Opt-Out of the System

[lx43]

Come on Ron...... why didn't you allow in your proposal the option to let anyone that wanted to opt-out of Social Security to opt-out instead of just those 25 and younger?

I wish Ron would include as part of his platform the ability for anyone to opt-out:

1. The fiat currency (so that whoever wants to can use gold and silver, etc)
2. Opt-out of paying Social or Medicare
3. Opt-out of paying the corporate/personal income tax, capital gains tax, and estate taxes. If they choose to pay taxes allow that taxpayer to choose where the money goes.
4. Opt-out of govt regulation.

Should Ron's campaign platform include the opt-out strategy? I say yes.

[TonySutton]

Did you miss this part of his plan


Honors our promise to our seniors and veterans,
while allowing young workers to opt out.

[lx43]

Did you miss this part of his plan

Nope, I didn't. In his speech he said for those 25 years old and younger would be allowed to opt-out. Those of us above that age (like me) wouldn't have that option from my understanding.

But, I'm really talking about allowing people to opt-out of the system entirely.

[idiom]

4. Opt-out of govt regulation.

What does that even mean?


But, I'm really talking about allowing people to opt-out of the system entirely.

You mean like, suicide?

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Yes Ron let us ot out of Medicare and SS!!!

[TheTexan]

I'll be 26 when he wins the election next year. Ugh. :(

Oh well, it sounded like we'll be able to opt out eventually. It might just be a bit more complicated to opt out for us "older" folk.

[donnay]

It has taken nearly 100 years to get this country where it is currently, it is going to take more than four years to straighten it all out. Dr. Paul is setting the course. . .be patient. ;)

[neverseen]

in the Qand A they touched on it. if you are 30 you've already paid in a ton of money. I'm sure he would grant waivers, etc. It doesn't look like 100% of his plan is in the file he sent out. There would be TONS of rules and legal mumbo jumbo. this plan is something that is way better than everyone elses, and the american people can read and understand it easily. remember not all the people that we will need to get to vote for paul are libertarian leaning...

[lx43]

What does that even mean?



You mean like, suicide?


Rules issued by the EPA, OSHA, or the upcoming Obama mandate to by health insurance. My business spends thousands of dollars per employee just to comply with regulation. Those are the types of regulation I would like to opt-out of.

Funny. Thats probably what it would take for the govt to not tax you, but wait they even tax you in death in some circumstances.

[69360]

Come on Ron...... why didn't you allow in your proposal the option to let anyone that wanted to opt-out of Social Security to opt-out instead of just those 25 and younger?

I wish Ron would include as part of his platform the ability for anyone to opt-out:

1. The fiat currency (so that whoever wants to can use gold and silver, etc)
2. Opt-out of paying Social or Medicare
3. Opt-out of paying the corporate/personal income tax, capital gains tax, and estate taxes. If they choose to pay taxes allow that taxpayer to choose where the money goes.
4. Opt-out of govt regulation.

Should Ron's campaign platform include the opt-out strategy? I say yes.

Too soon. Too much of a shock for mainstream GOP. All you want will come in time gradually, don't worry.

[tremendoustie]

Nope, I didn't. In his speech he said for those 25 years old and younger would be allowed to opt-out. Those of us above that age (like me) wouldn't have that option from my understanding.

There's really no reason to not let older people opt out. Actually, by opting out, older folks would be giving up more benefits and avoiding fewer fees.



But, I'm really talking about allowing people to opt-out of the system entirely.

I agree with this, of course -- but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The response to Paul's plan is widespread and positive. What you're suggesting is ultimately the way society should work, but it would be incomprehensible to most people, and scary to most of the rest. Freedoms weren't destroyed in a day, and they won't be recovered in a day either.

[lx43]

in the Qand A they touched on it. if you are 30 you've already paid in a ton of money. I'm sure he would grant waivers, etc. It doesn't look like 100% of his plan is in the file he sent out. There would be TONS of rules and legal mumbo jumbo. this plan is something that is way better than everyone elses, and the american people can read and understand it easily. remember not all the people that we will need to get to vote for paul are libertarian leaning...

Oh I agree its a 100 times better than anyone else's proposal out there.

[lx43]

There's really no reason to not let older people opt out. Actually, by opting out, older folks would be giving up more benefits and avoiding fewer fees.

I wasn't referring to someone that is 55 to 65, I was more so referring to people in their 30s or 40s. These people have a chance to put the FICA taxes they pay to good use in different types of investments that can make money.

[The Free Hornet]

I wasn't referring to someone that is 55 to 65, I was more so referring to people in their 30s or 40s. These people have a chance to put the FICA taxes they pay to good use in different types of investments that can make money.

And those poor SOBs that are 50+? Is this an argument about principles or an arbitrary cut off age? Now you decide the age? Trust that you will be putting a guy in the whitehouse that wants to give you more freedom. If you have a wish list, it should be freedom for everybody including 55 to 65. Otherwise, save it for Santa.

[Rudeman]

Well you need a transition to get to an ideal. It may start at 25 and under to see how it works but it doesn't mean it'll stay at 25. I see his plan as part of a transition and to not scare off people who already think he's some radical who will abolish all government day 1.

[lx43]

And those poor SOBs that are 50+? Is this an argument about principles or an arbitrary cut off age? Now you decide the age? Trust that you will be putting a guy in the whitehouse that wants to give you more freedom. If you have a wish list, it should be freedom for everybody including 55 to 65. Otherwise, save it for Santa.

Your not getting my OP. No I frankly don't care who opts-out. Anyone should have that choice, but they will have to weigh the positives/negatives for themselves.

[AJ187]

I'm 26 and was a little flustered myself, but I'd be so happy for those younger than me. Really, stop thinking of yourselves and think what this would mean, it would also be a huge boom for the economy with all that extra cash to spend.

[mport1]

I wish he'd also have a provision for people to opt out of all government entirely.

[Keith and stuff]

You can already opt out of social security as far as I know. You just have to be self-employed. Just don't pay into the system Mark Edge and Ian Freedom of Free Talk Live (the #79 talk radio show in the US according to Talks Magazine) have done it for years. They talk about it online from time to time. Is their any self-employed small biz owner that has opted out of just social security and just for themselves and been prosecuted? I've never heard of the case.

[mport1]

You can already opt out of social security as far as I know. You just have to be self-employed. Just don't pay into the system Mark Edge and Ian Freedom of Free Talk Live (the #79 talk radio show in the US according to Talks Magazine) have done it for years. They talk about it online from time to time. Is their any self-employed small biz owner that has opted out of just social security and just for themselves and been prosecuted? I've never heard of the case.

True but Ian also doesn't pay income taxes. That is definitely illegal, they just haven't come after him yet. I'm bet it is illegal, they just probably rarely prosecute anybody for doing it.

[Eryxis]

This is news to me Keith... Any more info?

[69360]

I'm self employed. I don't make enough to pay federal taxes, so I don't pay into SS and don't expect to get a cent out of it. I'm effectively opted out. I suppose I would qualify for a small benefit being that I make over the 4,000 threshold to earn credits, if the system is solvent in 25 years when I would collect.

[miketoles]

He touched on this in the q&a, someone asked a question about "those of us older than 25", and he said, you gotta start somewhere, or something to that effect.

[Keith and stuff]

This is news to me Keith... Any more info?

I am not self-employed so I never bothered to look into it. Feel free to call into FTL and ask about it. The show is on the air 7 days a week, 3 hours a day.
http://www.freetalklive.com/

[XTreat]

I am 33, I don't trust government with my money. I don't care how much I have paid in I want out. They can keep what they have previously stolen in return for my freedom.

[lx43]

I am not self-employed so I never bothered to look into it. Feel free to call into FTL and ask about it. The show is on the air 7 days a week, 3 hours a day.
http://www.freetalklive.com/

When the IRS Gestapo discovers he isn't paying taxes he will surely go to jail; I surely wouldn't be advertising that he isn't paying taxes.

[alex_florida]

Why capital gain only? Why do not fully repeal Income Tax and abolish IRS? They cause huge moral hazard and let Government treat you worse than they treated medieval serfs. I understand that this is a transitional plan but why not to show clear intention and the path to do it even if not within the first year and term. At least, within the first term the process could be launched, and then to continue with repealing the 16th ammendment to get rid of Income tax and IRS forever and guarantee the irreversibility... I frustrated...

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

I think there's a fundamental reason for this. You all have invested into Social Security for years, and allowing people to Opt-Out might cause a mass evacuation from Social Security. Some variables to consider:

1) Government would be required to pay back all that money to fast, and it would need get Fed. Reserve loans in order to pay it back (we're in the negatives remember?)
2) Would have to appoint people to handle the massive spike of citizens that would opt-out.

[Elwar]

He did respond to the 25+ crowd saying that he would like to eventually move the age up but that it would take time.

Basically saying that he is able to make his plan work right now with the 25 and younger cut off but that it is likely not economically feasible to let everyone opt out and still pay welfare to seniors at the same time.

He also said he would like to end the income tax but that he needs to work on things that can be done first.

Low hanging fruit and all...