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View Full Version : MSNBC Morning Joe Apologist Mark Halperin Grades Las Vegas Debate




HOLLYWOOD
10-18-2011, 09:51 PM
: Paul B- Next to Last


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Markhalperin (https://twitter.com/#!/Markhalperin) Mark Halperin
My full debate report cards from Vegas. http://ti.me/pmOVcS (http://t.co/jl9xMMmm)
23 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/#!/Markhalperin/status/126498285564334080)
http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/halperingradesgood.jpg?w=590&h=386&crop=1

http://thepage.time.com/2011/10/18/grading-the-desert-dust-up/

Candidate grades are based on both performance and success in using the debate to improve their standing in the nomination contest.
Romney
Style: Rose above the fray on jobs and the economy, while Cain took heat for his 9-9-9 plan. Sought to play the adult, although Perry goaded him into noisy squabbles and went further than necessary in playing defense, taking some personal shots.
Substance: Displayed a cutting recall and delivery of detailed opposition research on his opponents ó notable in such a setting.
His worst moment: Lost his cool fending off Perry on immigration and seemed shrill when asserting it was his turn.
His best moment: Showed the eye of the tiger in fighting off Santorumís attempts to question his commitment to repealing ObamaCare.
The main thing: A strong voice on Mormonism, health care, immigration and the economy. Revealed chinks when assailed, likely emboldening Perry for future conflict. Still, no soundbite-ready moment of weakness coming out of Vegas and that means another win for the frontrunner.
Grade: A-
_____________________
Cain
Style: Stronger and more confident than in past debates. Did small things well ó cleverly gave out his website address in the guise of educating the public.
Substance: In command of the broad facts on health care and taxes, but weaker on foreign aid and terrorism.
His worst moment: Missed a chance to connect with middle and working class voters when responsding to a question about Occupy Wall Street protesters.
His best moment: Withstood early, intense gang-up on his tax plan, without changing his pleasing demeanor.
The main thing: Did very little attacking and a good job defending (although he overused his apples and oranges metaphor). Disappeared after the opening round but showed sufficient momentum throughout. Still too lightweight for the Chattering Class, but whatever has propelled Cain upward, upward, upward will almost certainly continue after this strong performance.
Grade: B+
_____________________
Perry
Style: His head was in a much better place than in previous debates, allowing him to show off some natural Texas charm. But going negative on Romney (including insistently bringing up the old controversy of illegal immigrants working on Romneyís lawn) reduced the likeability quotient substantially.
Substance: Didnít drill down below the bullet points on his economic plan or take command of the issue.
His worst moment: Tried to challenge Romney on immigration, but lost his focus and thrust in the heated interchange.
His best moment: When slamming Obamaís energy policy, reminded viewers that the party is looking for the candidate who can most effectively make the case against the incumbent ó and Perry demonstrated he has that capacity.
The main thing: More focused and energized this time around. Far from a perfect performance, but he engineered moments of titan-versus-titan conflict with Romney to build on in future debates. That, along with big budget TV advertising, remains his path back to the front of the pack.
Grade: B+
_____________________
Bachmann
Style: Forceful and passionate on every answer.
Substance: Showed off her knowledge of tax policy.
Her worst moment: Just when the Romney health care pile-on was heating up, she interrupted to take the conversation in a different direction.
Her best moment: Deft touch in knocking Cainís 9-9-9 tax plan.
The main thing: Her best debate since the June New Hampshire face-off that made her the hottest candidate in the race for a time. Still not selling her own economic plan or claiming a signature issue, but carried a strong anti-Obama critique throughout.
Grade: B
_____________________
Gingrich
Style: Cool and poised, he displayed assurance rather than anger.
Substance: Informed on every topic, but neglected to drive a positive message of his own.
His worst moment: Got schooled by Romney, who forced him to admit he once supported an individual mandate for health insurance.
His best moment: His appeal to Hispanic voters was passionate and clear, and the audience seemed intrigued by the notion of an epic Gingrich-Obama debate.
The main thing: Played the elder statesman well and was engaging, but didnít leap over Romney or Cain.
Grade: B
_____________________
Paul
Style: Struck a good balance between genial and serious.
Substance: Still has trouble bringing his policy oratory down from 30,000 feet to, say, 15,000 feet, so people can understand how it impacts their lives.
His worst moment: Nearly incoherent on Occupy Wall Street and bailouts, a topic that should have been in his wheelhouse.
His best moment: Struck a huge audience chord with his call to bring the troops home from Afghanistan.
The main thing: Overall, more accessible and clear than in previous debates. But still no breakthrough performance to expand his reach.
Grade: B-
_____________________
Santorum
Style: Had flashes of his usual forensic skills, but at times veered towards fraught.
Substance: Still focused more on rhetoric and criticism than concrete policies; asserts he has an economic plan, but doesnít sell it with specifics.
His worst moment: Given an early chance to take on Cain and 9-9-9, he didnít puncture his rival one bit.
His best moment: None stand out.
The main thing: Not as polished and distinct as in past sessions. Energetic on the attack, but had plenty of company this time and got marginalized.
Grade: C

pauladin
10-18-2011, 09:54 PM
notice how the three supposed frontrunners got the highest grades, the "wild cards" the middle grades, and santorum the lowest.

mwkaufman
10-18-2011, 09:56 PM
I don't know how anyone can give Perry an above average grade. He was the one completely befuddled and booed multiple times. Yikes.

Okie RP fan
10-18-2011, 09:58 PM
I don't have much to say about this.

Who can honestly give Perry any sort of passing "grade" after that performance, or rather, lack of?

Taco John
10-18-2011, 09:59 PM
The establishment is rallying hard behind Mitt Romney. They're upset that they didn't get on board with him before Super Tuesday of last year, and allowed McCain to get the nomination. Mitt would bring back the Rockefeller Republican mold that the establishment loves.

pauliticalfan
10-18-2011, 09:59 PM
And Nate Silver from NYT gave Ron a grade that was tied for first (alongside Newt). These are all pretty silly, biased "analyses" anyways. There's no way Perry had a B+, that's simply absurd. He was booed more times by the audience that was there than anyone I've ever heard.

matt0611
10-18-2011, 10:00 PM
I think Romney had a pretty good night but Perry above Paul?
Bachmann above Paul?
Cain was hammered tonight as well.

That guy has got to be joking...

FSP-Rebel
10-18-2011, 10:00 PM
Someone re-tweet w/ an Lol

VictorB
10-18-2011, 10:01 PM
Anyone who watched the debate and thought that Perry and/or Cain had a good performance are smoking crack.

Kevin_Kennedy
10-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Mitt Romney's carefully crafted image was shattered tonight, thanks to Rick Perry. Mitt finally got angry and flustered, which I don't think helps him at all. Rick Perry didn't have his worst debate performance, but he still did terrible. People think just because he was more energized he did better, but he just came off a bit manic in my opinion. Cain had his worst debate performance. Romney ripped him apart over 9-9-9 and all he could talk about in response was a poor fruit analogy. Ron Paul clearly had the best night of anyone on the stage, until the end when they skipped him. These "grades" are absolutely bizarre.

Ekrub
10-18-2011, 10:04 PM
Rewatching the debate right now. Perry might have ADHD. Don't know how someone can see he was the third best.

Feeding the Abscess
10-18-2011, 10:05 PM
Ron hit it out of the park on the bailouts. What a dick.

EDIT: Don't retweet with "lol," retweet with "What a dick"

Sean
10-18-2011, 10:06 PM
These people must be watching a different debate than me. Romney said something to the effect the Constitution prevented people from voting on religion. What? He was attacked for Romney Care. Perry was just plain horrible. Newt was shown to be for individual mandates. Cain doesn't know specifics about his own plan.

Anti Federalist
10-18-2011, 10:08 PM
Meh...black this out ya prick.

Sunstruck-Eden
10-18-2011, 10:10 PM
What a mother truckin' turd. Anyone who says Cain got a "B+" are sorely misguided.

JorgeStevenson
10-18-2011, 10:10 PM
Wow, this guy must be in denial - Ron's answer on Occupy Wall Street was one of the best moments of the debate, IMO.

The New Fury
10-18-2011, 10:11 PM
Am I the only one that felt like his critique of Paul was quite fair? I wouldn't barrage the guy with negative comments. Don't worry about what he gave the other candidates; use this outsider perception of Paul to steer resources in the right direction.

specsaregood
10-18-2011, 10:16 PM
Ron hit it out of the park on the bailouts. What a dick.


msnbc hack said, "His worst moment: Nearly incoherent on Occupy Wall Street and bailouts, a topic that should have been in his wheelhouse"

This just confirms that this was his best moment and the populist strength in it scared the beejezus out of all dnc hacks that are trying to co-opt the OWS people.

Agorism
10-18-2011, 10:19 PM
Bachmann forgot where Libya was during the debate. No way she did better the Ron.

kah13176
10-18-2011, 10:22 PM
Bachmann: *Whiny, interrupting voice* Anderson Anderson Anderson Anderson Anderson Anderson Anderson

Anderson: Bachmann?

Bachmann: Obama will be a ONE TERM PRESIDENT!

Brian4Liberty
10-18-2011, 10:42 PM
Pure propaganda. He knew how he was going to rank them before the debate started, and then added a couple of details to prove he watched it.

Brian4Liberty
10-18-2011, 10:43 PM
msnbc hack said, "His worst moment: Nearly incoherent on Occupy Wall Street and bailouts, a topic that should have been in his wheelhouse"

This just confirms that this was his best moment and the populist strength in it scared the beejezus out of all dnc hacks that are trying to co-opt the OWS people.

Exactly.

kpitcher
10-18-2011, 11:39 PM
The comment my father had after watching was 'I didn't realize we were going to watch a comedy'. There were so many moments when most candidates just looked beyond silly.

I thought Bachmann's worse moment was when she said everyone should pay taxes, even if you're too poor to owe taxes. When there are massive numbers of people out of work and her with her hand out 'gimme, even if you don't owe taxes' was a surprise. I mean I expect crazy but I just can't prepare myself for that level.

gb13
10-18-2011, 11:52 PM
I would give Ron a B+.

I think this guy's ratings of the other candidates is incredibly skewed (Rick Perry: B+!?!?!?! Come on...), but if you look at his remarks about Paul's performance, all of his criticisms were very constructive. He wasn't attacking his positions, or his character. He was merely commenting on his presentational skills. I can understand his points.

That said, Ron Paul was the clear winner, even with the B+ I would give him. The others looked like children, with the exception of Gingrich....but.....gross.

MJU1983
10-18-2011, 11:56 PM
I tweeted back:

http://twitter.com/#!/mju1983/status/126536866152456193


Were we watching the same debate? It reminded me of an SNL skit where Ron was the only "real" candidate up there.

HOLLYWOOD
10-19-2011, 12:40 AM
I would give Ron a B+.

I think this guy's ratings of the other candidates is incredibly skewed (Rick Perry: B+!?!?!?! Come on...), but if you look at his remarks about Paul's performance, all of his criticisms were very constructive. He wasn't attacking his positions, or his character. He was merely commenting on his presentational skills. I can understand his points.

That said, Ron Paul was the clear winner, even with the B+ I would give him. The others looked like children, with the exception of Gingrich....but.....gross.I agree with this...

GunnyFreedom
10-19-2011, 12:43 AM
Wow, this guy must be in denial - Ron's answer on Occupy Wall Street was one of the best moments of the debate, IMO.

Ya, I think the occupiers understood it. The problem there was comprehension, not articulation.

eleganz
10-19-2011, 12:45 AM
If Perry got a B+ then that discredits this whole article and author in my book.

CaptainAmerica
10-19-2011, 12:46 AM
what a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anaconda
10-19-2011, 01:08 AM
Everyone in the Establishment is afraid of Paul. None of the major cable "news" outlets are going to be honest about Dr. Paul.

MaxPower
10-19-2011, 01:39 AM
So, he pretty much "graded their performances" by listing them in order of poll standing with the exception of demoting Ron Paul to the back of the pack- which is precisely what the mass-media narrative has been struggling to do this entire election cycle.

PierzStyx
10-19-2011, 02:09 AM
Mitt Romney's carefully crafted image was shattered tonight, thanks to Rick Perry. Mitt finally got angry and flustered, which I don't think helps him at all. Rick Perry didn't have his worst debate performance, but he still did terrible. People think just because he was more energized he did better, but he just came off a bit manic in my opinion. Cain had his worst debate performance. Romney ripped him apart over 9-9-9 and all he could talk about in response was a poor fruit analogy. Ron Paul clearly had the best night of anyone on the stage, until the end when they skipped him. These "grades" are absolutely bizarre.

Perry basically had Mittens take out his manhood and slap him in the face with it, and he still ranks higher than Paul? How biased.

vita3
10-19-2011, 02:11 AM
Rick Perry deserved a C, tops.

The guy is dumb & fronting.

misconstrued
10-19-2011, 04:04 AM
Even people I know that do not like Ron Paul concede that he did well last night. Did this guy even watch the debate???

Cap
10-19-2011, 04:30 AM
Definitely Orwellian.
War is Peace ,
Ignorance is Strength ,
Freedom is Slavery.

Arklatex
10-19-2011, 04:59 AM
I would have said Gingrich did best of rest but he looked really bad when Mitt got him on the mandate thing, Romney looked really bad at times when fighting with Perry, so did Perry, Bachman benefited from not looking bad and Cain got Ron Pauled.

So Ron Paul A, Bachman B everyone else Cs

That's how I would have viewed it as an average voter.

speciallyblend
10-19-2011, 05:04 AM
bullshit , blackthisout

LawnWake
10-19-2011, 05:08 AM
Even Santorum, Perry and Romney seem to have recognized how well Paul did. I'm not usually one to call out the media on this shit, but this is clearly bullshit. He did stumble a few times and his last comment was awful, but he did amazingly well.

speciallyblend
10-19-2011, 05:08 AM
I would have said Gingrich did best of rest but he looked really bad when Mitt got him on the mandate thing, Romney looked really bad at times when fighting with Perry, so did Perry, Bachman benefited from not looking bad and Cain got Ron Pauled.

So Ron Paul A, Bachman B everyone else Cs

That's how I would have viewed it as an average voter.

i have to agree ,though bachmann looked like a crazed woman on that stage. I have to say obama is only worried about one winning the gop nomination guess who XXX XXXX!!!! the rest looked foolish and not very presidential. The question should be who was Presidential in last nights debate? XXX XXXX 2012 !!!!

loveshiscountry
10-19-2011, 05:16 AM
Speaking of, I'm watching Morning Joe over an hour into the show, tons of debate coverage, nothing about Ron Paul

crhoades
10-19-2011, 05:18 AM
Speaking of, I'm watching Morning Joe over an hour into the show, tons of debate coverage, nothing about Ron Paul

Ditto. Hmmm....RP being blacked out?

Philosophy_of_Politics
10-19-2011, 05:59 AM
http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/halperingradesgood.jpg?w=590&h=386&crop=1
_____________________
Paul
Style: Struck a good balance between genial and serious.
Substance: Still has trouble bringing his policy oratory down from 30,000 feet to, say, 15,000 feet, so people can understand how it impacts their lives.
His worst moment: Nearly incoherent on Occupy Wall Street and bailouts, a topic that should have been in his wheelhouse.
His best moment: Struck a huge audience chord with his call to bring the troops home from Afghanistan.
The main thing: Overall, more accessible and clear than in previous debates. But still no breakthrough performance to expand his reach.
Grade: B-


AKA: Please talk less common sense/english, as many American voters lack this element of thinking.

bunklocoempire
10-19-2011, 06:09 AM
Cain, Romney, and Perry. Oh, I see.

Just as CNN called it about 5 minutes after the production.. er, debate.

Even after Cain was torn to shreds and Perry fell apart, and was booed several times.

Go figure.


:mad:


Bunkloco

vita3
10-19-2011, 07:09 AM
This is exactly why we need an occupy the media.

wgadget
10-19-2011, 07:12 AM
I seriously don't get how Rick Perry can be taken seriously. Why would the bankers give him millions of dollars? It's freaking hilarious when he stalls for the correct word in the middle of a thought and comes up with...the wrong word.

LOL

bunklocoempire
10-19-2011, 07:43 AM
I seriously don't get how Rick Perry can be taken seriously. Why would the bankers give him millions of dollars? It's freaking hilarious when he stalls for the correct word in the middle of a thought and comes up with...the wrong word.

LOL

Ha! ...while he's pulling off his 'epic cat stare'..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jAn3paZs1s


Oh that I had talent to make an epic Perry stare tube...
:D
Bunkloco

anaconda
10-19-2011, 04:13 PM
Speaking of, I'm watching Morning Joe over an hour into the show, tons of debate coverage, nothing about Ron Paul

Maybe some of Joe's bosses had a little talk with him?