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John F Kennedy III
10-08-2011, 11:46 AM
I have narrowed my choices down to these two states. I am leaning New Hampshire, but I need to know alot more about Oregon before I decide. My big hang-up on this is that Oregon is ranked #1 in personal freedom (NH is #1 overall). This has lead me to try to figure out what makes Oregon so good and if it really would be a good place to live.

From what I do know so far NH is the #1 state for activism. As far as I know Oregon isn't even on the radar in this category. Also Oregon is more lax on marijuana, but stricter on guns. I'm thinking the marijuana issue might be part of the reason NH ranks #11 in personal freedom.

Some things I am looking for (in no real order):

1. A state with a good economy where I can have a stable full time job.

2. For that state to be among the most free and Constitutional

3. A political climate that is ripe for the picking, where us liberty minded people can gain a foothold.

4. I do plan to run for political office there.

5. The political make-up is a factor. Like are the majority of the citizens socialists/liberals/libertarians/true conservatives/big gov conservatives/etc.

6. Weather. I don't want to move to a state where that constantly has floods or hurricanes or tornadoes.

7. Personal freedom.

8. I will be a political activist.

9. Job market. Like what kind of jobs are there in the state, are there jobs to find, how is unemployment, etc.

10. Cost of living.

That's all I can think of for now. Feel free to ask questions and thank you for your help :)



http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/307998_288706934491432_100000563848054_1105663_191 8815004_n.jpg

eduardo89
10-08-2011, 11:49 AM
Ruled out North Dakota?

John F Kennedy III
10-08-2011, 12:00 PM
Ruled out North Dakota?

Yes. Terrible weather. And Fargo floods and if you live somewhere else in the state it seems to require living out of your car or mobile home unless you want to pay $200-$300 a night for a hotel.

WilliamShrugged
10-08-2011, 12:11 PM
Oregon? That state sucks! Taxes, crappy speed limits, lefties all over the place. Portland sucks big time! The best thing about the state is the beautiful scenery except around Jordan Valley. But you get tired of the Green and trees fast and the rainy weather is depressing.

KCIndy
10-08-2011, 12:17 PM
If you are planning on running for office, I would suggest NH. I think you will find a bigger libertarian-minded base population there. Also, my understanding is that the NH assembly is the largest in the U.S. With a ratio of just a few thousand persons per representative.

John F Kennedy III
10-08-2011, 12:28 PM
If you are planning on running for office, I would suggest NH. I think you will find a bigger libertarian-minded base population there. Also, my understanding is that the NH assembly is the largest in the U.S. With a ratio of just a few thousand persons per representative.

400 state reps, I believe the ratio is 3,500 citizens per rep.

affa
10-08-2011, 12:34 PM
I live in Portland, Oregon. Will add my 2 cents.

First thing you should know is that Portland is considerably more activist/left leaning than the state around it, much like I've heard Austin is to Texas. It rains during winter, but it's more of a drizzle and is overexaggerated by most... it's not bad at all, and generally stays temperate all winter (one light snow every couple years). I've seen people out running shirtless on christmas day before, though there are chilly days. It's up and coming, extremely vegan friendly, has lots of cooperatively owned businesses (food coops, bike coops, breweries).

You're hours away from all sorts of amazing views, hikes, snowboarding, surfing, old growth forest, etc. Seriously, it's amazing.



1. A state with a good economy where I can have a stable full time job.


Portland has high unemployment. Economy is pretty rough. You can get a job with the right skill set, but it can be difficult if you're looking to be a temp or short order cook, that sort of thing since there are tons of people looking.


2. For that state to be among the most free and Constitutional


Can't speak to 'most', but it feels free enough. Most people are very community minded and distrustful of gov't in my opinion.



3. A political climate that is ripe for the picking, where us liberty minded people can gain a foothold.


Absolutely. There are a ton of politically minded people here, from anarchists on up. Not all of them have their head on straight, obviously, but it's got huge potential for the right voice. I do see Ron Paul bumper stickers quite a bit.



4. I do plan to run for political office there.


Nothing to add here.



5. The political make-up is a factor. Like are the majority of the citizens socialists/liberals/libertarians/true conservatives/big gov conservatives/etc.


I've heard greater Oregon is more traditionally conservative, but Portland is highly radicalized. Urban farmers, anarchists, coop type people, etc, etc. A huge anti-war contingent. I'm sure we had a lot of Obama supporters last go round, but i'm also sure most of them are fed up with him.

Definitely good soil for liberty.


6. Weather. I don't want to move to a state where that constantly has floods or hurricanes or tornadoes.


Dreary from October to May, mostly just grey skies and light drizzle off and on, though the sun comes out quite a bit too (they say if you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes). No big storms, a out-of-place blizzard once every 5 years, otherwise almost no snow at all.
Spring/Summer is absolutely amazingly blissful. Never too hot, just perfect outdoor weather. Extremely beautiful, highly recommended.



7. Personal freedom.


Pretty good. No complaints I couldn't say of everywhere else.



8. I will be a political activist.


Very ripe for that.



9. Job market. Like what kind of jobs are there in the state, are there jobs to find, how is unemployment, etc.


so many people have been moving to Portland, this is definitely the hardest part... finding a job.



10. Cost of living.


Low. I moved here from NYC, so it still seems super cheap, though it's probably gone up a bit. If i remember correctly, it was about 40% of NYC.
It doesn't feel expensive.


Overall, I'd highly recommend Portland. I've lived in Philly, NYC, and some other places and this was the best move of my life.

affa
10-08-2011, 12:39 PM
Oregon? That state sucks! Taxes, crappy speed limits, lefties all over the place. Portland sucks big time! The best thing about the state is the beautiful scenery except around Jordan Valley. But you get tired of the Green and trees fast and the rainy weather is depressing.

Beg to differ. Portland is amazing. No sales tax, either, but the income tax is a bit higher.

But if you're the type to call people 'annoying lefties' or stupid names like 'libtards' rather than see them as potential liberty minded people, then yea, maybe not for you. But overall, pretty much everyone I know is liberty minded. Some lean left, some lean right, all open to the message.

WilliamShrugged
10-08-2011, 01:02 PM
Affa the people i have met in Oregon while visiting were liberty minded towards weed and other personal liberty items, but guns, money, and rights they wanted dictated by "the people" weren't. A lot of Obama signs, anti-capitalist rhetoric, and environmentalist from my experience. I'm glad you like it though. I'm just saying as a radical libertarian like myself i hated my stay there and way disappoint many times just talking with the locals.

Austrian Econ Disciple
10-08-2011, 01:16 PM
It seems to me NH is a no-brainer as it currently is the most free state & it is the only state with a libertarian infrastructure in place to receive more movers, and to accommodate them once they get there. It also has just as gorgeous scenery as Oregon, especially if you like hiking, skiing, kayaking, and like Oregon it borders the ocean which I find highly important if/when Independence is finally achieved. Similarly, NH's Government (if you are a minarchist) is the most conducive of any state to limit State-power. It is extremely easy to run for office, and line item voting on budgets in municipalities is the norm (so a group of committed activists moving to a town can have a lot of leverage). Honestly it seems to me the obvious choice is NH. I can't wait to finish school and move up there myself. I'm looking at more of the unincorporated areas so I won't have to pay any property, sales, or income tax.

Plus, who wouldn't want to be near AF, Shemdogg, and the rest of the committed folks on this board from NH?

PS: I do have one question for those living in NH right now. What would you say is the job environment like for Physical Therapy Assistants in NH? I know they are extremely in demand here in Florida, but that is because we have a lot of old-folks in retirement. Just curious on my job prospects in NH. Thanks!

John F Kennedy III
10-08-2011, 01:21 PM
I live in Portland, Oregon. Will add my 2 cents.

First thing you should know is that Portland is considerably more activist/left leaning than the state around it, much like I've heard Austin is to Texas. It rains during winter, but it's more of a drizzle and is overexaggerated by most... it's not bad at all, and generally stays temperate all winter (one light snow every couple years). I've seen people out running shirtless on christmas day before, though there are chilly days. It's up and coming, extremely vegan friendly, has lots of cooperatively owned businesses (food coops, bike coops, breweries).

You're hours away from all sorts of amazing views, hikes, snowboarding, surfing, old growth forest, etc. Seriously, it's amazing.


I lived in Portland from age 3-6. I remember lots of rain and snow. Lol. This would be 1990-1993. My favorite basketball team is still the Portland Trail Blazers.



Portland has high unemployment. Economy is pretty rough. You can get a job with the right skill set, but it can be difficult if you're looking to be a temp or short order cook, that sort of thing since there are tons of people looking.

This is very bad.



Can't speak to 'most', but it feels free enough. Most people are very community minded and distrustful of gov't in my opinion.

This is very good.




Absolutely. There are a ton of politically minded people here, from anarchists on up. Not all of them have their head on straight, obviously, but it's got huge potential for the right voice. I do see Ron Paul bumper stickers quite a bit.

I like the sound of this.



I've heard greater Oregon is more traditionally conservative, but Portland is highly radicalized. Urban farmers, anarchists, coop type people, etc, etc. A huge anti-war contingent. I'm sure we had a lot of Obama supporters last go round, but i'm also sure most of them are fed up with him.

Definitely good soil for liberty.


Radicalized? And what is a coop? Anti-war good, Obama bad.



Dreary from October to May, mostly just grey skies and light drizzle off and on, though the sun comes out quite a bit too (they say if you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes). No big storms, a out-of-place blizzard once every 5 years, otherwise almost no snow at all.
Spring/Summer is absolutely amazingly blissful. Never too hot, just perfect outdoor weather. Extremely beautiful, highly recommended.

I highly prefer the weather here in central Cali. But there has to be some sort of trade off in exchange for getting away from the big government crap here.




Pretty good. No complaints I couldn't say of everywhere else.

Cool.



Very ripe for that.

Awesome :)




so many people have been moving to Portland, this is definitely the hardest part... finding a job.

If I do move up there maybe I could live outside of Portland. I'm not sure. I plan on waiting 2 years before I move and spending that time getting things in order. By the time I move I will have some skill sets so the job thing might not be as big of a problem.



Low. I moved here from NYC, so it still seems super cheap, though it's probably gone up a bit. If i remember correctly, it was about 40% of NYC.
It doesn't feel expensive.


That's definitely good to hear. Sounds like it wouldn't be too much more than where I am now. Maybe less when you factor everything in.




Overall, I'd highly recommend Portland. I've lived in Philly, NYC, and some other places and this was the best move of my life.

I'm glad you enjoy it :) I remember being able to see Mount St. Helens from Portland, hopefully it doesn't blow anytime soon :p

Keith and stuff
10-08-2011, 01:44 PM
People talk of a future with NH being taken over by liberals from MA but it is already pretty excepted that OR was partly taken over by liberals from CA, especially the main population area, Portland.


1. A state with a good economy where I can have a stable full time job.

OR has traditionally had an average or below average economy, at least for the last 20 years. NH used to have an average economy but then got caught up in the tech rise in the 90s and now has the best economy in the Northeast. However, some of the folks that live in NH do work in MA because there are a lot of specialized good paying jobs in the part of MA near Boston (it is one of the top tech sectors in the US and is the top college sector in the US.) I have no doubt you will be able to find some job in Portland (because the population is so large) or in the Manchester/Nashua area (because the economy is doing well compared to just about everywhere else in the US.)

It's funny because OR has a stupidly high minimum wage but the median household income is like $15k higher in NH even though the minimum wage in NH is several dollars per hour lower (it is the federal rate, the lowest rate possible.)


3. A political climate that is ripe for the picking, where us liberty minded people can gain a foothold.

IMO, NH has the easiest political system in the US for an activist to make a difference in. Liberty minded folks are moving to NH and getting organized. That isn't happening in OR. I've never heard of a liberty activist moving to OR for liberty. It doesn't happen.



4. I do plan to run for political office there.

You can get elected in most of OR. Just say you are a progressive and run on a platform of big government. Of course, if you don't deliver big government, don't be surprised if you are not reelected. In NH, there are Democratic areas (like Cheshire County and the college town.)

Don't even bother to run as a Democrat in NH. FSPers have helped bring about some much liberty in NH that the Democratic Party machine bosses are pissed in NH. If you want to get elected in NH, I can walk you through it step-by-step and get you elected to state house. Now, a state rep makes 50 cents per mile when driving to the state house and $100 per year. Except to put in anywhere from 20-60 hours per week for about 1/2 the year without getting paid.


5. The political make-up is a factor. Like are the majority of the citizens socialists/liberals/libertarians/true conservatives/big gov conservatives/etc.


http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2011/02/gallup_oregon_washington_among.html
Liberals:
OR 26.3%
NH 22.7%

Conservatives:
OR 34.5%
NH 37.6%

Lean Democrat:
OR 47.5%
NH 37.9%

Lean Republican:
OR 35.8%
NH 47%


6. Weather. I don't want to move to a state where that constantly has floods or hurricanes or tornadoes.

Hurricanes are typically an extremely minor issue in NH and not an issue in OR. Tornadoes are typically not an issue in either state. I have no idea about flooding in OR but I know there is lot less rain in western OR than in NH. It does flood a little in NH, typically in the spring if the snow melts too fast. People in NH pretty much know where it is going to flood and little is done to stop it because it's usually a very minor issue. It is not at all like the flooding in ND or along the MS River.

OR tends to be warmer in the winter and cooler (at least eastern OR) in the summer than NH. While it is sunny in NH in the winter, it does snow and people that don't get outside at all sometimes get a little depressed. It tends to be a lot less sunny in OR in the winter and rain frequently instead of snowing (except in the mountains where it snows a lot.)

Depression is a more serious issue in the winter in OR/WA because there isn't much sun. I've been told that some people that move from AZ/FL to OR/WA/AK or even the Northeast can use a heat lamp or take vitamin D to help if they feel depressed by the lack of sun light. And again, as for NH, there is actually a decent amount of sunlight, but you have to take up a winter sport (skiing, sledding, snow boarding, ice fishing...) to get a lot of exposure to it. In OR, just being outside might not be enough for some people because it is more gray and less sunny outside.


7. Personal freedom.

OR really shines as it is one of the few places where it is legal for a doctor to kill their patient, does not allow DUI check points and it has decent pot laws. NH is the only state with no adult seatbelt law, no learner's permit program or no auto insurance requirement. NH also bans camera tickets (speeding or red light.) Weapon and self defense laws are much better in NH.



10. Cost of living.

More expensive in NH: Housing, electric, heat (especially if you don't use wood)
More expensive in OR: Gas, alcohol, overall car care, income tax (for almost everyone it is b/t 9% and 11% which might make it the highest in the US, NH doesn't even tax wages at all)

Property taxes are about the same even though OR has a 11% income tax.

Keith and stuff
10-08-2011, 02:01 PM
PS: I do have one question for those living in NH right now. What would you say is the job environment like for Physical Therapy Assistants in NH? I know they are extremely in demand here in Florida, but that is because we have a lot of old-folks in retirement. Just curious on my job prospects in NH. Thanks!

Some of the silly panic type folks in NH consider the aging population in NH one of the major negative issues facing NH in the future. I was an occupational therapy assistant in the military and I don't see many of those jobs in NH. I've seen postings for PTA jobs in NH and MA, though. People are older than average in NH but there are large groups of 45-65 year old folks, not the 65-85 year old folks. My guess is you can find a job but it might take a while. However, the job market should get better and better in your field with every passing year.

Of course, if you went into nursing or something, you would be set for life ;)

Here is the title the crazy NPR folks gave it, "New Hampshire’s “Silver Tsunami” : A Sea Change in Healthcare Costs"
http://stateimpact.npr.org/new-hampshire/2011/09/28/new-hampshires-silver-tsunami-a-sea-change-in-healthcare-costs/



New Hampshire has a higher percentage of baby boomers on average than most of the nation: 30 percent.


Right now, New Hampshire ranks second-highest in the nation for the percentage of residents who have private health insurance through their employer. But says Norton as New Hampshire’s large boomer population ages into retirement, they will shift from private health insurance into Medicare.


“We’re 10 years away from it right now. We’re in our economic prime right now, and now is time we should be thinking about, it not 10 years from now when we’re in it.”

Carehn
10-08-2011, 02:08 PM
Im from Oregon and it is very left wing, but not in a california way. Just a heads up. also the voting block just west of the cascades is not small so if you think a FSP type of program will work then think again. But wonderful state and better then most.

ronpaulnh2012
10-08-2011, 02:41 PM
1. A state with a good economy where I can have a stable full time job.

NH is among the best (#4 in nation at 5.3%). Oregon is among the worst (#39 in nation at 9.6%).


2. For that state to be among the most free and Constitutional

NH takes US constitution seriously and our state constitution is among the strongest; it even includes a "Right of Revolution".


3. A political climate that is ripe for the picking, where us liberty minded people can gain a foothold.

New Hampshire has a liberty-oriented mindset, the state motto is "Live Free or Die" and it still has meaning.


4. I do plan to run for political office there.

NH is probably the best place to do so, dozens of Free State Project participants have already been elected, plus hundreds of non-FSP liberty-oriented individuals.


5. The political make-up is a factor. Like are the majority of the citizens socialists/liberals/libertarians/true conservatives/big gov conservatives/etc.

NH is a moderately conservative state. Oregon is very liberal.


6. Weather. I don't want to move to a state where that constantly has floods or hurricanes or tornadoes.

Both NH and Oregon have very low risk of of natural disaster.


7. Personal freedom.

I can't speak for Oregon on this (and you've already seen the studies) but I can say that NH very much has a "live and let live" attitude.


8. I will be a political activist.

Due to the Free State Project, NH definitely wins in this regard.


9. Job market. Like what kind of jobs are there in the state, are there jobs to find, how is unemployment, etc.

No contest, see #1.


10. Cost of living.

NH and Oregon are similar in this regard. However, NH has higher income (highest median income in US) so it works out better here overall.

Carehn
10-08-2011, 02:55 PM
Oregon Is liberal but in a libertarian leaning way. The hunting laws suck. the property tax is HIGH. You cant pump your own gas. You cant drive faster then 65 anywhere. Mostly 55. People lean to the left but like freedom per say. You would do well on the west or middle part. the east is mostly sand and juniper bush. the high dessert you know. Kinda like you would see in an old western movie. Small towns where you will find your christian right. reminds me of the book THE GUNSLINGER.

If you really want to know about oregon then PM me with any questions. I lived in Oregon for 22 years. Now in Idaho.

thehungarian
10-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Oregon. They have Bigfoots there and you must find one. The Constitution demands it.

Austrian Econ Disciple
10-08-2011, 03:33 PM
Some of the silly panic type folks in NH consider the aging population in NH one of the major negative issues facing NH in the future. I was an occupational therapy assistant in the military and I don't see many of those jobs in NH. I've seen postings for PTA jobs in NH and MA, though. People are older than average in NH but there are large groups of 45-65 year old folks, not the 65-85 year old folks. My guess is you can find a job but it might take a while. However, the job market should get better and better in your field with every passing year.

Of course, if you went into nursing or something, you would be set for life ;)

Here is the title the crazy NPR folks gave it, "New Hampshire’s “Silver Tsunami” : A Sea Change in Healthcare Costs"
http://stateimpact.npr.org/new-hampshire/2011/09/28/new-hampshires-silver-tsunami-a-sea-change-in-healthcare-costs/

Thanks a lot. For someone who wants to move to the Northern part of the state in the more mountainous region (Grafton/Whitefield and north of there, etc.), what would you say would be the commute time? I don't mind driving a hour or so. I really do not want a job in MA as that defeats the whole purpose of moving there to have no income tax; in fact it would be worse because I all ready pay zero income tax as I am a Florida resident.

NickOdell
10-08-2011, 03:42 PM
I live in Oregon. Very anti capitalist. I would go with NH.

AGRP
10-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Oregon is the Democrat version of Kentucky. The statism can make you barf, probably because statism is its economy (horrible job climate). Filled with the ignorant people like you see marching against Wall Street.

Politics: NH

Freedom: OR (depending were you live)

Most conservative area in OR: Southern (Medford). Beautiful area. I would suggest living there if you want to get into politics with a Ron Paul perspective.

Keith and stuff
10-08-2011, 03:45 PM
Thanks a lot. For someone who wants to move to the Northern part of the state in the more mountainous region (Grafton/Whitefield and north of there, etc.), what would you say would be the commute time? I don't mind driving a hour or so. I really do not want a job in MA as that defeats the whole purpose of moving there to have no income tax; in fact it would be worse because I all ready pay zero income tax as I am a Florida resident.

This is a guess but... since 4/5ths of the population is in the southern 3rd of NH, there are a lot less jobs in central NH (like Grafton.) However, Grafton is a 35-60 minute commute to the entire Concord area and also to the Hanover/ Dartmouth/ White River Junction area. So as long as you are willing to drive around an hour in bad weather there are plenty of jobs. Dartmouth is one of the major medical centers in NH (the major?) and if you work anywhere at the medical research facilities there is a bus that takes you most of the way for free.

There are definitely jobs in central NH but there are a lot less. Maybe you move to NH and find a job in your field within a month or so in southern NH/ MA. Or you could just move to central or northern NH and work at a job that isn't in your field. After a year or so of networking and looking you will likely be able to find a job in your field in central or northern NH.

You know about the excellent resource page for find jobs in NH right?
http://freestateproject.org/jobs

As for political activism in northern NH, it is done pretty different than in southern NH. Up there most people know many of their neighbors. People will wonder about you if you move there. Just don't make any waves, volunteer in the community, be nice to folks and try to spend a couple years helping local liberty leaning folks get elected before you try to run for office.

libertybrewcity
10-08-2011, 04:14 PM
Population of NH 1.3 million

Population of Oregon 3.8

you have a much greater chance of making a difference in NH than OR.

John F Kennedy III
10-08-2011, 05:28 PM
People talk of a future with NH being taken over by liberals from MA but it is already pretty excepted that OR was partly taken over by liberals from CA, especially the main population area, Portland.



OR has traditionally had an average or below average economy, at least for the last 20 years. NH used to have an average economy but then got caught up in the tech rise in the 90s and now has the best economy in the Northeast. However, some of the folks that live in NH do work in MA because there are a lot of specialized good paying jobs in the part of MA near Boston (it is one of the top tech sectors in the US and is the top college sector in the US.) I have no doubt you will be able to find some job in Portland (because the population is so large) or in the Manchester/Nashua area (because the economy is doing well compared to just about everywhere else in the US.)

It's funny because OR has a stupidly high minimum wage but the median household income is like $15k higher in NH even though the minimum wage in NH is several dollars per hour lower (it is the federal rate, the lowest rate possible.)



IMO, NH has the easiest political system in the US for an activist to make a difference in. Liberty minded folks are moving to NH and getting organized. That isn't happening in OR. I've never heard of a liberty activist moving to OR for liberty. It doesn't happen.



You can get elected in most of OR. Just say you are a progressive and run on a platform of big government. Of course, if you don't deliver big government, don't be surprised if you are not reelected. In NH, there are Democratic areas (like Cheshire County and the college town.)

Don't even bother to run as a Democrat in NH. FSPers have helped bring about some much liberty in NH that the Democratic Party machine bosses are pissed in NH. If you want to get elected in NH, I can walk you through it step-by-step and get you elected to state house. Now, a state rep makes 50 cents per mile when driving to the state house and $100 per year. Except to put in anywhere from 20-60 hours per week for about 1/2 the year without getting paid.



http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2011/02/gallup_oregon_washington_among.html
Liberals:
OR 26.3%
NH 22.7%

Conservatives:
OR 34.5%
NH 37.6%

Lean Democrat:
OR 47.5%
NH 37.9%

Lean Republican:
OR 35.8%
NH 47%



Hurricanes are typically an extremely minor issue in NH and not an issue in OR. Tornadoes are typically not an issue in either state. I have no idea about flooding in OR but I know there is lot less rain in western OR than in NH. It does flood a little in NH, typically in the spring if the snow melts too fast. People in NH pretty much know where it is going to flood and little is done to stop it because it's usually a very minor issue. It is not at all like the flooding in ND or along the MS River.

OR tends to be warmer in the winter and cooler (at least eastern OR) in the summer than NH. While it is sunny in NH in the winter, it does snow and people that don't get outside at all sometimes get a little depressed. It tends to be a lot less sunny in OR in the winter and rain frequently instead of snowing (except in the mountains where it snows a lot.)

Depression is a more serious issue in the winter in OR/WA because there isn't much sun. I've been told that some people that move from AZ/FL to OR/WA/AK or even the Northeast can use a heat lamp or take vitamin D to help if they feel depressed by the lack of sun light. And again, as for NH, there is actually a decent amount of sunlight, but you have to take up a winter sport (skiing, sledding, snow boarding, ice fishing...) to get a lot of exposure to it. In OR, just being outside might not be enough for some people because it is more gray and less sunny outside.



OR really shines as it is one of the few places where it is legal for a doctor to kill their patient, does not allow DUI check points and it has decent pot laws. NH is the only state with no adult seatbelt law, no learner's permit program or no auto insurance requirement. NH also bans camera tickets (speeding or red light.) Weapon and self defense laws are much better in NH.



More expensive in NH: Housing, electric, heat (especially if you don't use wood)
More expensive in OR: Gas, alcohol, overall car care, income tax (for almost everyone it is b/t 9% and 11% which might make it the highest in the US, NH doesn't even tax wages at all)

Property taxes are about the same even though OR has a 11% income tax.

I am officially picking New Hampshire. Where do I sign? Lol.

Last thing I need to figure out is what part of NH to move to.

I am aiming to move there in January 2014. Could end up being off by a few months, but I need time to get everything in order and get some skill sets together so I can get a job better than just flipping burgers. I would take that job if I have to but they are low paying and tend to be part time.

Keith and stuff
10-08-2011, 05:35 PM
I am aiming to move there in January 2014. Could end up being off by a few months, but I need time to get everything in order and get some skill sets together so I can get a job better than just flipping burgers. I would take that job if I have to but they are low paying and tend to be part time.

You sign right here :) There is a big underlined join at the bottom and it also has a join on the left side, http://freestateproject.org/intro/ron_paul

The FSP has excellent resources for finding a place to live and for finding a job. I recommend that people typically start out renting a room (if single) or an apartment in the Manchester area (Manchester, Derry, Salem, Nashua...) put start looking for a job even before they move. The FSP resources are fantastic.
housing http://freestateproject.org/nhinfo/Housing.php
job http://freestateproject.org/jobs

puppetmaster
10-08-2011, 05:36 PM
out of those two.....NH

John F Kennedy III
10-08-2011, 07:30 PM
You sign right here :) There is a big underlined join at the bottom and it also has a join on the left side, http://freestateproject.org/intro/ron_paul

The FSP has excellent resources for finding a place to live and for finding a job. I recommend that people typically start out renting a room (if single) or an apartment in the Manchester area (Manchester, Derry, Salem, Nashua...) put start looking for a job even before they move. The FSP resources are fantastic.
housing http://freestateproject.org/nhinfo/Housing.php
job http://freestateproject.org/jobs

Thank you :)

speciallyblend
10-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Colorado

affa
10-08-2011, 08:39 PM
Affa the people i have met in Oregon while visiting were liberty minded towards weed and other personal liberty items, but guns, money, and rights they wanted dictated by "the people" weren't. A lot of Obama signs, anti-capitalist rhetoric, and environmentalist from my experience. I'm glad you like it though. I'm just saying as a radical libertarian like myself i hated my stay there and way disappoint many times just talking with the locals.

Those people are perfect for outreach, though. As mentioned, yes, a lot of people here were for Obama, but that's because he promised peace, and there is a huge anti-war contingent here. Those people are fed up with him. The education level on various issues like the Fed tends to be high here, too.

Yes, not everyone is on the same page, but there are a ton of open minds here. You're not dealing with a bunch of tow the line Democrats, you're dealing with people promised peace who didn't get it.

affa
10-08-2011, 08:57 PM
I lived in Portland from age 3-6. I remember lots of rain and snow. Lol. This would be 1990-1993. My favorite basketball team is still the Portland Trail Blazers.


Lots of drizzle, almost never snows. We had a blizzard (first one in 30 years, I hear) maybe 4 years ago? Watching Oregon drivers deal with snow was hilarious coming from the eyes of a born and raised East coaster.




Radicalized? And what is a coop? Anti-war good, Obama bad.


By radicalized, I mean there are a lot of people engaged in politics and community. For example, there are anarchist book stores around town -- an entire community, really. Fringe topics are acceptable for discussion. More people care about politics, and it's easy to fall into a conversation about the advantage/disadvantages of, say, secession, or bankers, or whatever.

'Coop' is short for 'cooperatively owned', which translates into either worker owned or member owned. A grocery store that we often buy from is member-owned. You pay a small membership fee (for a couple years, then you're a perma-member). You can ask for your entire membership fee back at any time (say, if you move).

Then there are worker owned places -- Full Sail Brewery out in Hood River, for example. Several bike shops, coffee shops, etc. Full Sail was gifted to it's employees by the owner, as was Bob's Red Mill, which is also a relatively well-known national brand. It's the kind of thing that's done here, far more than elsewhere in my experience.

This is the kind of city that would adopt an alternate local currency in a heartbeat were it at all legal (and in fact, it's been tried on the down low).



I highly prefer the weather here in central Cali. But there has to be some sort of trade off in exchange for getting away from the big government crap here.


The winter can be dreary, but the rest of the year makes up for it in my opinion. Most of the rain is light drizzle -- the kind that dries as soon as it hits you. That's far more common than the 'rain' we'd have on the east coast, where it was thick. Basically, I just mean it's more drizzle, and rarely feels like you're in a storm.

Also, humidity is surprisingly low in the summer, so even heat during the summer doesn't feel bad.




If I do move up there maybe I could live outside of Portland. I'm not sure. I plan on waiting 2 years before I move and spending that time getting things in order. By the time I move I will have some skill sets so the job thing might not be as big of a problem.


Yea, some people move here and have a hard time finding work, others don't. One thing i noticed is that things are slower here... for example, if you're from the east coast you'll look like a whirlwind at most jobs, since you'll be doing things twice as fast as locals.



That's definitely good to hear. Sounds like it wouldn't be too much more than where I am now. Maybe less when you factor everything in.


The lack of sales tax is really nice.

libertybrewcity
10-08-2011, 10:48 PM
Colorado

yea, I'd much rather choose Colorado over Oregon. Although I do love Oregon country.

Keith and stuff
10-08-2011, 11:40 PM
yea, I'd much rather choose Colorado over Oregon. Although I do love Oregon country.

Well, CO is freer than OR, and more liberty training happens in CO. However, Ron Paul did worse in CO in 2008 than in OR.

But I think most people that aren't liberals would rather not live in OR. In fact, it makes more sense to live in WA near the OR border (north of Portland) if possible. That way you can live in WA and pay property taxes (about the same as OR or NH or VT) and not pay an income tax for working (like NH) and do your shopping monthly in OR and not pay a sales tax (like in NH.) Sure, it may take 45 min to and hour to go in OR and shop and the same amount of time to go back, but by making the weekly commute (not that big a sacrifice) you don't pay income or sales tax. It's like you live on the West Coast but live like a person would live in NH. If you really want to be on the West Coast, it is worth it.

Frankly, I just cannot imagine moving to OR for liberty. I'm still waiting to find the first pro-liberty activist that actually do it.

Xenophage
10-09-2011, 03:35 AM
I live outside Portland, Oregon and it is a liberal hell hole. You've never seen so many Obama bumper stickers in your life. The taxes are extremely high in this state, and there are some of the stupidest laws nationwide. For instance, it is illegal to pump your own gas at a gas station. Also, the cops are all assholes and there have been multiple incidents of police brutality and murder on the news since I've moved here.

Portland is populated overwhelmingly by hippies, hipsters, and porcelain tower liberals. I've lived here for over three years now and I've never met another libertarian, or another Ron Paul supporter. I feel completely alone politically.

Furthermore, the job market is absolutely horrible. Everyone is on unemployment until their benefits expire. It's disgusting.

Why do I live here?

I don't even know.

WilliamShrugged
10-09-2011, 08:15 AM
I live outside Portland, Oregon and it is a liberal hell hole. You've never seen so many Obama bumper stickers in your life. The taxes are extremely high in this state, and there are some of the stupidest laws nationwide. For instance, it is illegal to pump your own gas at a gas station. Also, the cops are all assholes and there have been multiple incidents of police brutality and murder on the news since I've moved here.

Portland is populated overwhelmingly by hippies, hipsters, and porcelain tower liberals. I've lived here for over three years now and I've never met another libertarian, or another Ron Paul supporter. I feel completely alone politically.

Furthermore, the job market is absolutely horrible. Everyone is on unemployment until their benefits expire. It's disgusting.

Why do I live here?

I don't even know.

At least move to Idaho. Im not saying its going to be better than NH, but better than Oregon. Hell i work with a fellow RP support (i've only been here for 2 months). I've seen a lot of Ron Paul bumper stickers here and most people that i have talked to are republican, but not war hawks by any means. They just get their news from the paper or tv. So i see tons of potential here if we are able to educate here.

fj45lvr
10-09-2011, 08:34 AM
oregon is primarily rural and the majority of the population is crammed into small portion of the state and is primarily "progressive"/socialists the vast majority of the state is rural and natural resource based and not real keen on the lefties controlling them. If you want a job outside of natural resource industies you will be surrounded by the leftists....if that isn't a priority you can live in BFE and just flip off these idiots and do your own thing in relative solitude.

raystone
10-09-2011, 09:09 AM
For younger people, it's always enjoyable to do geographical comparisons, to think about living with more freedom, and dream of life in a new setting. Normally unencumbered with a spouse, children, a mortgage, as it is.

As you get older, however, and start a family, what ends up dictating your location is almost always your extended family's location, and/or your spouse's family location. Why? Support network. As you've heard before, children change your life in ways you can't imagine, and one thing you need are people you can trust implicitly. It turns out the only people you trust this much to help care for your children, babysit your children, and provide positive role modeling for your children are your relatives. Plus, you want your growing children to know their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins.

At the same time, if you want to successfully run for state or federal office in the future, you'll need supporters that know you very well. Most campaign donors that make up the majority of funds for local state and federal races will only cough up a max donation of say $1k to someone they have known for years. Someone who's judgment they know to be above average, and who's character has been tested in the community.

I agree we need liberty minded individuals in the majority of elected positions, from local school board to POTUS. Retaking the power centers may be the only peaceful method of saving the country. In my opinion, with the parameters of family proximity and reputation building in mind, I say stay home and fight. If you have family in a particular location, or a job you like in a location now, be lighting brushfires of freedom where you are now.

You live in a socialist hellhole ? Build a local coalition and take over your city council, town board, or county GOP party. It only takes about 4% of swing voters to win most elections. A small effort towards organizing pays big dividends.

Or, start a local food sovereignty resolution movement. Local food combines liberals and conservatives in the cause of liberty. From there, comes growing 10th amendment awareness and possibly your support to successfully win office as an Independent.

Warriors for liberty are needed *everywhere*. Write a letter to the editor, canvass some neighborhood doors, organize and promote a local healthcare freedom speaker in your community, attend a political meeting. Find out the attitude towards liberty of your county board supervisor. Is he or she a nanny stater ? *No one* will run against them except for you. (You may even have an open seat district for which they are scrambling to find *anyone* to run.) For spring elections, candidate names need be registered in January. Take the first step to putting your name on a local election ballot right now.

Keith and stuff
10-09-2011, 11:00 AM
You live in a socialist hellhole ? Build a local coalition and take over your city council, town board, or county GOP party. It only takes about 4% of swing voters to win most elections. A small effort towards organizing pays big dividends.

IMO that is very unrealistic. Some areas don't swing at all. For example, in 2010 NH went overwhelming Republican. The state senate went from majority Democrat to 19-5 Republican. The house of reps went from majority Democrat to 299-101 Republican. However, all of the Democratic candidates won every ward in the city I live in by a large margin. Maybe 1/4 of the communities in NH don't swing at all.

City council is very hard to change in a lot of places. Frequently the elections are non-partisan and turn out is low (except among city workers.) If you aren't a supporter of unions and expanding the city budget, good luck swinging government workers to vote for you.

I like your optimism though :)

Echo
10-16-2011, 05:00 PM
Yes. Terrible weather. And Fargo floods and if you live somewhere else in the state it seems to require living out of your car or mobile home unless you want to pay $200-$300 a night for a hotel.

As someone born and raised in ND, and is planning to live there after college (and run for some type of office), I can tell you that alot of what you hear about ND weather is sterotype. The floods will be much more manageable from now on considering that we're really hitting the planning hard for permanent flood protection and management. Also, if you're ever going to be in a natural disaster, nd is the best place to be, the people are exceptionally kind-hearted, the whole country was astounded when less than a third of the trailers fema provided in minot were used because all the others found someone who took them in. :) I know I'm probably facing a steep hill, but I strongly urge you to reconsider. Also, after next year, we may have no property taxes to pay!!

Echo
10-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Yes. Terrible weather. And Fargo floods and if you live somewhere else in the state it seems to require living out of your car or mobile home unless you want to pay $200-$300 a night for a hotel.

also, I like Fargo, but if fargo's not for you, I'd def check out Bismarck...it's warmer there too...a bit. :P

aravoth
10-16-2011, 05:20 PM
move to Oregon, if you're near the portland area I'll even help you unpack.

Keith and stuff
10-16-2011, 06:15 PM
I can tell you that alot of what you hear about ND weather is sterotype.

But ND has the worst weather in the entire US. OK, sure, in parts of Alaska where no one lives the weather is worse. However, in the more populated areas, the weather is worse in ND than even AK. I tell you, NH came in last out of the 10 states in the FSP which state vote in 2003. As far as I know, the only people moving to ND from other areas for lower taxes are a few folks from MN or IA. I don't even know of any liberty political training groups based in or that even travel to ND. I would recommend SD over ND any day of the week.

As for the ND tax structure, it's already way to centrally regulated. ND is a huge welfare state. The state gets a ton more in federal dollars than the people of ND pay to Washington DC. It is sickening, really. Plus the state collects state sales and state income taxes. If the property taxes were abolished most of the local taxes, the local control over spending would be gone. Of course, the taxes the state controls would go up. If that happens, ND will be completely upside down in tax policy. It will have the least local control in the country. Ideally, there wouldn't be hardly any or any federal taxes and states taxes would be as low as possible. For for direct local control, you need the majority of taxes being local sale taxes, property taxes and or user fees. That's a system of government where the power is closest to the people.

As for NH, please check this out, http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons

John F Kennedy III
10-24-2011, 04:25 PM
This sounds like an amazing place to live :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester,_nh

anaconda
10-24-2011, 04:32 PM
Oregon? That state sucks! Taxes, crappy speed limits, lefties all over the place. Portland sucks big time! The best thing about the state is the beautiful scenery except around Jordan Valley. But you get tired of the Green and trees fast and the rainy weather is depressing.

I love Oregon! But I like a certain amount of rainy weather. I believe I prefer Washington over Oregon, however, for climate, landscapes, etc. I live in CA.

anaconda
10-24-2011, 04:37 PM
I saw two large Ron Paul signs several miles apart in Oregon last year off of I5 about an hour south of Eugene. But that was definitely not an urban environment.

Endgame
10-27-2011, 02:53 AM
blah