Fla. lawmaker files bill to bring back firing squads

[Anti Federalist]

As if just knowing that roughly 10 percent of the people the state kills on death row are innocent, no, that's not enough, you see, we aren't killing violently and painfully enough.

Why not just publicly disembowel them?



Fla. lawmaker files bill to bring back firing squads

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44889145/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/....the

TALLAHASSEE, Florida — Saying it's time to stop letting convicted killers "get off that easy," a Florida state lawmaker wants to use firing squads or the electric chair for those on death row.

Rep. Brad Drake filed a bill this week that would end the use of lethal injection in Florida executions.

Instead, those with a death sentence would choose between electrocution or a firing squad.

Drake, a Republican, said the idea came to him after having a conversation with a constituent at a Waffle House over the legal battles associated with last month's execution of Manuel Valle .

Valle's lawyers tried to stop the execution by arguing that a new lethal drug cocktail would cause him pain and constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

Drake said in a news release that the bill was filed to "end the debate" over what drugs to use.

'Lead cocktail'

"We still have Old Sparky. And if that doesn't suit the criminal, then we will provide them a .45 caliber lead cocktail instead," he said in the release.

"I am sick and tired of this sensitivity movement for criminals. Every time there is a warranted execution that is about to take place, some man or woman is standing on a corner holding a sign, yelling and screaming for humane treatment," he added. "I have no desire to humanely respect those that are inhumane."

The Republican-controlled Florida Legislature will consider Drake's bill during the 2012 session.

[eduardo89]

I'd prefer hanging or firing squad to lethal injection.

[flightlesskiwi]

don't police already do this? oh, wait, the victims don't get a choice. hmm.. tazer or gun... hmmm..


choose between electrocution or a firing squad.

[Slutter McGee]

Now come on. I would love to see your evidence of 10% on death row being innocent. I highly doubt that. I really have no problem with this. Firing Squad might save the tax payer a few bucks.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[donnay]

And if this passes...then they will make sure to bill the family for the bullets as Stalin did! :mad:

[eduardo89]

And if this passes...then they will make sure to bill the family for the bullets as Stalin did! :mad:

That happened in China.

[PierzStyx]

I'd prefer hanging or firing squad to lethal injection.

I'm more of a guillotine man myself.

[eduardo89]

I'm more of a guillotine man myself.http://sacgolf.free.fr/images/golf_la_guillotine_amusante.jpg

[donnay]

Now come on. I would love to see your evidence of 10% on death row being innocent. I highly doubt that. I really have no problem with this. Firing Squad might save the tax payer a few bucks.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

I haven't found the current stats but I found one in 1997 showing 52%,

In 1997, Illinois halted executions when DNA testing found 52% of their deathrow inmates were innocent.

http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/deathpenalty/

[donnay]

That happened in China.

Josef Stalin, charged families for the cost of the bullets used to execute their family members.

[eduardo89]

Josef Stalin, charged families for the cost of the bullets used to execute their family members.

No, it was in China in the 1980's.

http://www.thestar.com/article/610076
http://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX5051-ExecutionDayinZhengzhou.htm
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/12/1047431092598.html
http://timeinmoments.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/in-china-capital-punishment-comes-in-a-van/

[amy31416]

I'm more of a "do medical experiments on them--make their lives useful" sort of person...of course, I'm not talking about those currently on death row.

Too bad Mengele gave us all such a bad name.



(I really am joking.)

[aGameOfThrones]

Drake, a Republican, said the idea came to him after having a conversation with a constituent at a Waffle House

Mmm... Waffles.

[phill4paul]

Mmm... Waffles.

Now THAT was funny as hell! Not so much the fact that this country is turning into a f*cking citizen killing apparatus. But THAT. It made me laugh on an otherwise contemplative evening.

[AFPVet]

There wouldn't even need to be a death penalty trial if justice was done right then and there. Neutralizing the threat before it becomes a murder is better! Unfortunately, the state wants to do the punishing rather than respecting the 2nd Amendment and allowing the citizens to be defenders instead of victims.

[dannno]

Now come on. I would love to see your evidence of 10% on death row being innocent. I highly doubt that. I really have no problem with this. Firing Squad might save the tax payer a few bucks.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee


I haven't found the current stats but I found one in 1997 showing 52%,

In 1997, Illinois halted executions when DNA testing found 52% of their deathrow inmates were innocent.

http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/deathpenalty/


Buh-Bam!!

+rep

[Anti Federalist]

Now come on. I would love to see your evidence of 10% on death row being innocent. I highly doubt that. I really have no problem with this. Firing Squad might save the tax payer a few bucks.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

I was wrong.

The actual figure is OVER 20 percent!

Since 1976 there have been 1271 executions in the US.

Since 1989 there have been OVER 250 DNA exonerations of death row inmates.

250 is 19.6 percent of 1271.

So, taking into account the gap from 1976 to 1989, where no DNA testing was available, the exonerations that were NOT attributed to DNA evidence, and the poor fuckers that just never got representation before the state killed them, I can say, without hesitation, that the figure for innocent men on death row is OVER 20 percent.

As is usually the case, when someone questions how "bad" and grim I'm making some government malfeasance to be, upon closer and careful examination, it almost always turns out to be WORSE than what I originally thought.

And yes, I understand that these are executions not inmates.

That figure is 8 percent, there are 3251 inmates on death row. 250 is 7.69 percent of that.

Sources:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/How_many_people_have_been_exonerated_through_DNA_t esting.php
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row-inmates-state-and-size-death-row-year

[Danke]

I'd prefer hanging or firing squad to lethal injection.

noted.

[eduardo89]

I was wrong.

The actual figure is OVER 20 percent!

Since 1976 there have been 1271 executions in the US.

Since 1989 there have been OVER 250 DNA exonerations of death row inmates.

250 is 19.6 percent of 1271.

So, taking into account the gap from 1976 to 1989, where no DNA testing was available, the exonerations that were NOT attributed to DNA evidence, and the poor fuckers that just never got representation before the state killed them, I can say, without hesitation, that the figure for innocent men on death row is OVER 20 percent.

As is usually the case, when someone questions how "bad" and grim I'm making some government malfeasance to be, upon closer and careful examination, it almost always turns out to be WORSE than what I originally thought.

Sources:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/How_many_people_have_been_exonerated_through_DNA_t esting.php
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm


There are 3,251 people on death row right now + 1,271 executions since 1976 = 4522 + 250 exonerated = people sentenced to death.

250/4802 = 5.2%




EDIT: Figures from the Innocence List:

138 people exonerated since 1973.

Number of cases in which DNA played a substantial factor in establishing innocence: 17

Still, let's say double that are innocent, hell even triple, so 138*3 = 414

414/ (3251+1271+138)...(convicted+exectuted+exonerated)
414/4660 = 8.8%

[Danke]

I'm more of a guillotine man myself.

We use those for politicians like this one.

[Anti Federalist]

There are 3,251 people on death row right now + 1,271 executions since 1976 = 4522 + 250 exonerated = people sentenced to death.

250/4802 = 5.2%

That number on death row floats, it's not static.

Also, what of those cases that I mentioned, where there was no representation or no DNA exoneration, but exoneration through another means, like witnesses recanting?

I stick with a minimum of ten percent.

Even 5 percent is unacceptable, given that capital punishment cases are supposed to the ne plus ultra of US jurisprudence.

How many are just sitting in prison that are innocent?

10 percent?

20?

30?

[donnay]

"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved." ~Benjamin Franklin

[Anti Federalist]

EDIT: Figures from the Innocence List:

138 people exonerated since 1973.

Number of cases in which DNA played a substantial factor in establishing innocence: 17

Still, let's say double that are innocent, hell even triple, so 138*3 = 414

414/ (3251+1271+138)...(convicted+exectuted+exonerated)
414/4660 = 8.8%

Where did you get 138 from?

ETA - Looking, it may be all exonerations not just death row.


Q. How many people have been exonerated through DNA testing?

A. Since 1989, more than 250 people in 34 states have been exonerated through post-conviction DNA testing. View our map of exonerations by state to learn more about geographic trends and individual cases.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/How_many_people_have_been_exonerated_through_DNA_t esting.php

[eduardo89]

Where did you get 138 from?



http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/How_many_people_have_been_exonerated_through_DNA_t esting.php

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row


Q. How many people have been exonerated through DNA testing?

A. Since 1989, more than 250 people in 34 states have been exonerated through post-conviction DNA testing. View our map of exonerations by state to learn more about geographic trends and individual cases.

That doesn't only include death row.

[Tinnuhana]

Doesn't Utah still have the firing squad option? If I remember right, Mormons believe if you shed man's blood, your blood (literally) has to be shed in order for you to get any kind of reprieve in the afterlife. (See "blood atonement") Ted Bundy and Gary Gilmore requested the firing squad when they got death sentences. I think they obliged them. There was an execution in 1996. Not sure if there's been more since then.

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

That doesn't only include death row.

Yes, I see that now.

OK, this list is 138 people, using very strict metrics for exoneration.

These were people that the state would have killed had they not had the good fortune to be represented properly who were found not guilty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

Now, that goes back to the original premise: that ten percent of those on death row are innocent.

Given that the actual number on death row fluctuates, I'm still sticking to the number of those executed vs. the number of the released.

138 is 10.8% of 1271.

[donnay]

Doesn't Utah still have the firing squad option? If I remember right, Mormons believe if you shed man's blood, your blood (literally) has to be shed in order for you to get any kind of reprieve in the afterlife. (See "blood atonement") Ted Bundy and Gary Gilmore requested the firing squad when they got death sentences. I think they obliged them. There was an execution in 1996. Not sure if there's been more since then.

Yes--Idaho, Oklahoma, Utah have firing squads on their books still.

[eduardo89]

Doesn't Utah still have the firing squad option? If I remember right, Mormons believe if you shed man's blood, your blood (literally) has to be shed in order for you to get any kind of reprieve in the afterlife. (See "blood atonement") Ted Bundy and Gary Gilmore requested the firing squad when they got death sentences. I think they obliged them. There was an execution in 1996. Not sure if there's been more since then.

Yeah they do. They last used it in 2010 I think. Virginia also has the electric chair and they used it in 2010 too.

[Zatch]

Firing squads are actually more humane:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2010/06/shoot_me_now.html


This may sound gory, but the limited body of research on death penalty methods suggests that the firing squad is actually a pretty good way to go. A Utah inmate who in 1938 agreed to be gunned to death while hooked up to an electrocardiogram showed complete heart death within one minute of the firing squad's shots. By contrast, a typical, complication-free lethal injection takes about nine minutes to kill an inmate.

And a raft of recent cases suggests that lethal injections don't always go as planned. Ohio has opted to change its execution protocol this year after several botched executions, including one last year in which corrections officials attempted to place an IV line for two hours before finally giving up. Death penalty lawyers and human rights groups argued that mix-ups in the drug cocktail administered in most states could result in a long, painful death, tantamount to torture. The Supreme Court rejected that argument. But corrections officials who insert needles and administer the lethal injection drugs have no medical training, since the professional associations of both doctors and nurses have barred their members from participating in executions. The Oklahoma medical examiner who first designed the most common lethal injection protocol critiqued his own method in 2007, after learning about problems with its administration. Nationwide, the federal government and every state with capital punishment use lethal injection as their primary execution method, though several states have backup methods*—including hanging, electrocution, and lethal gas—should lethal injection prove problematic.

By contrast, shooting is simple and deadly. It's easy to find psychologically stable, trained professionals with experience shooting to kill. Assuming that the executioners aim with that purpose, the four-bullet protocol provides a measure of certainty that one bullet will strike the heart, leading to a near instantaneous death.

There is also some evidence that fatal gunshot wounds of the kind sought by executioners are not only relatively swift, but also not terribly painful. According to a 1993 study of the relative pain associated with different execution methods, gunshot gets the highest rank when compared with lethal gas, electrocution, hanging, stoning, and other popular methods. (The paper assumes that the executions go off without a hitch, and gives lethal injection similar high marks.)

Deborah Denno, a professor at Fordham Law School who has studied execution methods for nearly two decades, said she'd pick the firing squad if offered Gardner's choice between the two methods. "To me, it seems like the more humane choice," she said.

[eduardo89]

Firing squads are actually more humane:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2010/06/shoot_me_now.html

That's why I said i'd rather take firing squad than lethal injection. I'd take hanging over that too...you don't feel a thing, your neck is snapped and you die instantly.

[donnay]

That's why I said i'd rather take firing squad than lethal injection. I'd take hanging over that too...you don't feel a thing, your neck is snapped and you die instantly.

New Hampshire still has hanging on their books.

[Zatch]

I haven't found the current stats but I found one in 1997 showing 52%,

In 1997, Illinois halted executions when DNA testing found 52% of their deathrow inmates were innocent.

http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/deathpenalty/

Do you have a more credible source? I don't see why we're supposed to take the word of some obscure political website as fact.

[cindy25]

That happened in China.

and in Hitler's Germany

[eduardo89]

and in Hitler's Germany

That's not true.

[AFPVet]

I'd prefer hanging or firing squad to lethal injection.

With the current method, I agree. They give you a sedative, followed by a respiratory inhibitor, followed by potassium chloride which stops the heart. This process can be botched easily and you would end up sufficating without anyone knowing... before the potassium chloride stops your heart. Conversely, if they just gave you an overdose of heroin, it wouldn't be too bad lol.

[donnay]

Do you have a more credible source? I don't see why we're supposed to take the word of some obscure political website as fact.

What would be credible to you?

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/aclu_dp_factsheet1.pdf
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june00/deathpenalty_2-4.html
http://www.chicagocouncil.org/library/deathpenalty/moratori.htm
http://www.chicagocouncil.org/library/briefs/macarthu.htm
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/744740/Illinois-moratorium-on-executions-sets-standard-for-nation-The-same-flaws-may-exist-in-other.html
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/illinois-abolishes-death-penalty/

[donnay]

“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, "whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection," and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever.”
~John Adams

[specsaregood]

"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved." ~Benjamin Franklin

Similar quote slightly related:


The question that supporters of torture refuse to even ask is, If one suspects that one individual out of 100 captured has crucial information, and you don't know which one it is, are you justified to torture all 100 to get that information? If we still get a yes answer in support of such torture, I'm afraid our current system of government cannot survive.

-- Ron Paul, Liberty Defined pg. 291