The U.S. Constitution - Do you really understand it?

[hazek]

How can we spread a message which all of us don't fully understand? I believe we can't.

Language is pretty obviously very important and it matters what words you use when you talk to people and try to educate them. And if you don't fully understand what you're talking about you can't possibly use the right words and so your message is vulnerable to be undermined by propaganda later on.

I strongly believe the following class on the U.S. Constitution should be obligatory for anyone claiming to be a Ron Paul supporter:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUXGOqO1r0Youtube playlist with all 43 parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s&feature=rellist&playnext=1&list=PL5606CA9DC5740038


If you believe I'm wrong and this isn't important, please, at least watch this:
(most important part starts at the 6:40 mark in part1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of586VeeqSs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjbIfzCEEI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ5LnjVJcFc

p.s.: I realize this has probably been posted before, but I was just reminded by a post on DP how important it is and felt like I should remind everyone about it.

[amy31416]

Watch 1 or 2/day and it's not unreasonable.

[hazek]

Watch 1 or 2/day and it's not unreasonable.

It's 8 hours total so people should spread between several days not just two IMO. But if you really want freedom in your life, you have to learn this.

EDIT: damn I'm stupid, I completely misunderstood what you meant with "1 or 2/day" and I fully agree with you. :p:o

[Pericles]

Evidence exists on several threads that some serious discussion about the Constitution is needed.

[heavenlyboy34]

Even if you do fully understand it, keep in mind that your opponents will point out that even the authors of the document and members of that generation did not adhere to it consistently. ;)

[amy31416]

It's 8 hours total so people should spread between several days not just two IMO. But if you really want freedom in your life, you have to learn this.

I meant watch 1 or 2 of the 43 videos per day--focus & digest on what you learn from those, then move on to 1 or 2 more the next day. Sry, typing 1-handed w/a squirmy baby who's tring to remove my glasses. :p

Would only take about 3 weeks.

[willwash]

I don't know...I've read "Good to Be King" several times and it has a lot of holes in it. I'm not saying it's not a good introduction to the COnstitution (and I owe my support of Ron Paul which dates back to 2005 to it), but there are some dubious claims in the book. I know Badnarik used his book as the text for his Constitution class, so I don't know how many of those dubious claims make it into those videos, but the book claims (among other things) that if you possess the "real" title to your car (a "Manufacturer's certificate of origin") you do not need license plates to drive it, and that the government, banks and car dealerships are all engaged in a big conspiracy to prevent people from ever possessing this document so as to force all vehicle owners to register their property (for future confiscation, if the overall tone of the book is to be believed)

[hazek]

Even if you do fully understand it, keep in mind that your opponents will point out that even the authors of the document and members of that generation did not adhere to it consistently. ;)

I was more concerned with the principles it incorporates than the document itself.

[donnay]

I highly recommend this video. Michael Badnarik is a great teacher, no doubt! I also voted for him in 2004. :D He should be Ron Paul's running mate!

[gerryb]

Even if you do fully understand it, keep in mind that your opponents will point out that even the authors of the document and members of that generation did not adhere to it consistently. ;)

Not just our opponents. I'll be the first one to point out they didn't adhere to it. But it is a good place to start, being the only written social contract we have as law.

[Tonewah]

Voted for Badnarik in '04. The LP national convention was in Atlanta, that year. Badnarik shows up, almost unknown, and gives a rousing speech to bump the favorites.

I'd like to see him on a Ron Paul cabinet. RP could put him in charge of dismantling the Dept. of Energy, as he has experience in that field.

[PaulConventionWV]

How can we spread a message which all of us don't fully understand? I believe we can't.

Language is pretty obviously very important and it matters what words you use when you talk to people and try to educate them. And if you don't fully understand what you're talking about you can't possibly use the right words and so your message is vulnerable to be undermined by propaganda later on.

I strongly believe the following class on the U.S. Constitution should be obligatory for anyone claiming to be a Ron Paul supporter:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUXGOqO1r0Youtube playlist with all 43 parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s&feature=rellist&playnext=1&list=PL5606CA9DC5740038


If you believe I'm wrong and this isn't important, please, at least watch this:
(most important part starts at the 6:40 mark in part1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of586VeeqSs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjbIfzCEEI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ5LnjVJcFc

p.s.: I realize this has probably been posted before, but I was just reminded by a post on DP how important it is and felt like I should remind everyone about it.

Never heard of this guy, but I already love him. Thanks for the source! So far, I agree one hundred percent!

[PaulConventionWV]

Evidence exists on several threads that some serious discussion about the Constitution is needed.

I agree. I think you are sorely mistaken on your understanding of the Constitution, for example.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't know...I've read "Good to Be King" several times and it has a lot of holes in it. I'm not saying it's not a good introduction to the COnstitution (and I owe my support of Ron Paul which dates back to 2005 to it), but there are some dubious claims in the book. I know Badnarik used his book as the text for his Constitution class, so I don't know how many of those dubious claims make it into those videos, but the book claims (among other things) that if you possess the "real" title to your car (a "Manufacturer's certificate of origin") you do not need license plates to drive it, and that the government, banks and car dealerships are all engaged in a big conspiracy to prevent people from ever possessing this document so as to force all vehicle owners to register their property (for future confiscation, if the overall tone of the book is to be believed)

He's actually right about that. Don't blind yourself to the truth just from a knee-jerk reaction. Study the evidence.

[willwash]

He's actually right about that. Don't blind yourself to the truth just from a knee-jerk reaction. Study the evidence.

I consider myself fairly well-informed, but the only place I've ever heard/seen or read of that is in Badnarik's book...and it's a fairly bold claim. You'd think others, like Russo, Alex Jones etc would have brought this up.

[willwash]

I also don't buy the tax protester argument, which Badnarik heavily advocates. I hate the 16th Amendment, but I do believe it does grant Congress the authority to enact a personal income tax.

[donnay]

I also don't buy the tax protester argument, which Badnarik heavily advocates. I hate the 16th Amendment, but I do believe it does grant Congress the authority to enact a personal income tax.

The 16th amendment was not properly ratified.

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/
http://www.givemeliberty.org/features/taxes/notratified.htm


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198

Also watch: Freedom to Fascism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUpZhhbKUBo

[Justinjj1]

I also voted for Badnarik in 2004.

[Danke]

I also don't buy the tax protester argument, which Badnarik heavily advocates. I hate the 16th Amendment, but I do believe it does grant Congress the authority to enact a personal income tax.

I don't know what Badnarik's take on the 16th A. But it does not "grant Congress the authority to enact a personal income tax." They already had it. It was a clarification on a tax that already existed but a portion of which was declared unconstitutional because of the Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Company case.

[Czolgosz]

I also voted for him in 2004. :D


Me too.

[Czolgosz]

I think a Constitutional discussion/lesson is paramount to our effort. Do we have a member scholar who could possibly put up weekly classrooms?


I got this link from one of the other forum members, sorry, I don't recall who has this in their siggy; It's Carl Miller, and it's great info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-zHrNPfkQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q35DoJroTYY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9fdSirNinQ&feature=related

[AFPVet]

I have taken formal classes on the U.S. Constitution. In order to truly understand the Constitution in the historical context, you have to understand the people who wrote it... the time in which it was written. It is quite an interesting story... our Founders were quite philosophical and they liked their drink lol. One thing is for certain, the Constitution was written to guard against the kind of incremental tyranny which we face today.

[Danke]

I got this link from one of the other forum members, sorry, I don't recall who has this in their siggy; It's Carl Miller, and it's great info.


\/ Your Right to Travel.

[Pericles]

He's actually right about that. Don't blind yourself to the truth just from a knee-jerk reaction. Study the evidence.

That is very good advice and I urge you to take it.

[Anti Federalist]

I have taken formal classes on the U.S. Constitution. In order to truly understand the Constitution in the historical context, you have to understand the people who wrote it... the time in which it was written. It is quite an interesting story... our Founders were quite philosophical and they liked their drink lol. One thing is for certain, the Constitution was written to guard against the kind of incremental tyranny which we face today.

Which leads to only one painful conclusion:

The Constitution is a failure.

[Danke]

Which leads to only one painful conclusion:

The Constitution is a failure.

I suppose Lysander Spooner was your great great granddaddy now too?

[RabbitMan]

I have taken formal classes on the U.S. Constitution. In order to truly understand the Constitution in the historical context, you have to understand the people who wrote it... the time in which it was written. It is quite an interesting story... our Founders were quite philosophical and they liked their drink lol. One thing is for certain, the Constitution was written to guard against the kind of incremental tyranny which we face today.

What would you propose to understand the historical context? My girlfriend and I have been reading "Empire of Liberty" which covers the first two and a half decades of the Republic and it is written incredibly well; it's in the Oxford American History set. They also have one on the Revolution which we plan to read next, and another on the first four decades of the 19th century. Any other suggestions?

[Anti Federalist]

I suppose Lysander Spooner was your great great granddaddy now too?

Why must I suffer the petty slings and barbs directed at me from the P-Nut gallery?

http://boourns.cjb.net/pics/2e16b0p.jpg.gif

[pcosmar]

Which leads to only one painful conclusion:

The Constitution is a failure.

NOPE
The people failed to enforce the Constitution.

[Travlyr]

NOPE
The people failed to enforce the Constitution.

Agreed. The power of secrecy was the enemy of the people. The Constitution is not dead, yet.

[Anti Federalist]

NOPE
The people failed to enforce the Constitution.

But the Founders were well aware of the failure of people to be vigilant and oppose tyranny.


and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

I would have supposed that somehow this would have been addressed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still in full favor of enforcing the constitution as written, as it is the law of the land.

Certainly returning to constitutional law would be light years ahead of where we are now.

Yet, the fact remains of the fatal flaws in the constitution as written, specifically, enforcing and "interpretation".

If we are successful at our efforts, these flaws must be addressed so our great grandchildren don't have to go through it all over again.

[flightlesskiwi]

and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

there is an immense amount of hope in that quote. and the hope doesn't rest on the document. it rests with the people.




If we are successful at our efforts, these flaws must be addressed so our great grandchildren don't have to go through it all over again.

the flaws need to be addressed with our children and grandchildren. it starts with fathers perceiving and admitting their mistakes to their sons, picking up and pressing forward.

if those flaws are not driven into the light and pointed out as mistakes that were made by the people, rather than pointed out to be the mistakes of the document, the cycle will begin again.

imho, the focus has been lost. this culture demands that in order to declare that one generation "has it better" than the previous, a certain materialistic, tangible, comfortable lifestyle must be met. this is the easy route.

i say that in order for my children to "have it better" than myself, i must teach them the principles of liberty, private property, the rule of law, hard work, self-reliance, and a whole host of intangible ideas that take hours, days, weeks and years to teach because they all require words backed up by actions. actions that, many times, go completely against the grain of what the prevailing culture considers appropriate.

and that's where fortitude comes in.

a document cannot save us. a document cannot enslave us. a document can only be used as a tool to do either.

it starts with us.

[Pericles]

To expect the Constitution to protect us against the evils of government, without any effort on my part, is to expect my firearms to protect me against land pirates without any effort on my part. The nation's founders left us the tools to preserve our liberty. Many of our fellow citizens and our ancestors have chosen to trade their liberty for some sort of perceived security.

It is our task to reclaim that lost liberty for ourselves and our posterity, and before I turn out the lights, I will see several states returned to freedom. Let those who are not convinced of the correctness of our cause to continue to live in states governed by their passions, while we put the shackles back on the federal beast, that our founders forged in steel.

[Anti Federalist]

Couldn't agree more.

Which is why I'm torn between the highs and lows, the ups and downs of this struggle like a bipolar maniac with no meds.

For every uptick in awareness that gives me hope, a story like this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?323071-I-give-up-I-really-do.-This-is-hopeless...) comes along to knock my dick back in the dirt and makes me wonder why even bother?

If our fellow citizens hold the key in their hands, well, I'm concerned, to say the least.


there is an immense amount of hope in that quote. and the hope doesn't rest on the document. it rests with the people.



the flaws need to be addressed with our children and grandchildren. it starts with fathers perceiving and admitting their mistakes to their sons, picking up and pressing forward.

if those flaws are not driven into the light and pointed out as mistakes that were made by the people, rather than pointed out to be the mistakes of the document, the cycle will begin again.

imho, the focus has been lost. this culture demands that in order to declare that one generation "has it better" than the previous, a certain materialistic, tangible, comfortable lifestyle must be met. this is the easy route.

i say that in order for my children to "have it better" than myself, i must teach them the principles of liberty, private property, the rule of law, hard work, self-reliance, and a whole host of intangible ideas that take hours, days, weeks and years to teach because they all require words backed up by actions. actions that, many times, go completely against the grain of what the prevailing culture considers appropriate.

and that's where fortitude comes in.

a document cannot save us. a document cannot enslave us. a document can only be used as a tool to do either.

it starts with us.

[AGRP]

Yet, the fact remains of the fatal flaws in the constitution as written, specifically, enforcing and "interpretation".


Questions of all "interpretations" are to be erred on the side of liberty / states.

[PierzStyx]

Yet, the fact remains of the fatal flaws in the constitution as written, specifically, enforcing and "interpretation".

If we are successful at our efforts, these flaws must be addressed so our great grandchildren don't have to go through it all over again.

The flaws aren't in the Constitution, though I am not saying it is a perfect document. I think the real flaws are in the people. We allow our leaders to violate their oaths abandon the Constitution. In fact the majority of Americans probably ENCOURAGE it. We elect leaders that reflect who we are. If the real flaws are anywhere, they are in us.

[Czolgosz]

\/ Your Right to Travel.

Danke, Danke. It was you!

[hazek]

The flaws aren't in the Constitution, though I am not saying it is a perfect document. I think the real flaws are in the people. We allow our leaders to violate their oaths abandon the Constitution. In fact the majority of Americans probably ENCOURAGE it. We elect leaders that reflect who we are. If the real flaws are anywhere, they are in us.

What about our human nature?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0F2f-O28nU

[Contumacious]

The U.S. Constitution - Do you really understand it?

Unfortunately, most of the government "education" victims don't. Otherwise they would know that 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue IS the problem. Not Wall Street.

.

[Travlyr]

Unfortunately, most of the government "education" victims don't. Otherwise they would know that 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue IS the problem. Not Wall Street.

.

Counterfeiters are the liberty thieves. They are a bunch of dishonest jerks. That's why Ron Paul wants us to return to honest dealing with each other using sound money.

[Pericles]

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."

Samuel Adams

[donnay]

But the Founders were well aware of the failure of people to be vigilant and oppose tyranny.



I would have supposed that somehow this would have been addressed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still in full favor of enforcing the constitution as written, as it is the law of the land.

Certainly returning to constitutional law would be light years ahead of where we are now.

Yet, the fact remains of the fatal flaws in the constitution as written, specifically, enforcing and "interpretation".

If we are successful at our efforts, these flaws must be addressed so our great grandchildren don't have to go through it all over again.


The fatal flaws reside in us--not the constitution. It isn't easy to over come the obstacles of being deliberately dumbed down, but many of us have--including you. Part of the dumbing down was to allow us to think the constitution needs interpretations. As generations went on, the English language was bastardized for a reason. The average person doesn't understand the Bible, or even Charles Dickens, for that matter. Is it any wonder why people rely on a Lawyers, Judges and Clergy for their interpretations?

Many of us have lived relatively easy, we put ourselves in comfort zones and become complacent, and enjoy all the conveniences. One concern Thomas Jefferson had was, "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground." He knew if people became too complacent, that government would become too big and our liberties would diminish. Even Barry Goldwater said; “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.”

One of my favorite Anti-Federalist (besides you) is Patrick Henry. Here is one of many of my favorite speeches he made:

"It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope and pride. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775)

My signature also has another great quote by Patrick Henry:

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” ~Patrick Henry

Have faith my dear, all is not lost. Thank God we have Ron Paul in the trenches, but he alone cannot do it all, it is our duty too!

[Pericles]

I don't know...I've read "Good to Be King" several times and it has a lot of holes in it. I'm not saying it's not a good introduction to the COnstitution (and I owe my support of Ron Paul which dates back to 2005 to it), but there are some dubious claims in the book. I know Badnarik used his book as the text for his Constitution class, so I don't know how many of those dubious claims make it into those videos, but the book claims (among other things) that if you possess the "real" title to your car (a "Manufacturer's certificate of origin") you do not need license plates to drive it, and that the government, banks and car dealerships are all engaged in a big conspiracy to prevent people from ever possessing this document so as to force all vehicle owners to register their property (for future confiscation, if the overall tone of the book is to be believed)

Yeah, especially with stuff like claiming a Certificate of title is just a piece of paper, and not evidence of ownership, while somehow the piece of paper that is a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin is.

[PaulConventionWV]

I consider myself fairly well-informed, but the only place I've ever heard/seen or read of that is in Badnarik's book...and it's a fairly bold claim. You'd think others, like Russo, Alex Jones etc would have brought this up.

I've heard it before. Kent Hovind talked about it.

[Czolgosz]

Something causing turmoil in my head, as I study our founding, the Constitution, et al is; if something is unConstitutional and We the People have the power, why has not a team of scholarly people attacked this stuff in court?

[fisharmor]

the flaws need to be addressed with our children and grandchildren. it starts with fathers perceiving and admitting their mistakes to their sons, picking up and pressing forward.

And I hope that there isn't a person among those who even partially understand the constitution who believe that public schools are a good idea.
We can not compete ideologically with an opposition which controls our childrens lives for, in some cases, twice the amount of time that we do.


Questions of all "interpretations" are to be erred on the side of liberty / states.
Unless, of course, that issue is immigration.
:rolleyes: