist/fascist collusion that Herman Cain is part of.

[roho76]

The truth is never a mistake. I was listening to Michael Savage last night. A caller phoned in disagreeing with him about OWS. For most of the call Savage was attacking him as being a socialist. And for the most part he (Savage) was right. But then the caller started talking about how there are elements inside OWS that are similar to the tea party and that the uber-rich are turning us against each other. Then Savage changed his tune. He asked the caller why General Electric didn't pay income tax yet nobody was protesting that. The caller said "Probably because they control NBC". Savage said "Exactly! The problem is how the cross linking of corporate boards. One person is on the board of GE, the on the board of NBC, then on the board that makes recommendations to the FDA etc. You end up with 5 people controlling the whole country. The left used to argue about that, but now they've been co-opted by that."

I know Ron Paul is making a sophisticated argument, but he's right. And as a movement we've got to embrace the sophistication and expound on it. We won't win this thing trying to run it as a conventional campaign because we don't have a conventional candidate. The sooner we realize the hand we're playing, embrace it and play it correctly, the sooner we bump the numbers up closer to the 15 to 20% range. But if we act like every ace Ron plays is somehow a "mistake" we will never win.

Exactly. We don't need to bluff because we're holding a Royal Flush.

[erowe1]

Here's the problem with both the "tea party" movement and the OWS movement. Both got co-opted to only look at one half of the problem.

I'm probably in the minority here for thinking this. But I don't think either got co-opted. The tea party and OWS both turned out to help exactly the political factions they were supposed to.

[dannno]

His mistake wasn't that he told the truth. It was that he treated that truth as something OWS was about.

If you don't think OWS is about telling the truth about the financial interests that control both parties, take taxpayer money and bailout the big banks, then you are paying too much attention to the msm.

[erowe1]

If you don't think OWS is about telling the truth about the financial interests that control both parties, take taxpayer money and bailout the big banks, then you are paying too much attention to the msm.

I hardly pay any attention at all to msm. But I do know that 49% of OWS supports bank bailouts.

[dannno]

I'm probably in the minority here for thinking this. But I don't think either got co-opted. The tea party and OWS both turned out to help exactly the political factions they were supposed to.

What are you talking about?!?!?

WE started the Tea Party movement, it was co-opted by Fox News.

Ampedstatus, anonymous and similar groups started OWS, which was originally a non-partisan, anti bank, anti wall st., anti govt. collusion movement.. the left is attempting to hijack it and even the people who started the movement are calling out groups like MoveOn for trying to hijack the movement, or for the Obama admin to try and use it to get votes.

How have you completely missed EVERYTHING that is happening and how it's actually been happening? What is your source for news outside of RPF?

[erowe1]

What are you talking about?!?!?

WE started the Tea Party movement, it was co-opted by Fox News.

I don't believe that's true.

[erowe1]

Ampedstatus, anonymous and similar groups started OWS, which was originally a non-partisan, anti bank, anti wall st., anti govt. collusion movement.

And I don't believe that's true either.

Things like this don't get co-opted. The co-opting, to the extent that you can call it that, happened long ago, before anonymous or anyone else got involved. Those people were most likely just useful idiots.

[dannno]

I hardly pay any attention at all to msm. But I do know that 49% of OWS supports bank bailouts.

That is a BULLSHIT statistic from ONE OWS protest that was probably filled with paid union shills.

Every OWS protest I've been to, EVERYBODY was against the bank bailouts.

[erowe1]

That is a BULLSHIT statistic from ONE OWS protest that was probably filled with paid union shills.


In other words, a representative sample.

[dannno]

And I don't believe that's true either.

Things like this don't get co-opted. The co-opting, to the extent that you can call it that, happened long ago, before anonymous or anyone else got involved. Those people were just useful idiots.

You clearly haven't read the history of the movement, which pcosmar has posted numerous times.

Read the "report from the frontlines", it's the last link the OP

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?322139-Wayback-Machine.-(when-did-this-start-)

[dannno]

In other words, a representative sample.

Have you been to a protest? I've been to three different groups' protests which were all grassroots except for a couple of govt. informants.

Who cares about the paid union shills at the other protests??? Their sole purpose for being paid to be there is to discredit their anti-establishment status. If you are paying attention to them, then what they are doing is working on you.

[erowe1]

You clearly haven't read the history of the movement, which pcosmar has posted numerous times.

Read the "report from the frontlines", it's the last link the OP

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?322139-Wayback-Machine.-(when-did-this-start-)

Why should I believe any of that?

[erowe1]

If you are paying attention to them, then what they are doing is working on you.

What they are doing is what they were supposed to be doing since they started planning this maybe a year ago. They're not just working on me, they're also working on all the people involved in the protests who are helping them.

[jmdrake]

I'm probably in the minority here for thinking this. But I don't think either got co-opted. The tea party and OWS both turned out to help exactly the political factions they were supposed to.

The "tea party" was started in 2006 by 9/11 truthers.

See: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20061217193729511

So unless the 9/11 truth movement was funded by the "powers that be".....

[erowe1]

The "tea party" was started in 2006 by 9/11 truthers.

See: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20061217193729511

So unless the 9/11 truth movement was funded by the "powers that be".....

I don't believe that's the same tea party. Any resemblance between the two is coincidental. As I said in the other thread, when I went to the planning meeting for the first anti-Obama tea party in my area, the organizers had been appointed by our county GOP, and I'm quite sure they had no connection to the truther movement.

By the way, if it's really that easy to co-opt a movement like this, has the truther movement also been co-opted? Was it, perhaps, originally intended to be a knitting group?

[gosmo]

I don't believe that's true.

You are talking to people that helped start the original tea party movement, are you are calling them liars?

[jmdrake]

I don't believe that's the same tea party. Any resemblance between the two is coincidental. As I said in the other thread, when I went to the planning meeting for the first anti-Obama tea party in my area, the organizers had been appointed by our county GOP, and I'm quite sure they had no connection to the truther movement.

Ummmm.....that's the definition of being co-opted. There was already an organic movement on the ground when the professional politicians decided to start their own thing but co-opt the name and the energy. Back ago when they were still doing rallies there were 2 or 3 tea party organizations putting them on. Folks just got the word that there was a "tea party" and showed up. Our mistake as a movement was staying too much in "stealth mode" and doing a "Go along to get along" type deal to try to co-opt the GOP itself. We were somewhat successful in that effort and somewhat not.



By the way, if it's really that easy to co-opt a movement like this, has the truther movement also been co-opted? Was it, perhaps, originally intended to be a knitting group?

I'm sure there's been some co-opting of the truther movement. But it's easier to co-opt something that's less defined. The agenda of the 9/11 truth movement is clear. The agenda of OWS and the tea party....not so much. Really the Ron Paul movement co-opted the tea party from the truthers when we asked them to move their 2007 event away from the Boston harbor to avoid Ron further getting a "truther tag". Had the tea party stayed as "truther focused" as it was initially then the GOP chair you were talking about earlier wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot pole. But when it became about "limited government" then the GOP was like "Hey! We can pretend to be limited government too!"

Anyhow, back to your original point. Ron Paul is clearly not making a mistake. Even if you believe the GOP started the tea party movement from its inception and Alex Jones is secretly working for them that still doesn't mean that there aren't independent minded small government people who joined the movement and who can be reached. The same holds true for OWS. Whatever you think of either movement, the anger is real and is justifiable. Ron is making the right move to point that out and to attempt to redirect at least some of it.

[erowe1]

You are talking to people that helped start the original tea party movement, are you are calling them liars?

What people are you talking about?

[erowe1]

Ummmm.....that's the definition of being co-opted.

No it's not. It's by definition two different things.

I don't claim that Burger King co-opted McDonald's either (or vice versa).

[klamath]

The "tea party" was started in 2006 by 9/11 truthers.

See: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20061217193729511

So unless the 9/11 truth movement was funded by the "powers that be".....

Well if you want to go that far Rush limbaugh started it in the 90's.

[jmdrake]

No it's not. It's by definition two different things.

I don't claim that Burger King co-opted McDonald's either (or vice versa).

Analogy fail. Burger King isn't called McDonald's. When you walk into Burger King you don't think you're walking into McDonald's. In this case the name "tea party" was co-opted along with the methodology. What was changed was the ingredients. This was a classic case of a movement being co-opted. Still, argue it however you want. Ron's still right in his analysis and his outreach. We should do more of the same.

[jmdrake]

Well if you want to go that far Rush limbaugh started it in the 90's.

Source?

[heavenlyboy34]

The "tea party" was started in 2006 by 9/11 truthers.

See: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20061217193729511

So unless the 9/11 truth movement was funded by the "powers that be".....
Somewhere on RPFs there's a video from one of the original tea parties, circa 2006-7. It's a RP-oriented event.

[heavenlyboy34]

Analogy fail. Burger King isn't called McDonald's. When you walk into Burger King you don't think you're walking into McDonald's. In this case the name "tea party" was co-opted along with the methodology. What was changed was the ingredients. This was a classic case of a movement being co-opted. Still, argue it however you want. Ron's still right in his analysis and his outreach. We should do more of the same.This^^

[klamath]

Source?
Whether he started it then who knows but he was a huge part of promoting it. http://www.jstor.org/pss/3521678

[erowe1]

Analogy fail. Burger King isn't called McDonald's. When you walk into Burger King you don't think you're walking into McDonald's. In this case the name "tea party" was co-opted along with the methodology. What was changed was the ingredients. This was a classic case of a movement being co-opted. Still, argue it however you want. Ron's still right in his analysis and his outreach. We should do more of the same.

OK. The name was co-opted along with the methodology (my guess is by shear coincidence). But the movement wasn't. There was no connection between the tea party of the truther movement and the anti-Obama tea parties. There also was no connection between the Ron Paul tea party of 2007 and the anti-Obama tea parties. The anti-Obama tea parties started from scratch, designed from their inception to serve the purposes of certain Republican-friendly right-wing partisans, just like OWS was designed from its inception to serve the purposes of certain Democrat-friendly left-wing partisans. They didn't co-opt some other tea party that was already in existence. If either the tea party or OWS had turned out differently than they had been designed to be, then that would have been the result of co-opting. But those who planned them wouldn't have let that happen.

If you want to talk about the original tea party, then that's the one from 1773. The only thing all these other "tea parties" have in common is that they were each individually inspired by that one. If you want to say they co-opted their names, then that's what they co-opted them from.

[jmdrake]

Fine. The bottom line is that there are good people in both movements who are justifiably agree and are being misdirected. Ron Paul is right to point this out. Call it his "I feel your pain" moment, only he's being genuine.

[Xenophage]

OWS is full of morons, but morons become exponentially more dangerous as their numbers increase. In fact, nothing is more dangerous in the Universe than a large group of morons. The other Republicans are failing to take OWS as seriously as they should. Ron is trying to appeal to them in some sense and spread the message of liberty. The other Repubs are simply dismissing OWS.

Red October is coming if we aren't careful.