Support for Online Poker

[TheEngineer]

Hi all. This is my first post here, but I have been a Ron Paul supporter since late last year. I've posted regularly about this at www.twoplustwo.com and at other sites. I started supporting him when he was one of the few politicians to support my right to play poker and other games on the Internet. Is this the most important issue confronting us today? Perhaps not, but it is important to many poker players and freedom lovers, and it’s important to Dr. Paul too. He has often spoken out in our favor. And, he found time last week to meet with me and with some fellow poker players (which was awesome):

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x223/TheEngineer2007/MeetingwithRonPaul1.jpg
Victor Ramdin, Andy Bloch, Rep. Ron Paul, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and me

Federal restrictions on Internet poker is the ultimate expression of the nanny-state attitudes so prevalent in Washington D.C. Perhaps that’s why we should all fight hard for this, as Rep. Paul has. I’ve been fighting, and I hope you’ll all join the fight.

[M.Bellmore]

All we are doing is sending $$ overseas. Seems stupid.

[TheEngineer]

Do you want to stand up for your rights and support this important Ron Paul cosponsored legislation, but have only 60 seconds? Click this link (http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co), either type your info or click your AutoFill button, then click "submit". You'll send a letter to both of your Senators and to your Congressman. It takes literally one minute!

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Fight for Online Poker!! Weeks of 11/5 & 11/12

A few of us fighting back on other thread are doing the following actions. If you'd like, please join us by doing the following this week and next:

1. We have one more month to get our UIGEA comments submitted. We have until Dec. 12th, so let's make a lot of comments between now and then. This hasn't shown up on the Focus on the Family action plan (released a couple of days ago), so we may have a head-start here. Please go to https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=293 for instructions on submitting your comments.

2. As a result of the Fly-In and our hard work this year, we have good mommentum now. If you haven't written to Congress in the past 30 days, please do so. The Poker Players Alliance letter is at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co; sending that takes less than one minute. Regardless of when you last called, let's call this week and next. Phone numbers are at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/dbq/officials.

3. If you have ANY connection to MA, please contact Gov. Patrick and tell him you won't tolerate a ban on Internet poker. Also, contact Barney Frank for help. He is powerful in the Mass. Democratic party.

4. If you have ANY connection to KY, please contact soon-to-be governor-elect Steve Beshear and ask him to ensure that Internet poker is not excluded in his proposal to legalize casino gaming in the state.

5. Regularly write to newspapers and post to blogs. A few posts here and there can start to put us in the national zeitgeist.


Thanks everyone! :)

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Contact Info:

Your senators: www.senate.gov (http://www.senate.gov)
Your representative: www.house.gov (http://www.house.gov)

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV)
528 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-3542
http://reid.senate.gov/contact/email_form.cfm

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
United States Senate
361-A Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-2541
http://mcconnell.senate.gov/contact_form.cfm

Michael Duncan (from Kentucky)
Chairman, Republican National Committee
Republican National Committee
310 First Street, SE
Washington, D.C. 20003
email: Chairman@gop.com

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-0100
http://speaker.house.gov/contact/
email: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

Rep. Steny Hoyer
House Majority Leader
H-107 Capitol Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-3130

Rep. John Boehner (R-OH)
Office of the Republican Leader
H-204 The Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-4000
Fax: (202) 225-5117

Pres. Bush: comments@whitehouse.gov

Horse tracks: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12335695 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12335695&an=0&page=0#Post12335695)

Democratic National Committee: http://www.democrats.org/contact.html

Letters to the editor, Washington Post: letters@washpost.com
Letters to the editor, New York Times: letters@nytimes.com

[TheEngineer]

All we are doing is sending $$ overseas. Seems stupid.

You're right about that. If we change the law, we'll have U.S. based sites, and overseas money will be coming in instead of our money going out.

[DeadheadForPaul]

yay poker players! I got friends who play online. Protect it!

[TheEngineer]

I met with my Congressman's aide while in D.C. Here's my letter to her:

November 3, 2007

***** ********
Legislative Assistant
Office of the Honorable Geoff Davis
United States House of Representatives
1108 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-1704

Dear *******:

Thank you for taking the time to meet with my fellow poker players and me on October 24 during the Poker Players Alliance Fly-In. I was impressed with your knowledge of this issue. It was certainly a pleasure meeting with you.

I do have a couple of observations for your consideration. Rep. Davis and you sent me a letter a few months ago in response to my concerns regarding the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). In it, you stated that Internet gaming is not legal. However, federal case law has consistently held that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting (1). As for state law, Kentucky, like the majority of states, has no law prohibiting Internet poker. As a result, many offshore sites continue to legally offer Internet poker within the U.S. In fact, sites that left the U.S. market with the passage of UIGEA, most notably Doyle Brunson’s site, Doyle’s Room, are returning to the American market (2). Unfortunately, U.S.-based sites have been prohibited from opening under pressure from the Justice Department. This has resulted in the exact opposite of the ideal situation, from a U.S. perspective. Rather than U.S.-based sites, subject to U.S. laws and regulations, serving the world, offshore sites serve us.

My next observation concerns the recent Annenberg Internet gaming study. You commented that this study showed a decline in Internet poker play by those deemed by the study authors to be “college-age youths” (defined in the study as 18-22; please note that 100% of these “youths” are adults and 40% of them are 21 years of age or older). The study is actually quite fascinating. First of all, the pre-UIGEA percentage of college-age “youths” playing cards for money on the Internet at least weekly was only 5.8%. This is hardly an epidemic. More interesting was the pre-UIGEA rate of Internet gaming by minors – 0.0%! Seems the industry’s age controls are working. If Rep. Davis' concern is poker playing by young adults, this could clearly be remedied at the state level with appropriate legislation. Sites honor these limits already, as evidenced by the very study touted by Focus on the Family!

The Annenberg study also discusses problem gaming. Unfortunately, the study tended to bias the extent of the problem, in my opinion, by asking questions any winning poker player would answer affirmatively. For example, the question “(have you) often found yourself thinking about gambling” would get many affirmative responses from poker players with no compulsive behaviors. After all, poker is a game of skill. We do think about strategy and how to improve. People engaged in other hobbies and professions think about their activities as well. As an engineer, I often think of better ways to improve the ***** design (the **** for the **** program, which I thank Rep. Davis for supporting). Am I a “problem engineer”? If the issue at hand is problem gambling, let’s address this with industry funded treatment for compulsive behaviors and with self-exclusion lists. The industry has consistently offered this. This would be far more effective than federal prohibition, in my humble opinion.

You also mentioned terrorist financing. I do wonder how many liberties we’re expected to surrender in the name of fighting terrorism. It is especially troubling in this instance, as there has never been a documented case of terrorist financing via online poker. Sites already have controls in place to prevent use of sites for illegally moving money from one party to another, and these were proven to be effective at the June 8 House Financial Services Committee hearing on Internet gambling. The irony here is that explicit legalization would clearly improve the situation here…U.S.-based sites would follow U.S. law by definition, and offshore sites could be compelled to report transactions exceeding specific thresholds as a condition of licensing requirements. Again, we are clearly looking at the law of unintended consequences at work.

Finally, I wish to remind you that Gov. Fletcher will lose in a landslide on Tuesday. His demonization of gambling did absolutely nothing to improve his weak poll numbers. If Kentuckians are not opposed to physical casinos offering games of chance in the commonwealth, or to a gubernatorial candidate who supports them, do they care about adults playing poker on their own computers in their own homes? It does not appear that they do.

I do feel Focus on the Family is overplaying their hand on this issue. The people of Kentucky’s Fourth District are not anti-poker, nor do they want big government nanny-statish censorship of the Internet. I personally do not see anything conservative about big government prohibitions on Internet poker, nor do most of Rep. Davis’ fellow Republicans. I urge you to recommend that Rep. Davis support either HR 2046, the Internet Gambling Regulation and Enforcement Act of 2007 or HR 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,


TheEngineer


-----------------

1. In re MasterCard Int’l, et al., 132 F. Supp. 2d 468, (E.D. La. 2001), upheld on appeal by the Fifth Circuit – 2002 C05 518 (USCA5, 2002)
2. www.doylesroom.com (http://www.doylesroom.com), statement on main page, effective October 19th, 2007
3. http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/Downloads/Releases/CardPlayingDeclinesoct18version.pdf, October 18, 2007

[TheEngineer]

yay poker players! I got friends who play online. Protect it!

Thanks! Even nonplayers should wish to protect every freedom we can.

[ItsTime]

I work closely with Rafe Furst and Phil Gordon Ron Paul is the buzz... I dont know if they support him but they know about his work to help online poker stay legal :)

[Ron Paul Fan]

Awesome. Lederer, Fergueson, Andy Bloch. All of those guys are rich and can max donate! They can also tell their rich poker friends! If Ron Paul picks up enough steam I bet they'll come on board. What do those guys probably care the most about? Their online poker businesses staying legal and low taxes! So who's their man? Ron Paul!

[STA654]

Ferguson looks like Guy Fawkes.

[dircha]

Thank you very much for your support!

What I find very disgusting is that the ban on online gambling had everything to do with brick and mortar gambling outfits lobbying the government to pass legislation protecting their monopolies.

This ban is corporate welfare at its worst.

I don't gamble myself, but the hell if I'm going to support the government telling me how I can and can not spend my money.

[PatriotG]

I started a thread about this a few days ago

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=29959

Still Pisses me off from time to time.
not even the fact that its virtually impossible to play,
but how the politicians sneak it through!

Bring Back Online Poker....Yeah Baby.

PatriotG

[terlinguatx]

...

[bbachtung]

Freedom brings us all together, regardless of how we want to exercise our freedom. Welcome aboard.

[TheEngineer]

Awesome. Lederer, Fergueson, Andy Bloch. All of those guys are rich and can max donate! They can also tell their rich poker friends! If Ron Paul picks up enough steam I bet they'll come on board. What do those guys probably care the most about? Their online poker businesses staying legal and low taxes! So who's their man? Ron Paul!


I can't vouch for their votes, but I can tell you they support Ron Paul's position on this issue 100%. It was an awesome meeting.

[TheEngineer]

I started a thread about this a few days ago

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=29959

Still Pisses me off from time to time.
not even the fact that its virtually impossible to play,
but how the politicians sneak it through!

Bring Back Online Poker....Yeah Baby.

PatriotG


Nice thread. I'd not have started this one had I seen that one. Hopefully we'll all push back against nonsense like laws against Internet poker.

Everyone...please visit http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co and send out letters to your representative and both senators. It takes just one minute.

[TheEngineer]

Freedom brings us all together, regardless of how we want to exercise our freedom. Welcome aboard.

Thanks!

[DJ RP]

WOW!! BEST PICTURE EVER!

Chris Ferguson? Howerd Lederer? Just hanging with RP...

I hope SO BADLY the poker players alliance give him an official endorsement!

[Jaykzo]

Wow, "Jesus" supports Ron?

Very cool! I can understand why these high-stakes gamblers would want the IRS to be phased out.

[Badger4Paul]

If not for poker, I wouldn't have been able to max out my donations. Seems fair.

[Mandrik]

WOOT! With Jesus (Chris Ferguson) on our side, we CAN'T lose! As a huge poker fan I love this pic. :D

[ItsTime]

Just donated my nightly winnings... You have to LOVE freedom


If not for poker, I wouldn't have been able to max out my donations. Seems fair.

[TheEngineer]

I work closely with Rafe Furst and Phil Gordon Ron Paul is the buzz... I dont know if they support him but they know about his work to help online poker stay legal :)


Ron Paul is hugely popular in the poker community, to be sure. I'm written about him a lot on 2+2 and on the PPA website.

[TheEngineer]

WOW!! BEST PICTURE EVER!

Chris Ferguson? Howerd Lederer? Just hanging with RP...

I hope SO BADLY the poker players alliance give him an official endorsement!

Thanks! Due to the structure of the PPA, we won't be able to endorse anyone (I'm on the Board of Directors). He is spoken of quite highly in the members' articles that are published on PPA's site, as he is one of our biggest supporters in Congress. I write two: https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=237 and https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=289 .

[DJ RP]

Thanks for everything you're doing dude and writing those articles that'll help everyone get a better understanding of which candidates actually are on the side of freedom of poker.

Is there anyway the PPA can contact their full list of 800k+ members letting them know it's important to vote for a pro-poker candidate in the upcoming primaries and giving them links to those articles?

[TheEngineer]

Thanks for everything you're doing dude and writing those articles that'll help everyone get a better understanding of which candidates actually are on the side of freedom of poker.

Is there anyway the PPA can contact their full list of 800k+ members letting them know it's important to vote for a pro-poker candidate in the upcoming primaries and giving them links to those articles?

Thanks! We're all fighting for our freedoms. I thank you as well.

We recently sent out a newsletter pointing them to this information. Also, 100 of us just went to D.C. (the picture in the OP was of that event) to tell Congress we want our rights. Our article recaping the event is at https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=352 . MSM articles are at : https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=342 .

I think they're starting to realize that pandering to big government social cons isn't the way to electoral victory anymore.

[TheEngineer]

WOOT! With Jesus (Chris Ferguson) on our side, we CAN'T lose! As a huge poker fan I love this pic. :D

Thanks! :D The meeting was awesome, and I was very happy when he stood up and asked if we wanted pictures.

[TheEngineer]

The pro-Internet poker letter to Congress I mentioned is at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co. Again, even if you don't play, please send it in support of freedom and liberty from government tyranny. It will take only two minutes (the site will automatically customize it for you with your name and name of the recipient, and it allows you to modify it if you so choose)! Here's the text of the letter:

Dear [Recipient]:

I am writing as a constituent, voter, and an avid poker player to ask for your support.

Specifically, I hope you will support any and all bills to clarify last year’s Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA), to expressly exempt the great game of poker from UIGEA’s onerous restrictions.

Poker is a uniquely American game of skill and a great American pastime. Presidents such as FDR and Harry Truman, Chief Justices such as William Rehnquist and William Howard Taft, members of Congress, generals, and average Americans have enjoyed poker for more than 150 years. It is an honorable game. I am proud to play it, and there is no reason for the federal government to treat a poker game that adults play against others online any differently than a Friday night poker game played around a kitchen table.

A national survey by Harris Interactive (June 5-12, 2007) confirms that sixty-nine percent of the general public agree that poker is a game of skill, while only seventeen percent disagree. Other polls have shown strong support for keeping Internet poker legal. And, the Poker Players Alliance, a national nonprofit organization of poker players and enthusiasts, now has more than 800,000 members! We are all energized and we will vote for poker.

Unfortunately, to my disappointment and contrary to the desires of the American people, my right to play poker online was inadvertently restricted with the passage of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA). While it is clear that UIGEA does not apply to Internet poker nationwide (federal case law has consistently held that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting, and very few states have any laws against Internet poker), this legislation has nonetheless had a chilling effect on my ability to access and patronize these legal businesses. I ask that you help rectify this situation by supporting clarifying legislation.

I hope you will support both HR 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act and HR 2046, the Internet Gambling Regulation and Enforcement Act. HR 2610 clarifies federal law by expressly exempting games of skill like poker from UIGEA. HR 2046, the Internet Gambling Regulation and Enforcement Act, regulates online poker via stringent licensing regulations for poker site operators. Both bills have rigorous safeguards against underage and compulsive gambling.

These safeguards will work -- the June 8, 2007 House Financial Services Committee hearing on Internet gaming proved conclusively that Internet poker can be effectively regulated. Note that neither bill forces any state to permit online poker; states can opt out if they wish.

Online poker will continue to exist with or without the participation of the United States. We are losing our opportunity to control the risks of the online world with reasonable regulation, as well as the opportunities for U.S. companies to operate sites for either the domestic or the international markets. This is costing America jobs and tax revenue.

What’s important to me is your support for restoring my rights. Please respond to this letter and let me know if you will support HR 2610 and 2046. I will be watching your actions on this issue closely. I hope that I -- and my eight hundred thousand fellow Poker Players Alliance members -- can count on your support.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Your Signature]

[TheEngineer]

Wow, "Jesus" supports Ron?

Very cool! I can understand why these high-stakes gamblers would want the IRS to be phased out.

Definitely! :D

[terlinguatx]

...

[NewGuy]

I saw a link on the 2+2 poker forum to this website, and it certainly appears that Ron Paul is only presidential candidate I've seen who is a vocal advocate for our rights to play poker. I just wanted to second what has already been said about the ridiculous hypocrisy of the proposed bill in Mass that would "protect" us by making playing poker online a felony (while at the same time adding casinos taxed by the state, of course)

If you agree and don't think the government should decide what's "best" for adults who want to play poker in the privacy of their own homes, please take a minute to the contact the Mass. Governor's office and let them know how you feel about having your personal freedoms eroded.

web form
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=gov3utilities&sid=Agov3&U=Agov3_contact_us

Governor's Office of Constituent's Services
617.725.4005
888.870.7770 (in state)

[TheEngineer]

Hey, did you see that Paul will be in Vegas in less than two weeks!? www.ronpaul2008.com/events

I might have to go out for that. Get my pic autographed. :D

[Nefertiti]

I am personally opposed to all forms of gambling. But even worse than corporate gambling (which you can choose not to participate in), is government-run gambling, like state lotteries. While we as citizens can choose not to participate in these lotteries as well, we don't have much choice about how those revenues are used. I consider it a violation of my rights that I would have to accept ill-gotten money like this is paying for any government services.

[JoshLowry]

I saw a link on the 2+2 poker forum to this website, and it certainly appears that Ron Paul is only presidential candidate I've seen who is a vocal advocate for our rights to play poker. I just wanted to second what has already been said about the ridiculous hypocrisy of the proposed bill in Mass that would "protect" us by making playing poker online a felony (while at the same time adding casinos taxed by the state, of course)

If you agree and don't think the government should decide what's "best" for adults who want to play poker in the privacy of their own homes, please take a minute to the contact the Mass. Governor's office and let them know how you feel about having your personal freedoms eroded.

web form
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=gov3utilities&sid=Agov3&U=Agov3_contact_us

Governor's Office of Constituent's Services
617.725.4005
888.870.7770 (in state)

Welcome to the forums! This is a great place to organize grassroot efforts for all sorts of causes.

Hopefully you guys stick around. We will need a few poker faces come primary and caucus time. ;)

[TheEngineer]

I am personally opposed to all forms of gambling. But even worse than corporate gambling (which you can choose not to participate in), is government-run gambling, like state lotteries. While we as citizens can choose not to participate in these lotteries as well, we don't have much choice about how those revenues are used. I consider it a violation of my rights that I would have to accept ill-gotten money like this is paying for any government services.

I personally don't think of poker as gambling. Poker is a game of skill where people match wits for money. I personally think gambling without an advantage is foolish. I wouldn't personally do it. However, I don't think the federal government should be in business of keeping people from making foolish decisions. While I understand you don't gamble, do you think the federal government should enact to federal Internet gaming prohibition to be enforced by Internet censorship and by banks deputized by the federal government to comb through your financial record to see if you've dared to spend some of your own money playing online poker?

[iloveronpaul]

This is great! Now my dad will have to support Ron Paul! :D

[TheEngineer]

This is great! Now my dad will have to support Ron Paul! :D

Sweet! :D One more vote.

Also, please see if he, you, and everyone else will write to Congress to support our freedoms. It really does take only a minute. Again, the mailer is at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co . If we get this one freedom, we'll get another, and then another, and so on.

[JoshLowry]

Holy crap, I just now noticed Ron Paul was in that pictured.

Very cool.

[TheEngineer]

Holy crap, I just now noticed Ron Paul was in that pictured.

Very cool.

Thanks. I didn't know until an hour prior to that that we'd get to see Dr. Paul himself. With his schedule, you know he must really care about this issue and all of our other freedoms to meet us in person.

[TheEngineer]

I saw a link on the 2+2 poker forum to this website, and it certainly appears that Ron Paul is only presidential candidate I've seen who is a vocal advocate for our rights to play poker. I just wanted to second what has already been said about the ridiculous hypocrisy of the proposed bill in Mass that would "protect" us by making playing poker online a felony (while at the same time adding casinos taxed by the state, of course)

If you agree and don't think the government should decide what's "best" for adults who want to play poker in the privacy of their own homes, please take a minute to the contact the Mass. Governor's office and let them know how you feel about having your personal freedoms eroded.

web form
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=gov3utilities&sid=Agov3&U=Agov3_contact_us

Governor's Office of Constituent's Services
617.725.4005
888.870.7770 (in state)


There's a great article in today's Boston Globe, at www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/10/internet_gambling_is_a_target_of_patrick_bill

[UCFGavin]

woo jesus!! now if only my boy phil will hop on board.

and i never realized how big lederer was

[TheEngineer]

New Ron Paul ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_ZCEc9bi8

Posetd at the PPA forum site, at http://webringamerica.com/4/pokerplayersalliance/viewforum.php?f=2

[TheEngineer]

woo jesus!! now if only my boy phil will hop on board.

and i never realized how big lederer was

That's true about Lederer. I was surprised when he stood up and he towered over me (as is clearly evidenced in the pic).

[TheEngineer]

The social cons are going too far in the advocacy of big government to force their vision of what America should be. The latest assault on our freedoms, of course, was UIGEA, a bill that purported to ban Internet gaming. Focus on the Family has pushed hard for a national gaming prohibition, of course, because they think our values come from D.C. Like the mullahs in Iran, they look to government to strip us of our freedoms.

A House committee recently held a hearing on Internet poker, at http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=396 (click "video webcast). An amusing dialog occurred between FoF's Tom McClusky and Rep. Steven Cohen of Tennessee (at around 3:33:45 of the video):

[following McClusky's advocacy of a total gaming prohibition in the U.S.]
Rep. Steven Cohen: Is there any fun that you’re for? [laughter in background]
Tom McClusky: Any what?
Rep. Steven Cohen: Fun.
Tom McClusky: Umm...well, we’re for this, and this seems like a lot of fun.
Rep. Steven Cohen: Hearings?
Tom McClusky: [no response...laughter in background]
Rep. Steven Cohen: Good, good.

I'll start calling FoF Foes of Fun! LOL. :-)

[RTsquared]

I wish people would stop telling me how to run my life. Am I not entitled to the right to make my own mistakes?

Your interpretation of FoF is much more...ahem...politically correct than mine. Mine has much to do with copulation with an extremely unkempt member of a particular primate species.

;)

[TheEngineer]

When asked the following


Last year, Congress voted overwhelming to criminalize most forms of Internet gambling. This year some members of Congress are promoting legislation to legalize Internet gambling. If such legislation passed, would you veto it?" [an incorrect statement, by the way...playing wasn't criminalized at all]

by the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling, Mike Huckabee answered "yes"!!!!. Gov. Huckabee was the only candidate to even bother to reply to this piece of big government statism, so here's more evidence that he wants big government control over Americans.

My letter to Mike Huckabee in response.

----- Original Message -----
To: information@explorehuckabee.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:54 PM
Subject: My view of Gov. Huckabee

Dear Governor Huckabee,

I am a lifelong conservative Republican who happens to enjoy a game of Internet poker on occasion. Your response to the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling’s candidate integrity quiz, where you stated that you support a federal prohibition on Internet poker, doesn't sound like the stand of a conservative. Rather, it seems you're for limited government until you find something you want. Then, when that happens, the sky's the limit!

First of all, I feel your position is foolishness. If your concern is compulsive behaviors, gaming is at most addictive to 1% of people, and technology can be used to keep those 1% offline via various exclusion and detection programs. Unfortunately, this won't happen under your big government prohibition plan (which involves snooping in peoples' bank accounts and Internet usage histories). Besides that, it's a question of freedom. Why should the rest of us be prevented from enjoying a game of poker in our own homes?

Your position is nothing but a red herring. It seems you simply don't like Internet poker, so you think it should be banned for everyone. Sorry, but that's not my definition of a conservative.

As you can't trust me to make my own decisions, I cannot trust you to represent me. As such, unless you change your mind, I will not vote for you or support your campaign in any way.

Sincerely,

TheEngineer

[TheEngineer]

We all have a great opportunity to make a stand for individual liberty. The federal government is accepting comments on the proposed UIGEA regulations until Dec. 12th. Ron Paul spoke passionately in opposition to UIGEA prior to its passing. Now we have our chance to speak up! I hope everyone here will consider commenting on the regs.

To comment:

Click here to comment at the FRB site (http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/foia/ElectronicCommentForm.cfm?doc_id=R-1298&doc_ver=1&name=Prohibition%20on%20Funding%20of%20Unlawful%20 Internet%20Gambling&date=20071001a)
Click here to comment at the Treasury Dept site (http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main). Select "DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY*" at line 2 (the circled "2"), click submit, then click the comment icon to right of the UIGEA proposed rule. You can read the draft regulations here as well.

To review sumbitted comments:

Clck here to view comments made to the Federal Reserve (http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/foia/index.cfm?doc_id=R%2D1298&doc_ver=1)
Click here to read UIGEA regulations comments at the Treasury Dept site (http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main). Select "DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY*", click submit, then click the link to the far left of the UIGEA proposed rule ("TREAS-DO-2007-0015").

The Poker Players Alliance has put together some talking points on the regs, at https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=293 . They are:


1. The proposed regulations should be modified to clarify that they don’t cover games predominantly determined by skill, such as poker, bridge, mahjong and backgammon. Section 5362(1)(a) of UIGEA defines a bet or wager as “the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game subject to chance,…” “Subject to chance” can be interpreted in a variety of ways, but in a gambling context it should reasonably be taken to mean games like roulette or slots where players bet against “the house” and success is determined by chance. Poker players compete, not against the house, but against each other, and the success of a player over any significant time interval is determined by that players’ skill.

2. The regulators must define what is and isn’t “unlawful Internet gambling.” The federal and state laws governing Internet gambling are very ambiguous -- nearly all of them were written before the advent of the Internet, and it is not clear how they apply to Internet gaming. In the proposed rule, the regulators emphasize that it is not their intention to clarify this question, because to do so would require them to examine the laws of every state with respect to every gaming modality. Yet that is exactly what they are requiring every bank and payment system to do individually.

3. The regulators should refrain from implementing the regulations until the U.S. resolves its international trade disputes. The World Trade Organization has found the U.S. to be out of compliance with its obligations under the General Agreement on Trade in Services because of its attempts at prohibiting Internet gambling. This is likely to cost the U.S. economy billions of dollars in lost market share and export opportunities. The U.S. government is in negotiations with its trading partners over this matter. Inasmuch as these regulations arguably make that situation worse, the regulators should hold off on finalizing the regulations until the U.S. can resolve its international trade obligations.

4. The proposed regulations should not infringe on personal privacy. UIGEA deputizes banks and payment systems and turns them into the Internet morality police. These regulations should not compel banks to scrutinize the private transactions of individual poker players and others. To do so is hostile to the personal and financial privacy of every American with a credit card or checking account.

5. The UIGEA and the enforcing regulations should not apply to Internet poker nationwide. Federal case law has consistently held that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting and very few states have any laws against Internet poker. These regulations should be clear to only block those transactions which are in fact against the law. Games of skill which are not outlawed under current federal law – such as poker, chess, bridge and majong -- should be exempt from the UIGEA and the regulations.

Thanks! :D

[TheEngineer]

My latest comment submittal:


November 22, 2007

Jennifer J. Johnson
Secretary, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
20th Street and Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20551

Dear Secretary Johnson:

I am writing in regard to the proposed regulations (Docket No. R-1298) implementing the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA). It appears that the regulations as written would likely lead to overblocking of legal transactions, as was acknowledged by the authors of the regulations. This overblocking would result in federal usurpation of the right of the states to control gaming within their borders. As such, I ask that the regulations be modified to eliminate this unintended consequence of this legislation.

During the November 14th House Judiciary Committee’s Hearing on Establishing Consistent Enforcement Policies in the Context of Online Wagers, UIGEA proponent Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) stated that he favors leaving gaming law under the purview of the states. He said (while addressing the issue of Internet poker):

“That is the whole point of the legislation that was passed, to enable individual states to enforce their laws regarding the laws that they have in those states.”

It is clear that UIGEA was intended only to enforce existing federal and state laws, not to create a federal prohibition on Internet poker and other online non-sports gaming via ambiguous regulations. Unfortunately, the regulations as written do not give sufficient direction to financial institutions as to the types of transactions they are to prohibit. As a result, banks will likely block legal transactions.

A primary problem area is interstate Internet poker. Federal case law is relatively clear in this matter – per appeals court decisions in re MasterCard International Inc. and other cases, the Wire Act covers only sports betting. There is no other federal law banning interstate Internet poker. At the state level, only a handful of states prohibit Internet poker. As such, the regulations should be careful to not impact Internet poker in states that have chosen to not pass laws prohibiting its residents from playing Internet poker.

To preserve the rights of the states to determine what gaming they wish to permit within their states, I ask that the regulations specify that state laws enforced by UIGEA must be unambiguous in their application to the Internet and to the specific types of gaming banned by that state. Additionally, states desiring federal assistance in enforcing Internet gaming restrictions should be required to request this assistance in writing from the Secretary of the Treasury.

Our financial institutions deserve to know exactly what they are required to prevent, and our states should continue to have the right to choose what types of gaming they permit within their borders.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

TheEngineer

[McDermit]

I stopped playing when my 2 fave sites stopped allowing US players. :(

[PatriotOne]

LOL...I don't know whether to be more jealous of you guys meeting Ron Paul or Ron Paul meeting you guys. Texas Hold Em is my other vice (only to be taken over by my current Ron Paul obsession).

If you guys are not all ready All-In on the donation front (checking donor list now), I'd like to make a suggestion that you rally the poker players to donate on the next December 16th money bomb. It's going to be huge and I would love you guys be part of what is going to be yet another historical event.

http://www.teaparty07.com/

[PatriotOne]

Speaking of gambling on Ron....Sportsbook put up a line (over/under $ 5 Mil) on the RP Dec. 16th Money Bomb.

Ron Paul a Bigger Bet than the Patriots (dated 11/21/07)

http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-112107.html

[literatim]

Why don't we advertise on some of these poker websites?

[uglyowl]

I too have come from the online poker world and a thrilled to see a "Republican" who really is for limited government. Good luck, I will be reading up on him some more and be making a donation. I really hope he makes a run, he is the type of politician this country needs.

[TheEngineer]

I wish people would stop telling me how to run my life. Am I not entitled to the right to make my own mistakes?

Your interpretation of FoF is much more...ahem...politically correct than mine. Mine has much to do with copulation with an extremely unkempt member of a particular primate species.

;)

:D

[TheEngineer]

I stopped playing when my 2 fave sites stopped allowing US players. :(

Aren't we all safer as a result? :confused:

Seriously, these people who want to use government to control our behavior need a new hobby....something that involves them worrying about improving themselves and their own families and not about how to control you and me.

[brandon]

I played on Full Tilt this morning for the first time in about a year. It is one of the only sites till accepting US players. Depositing and withdrawing money is a HUGE hassle.

I try taking about RP in the rooms as much as possible

[TheEngineer]

LOL...I don't know whether to be more jealous of you guys meeting Ron Paul or Ron Paul meeting you guys. Texas Hold Em is my other vice (only to be taken over by my current Ron Paul obsession).

If you guys are not all ready All-In on the donation front (checking donor list now), I'd like to make a suggestion that you rally the poker players to donate on the next December 16th money bomb. It's going to be huge and I would love you guys be part of what is going to be yet another historical event.

http://www.teaparty07.com/


Thanks! :) It was great meeting with him. I've been a supporter of Rep. Paul since even before he declared his candidacy, so to see him gaining steam is very gratifying.

I cannot speak for the other guys (though it's obvious from the picture that they had a great chance to hear what he'll do for our freedoms), but I'll certainly donate on the 16th.

[TheEngineer]

Why don't we advertise on some of these poker websites?

That's definitely something to consider. Ron Paul is very popular with online players.

[TheEngineer]

I too have come from the online poker world and a thrilled to see a "Republican" who really is for limited government. Good luck, I will be reading up on him some more and be making a donation. I really hope he makes a run, he is the type of politician this country needs.

Welcome! Thanks for posting. :D

These big government conservatives opened a real can of worms when they tried to stop us from playing poker. They'll hear from all of us at the voting booth next year!

[ghemminger]

This was a great thread - many friends and RP supporters I know play poker online daily. I often talk about it on my show...any ideas to reach out to this community I'll talk on my show!

[TheEngineer]

This was a great thread - many friends and RP supporters I know play poker online daily. I often talk about it on my show...any ideas to reach out to this community I'll talk on my show!

Thanks. I'm glad you're talking this up. I think this issue really shows who supports liberty and who does not.

I think the audio clip of Rep. Cohen asking the Family Research Council (affiliated with Focus on the Family) V.P. if there is any fun he's for would be good for your show. It's at 3:33:45 of the House committee hearing on Internet poker, at http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=396 .

[TheEngineer]

I played on Full Tilt this morning for the first time in about a year. It is one of the only sites till accepting US players. Depositing and withdrawing money is a HUGE hassle.

I try taking about RP in the rooms as much as possible

Thanks for putting out the word. I play FullTilt as well. Others there are on our side. A fellow poker player just sent me a FullTilt player's avatar that you may enjoy:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1593/ronpaulau7.jpg

[TheEngineer]

Speaking of gambling on Ron....Sportsbook put up a line (over/under $ 5 Mil) on the RP Dec. 16th Money Bomb.

Ron Paul a Bigger Bet than the Patriots (dated 11/21/07)

http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-112107.html

I'll take the over! :D

[TheEngineer]

Here's what we're all doing this week and next to fight for our freedoms. This is important for all of us, because a strong showing here demonstrates our willingness to fight for all of our freedoms. If you do nothing else, please go to http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co right now to send a letter to Congress. Sending it really takes less than one minute. When you do, please post here to acknowledge it, to encourage others to follow your lead. Thanks! :D

------------------------------------------------------------------


Fight for the Right to Play Online Poker!! Weeks of 11/26 & 12/3

Based on our discussions and posts here, let's do the following:

1. We have three more weeks to sumbit our comments on the proposed UIGEA regulations (Dec. 12th) so let's make a lot of comments between now and then. Please go to https://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=293 for instructions on submitting your comments and for ideas on what to submit.

2. The House Judiciary Committee held a hearing on Internet gaming on Nov. 14th. Please write and call your congressman to remind them of our victory. The letter we all co-wrote with PPA is at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co. Sending that takes less than one minute; adding info about the hearing takes only a few extra minutes. Regardless of when you last called, let's call this week. Phone numbers are at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/dbq/officials. And, please contact the committee at http://judiciary.house.gov/contact.aspx to express your support for online poker. We won -- let's make sure we continue to be heard.

3. Write to your governor to tell him state laws should support your freedom to play. If you have ANY connection to MA, please contact Gov. Patrick and tell him you won't tolerate a ban on Internet poker. If you have ANY connection to KY, please contact governor-elect Steve Beshear and ask him to ensure that Internet poker is not excluded in his proposal to legalize casino gaming in the state.

4. Regularly write to newspapers and post to blogs. A few posts here and there can start to put us in the national zeitgeist.


Thanks everyone!

--------------------------------------------------------

Contact Info:

Your senators: www.senate.gov
Your representative: www.house.gov

House Judiciary Committee:
http://judiciary.house.gov/contact.aspx
2138 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-3951

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV)
528 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-3542
http://reid.senate.gov/contact/email_form.cfm

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
United States Senate
361-A Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-2541
http://mcconnell.senate.gov/contact_form.cfm

Michael Duncan (from Kentucky)
Chairman, Republican National Committee
Republican National Committee
310 First Street, SE
Washington, D.C. 20003
email: Chairman@gop.com

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-0100
http://speaker.house.gov/contact/
email: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

Rep. Steny Hoyer
House Majority Leader
H-107 Capitol Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-3130

Rep. John Boehner (R-OH)
Office of the Republican Leader
H-204 The Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-4000
Fax: (202) 225-5117

Pres. Bush: comments@whitehouse.gov

Horse tracks: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12335695

Democratic National Committee: http://www.democrats.org/contact.html

Letters to the editor, Washington Post: letters@washpost.com
Letters to the editor, New York Times: letters@nytimes.com

[TheEngineer]

Do you want to stand up for your rights and support this important Ron Paul cosponsored legislation, but have only 60 seconds? Click this link (http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co), either type your info or click your AutoFill button, then click "submit". You'll send a letter to both of your Senators and to your Congressman. It takes literally one minute!

[UCFGavin]

thanks engineer for keeping us updated on the going ons in the poker world.

i have a question though. you started this thread roughly a month ago. since you started it we've had the huge money bomb on the 5th which got dr. paul a lot of publicity. have you noticed an increase in support and drive in the community for dr. paul?

[PatriotOne]

Do you want to stand up for your rights and support this important Ron Paul cosponsored legislation, but have only 60 seconds? Click this link (http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co), either type your info or click your AutoFill button, then click "submit". You'll send a letter to both of your Senators and to your Congressman. It takes literally one minute!

Done deal. Sent to Cantwell, Murray, and Hastings in Wa State. That was very slick.

[TheEngineer]

thanks engineer for keeping us updated on the going ons in the poker world.

i have a question though. you started this thread roughly a month ago. since you started it we've had the huge money bomb on the 5th which got dr. paul a lot of publicity. have you noticed an increase in support and drive in the community for dr. paul?

Glad to be here. Thanks for your support for our position as well. We all want freedom from big government tyranny.

Yes, I've noticed an incease in support. Rep. Paul always had high support in the poker community, even prior to declaring his candidacy. It has increased from that already high support recently, as his poll numbers have gone up and as his candidacy has gained more MSM coverage.

[Dutch]

Just received the newsletter from "The Wizard of Odds", arguably THE #1
worldwide online resource for gamblers. Although he explicitly states that
he is not endorsing any political candidate, he does point to Ron Paul as
one candidate that his readership should know about. Here is the exerpt:


Ron Paul: Presidental candidate would legalize online gambling

You might be wondering how the presidential candidates feel about online gambling, especially in light of the regulations passed last year which made things more difficult. I know of only two candidates of have taken a stand on the issue, one in favor, and one against.
Texas Congressman Ron Paul believes that people should be able to freely gamble online. He was one of the few to take a stand against H.R. 4411, the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act.

On the other side, Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee opposes online gambling. He stated in a questionnaire that as president he would veto any bill to reverse the new restrictions on online gambling.

I have more information (http://wizardofodds.com/general/ronpaul.html) on my site.

This is not meant to be an official endorsement of Ron Paul, but just information for readers who care about this issue.


His webpage referring to Ron is http://wizardofodds.com/general/ronpaul.html

This newsletter goes out to 11753 people!

Go Wizard! :)

Dutch

[TheEngineer]

Just received the newsletter from "The Wizard of Odds", arguably THE #1
worldwide online resource for gamblers. Although he explicitly states that
he is not endorsing any political candidate, he does point to Ron Paul as
one candidate that his readership should know about. Here is the exerpt:



His webpage referring to Ron is http://wizardofodds.com/general/ronpaul.html

This newsletter goes out to 11753 people!

Go Wizard! :)

Dutch

Nice! Michael Shackleford of Wizard of Odds is well-respected in the gaming community, so this is a nice "endorsement" (to the extent he can make one). People really will listen to this and will vote for their freedoms.

[UCFGavin]

Glad to be here. Thanks for your support for our position as well. We all want freedom from big government tyranny.

Yes, I've noticed an incease in support. Rep. Paul always had high support in the poker community, even prior to declaring his candidacy. It has increased from that already high support recently, as his poll numbers have gone up and as his candidacy has gained more MSM coverage.

no problem. online poker paid for my trip to vegas :) glad to help where i can.

[TheEngineer]

no problem. online poker paid for my trip to vegas :) glad to help where i can.

Congrats! :D

Thanks for the help. I hope we'll all stand against the nanny-state. I see this as a key battleground.

[UCFGavin]

Congrats! :D

Thanks for the help. I hope we'll all stand against the nanny-state. I see this as a key battleground.

it is. and unfortunately a lot of people think the government should take care of us whether its because some people can't control themselves and lose all of their money, or because they think the evil corporations are going to take over the internet and only the government can regulate it.

[RPFTW!]

I loved online poker, despite the fact I was horrible at regulating my emotions, nothing like blowing 2000$ in 5 minutes on tilt!!!!

[RPFTW!]

Online poker killed my father, and raped my mother!

[AggieforPaul]

I used to play all the time before they started shutting down sites right and left. I miss online poker. What i do with my own money is none of the government's effing business.

[TheEngineer]

I loved online poker, despite the fact I was horrible at regulating my emotions, nothing like blowing 2000$ in 5 minutes on tilt!!!!

Yeah, the game is like that sometimes. :eek: Good thing guys like Huckabee want to protect you from yourself! NOT!!

[TheEngineer]

it is. and unfortunately a lot of people think the government should take care of us whether its because some people can't control themselves and lose all of their money, or because they think the evil corporations are going to take over the internet and only the government can regulate it.

It's time we tell the politicians we don't need their interference in our lives. :mad:

I'll tell them by advocating for these poker bills. I'll tell them by writing to them to tell them I'll not vote for them if they won't support freedom. And....I'll also tell them by voting for Ron Paul! :D

[TheEngineer]

I used to play all the time before they started shutting down sites right and left. I miss online poker. What i do with my own money is none of the government's effing business.


Well said! Unfortunately some have bought into the concept of a wonderful, protective nanny-state. Some politicians actually try prove how much they "care" by how many restrictions on freedom they advocate.

Fortunately, Ron Paul is initiating no less than a revolution! We'll tell the politicians that they don't need to show us how much they care by taking our money and our freedoms from us. Rather, they can show us how much they care by fighting for our freedoms.

[TheEngineer]

Online poker killed my father, and raped my mother!

FoF believes you! :confused:

Check out the following:

FoF's Anti-Internet Gaming Action Site: http://www.citizenlink.org/FOSI/gambling/A000004244.cfm

FoF's Anti-Gaming Site: http://www.family.org/socialissues/Gambling

FoF's Citizen Link Anti-Gaming Site: http://www.citizenlink.org/FOSI/gambling

FoF's Wikipedia Site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_on_the_family

[TheEngineer]

Ron Paul speaking out for Internet poker rights:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b7_h_OyTI0

[bc2208]

conversation at an online poker table

RonPaul+EV: RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT - SUPPORTS ONLINE GAMBLING FREEDOM
Downs22: lol
Downs22: he has no chance dude
RonPaul+EV: is that why he's leading in fundraising and straw polls
RonPaul+EV: and rising in opinion polls that only call bush supporters
RonPaul+EV: dont go with the crowd - vote for your best interests
Downs22: do you work for the campaign?
RonPaul+EV: i volunteer
Dealer: Glodoc has timed out - hand is folded
Downs22: ok word ill vote for him then

[TheEngineer]

conversation at an online poker table

RonPaul+EV: RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT - SUPPORTS ONLINE GAMBLING FREEDOM
Downs22: lol
Downs22: he has no chance dude
RonPaul+EV: is that why he's leading in fundraising and straw polls
RonPaul+EV: and rising in opinion polls that only call bush supporters
RonPaul+EV: dont go with the crowd - vote for your best interests
Downs22: do you work for the campaign?
RonPaul+EV: i volunteer
Dealer: Glodoc has timed out - hand is folded
Downs22: ok word ill vote for him then

That's the way to do it! Thanks!

[TheEngineer]

Poker players:

Don't forget the Tea Party!

www.ronpaulgraphs.com/dec_16_extended_total.html

www.teaparty07.com/

[TheEngineer]

Tea Party story on a gaming site:

Over $1 Million Raised Overnight for Ron Paul Campaign
www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-121607.html

[justatrey]

Poker Players - Play a few sessions for Ron Paul today!

I'm giving $100 + my winnings when I'm done playing. If I lose, of course, he still gets $100.

GO GO GO!

[TheEngineer]

Poker Players - Play a few sessions for Ron Paul today!

I'm giving $100 + my winnings when I'm done playing. If I lose, of course, he still gets $100.

GO GO GO!

Awesome! I hope you'll remember to send him a note thanking him for defending our freedoms from federal tyranny.

[TheEngineer]

Awesome! I hope you'll remember to send him a note thanking him for defending our freedoms from federal tyranny.

On this topic, a cool thing about Ron Paul is that, on his website, he accepts email from anyone in America. Always has. Most other congressmen accept email only from their constituents. And, even before he started running for president, his legislative director replied to my inquiry about his position on Internet gaming, despite my residing outside his district (and it wasn't a crappy form letter either).

And, despite this extra attention to the public, Rep. Paul returns a lot of his office budget each year. It makes you wonder what the others waste their money on. He'll do the same for America -- provide a less expensive government, and no one will miss the eliminated parts of the government.

[DirtMcGirt]

Bump

[TheEngineer]

Also, if you haven't yet, please remember to write to your congressmen in support of this Ron Paul cosponsored Internet poker legislation. It takes only 60 seconds? Click this link (http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/issues/alert/?alertid=10418046&type=co), either type your info or click your AutoFill button, then click "submit". You'll send a letter to both of your Senators and to your Congressman. Let them know you don't want or need big government control over your life.