Evidence for the inefficiency of the Department of Education?

[Griffith]

Hello, I'm in a debate with someone about ending the Department of Education. I know Ron Paul mentioned in an interview with John Stossel about how there's evidence that since the Dep. of Education has come into existence quality of education has gone down and costs have gone up. And also how the one area they're totally in charge of, Washington D.C., has very high costs per student.

Anyone have any of this evidence on hand?

[erowe1]

If the quality of education has gone down and costs have gone up, that doesn't prove the DOE is inefficient. It proves it does what it was created to do very well.

[linusPAULing]

Check out this 1895 8th grade final exam from Salina KS. I'd be willing to bet that most 8th grade teachers today couldn't pass this exam.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/1895finalexam.html

This is indicative of a community that depends on itself, not the government, to thrive.

[AuH20]

Isn't it the mandates which cause major budget overruns on the part of the states?

[Matthew5]

Hello, I'm in a debate with someone about ending the Department of Education. I know Ron Paul mentioned in an interview with John Stossel about how there's evidence that since the Dep. of Education has come into existence quality of education has gone down and costs have gone up. And also how the one area they're totally in charge of, Washington D.C., has very high costs per student.

Anyone have any of this evidence on hand?

I don't have facts to back this up, but... ;) I would use Google Scholar to look up some journals on the issue for hard facts.

But as someone who works for a non-profit in the education field, I can tell you it's certainly worse off. Even in all the interviews and fireside chats I've had with public school officials (many in my family are teachers), I can tell you that the system doesn't work for them or the students.

My family just had dinner with a public school teacher and we had a very in depth discussion about this. I can assure you, things like "No Child Left Behind" and "Race to the Top" are destroying this country's education system. The emphasis is too much on college and every state being identical. There's not enough room on allow kids to choose their own path to success.

After our discussion, I was so enraged at the injustice that our government has committed in destroying the education system. I was immensely relieved when I saw Dr. Paul was serious about cutting the DOE in his first year as president!

[Matthew5]

I've got some real world data through testing we do for our students at the private school that we run. Every single student is from the public school system and each one tested woefully behind. Some as much as two or three grades behind. After one or two years in our program, they're all at least a full grade level ahead.

We've got to get the schools back to the local government, so they can make decisions on what's best for their students. We've proven that it can work.

[James Madison]

Ron Paul isn't president.

[oyarde]

The price tag alone is enough to deter any rational being .

[LibertasPraesidium]

Seemingly the Department of Education has issues with distributing money back to the states, working as a middle man with a group of federal politicians coming up with programs to distribute the money evenly or according to voted on regulations. It simply becomes more annoying in the midst of it all, but on top of this they have teacher's unions pushing them to distribute the money to the poorest states first so that overall education can increase. The pay teachers are making is pretty low, but it doesn't call for a union, it calls for free market competitions between real teachers and schools for quality education. If competition between schools were to increase, it would result in higher quality education for less, and teachers would become a bigger commodity because of how effective they were. There are some other ideas about how to grade or rate teachers, but im still doing a bit of research on that.

[donnay]

Charlotte Iserbyt: The Miseducation of America


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezTIYd5UFRY

Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt served as the head of policy at the Department of Education during the first administration of Ronald Reagan. While working there she discovered a long term strategic plan by the tax exempt foundations to transform America from a nation of rugged individualists and problem solvers to a country of servile, brainwashed minions who simply regurgitate whatever they're told.

Part one of our exclusive interview with Iserbyt breaks down how conditioning/training under a corporate agenda has replaced traditional education, leading to a deliberate dumbing down of Americans. Iserbyt further explains how Reagan signed agreements merging the U.S. and Soviet systems under the United Nations banner, turning over education and many other areas of public policy to global control.

This 74 minute exposé is a must see for anyone who wants to truly know why the education system is deliberately crafted to produce human drones with no critical thinking whose only skills are to be subservient, trust authority and follow orders.

http://prisonplanet.tv/component/content/article/430.html

Her book,'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' is free at
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

[emazur]

this isn't quite what you're looking for but may be of help:

combined reading and math scores reached their lowest point since 1995. (http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-09-14/news/30158736_1_reading-scores-math-scores-test-scores) but they place a lot of the blame on latino immigrants

also, 75% of dollars collected for federal education budget STAYS in Washington DC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw6xbMWEmw4

[heavenlyboy34]

How about this-the FedGov has been subsidizing college loans via the DOE (through various agencies, like Direct Loans) for generations now. Today, a BA is basically worthless and a Master's is in many ways the "new Bachelor's". On top of that, US colleges routinely graduate total ignoramuses-sometimes illiterates.

[Matthew5]

How about this-the FedGov has been subsidizing college loans via the DOE (through various agencies, like Direct Loans) for generations now. Today, a BA is basically worthless and a Master's is in many ways the "new Bachelor's". On top of that, US colleges routinely graduate total ignoramuses-sometimes illiterates.

+rep, QFT!

[donnay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

Well worth it to watch!

[deadfish]

This clip might help:

ReasonTV - Reason Saves Cleveland (http://reason.tv/video/show/1046) (w/ Drew Carey)

Episode 2: Fix the Schools (March 15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvzh82EpWBU

Unfortunately, I don't have any links handy for some hard data,charts, etc. I searched briefly on The Economist, I recall seeing some reports in that mag years ago. Couldn't find anything on the website though. If you're really motivated, find a couple books on the topic by searching amazon.com, then go check them out from the library and just go from there.

[brandon]

Honestly, looking for empirical proof of any macroeconomic of sociological hypothesis is a futile task. You're better off sticking to the constitutional, ethical, or praxeological arguments.

It's pretty easy to show that the cost of education has gone way up and the effectiveness has done way down, but there's a million variables and the other person would be right to call you out on not establishing direct causation (which is impossible).

[FreeTraveler]

Evidence for the inefficiency of the Department of Education?

Out of the nine current contenders for President of the United States, only one has a solid understanding of economics and history.

That says it all, right there.

[Bossobass]

Since the Department of Education began, it has spent nearly $1 Trillion Tax Dollars. In that span, the United States has falle from #1 in the world in basic educational skills to:


The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

There is also a complete failure to teach highly skilled trades. The US is currently short tens of thousands of skilled machinists:


As a result, when today's machinists retire, the industry could face the worst worker shortage it has ever seen.

"Skilled workers in manufacturing are much older, on average, than employees in other professions," says Dr. David Passmore, professor of education at Penn State. "If we don't replace these skilled workers, other countries will outstrip the United States in manufacturing competitiveness."

Indeed, Asian countries, for example, have already made it clear that they want to dominate precision machining. Without a trained work force in manufacturing, experts say that the United States will see a continued flight of quality jobs to companies overseas.


"Most manufacturing companies have not gotten involved in their local educational programs," he says. "Industry has said it doesn't have time because education doesn't meet its needs, hut we have to demand that educational facilities provide the technological training we need to compete."

The NAM study concludes that the public education system needs improved standards and accountability, but educators must also produce graduates that are familiar with the work world and skilled enough to succeed in it.

I could go on and on and on, but please do your own research. It makes for a much better debater when you have to find the data and educate yourself on the subject at hand.

Bosso