Is this what the Ron Paul Revolution has become?

[Sematary]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED?

[AbVag]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED?

We became mainstream.

[torchbearer]

watched about 10 different youtubes of the kids at these demonstrations- every one of them puking marxist conflict theory out of their pie holes.

[Sematary]

We became mainstream.

So now OTHER people trying to fight for their rights are wackos and nutjobs? BULLSHIT

[Sematary]

watched about 10 different youtubes of the kids at these demonstrations- every one of them puking marxist conflict theory out of their pie holes.

So educate them.

[ItsTime]

So educate them.

It is easier to educate the gop than them. What is more cost effective? If we gain 1 lefty voter that is +1 or if we get 1 voter from Romney, Cain ect that is +2.

[torchbearer]

So educate them.


kids aren't saying that shit in my state.

[RDM]

I would hope that this is not where its heading. I'm a very avid poster on DIGG. The dedicated liberals or Democrats are very harsh toward those on the right. I have been cordially in posts responding to this group pertaining to Ron Paul discussing issues and policies. Sometimes I get luke warm responses, sometimes still get harsh responses just because RP's on the Republican ticket. Then sometimes I get very positive responses from these same people many posts later agreeing with me on certain issues. There are a lot of misguided people on both sides. I've even had some say now they are considering voting for Ron Paul after relentlessly defending Obama for months. The point I'm trying to make is when discussing Ron Paul with someone, at first you may get a no way or never will I vote for him. But that no way could turn into a maybe weeks or months later depending on how you spoke to that person and how well you presented facts without tirades or arguments. No today might mean no, but no today may also mean, not right now.

[Sematary]

It is easier to educate the gop than them. What is more cost effective? If we gain 1 lefty voter that is +1 or if we get 1 voter from Romney, Cain ect that is +2.

What makes you think they are "lefties"? They are young people who are looking at a bleak future of joblessness or underemployment and an establishment that has abandoned them. Why not try to find a way to get them into the fold rather than alienate them?

[Napolitanic Wars]

OWS might be manufactured by powerful people to counteract the TEA Party. They tried this a few years ago with the "Coffee Party" and failed. This whole thing stinks to me and it will not hurt us to keep our distance to see what happens.

The TEA Party didn't exist until AFTER the election in '08. They were slow to associate with RP, and it didn't hurt them.

[dannno]

It is easier to educate the gop than them. What is more cost effective? If we gain 1 lefty voter that is +1 or if we get 1 voter from Romney, Cain ect that is +2.

I disagree, I find it much easier to convince leftists to support Ron Paul and slightly easier to get them to change parties to vote for him.

[ItsTime]

What makes you think they are "lefties"? They are young people who are looking at a bleak future of joblessness or underemployment and an establishment that has abandoned them. Why not try to find a way to get them into the fold rather than alienate them?

Well all the videos I have seen. Who said I wanted to alienate them? I am just pointing out we only have so much time to get Ron Paul the GOP NOMINATION and this is not the most effective way.

[dannno]

kids aren't saying that shit in my state.

Dude, I just camped outside the Federal Reserve Building in SF on Saturday night with about 100 people.. I saw End the Fed signs everywhere, and even a few Ron Paul signs. Unfortunately I couldn't stick around and do a lot of educating, but I really wanted to crash on the doorsteps of the Fed.

[ItsTime]

I disagree, I find it much easier to convince leftists to support Ron Paul and slightly easier to get them to change parties to vote for him.

I strongly disagree. How many lefties are you going to convince to vote Ron Paul AND get them to register GOP before the deadline (I think in 2 days in NY? and 2 days in NH) AND get them to vote in the primary?

[Gumba of Liberty]

What makes you think they are "lefties"? They are young people who are looking at a bleak future of joblessness or underemployment and an establishment that has abandoned them. Why not try to find a way to get them into the fold rather than alienate them?

Absolutely. For a movement that believes in liberty and the fight of the individual against the collective, the way many people here talk about the OWS is a complete contradiction. The "Oh yeah I saw there on the television that these kids just want free stuff and they ain't getting mine." is so reactionary and juvenile. Not to mention your getting your information about OWS from the same corporate media that will do anything to divide and conquer. These people understand the problem and they need education. This whole "well the GOP is easier to convert" attitude is absolute bs. What if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination? Are we always going to look to the GOP to fuel the Revolution? Give me a break. I want liberty and the more people that here about it the sooner it will come.

[Orgoonian]

I strongly disagree. How many lefties are you going to convince to vote Ron Paul AND get them to register GOP before the deadline (I think in 2 days in NY? and 2 days in NH) AND get them to vote in the primary?

For those in the early primary states,i agree with you.Go for GOP voters.
In the west,it is much more logical to go for our potential friends from the left.In my experience,the left are much more open to our idea's,and the average GOP voter will vote for whoever is the nominee anyways.

[Sematary]

OWS might be manufactured by powerful people to counteract the TEA Party. They tried this a few years ago with the "Coffee Party" and failed. This whole thing stinks to me and it will not hurt us to keep our distance to see what happens.

The TEA Party didn't exist until AFTER the election in '08. They were slow to associate with RP, and it didn't hurt them.

The "tea party" is not what I signed up for. The last thing I want is Sarah Palin being the titular head of ANYTHING I have to do with.
I am a Ron Paul supporter. It is an all inclusive group - not a group that EXCLUDES. The disenfranchised should be our friends - not the "others".

[Sematary]

Absolutely. For a movement that believes in liberty and the fight of the individual against the collective, the way many people here talk about the OWS is a complete contradiction. The "Oh yeah I saw there on the television that these kids just want free stuff and they ain't getting mine." is so reactionary and juvenile. Not to mention your getting your information about OWS from the same corporate media that will do anything to divide and conquer. These people understand the problem and they need education. This whole "well the GOP is easier to convert" attitude is absolute bs. What if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination? Are we always going to look to the GOP to fuel the Revolution? Give me a break. I want liberty and the more people that here about it the sooner it will come.

+10

[LibertyEagle]

The "tea party" is not what I signed up for. The last thing I want is Sarah Palin being the titular head of ANYTHING I have to do with.
I am a Ron Paul supporter. It is an all inclusive group - not a group that EXCLUDES. The disenfranchised should be our friends - not the "others".

Yet, what you just posted seems to imply that you have done just that with the tea party; excluded them.

[AbVag]

So now OTHER people trying to fight for their rights are wackos and nutjobs? BULLSHIT

Understand that my response wasn't said to justify that, but rather that becoming "popular" can turn people into what they've hated. But then again, this is the same revolution that threw snowballs 4 years ago.

The thing with popularity is that it has the stigma of being anti-freedom. The more popular you become, the more you have to disassociate from those who may hurt your popularity. By doing so, you oppress their beliefs. It's fine to disagree, in fact, encouraged if you do disagree, but freedom never alienates. It gives the same respect to its greatest villain as it does its greatest hero. This "popularity" got us to treat Gary Johnson the same way we were treated 4 years ago, if not worse. It's the case of being no different than the liberals and neocons in that we seek to be the oppressors rather than the oppressed. It's easy to speak of freedom when you're the underdog.

[MelissaWV]

Absolutely. For a movement that believes in liberty and the fight of the individual against the collective, the way many people here talk about the OWS is a complete contradiction. The "Oh yeah I saw there on the television that these kids just want free stuff and they ain't getting mine." is so reactionary and juvenile. Not to mention your getting your information about OWS from the same corporate media that will do anything to divide and conquer. These people understand the problem and they need education. This whole "well the GOP is easier to convert" attitude is absolute bs. What if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination? Are we always going to look to the GOP to fuel the Revolution? Give me a break. I want liberty and the more people that here about it the sooner it will come.

Your post shows a marked ignorance of what others are saying. We are not seeing it via the "corporate media." We are seeing it firsthand, in many cases, or secondhand from fellow forum members who have been there and reported back. We are seeing a number of people who are acting like spoiled brats. My favorite phrase of the whole thing is "the overeducated and underemployed!" as if I owe her a job.

No, it is not everyone there acting this way. No, this isn't the goal of everyone there. My goodness, though; why would I spend hours or days or weeks weeding through people who think that the Government needs to help them pay their student loans by taking money from the rich... in order to convert a few people to Ron Paul, likely too late to make a difference in the primaries?

"The GOP is easier to convert" is inaccurate. It should be "the GOP is a more efficient use of time in most states." We are trying to win Ron Paul the election. This requires primary voters, and primary wins. If we put all of our energy into that, and fundraising, we would still have an incredibly difficult time in the current field. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to split my time between getting Ron the win, and polling protestors to see if they like the guy and wouldn't mind being affiliated with the party that so many of them associate with the problem.

[Jtorsella]

Absolutely. For a movement that believes in liberty and the fight of the individual against the collective, the way many people here talk about the OWS is a complete contradiction.
Uh, No it's not.
As you said, we believe in the fight against the collective, and therefore, the collectivists. These people are collectivists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI
Go to the part where the one guy says that letting someone speak would violate the principle that "all are equal".
If that's not collectivism, than I don't know what is. We should be fighting tooth and nail against this ideal. If we win the Republican primary, we can educate the vast majority of the American public about the dangers of collectivism.

[Sematary]

Yet, what you just posted seems to imply that you have done just that with the tea party; excluded them.

Not at all. If they support liberty and constitutional government then I welcome them. Unfortunately, it would seem that is not what the tea party is about. The "tea party" seems to be (at least to me) a well financed, well organized, group of small government conservatives who are more concerned with getting their agenda through Congress than helping the nation.

[Sematary]

"The GOP is easier to convert" is inaccurate. It should be "the GOP is a more efficient use of time in most states." We are trying to win Ron Paul the election. This requires primary voters, and primary wins. If we put all of our energy into that, and fundraising, we would still have an incredibly difficult time in the current field. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to split my time between getting Ron the win, and polling protestors to see if they like the guy and wouldn't mind being affiliated with the party that so many of them associate with the problem.

I am only bothered by the references to the OWS. Whether people spend time "converting" them is besides the point.

[Sematary]

Uh, No it's not.
As you said, we believe in the fight against the collective, and therefore, the collectivists. These people are collectivists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI
Go to the part where the one guy says that letting someone speak would violate the principle that "all are equal".
If that's not collectivism, than I don't know what is. We should be fighting tooth and nail against this ideal. If we win the Republican primary, we can educate the vast majority of the American public about the dangers of collectivism.

You DO realize that the OWS has been infiltrated and that THIS was probably an infiltrator, right?

[Jtorsella]

You DO realize that the OWS has been infiltrated and that THIS was probably an infiltrator, right?
No, I don't because the crowd agreed with and voted for him.

[LibertyEagle]

Not at all. If they support liberty and constitutional government then I welcome them. Unfortunately, it would seem that is not what the tea party is about. The "tea party" seems to be (at least to me) a well financed, well organized, group of small government conservatives who are more concerned with getting their agenda through Congress than helping the nation.

That's probably true with some of them. But, certainly not all.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Your post shows a marked ignorance of what others are saying. We are not seeing it via the "corporate media." We are seeing it firsthand, in many cases, or secondhand from fellow forum members who have been there and reported back. We are seeing a number of people who are acting like spoiled brats. My favorite phrase of the whole thing is "the overeducated and underemployed!" as if I owe her a job.

No, it is not everyone there acting this way. No, this isn't the goal of everyone there. My goodness, though; why would I spend hours or days or weeks weeding through people who think that the Government needs to help them pay their student loans by taking money from the rich... in order to convert a few people to Ron Paul, likely too late to make a difference in the primaries?

"The GOP is easier to convert" is inaccurate. It should be "the GOP is a more efficient use of time in most states." We are trying to win Ron Paul the election. This requires primary voters, and primary wins. If we put all of our energy into that, and fundraising, we would still have an incredibly difficult time in the current field. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to split my time between getting Ron the win, and polling protestors to see if they like the guy and wouldn't mind being affiliated with the party that so many of them associate with the problem.

Exactly. Their is no need to "waste" your energies going to OWS. If people want to go and promote the message they should be encouraged. If OWS protesters want to learn more about why we are in this mess they should be influenced by the liberty minded. As Dr. Paul states endlessly, always look at people through the golden-rule principle. If someone from OWS came to RPF, by the tone of the postings here, we would be an enemy to their cause. I believe that instead of looking at the differences of our causes, we should be the adults and point out what brings us together. Then once we agree on that we can discuss how to solve our problems by removing the shackles of government from the American people.

[MelissaWV]

Exactly. Their is no need to "waste" your energies going to OWS. If people want to go and promote the message they should be encouraged. If OWS protesters want to learn more about why we are in this mess they should be influenced by the liberty minded. As Dr. Paul states endlessly, always look at people through the golden-rule principle. If someone from OWS came to RPF, by the tone of the postings here, we would be an enemy to their cause. I believe that instead of looking at the differences of our causes, we should be the adults and point out what brings us together. Then once we agree on that we can discuss how to solve our problems by removing the shackles of government from the American people.

So basically, in order to avoid collectivism that will shoo people away, we should pander to ... "them." How do you pander to a group without collectivism? :p I thought it was discussed earlier that the group is not united in its cause.

[pcosmar]

I have been trying to counter a lot of this bullshit.
you can go through any crowd and cherry pick idiots to film and present.

There are folks there from across the political spectrum.
There are folks in the media and here as well that are pushing division. There are folks that are concerned about this becoming a larger movement.

I have posted the groups that had proposed and promoted this,,, long before the "unions" got involved.
There are folks that have predicted just such an event based on observation,, and said so long time ago.

But never mind,, just keep driving wedges and preserving the StatusQuo.
:(
The history of this,

http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-from-the-frontlines-the-long-road-to-occupywallstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/
Not that I expect some to even click the link cuz Glen Beck tells the whole truth.
:rolleyes:

[Gumba of Liberty]

So basically, in order to avoid collectivism that will shoo people away, we should pander to ... "them." How do you pander to a group without collectivism? :p I thought it was discussed earlier that the group is not united in its cause.

Politicans and liars pander. "I" would point out:

That Washington D.C. is a cease pool of corruption.
The Bailout was a con job.
The Patriot Act has taken our liberties.
The government and the Federal Reserve have pushed individuals into tremendous debt.
The government and Federal Reserve have pushed our jobs overseas.
The government and Federal Reserve have killed Main Street America.
The Wars are out of control and our troops should come home.
The War on Drugs is a War on Young Americans.

I would not call this agreeing on principle.

[Sola_Fide]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED?

The Ron Paul Revolution was never about what the vast majority of OWS protesters want. I've been careful not to fall into the left/right paradigm when criticizing them by calling them Democrats or liberals or whatever. Most of them are unsuspecting totalitarians.

The RP revolution for the past 25+ years has been about property rights, sound money, non-interventionism, and federalism...with the broad theme of Constitutionalism (and even broader themes of voluntaryism and anarchism).

I gotta admit, I don't see too many of those concepts coming out of OWS.

[pcosmar]

Do you agree with this?


Enlightened Citizens Unite!

As long as the economy and government are rigged by the top economic one-tenth of one percent, we will all lose. It's time to unite and fight back!

AmpedStatus is part of a decentralized movement that has two key goals:

1) Break up the "Too Big To Fail" banks and Federal Reserve.

2) End the system of political bribery (campaign finance, lobbying, revolving door.)

Unless we organize and take decisive action on these two core common ground issues, we will all suffer the consequences of our inaction.
-
http://ampedstatus.com/

[Jtorsella]

Do you agree with this?


-
http://ampedstatus.com/
I agree with this in the same way that I agree with a Marxist who wants to end poverty. We and they go about these goals in two COMPLETELY different ways.

[Justinjj1]

It is easier to educate the gop than them. What is more cost effective? If we gain 1 lefty voter that is +1 or if we get 1 voter from Romney, Cain ect that is +2.

Educating the GOP has worked so well that after almost 5 years of continual campaigning and tens of millions of dollars, we are at 8% nationally.

[Sola_Fide]

Educating the GOP has worked so well that after almost 5 years of continual campaigning and tens of millions of dollars, we are at 8% nationally.

We have grown rapidly in 4 years and we are growing more every day.

[Sola_Fide]

Do you agree with this?


-
http://ampedstatus.com/

I don't think I agree. Breaking up industries is muckraking and always leads to more regulation and monopoly.

[pcosmar]

I agree with this in the same way that I agree with a Marxist who wants to end poverty. We and they go about these goals in two COMPLETELY different ways.

Goal #1
1) Break up the "Too Big To Fail" banks and Federal Reserve.
or Goal #2
2) End the system of political bribery (campaign finance, lobbying, revolving door.)

The 10 planks of Marxism already exist in our country. That is a done deal.

I want to return to the Constitution. Those in positions of power and control do not want that to happen.
I want to remove them from their present positions. That means KILL THE BANK. (Federal Reserve)
This also happens to be one of Ron Paul's goals.

[AuH20]

Not at all. If they support liberty and constitutional government then I welcome them. Unfortunately, it would seem that is not what the tea party is about. The "tea party" seems to be (at least to me) a well financed, well organized, group of small government conservatives who are more concerned with getting their agenda through Congress than helping the nation.

Barack is that you? The Tea Party controls less than 10 Senate seats and probably only 50 House seats. They have very little say. The establishment does what it wants.

[Seraphim]

wow...just wow...

1984 shit.

"I'm a zombie, I'm a zombie!!!"


Uh, No it's not.
As you said, we believe in the fight against the collective, and therefore, the collectivists. These people are collectivists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI
Go to the part where the one guy says that letting someone speak would violate the principle that "all are equal".
If that's not collectivism, than I don't know what is. We should be fighting tooth and nail against this ideal. If we win the Republican primary, we can educate the vast majority of the American public about the dangers of collectivism.

[emr1028]

Have any of you who are criticizing and demonizing OWS actually been there? I spent some time at multiple OWS sites in NYC, and I have to say, the reality of these protests is COMPLETELY different from what some people try to portray on these forums. Are there ignorant socialists there? Of course. But that is not the majority. The majority of people there are just average people who are pissed off about the economy and our dysfunctional government. Most of the people I spoke to were very friendly and open minded. Contrary to what most of this forums claims, these people are not diehard socialists. Most of these people aren't claiming to have all the answers, they just want to show the world that they are pissed off about a government that has failed them. We have many of the same grievances. Open up your eyes people, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we didn't have a presence at these protests.

This is a speech I made there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi2l0gWJBUE&feature=player_embedded

The crowd really liked it. I had a few people high-fiving me or coming up to me afterwords to say good job and things like that. The thing is, I could have made this exact same speech at a libertarian rally and gotten the exact same reaction. We have a lot in common, and the most important thing that we can do to help the cause in the long term if Paul doesn't win the nomination is to keep planting the seeds of liberty WHEREVER we can. These protests are fertile grounds for the seeds of liberty. We would be foolish not to plant them. We must be proactive if we want to fuel the revolution beyond the 2012 republican primary.

[pcosmar]

I don't think I agree. Breaking up industries is muckraking and always leads to more regulation and monopoly.

You disagree with Ron Paul?
He is trying to end the Federal Reserve and Central Banking. And proposes competing currencies.

He is also opposed to Corporatism and the corruption that accompanies it.

But you disagree,,
:(

[AuH20]

So now OTHER people trying to fight for their rights are wackos and nutjobs? BULLSHIT

Their right to plunder me? This is a multi-sided battle. We have the bankers, plutocrats and corporatists on one front. And on another side, we have these collectivist twits and the unions. There are no allies. This is it. No cavalry is coming.

[pcosmar]

Their right to plunder me?

You prefer Republican plunder? Federal Reserve Plunder?

I would love to end the socialism in this country. Both the "R" and "D" variety.
We can't do that till we control the Money because right not the Banks OWN them.

[AuH20]

You prefer Republican plunder? Federal Reserve Plunder?

It's an asymmetrical war. We better dig those holes.

[Jtorsella]

You prefer Republican plunder? Federal Reserve Plunder?
No, I honestly much prefer Corporatism to Communism.

[emr1028]

You disagree with Ron Paul?
He is trying to end the Federal Reserve and Central Banking. And proposes competing currencies.

He is also opposed to Corporatism and the corruption that accompanies it.

But you disagree,,
:(

It's ok to disagree with RP on a few things. He is not the messiah. If we kicked everyone out of our movement who didn't agree with RP on everything we would be left with very few people.

[pacelli]

Newsflash. Ron Paul for President. This is not an educational campaign. Ron put it all on the line, no congressional re-election... so I've put it all on the line.

It will be either Obama or Ron Paul. Your choice.

[pcosmar]

Newsflash. Ron Paul for President. This is not an educational campaign. Ron put it all on the line, no congressional re-election... so I've put it all on the line.

It will be either Obama or Ron Paul. Your choice.

Or it could be Romney or worse yet Cain.
I have real doubts that the GOP will allow Ron Paul regardless of how people vote.

TPTB do not want him there.
:(

[Sematary]

Yet, what you just posted seems to imply that you have done just that with the tea party; excluded them.

If their goals are still constitutional government and liberty then come along.

[Sematary]

Have any of you who are criticizing and demonizing OWS actually been there? I spent some time at multiple OWS sites in NYC, and I have to say, the reality of these protests is COMPLETELY different from what some people try to portray on these forums. Are there ignorant socialists there? Of course. But that is not the majority. The majority of people there are just average people who are pissed off about the economy and our dysfunctional government. Most of the people I spoke to were very friendly and open minded. Contrary to what most of this forums claims, these people are not diehard socialists. Most of these people aren't claiming to have all the answers, they just want to show the world that they are pissed off about a government that has failed them. We have many of the same grievances. Open up your eyes people, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we didn't have a presence at these protests.

This is a speech I made there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi2l0gWJBUE&feature=player_embedded

The crowd really liked it. I had a few people high-fiving me or coming up to me afterwords to say good job and things like that. The thing is, I could have made this exact same speech at a libertarian rally and gotten the exact same reaction. We have a lot in common, and the most important thing that we can do to help the cause in the long term if Paul doesn't win the nomination is to keep planting the seeds of liberty WHEREVER we can. These protests are fertile grounds for the seeds of liberty. We would be foolish not to plant them. We must be proactive if we want to fuel the revolution beyond the 2012 republican primary.

+10

[Sematary]

Their right to plunder me? This is a multi-sided battle. We have the bankers, plutocrats and corporatists on one front. And on another side, we have these collectivist twits and the unions. There are no allies. This is it. No cavalry is coming.

And another supporter is coopted by the MSM lies.

[Sematary]

Newsflash. Ron Paul for President. This is not an educational campaign. Ron put it all on the line, no congressional re-election... so I've put it all on the line.

It will be either Obama or Ron Paul. Your choice.

This is a short sighted view in my opinion. Liberty and Constitutional government go WAY beyond the next election.

[pcosmar]

If their goals are still constitutional government and liberty then come along.

The ones here are not.
They are Pro- Patriot act
They are Pro-war
They are Pro Assassination

They elected a couple Establishment Rubber Stamps. They are pushing Romney.

I am not so disturbed with the socialists and unions that Joined the protest against the Central Bank.
I am disturbed that the Tea Party didn't join
I am disturbed that the Militia didn't join

I am disturbed at the disinformation and divisiveness.

:(

[Sola_Fide]

You disagree with Ron Paul?
He is trying to end the Federal Reserve and Central Banking. And proposes competing currencies.

He is also opposed to Corporatism and the corruption that accompanies it.

But you disagree,,
:(

I didn't see anything on that page about ending the Fed or repealing the legal tender laws.

All I read was more and more regulation and central planning.

[Johnny Appleseed]

Its not a Ron Paul revolution its not even a revolution...yet

[Ekrub]

I've been following this movement online, via youtube,OWS facebook, OWS website etc... and what I see is a lot of people advocating socialism with a few people sprinkled in there supporting Paul or the End the Fed movement. If this anger was directed where it should be directed (The Federal Reserve and ending the damn wars) I'd be on board. However, that is just not the case. Sorry,the more ancap I become, the less I can stand socialists/communists. I understand building coalitions... but im not going to build a coalitition (for example) with a guy who wants to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan because he would prefer to fight Russia and North Korea. (not a perfect analogy, but close) Hard for me to work with people who want to end a system so they can add more government control over that existing system.

[pcosmar]

I didn't see anything on that page about ending the Fed or repealing the legal tender laws.



I posted it in this thread, a Copy/Paste from that site.



Enlightened Citizens Unite!

As long as the economy and government are rigged by the top economic one-tenth of one percent, we will all lose. It's time to unite and fight back!

AmpedStatus is part of a decentralized movement that has two key goals:

1) Break up the "Too Big To Fail" banks and Federal Reserve.

2) End the system of political bribery (campaign finance, lobbying, revolving door.)

Unless we organize and take decisive action on these two core common ground issues, we will all suffer the consequences of our inaction.

I posed an extensive interview with the founder of that site.
As well as other groups involved in promoting this,
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?320560-What-it-s-All-About

Oh yeah, Competing currency on the top of the page,
#OccupyWallStreet to Create a New Currency – This Is What Revolution Looks Like!
http://ampedstatus.org/occupywallstreet-to-create-a-new-currency-this-is-what-revolution-looks-like

[LibertyEagle]

Do you agree with this?



No.

1. I am for letting the so-called "too big to fail" banks, fail. But, of their own accord due to their bad business practices.
2. I am not for ending lobbying, as that is tied to the people's right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - 1st Amendment

The problem is not the lobbying. It is that people in our government are allowing themselves to be bought off. This is what needs to be addressed.

[pcosmar]

The problem is not the lobbying. It is that people in our government are allowing themselves to be bought off. This is what needs to be addressed.

Excuse me but there is a huge difference between "a redress of Grievance" and Lobbying (Graft)

http://libertyposter.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/composite41.png

[Jingles]

I really don't like the "Occupy Wallstreet groups". Especially after seeing the Kokesh interviews and listening to interviews that a bunch of my friends did at "Occupy Philadelphia". They are most certainly socialists and many are very hostile towards libertarians and our views. Their demands do not reflect us. Seriously, I don't see why people are getting so excited about this group and are trying to get involved. They aren't us.At least tea partiers have some notion of limited government. You actually have a chance to talk them towards our ways once they understand economics more (explain it to them).

[Sentient Void]

This is a very important image. Take note, fellow RPF members...

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/319229_2471184459696_1254904531_3015983_2047073451 _n.jpg

The absolute *LAST* thing the establishment wants is for us to join forces. Not saying it'll be easy, but there is a lot of common ground.

[CaptainAmerica]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED? OWS is being called out for what it is.

[Anti Federalist]

This is a very important image. Take note, fellow RPF members...

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/319229_2471184459696_1254904531_3015983_2047073451 _n.jpg

The absolute *LAST* thing the establishment wants is for us to join forces. Not saying it'll be easy, but there is a lot of common ground.

Powerful image, well done.

[ninepointfive]

The trouble is that we see this from an educated perspective. We may have been studying libertarian political philosophy for about 5 years now or longer, or maybe less... However, we must not be too critical of our naive friends who don't fully understand the business cycle or where he evil is truly stemming from. For example - We know corporatism is the problem, not corporations.

Not all are lost!

[AGRP]

This is a very important image. Take note, fellow RPF members...

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/319229_2471184459696_1254904531_3015983_2047073451 _n.jpg

The absolute *LAST* thing the establishment wants is for us to join forces. Not saying it'll be easy, but there is a lot of common ground.

The Federal Reserve needs to be represented by supplying/printing the money.

[deadfish]

removed

[klamath]

Not at all. If they support liberty and constitutional government then I welcome them. Unfortunately, it would seem that is not what the OWS is about. The "OWS" seems to be (at least to me) a well financed, well organized, group of large government leftists who are more concerned with getting their agenda through Congress than helping the nation.
Wow held your post up to the mirror and look what came out.

[anaconda]

We became mainstream.

How is ending the Fed, ending the wars, repealing the patriot act and the military commissions act, ending the TSA pat downs, and coining gold and silver "mainstream?" On the other hand, if it is mainstream, then we have much to be grateful for.

[Jandrsn21]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED?

Walking on egg shells, just to please the Republican media and "likely Republican Voters!"

[enoch150]

OWS might be manufactured by powerful people to counteract the TEA Party. They tried this a few years ago with the "Coffee Party" and failed. This whole thing stinks to me and it will not hurt us to keep our distance to see what happens.

Many on the left think the TEA Party was manufactured by the Koch brothers to counter Obama.


The TEA Party didn't exist until AFTER the election in '08. They were slow to associate with RP, and it didn't hurt them.

Other people might claim that the TEA Party was started Dec. 16, 2007 by RP supporters.

[Zap!]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED?

Many of them protesting Wall Street are wackos, lefties, nutjubs, and liberals. I'll even add that some are socialists, commies, and dirty hippies that hate work. Those people who are the above can go to Hell. I don't march with my enemies because they also don't like neo-cons. I'm a paleo-con and proud. We only unite with our own and right-leaning libertarians. That's it.

[nobody's_hero]

I'm firmly convinced that this is the reason our country will never get anywhere when it comes to restoring freedom, because when it comes down to it, we fear each other more than we fear our government.

[torchbearer]

I'm firmly convinced that this is the reason our country will never get anywhere when it comes to restoring freedom, because when it comes down to it, we fear each other more than we fear our government.

I fear DeMOBcracy.

[Sematary]

OWS is being called out for what it is.

Americans who are sick of the status quo and the prospects for a bleak economic future?

[Sematary]

Wow held your post up to the mirror and look what came out.

1. That's cheap
2. OWS is anything BUT those things.
3. Where is the financing coming from? I don't see any organized anything except through social media, and don't throw in the unions because the unions are only using someone elses cause to try and push THEIR agenda which has nothing to do with the agenda of the people who began this protest.
4. There doesn't appear to be any single agenda that I can see, just a common problem (corporations and government).

If they are shown how constitutional government and liberty can help them then they will come.

[Sematary]

Many of them protesting Wall Street are wackos, lefties, nutjubs, and liberals. I'll even add that some are socialists, commies, and dirty hippies that hate work. Those people who are the above can go to Hell. I don't march with my enemies because they also don't like neo-cons. I'm a paleo-con and proud. We only unite with our own and right-leaning libertarians. That's it.

There is no such thing as a right leaning libertarian.
As to the rest of your diatribe - they are AMERICANS who want to see the wrongs being done to AMERICANS by government and corporations righted. They aren't your enemies. The enemies are those who stand against freedom and liberty (the government and the corporations). We should be doing all we can to encourage the revolution because we STARTED the revolution.

[vita3]

The originial "tea party" was a rejection of the 911 Commision Report.

[reillym]

Many of them protesting Wall Street are wackos, lefties, nutjubs, and liberals. I'll even add that some are socialists, commies, and dirty hippies that hate work. Those people who are the above can go to Hell. I don't march with my enemies because they also don't like neo-cons. I'm a paleo-con and proud. We only unite with our own and right-leaning libertarians. That's it.

And, this, everyone, is a representation of what is wrong with our country.


You are a fool, sir.

[Sematary]

I was watching the video of Adam Kokesh interviewing that guy "gentleman" who advocates force against the wealthy. I have to agree that he (and the girl he interviewed) are idiots but I think Adam had the right tact - attempt to educate, not ridicule. Really made that Obama chick squirm though. That was great. Maybe now she'll do some research and learn some stuff.

[Sematary]

The originial "tea party" was a rejection of the 911 Commision Report.

No, the original tea party were the supporters of Ron Paul. Unfortunately, it became coopted and became the tool of neocons rather than the supporters of limited government and constitutional law.

[Brown Sapper]

I think the media is trying to frame these guys just like they are doing to us. Nobody is a waste of time. Who says you can't campaign these guys and the right. Everyone has one vote whether its from a Communist or from an anarchist. I'm never going to say "Well he isn't conservative so I'll just be wasting my breath." If someone is looking for advice I'm going to give it to them and these people are still searching. I mean isn't that the whole reason that we have the Blue Republicans movement. Our best asset is that people of all types are angry at the system itself and most people are just looking for something to blame. A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus.

[a-texan]

occupy I saw many people who support Ron Paul - they may not know it yet. I have put together what I saw on the web over the past week with a Ron Paul spin. http://www.youtube.com/user/Txtruthseeker?feature=mhee or youtube channel Txtruthseeker titled "old school view of occupy with R.P. spin.

[klamath]

1. That's cheap
2. OWS is anything BUT those things.
3. Where is the financing coming from? I don't see any organized anything except through social media, and don't throw in the unions because the unions are only using someone elses cause to try and push THEIR agenda which has nothing to do with the agenda of the people who began this protest.
4. There doesn't appear to be any single agenda that I can see, just a common problem (corporations and government).

If they are shown how constitutional government and liberty can help them then they will come.The tea party was not organized or funding by rich individuals unless you call RP that. It was originally about libertarians and small government republicans that were fed up with 8 years of Bush, congress, wars, spending and attacks on liberties. It was later fueled by republicans pissed off by TARP and government interfering in free enterprise. Later it was taken over by politicians of the normal strip using the tea party label to get elected. The only good thing about the tea party besides the handfull of decent republicans is that it stopped all
agendas getting through congress. You are looking at the tea party through left colored glasses just as some on the right are looking at the OWS through their filtered glasses. What you said about the tea party is EXACTLY the same thing they are saying about the OWS.

[Sematary]

The tea party was not organized or funding by rich individuals unless you call RP that. It was originally about libertarians and small government republicans that were fed up with 8 years of Bush, congress, wars, spending and attacks on liberties. It was later fueled by republicans pissed off by TARP and government interfering in free enterprise. Later it was taken over by politicians of the normal strip using the tea party label to get elected. The only good thing about the tea party besides the handfull of decent republicans is that it stopped all
agendas getting through congress. You are looking at the tea party through left colored glasses just as some on the right are looking at the OWS through their filtered glasses. What you said about the tea party is EXACTLY the same thing they are saying about the OWS.

The only thing I agree with you on is that the ORIGINAL tea party was begun by us. It has now been bought and owned by neocons and it appears that OWS will eventually be bought and owned by the left. A real shame for both movements.

[klamath]

The only thing I agree with you on is that the ORIGINAL tea party was begun by us. It has now been bought and owned by neocons and it appears that OWS will eventually be bought and owned by the left. A real shame for both movements.
OWS as far as many of us are concerned has ALREADY been bought by the left. The political parties are learning to harness popular movements like these a lot faster. IF OWS has just become a vehicle to elect a democratic majority in the house then I don't want any part of it, as the best we can hope for is gridlock until a real principled movement gets traction.

[pcosmar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghZlwCFYpYc

I am not the only one that knows this. I have been unemployed since 2006. This song is Thousands of people.

The destruction of the Economy is deliberate.

The left has joined this protest. It was started by people that see the Money manipulators are doing this.
They do not want both he "right" and "left" united on the common problem. The Central Bank.

This was started by online activists.
I have posted several times and it seems few even want to look at that,, it is easier to point at political enemies and place blame.

[erowe1]

So educate them.

I may want to educate Muslims about the Good News of Jesus Christ. But I don't want to do that in their mosques during their prayer times.

Same thing applies to the OWS folks. They have computers. If they want to sit through Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose" or something like that, it's right there for them on the internet. But I doubt they want to.

Edit: But supposedly there are some people there who support Ron Paul. It's not my purview to say if they're real or not. But if they are, I'm glad for their support. If you're one of them, that goes for you too. Just don't ask me to identify with it.

[Sematary]

I may want to educate Muslims about the Good News of Jesus Christ. But I don't want to do that in their mosques during their prayer times.

Same thing applies to the OWS folks. They have computers. If they want to sit through Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose" or something like that, it's right there for them on the internet. But I doubt they want to.

Edit: But supposedly there are some people there who support Ron Paul. It's not my purview to say if they're real or not. But if they are, I'm glad for their support. If you're one of them, that goes for you too. Just don't ask me to identify with it.

We (Ron Paul Supporters) have a common enemy - the government as it currently is (non)functioning and corporate control of said government. It would appear that OWS does not yet realize that their jobs were negotiated away by the government or that corporations simply took advantage of said negotiations. Someone has to show them the way to find the truth or they will continue to only blame the corporations when in fact it is the government that created the environment for the perceived social inequities that exist today. The protesters don't need to learn economic theory but they do need to learn how our current malfunctioning system came about and what can be done to correct it. Teach them about the fed. Teach them about how the corporations own the government and asking the government to do something about the people who feed them isn't going to do them any good.

[pcosmar]

I may want to educate Muslims about the Good News of Jesus Christ. But I don't want to do that in their mosques during their prayer times.

Same thing applies to the OWS folks. They have computers. If they want to sit through Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose" or something like that, it's right there for them on the internet. But I doubt they want to.

Edit: But supposedly there are some people there who support Ron Paul. It's not my purview to say if they're real or not. But if they are, I'm glad for their support. If you're one of them, that goes for you too. Just don't ask me to identify with it.

You might want to listen to this interview. There is also a part 2.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2kiprZTG0g


overlook for a moment that it is PressTV.
US Corporate News is NOT going to touch the subject.

[erowe1]

Someone has to show them the way to find the truth or they will continue to only blame the corporations

I doubt there's any "if" about it. I doubt they're interested in the truth. But if they are, nothing is preventing them from learning it. Educating people doesn't have to involve us going where we're not welcome so they can throw food at us.

[LibertyEagle]

Excuse me but there is a huge difference between "a redress of Grievance" and Lobbying (Graft)



Excuse me, but I already said the problem was that our politicians were being bought off. Do you understand how lobbyists came about? If you make "lobbying" illegal, you are shooting our own 1st Amendment in the foot. The people have a right for a redress of grievances.

The problem is when government officials sway their legislative actions in exchange for money or gifts.

What comes to mind right now is an analogy about guns. Some people believe that since guns can be used to do bad things, they should be made illegal. Others believe that guns are tools and that only actions should be judged.

[jtstellar]

don't like them but never was against grassroots action to convert and educate, just saying don't get ron paul involved. not everything is for political gain. on the other hand if calling you an economic illiterate (code name:liberal) pisses you off, is not condescending, merely pointing out the obvious. it's not a liberal's revolution, just like it ain't a neocon's.

[pcosmar]

Excuse me, but I already said the problem was that our politicians were being bought off. Do you understand how lobbyists came about? If you make "lobbying" illegal, you are shooting our own 1st Amendment in the foot. The people have a right for a redress of grievances.

The problem is when government officials sway their legislative actions in exchange for money or gifts.

What comes to mind right now is an analogy about guns. Some people believe that since guns can be used to do bad things, they should be made illegal. Others believe that guns are tools and that only actions should be judged.

Who The Fuck Said Anything About Making Lobbying Illegal?

You are deliberately twisting what was said into something that isn't.

That is FUCKING Dishonest LE. I expect better of you


2) End the system of political bribery (campaign finance, lobbying, revolving door.)

End Political BRIBERY.

[Bossobass]

You DO realize that the OWS has been infiltrated and that THIS was probably an infiltrator, right?

Of course I do, as does any free-thinker.

The policy is called "polarization". It was used by the Nixon administration to pit Americans against each other while the Vietnam war dragged on.

It spawned the "Hardhats" vs "Hippies" saga with the ad slogan: "America: Love It Or Leave It".

BTW, I came of age in the Vietnam era, stamped 1-A by the Selective Service and I didn't know a single so-called "Hippie", a made-up label, like the ones you see posted at RPF every day by self-appointed judges.

I'm reading the same B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T on these boards that I heard back then.

A Nixon quote:


You see these bums, you know, blowing up the campuses. Listen, the boys that are on the college campuses today are the luckiest people in the world, going to the greatest universities, and here they are burning up the books, I mean storming around about this issue -- I mean you name it -- ...

Just check the join dates and/or records of service the the RP campaign of the spewers, campaign experts and label makers.

Chase away the Truthers, Birthers, OWS, and anyone who isn't what the shills say they should be and who's left to vote for Ron? Bill Kristol and Karl Rove.

They say it's easier to turn a GOP wank than to prompt a protester to register R and vote for RP. A) Look at RP's standing in the polls of likely GOP voters and, B) I registered R, became an R delegate and wrote RP in and believe me, that's saying more than any argument for turning GOP good ole boy arms dealers.

Bosso

[osan]

I was reading the thoughts of posters in the various threads on the OWS and to be honest, I was taken aback. WACKOS? LEFTIES? NUTJOBS? LIBERALS? That is not the Ron Paul Revolution I knew and loved 4 years ago. Then, like now, WE were the WACKOS and the NUTJOBS and not to be listened to. Now, so many of the people here sound like the neocons that have spawned the revolution. What HAPPENED?

The bulk of those protesting appear to be the bottom of the intellectual barrel - willfully ignorant of economics at the very least. They bitch and complain about evil corporations while texting and calling on the cell phones provided by the very corporations that made such devices possible. These people are idiots, and dangerous ones to boot. Consider the list of demands they have made, which as I have heard in the media include the following:

1. Minimum wage of $20/hr.
2. GUARANTEED "living" wage even for those who do not work.
3. An "end" to the "fossil fuel economy".
4. Ending "corporate personhood"

These people are either ignorantly or maliciously parroting the pillars of Marxist doctrine and the MSM are eating it up.

If we brought minwage to their desired levels, guess what: prices will simply go up in response. What then? Another increase? Before long we will be paying one million dollars for breakfast at McDonalds. Another consequence these grasping imbeciles appear to ignore is that such a wage limit will pound plenty of small and medium sized businesses into the ground, some fatally. The rest will have to pare down their work forces, putting ever more on the unemployment lines and stressing those remaining even more, most likely impacting the quality of the products and services of such companies in a significantly negative fashion. On top of that, fewer people will be able to afford those products and services, and thus begins the death spiral.

If there is a guranteed income for all, regardless whether they work, the nation will implode. There are more than enough people of the entitlement mentality who will be more than happy not to work a day in their lives if someone else will be covering their tabs. As the economy sinks, more go on the dole and an ever shrinking workforce will be called upon to support an ever growing parasitic base. When this condition waltzes past a threshold the economy and the nation implodes, riots break out, and the Unites States of America comes to a violently ignominious end.

Add to that the precipitous end to the "fossil fuel economy". What does that mean? No more pharmaceuticals. Disease runs rampant across the face of humanity. Wars uncountable break out. No fertilizers mean no food.

What these morons are demanding is nothing less than the catastrophic demise of the human race. Think that is exaggeration? Better give this a good hard contemplation because everything I claim is so. What they are suggesting is unvarnished madness. If you want to praise them and take up with their cause, by all means do so, but when you succeed and the nation falls into ruin the only person you will have to thank for it is yourself.

No need to buy a clue. I have given you several here on a silver platter and at no cost to you, save a few minutes it will take to get your head out of your butt.

The real shame of this whole OWS deal is that this groundswell of opposition could have been the greatest boost to freedom this nation has known since 1776. Instead of people coming together to protest the right things for the wrong reasons, they would be doing it for the far better ones. This opportunity shall have been a waste of time and effort at the very best. In a worse case it will spell the end of freedom and economic doom for this nation. That what you want? Hope it's not too bitter going down.

Finally, if there are "no leaders" of this whole shit-fest, then who wrote the list of demands? Who are they to make such a list and claim it to be representative of the protesters? Something there smells mighty rotten. I hold little doubt that this whole affair is being very quietly guided by those who do not have the better interests of Johnny Q. in mind. I suspect Obama has been walking around with a woodie ever since this whole mess began.

Be careful of that for which you express desire. You may actually get it.

[jtstellar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTx6t3FUSkM&feature=feedu

stefbot sums up my distaste for this movement pretty well, and i believe for many of us as well. so, as usual, before you study 1 minute and rant on for 10, just like you studied econ for 5 seconds then went on to protest for 50, take some time to actually understand the topic. like stephen says in the video, you're raging against the machine, you better darn well at least know which direction the machine is.

video 2 below to answer specific demands, video 1 overview of the movement. stephen also did a video with tom woods, but that video is 40 minutes long (i'm afraid too long for most people's attention span) and the audio kept breaking up, but it's in the channel playbox.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Z5Yb7Pjqk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[pcosmar]

Finally, if there are "no leaders" of this whole shit-fest, then who wrote the list of demands? Who are they to make such a list and claim it to be representative of the protesters? Something there smells mighty rotten. I hold little doubt that this whole affair is being very quietly guided by those who do not have the better interests of Johnny Q. in mind. I suspect Obama has been walking around with a woodie ever since this whole mess began.

Be careful of that for which you express desire. You may actually get it.

Well I can answer that question, "who wrote that list of demands?"
It was a random forum post by a single individual.

But it was widely promoted by the media even after a site admin put a LARGE DISCLAIMER on it.

As far as the widely interviewed idiots,, you will find them in any crowd, and on any street and can use them for any question.

There are some intelligent and informed folks. But they aren't being interviewed.

[Zap!]

There is no such thing as a right leaning libertarian.
As to the rest of your diatribe - they are AMERICANS who want to see the wrongs being done to AMERICANS by government and corporations righted. They aren't your enemies. The enemies are those who stand against freedom and liberty (the government and the corporations). We should be doing all we can to encourage the revolution because we STARTED the revolution.

Sure there is. Ron Paul and Bob Barr are right-leaning libertarians, while Jesse Ventura and Adam Kokesh are left-leaning ones.

They are not Americans to me. If someone believes in socialism or worse, I want no part of them, sorry.

[Zap!]

And, this, everyone, is a representation of what is wrong with our country.


You are a fool, sir.

Go ahead and march with them. Watch them stab you in the back. They will never vote for Ron Paul, they love government and all its programs.

[KingRobbStark]

We need to press the FED issue as much as possible. If that's done everything else will fall into place.

[pcosmar]

We need to press the FED issue as much as possible. If that's done everything else will fall into place.

This is truth.
This was the intention of those that inspired it.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?322139-Wayback-Machine.-%28when-did-this-start-%29

[redbluepill]

I disagree, I find it much easier to convince leftists to support Ron Paul and slightly easier to get them to change parties to vote for him.

Same here. Neocons start to froathe at the mouth if you suggest the War on Terror or War on Drugs are huge wastes of taxpayer dollars. Many leftists are fine with the idea of decentralized government, though their ideas on the roles of government may be quite different. Most of them would be fine with a freer market if we had smaller government. Don't get me wrong, I've talked with some who are just as closed-minded as anyone. Its just been my experience.

[Sematary]

The bulk of those protesting appear to be the bottom of the intellectual barrel - willfully ignorant of economics at the very least. They bitch and complain about evil corporations while texting and calling on the cell phones provided by the very corporations that made such devices possible. These people are idiots, and dangerous ones to boot. Consider the list of demands they have made, which as I have heard in the media include the following:

1. Minimum wage of $20/hr.
2. GUARANTEED "living" wage even for those who do not work.
3. An "end" to the "fossil fuel economy".
4. Ending "corporate personhood"

These people are either ignorantly or maliciously parroting the pillars of Marxist doctrine and the MSM are eating it up.

If we brought minwage to their desired levels, guess what: prices will simply go up in response. What then? Another increase? Before long we will be paying one million dollars for breakfast at McDonalds. Another consequence these grasping imbeciles appear to ignore is that such a wage limit will pound plenty of small and medium sized businesses into the ground, some fatally. The rest will have to pare down their work forces, putting ever more on the unemployment lines and stressing those remaining even more, most likely impacting the quality of the products and services of such companies in a significantly negative fashion. On top of that, fewer people will be able to afford those products and services, and thus begins the death spiral.

If there is a guranteed income for all, regardless whether they work, the nation will implode. There are more than enough people of the entitlement mentality who will be more than happy not to work a day in their lives if someone else will be covering their tabs. As the economy sinks, more go on the dole and an ever shrinking workforce will be called upon to support an ever growing parasitic base. When this condition waltzes past a threshold the economy and the nation implodes, riots break out, and the Unites States of America comes to a violently ignominious end.

Add to that the precipitous end to the "fossil fuel economy". What does that mean? No more pharmaceuticals. Disease runs rampant across the face of humanity. Wars uncountable break out. No fertilizers mean no food.

What these morons are demanding is nothing less than the catastrophic demise of the human race. Think that is exaggeration? Better give this a good hard contemplation because everything I claim is so. What they are suggesting is unvarnished madness. If you want to praise them and take up with their cause, by all means do so, but when you succeed and the nation falls into ruin the only person you will have to thank for it is yourself.

No need to buy a clue. I have given you several here on a silver platter and at no cost to you, save a few minutes it will take to get your head out of your butt.

The real shame of this whole OWS deal is that this groundswell of opposition could have been the greatest boost to freedom this nation has known since 1776. Instead of people coming together to protest the right things for the wrong reasons, they would be doing it for the far better ones. This opportunity shall have been a waste of time and effort at the very best. In a worse case it will spell the end of freedom and economic doom for this nation. That what you want? Hope it's not too bitter going down.

Finally, if there are "no leaders" of this whole shit-fest, then who wrote the list of demands? Who are they to make such a list and claim it to be representative of the protesters? Something there smells mighty rotten. I hold little doubt that this whole affair is being very quietly guided by those who do not have the better interests of Johnny Q. in mind. I suspect Obama has been walking around with a woodie ever since this whole mess began.

Be careful of that for which you express desire. You may actually get it.

They may be ignorant of the facts but let's face it - they don't call US the ten percenters for nothing. We are the 10% who can see through the bullshit and lies. It is up to US to show the other 90% where they are missing the boat. I haven't been as active this campaign as the last but I still talk to people. I am still swaying other people to register/change to R for the primaries and I am still spreading the truth of Ron Paul. I try to point out to them where Constitutional government can benefit them. It helps.

[donnay]

No.

1. I am for letting the so-called "too big to fail" banks, fail. But, of their own accord due to their bad business practices.
2. I am not for ending lobbying, as that is tied to the people's right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.



The problem is not the lobbying. It is that people in our government are allowing themselves to be bought off. This is what needs to be addressed.

How are the banks going to fail on their own accord when government keeps bailing them out?

Lobbyist are the very reason this corruption in DC is out-of-control. Graft, blackmail, and favors! Reciprocity!

rec·i·proc·i·ty/ˌresəˈpräsətē/
Noun:
The practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit, esp. privileges granted by one country or organization to another.

[CUnknown]

I don't think I agree. Breaking up industries is muckraking and always leads to more regulation and monopoly.



1) Break up the "Too Big To Fail" banks and Federal Reserve.

2) End the system of political bribery (campaign finance, lobbying, revolving door.)

You don't even agree with the first one? That is a major part of the Ron Paul platform.. Remember that denying the big banks the bailouts they need would break them up. And... you're not against the Fed, are you sure?

About the second one, I like Rand's idea that corporations who take contracts from the government shouldn't be allowed to lobby. I think this idea would go over very well with the OWS crowd.

OWS has some differences on some things, but by and large, they are our strong allies, or should be considered as such.