What the hell is with these protestors and student debt?

[AZKing]

I've been trying to ignore these protests (mainly because they're disingenuous), but whenever I hear about them one of the first things mentioned is forgiving student debt.

I'm curious how others feel about this.

My personal opinion is that I don't feel bad for you at all if you have massive amounts of student debt. No one forced you to go to a university, or forced you to get a useless degree for which there's no jobs. I had to get an AA degree from my community college so that I could transfer to a university (for exactly the reason that I wouldn't have a massive amount of debt). Why do people seem to insist that they need to go to a $60k+ university to get a degree that can be gotten for $5k in a community college? If you can't afford university without getting a massive loan, don't go to one!

[Lucille]

Pathetic how they're demanding more government to solve their problem, when government created the college bubble (and the health care bubble, and the housing bubble, and every other problem they're protesting).

[Carehn]

I've been trying to ignore these protests (mainly because they're disingenuous), but whenever I hear about them one of the first things mentioned is forgiving student debt.

I'm curious how others feel about this.

My personal opinion is that I don't feel bad for you at all if you have massive amounts of student debt. No one forced you to go to a university, or forced you to get a useless degree for which there's no jobs. I had to get an AA degree from my community college so that I could transfer to a university (for exactly the reason that I wouldn't have a massive amount of debt). Why do people seem to insist that they need to go to a $60k+ university to get a degree that can be gotten for $5k in a community college? If you can't afford it without getting a massive loan, don't go to one!

They are under water just like those in the housing market. Thats all, only the banks lobied to make it impossible to claim bankruptcy (foreclose). Only the market will not let this game go on for long. One way or another they will default on the debt.

Bankruptcy is a healthy part of a free market. It helps things reset and puts a restriction on banks to loan to much. I would loan all the money i could get to students knowing they will never ever ever be able to stiff me. Thats a big moral problem that is enforced by law and the protests are showing it.

Yes many of them made horrible choices and will have to pay for it, but the banks where to loose and the money flooding into these collages drove the price up.

I feel for them, I think many of the solutions they present are wrong. They are slaves to debt and they slaves are rebelling. Now if only they had some good intellectual leadership.

We should be at these things. Its a lower class of people upset about the same things the tea party was upset about, and like the tea party they don't know the real cause. Unlike the tea party they are young and advocate for different solutions.

[Lucille]

pardon my stutter

[ItsTime]

Because they are greedy. The same exact thing they are protesting. Ironic isn't it?

[Elfshadow]

saddly the college bubble teaches them that government is the answer. They learned economics and political science at these schools.

[Sola_Fide]

I sympathize with the anger at student debt. But the anger is misplaced.

They don't understand that the FED has created this entire environment of borrowing ourselves into debt. Add on top of that government subsidizing student loans and you have the predicament we have today.

I have no problem blaming government for this environment of debt we have today. These guys at the protests need to read End The Fed at least once just to understand the root of the problem.

[AuH20]

Education is a right which I expect you to pay for (sarcasm).

[dannno]

Ron Paul has actually said that students who were talked into going into massive debt for their education have been "abused" during his speech to the National Press Club.

I don't remember where it is exactly, but this is well worth watching, maybe somebody else can post the point in the video where he talks about it:

http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/10/ron-paul-national-press-club-speech-oct-5-2011/


I don't think that means Ron Paul wants to forgive all students for all of their debt for free, but I would be willing to bet he would go for some type of thing where if the federal govt. stopped backing these loans, the students who still had debt could have partial forgiveness or would be able to claim a special type of bankruptcy.

[specsaregood]

Why do people seem to insist that they need to go to a $60k+ university to get a degree that can be gotten for $5k in a community college? If you can't afford university without getting a massive loan, don't go to one!

I like and respect community colleges having attended them myself. But I was not aware of community colleges offering Bachelors, Masters or PHDs. Can you name a few that do?

[VBRonPaulFan]

Education is a right which I expect you to pay for (sarcasm).

You ask those people who do you shoot/throw in jail when someone doesn't get a solid education...

[specsaregood]

Education is a right which I expect you to pay for (sarcasm).

Laugh all you want, but we could have sent every single person in the US to university for less than we have spent on these wars. AND we'd probably have something more to show for it other than blood on our hands.

[AuH20]

Laugh all you want, but we could have sent every single person in the US to university for less than we have spent on these wars. AND we'd probably have something more to show for it other than blood on our hands.

Too bad the educational system is basically a conditioning station for the state.

[specsaregood]

Too bad the educational system is basically a conditioning station for the state.
I have no disagreement with that.
How about instead, we could have sent everybody to a trade school for less than these stupid effing wars. How does that suit you?

[AuH20]

I have no disagreement with that.
How about instead, we could have sent everybody to a trade school for less than these stupid effing wars. How does that suit you?

Yes. If we have to spend, trade schools are far better.

[specsaregood]

Yes. If we have to spend, trade schools are far better.

My point is many of these people are young, they went to school because that is what they were expected to do. They thought they were going to to better themselves and get a degree so they can get a career and family etc.

In the meantime, our country has blown trillions blowing up foreigners and rebuilding their countries; putting the costs on the backs of the future generations (these protestors included). So not only do they have a huge amount of debt personally that they can't discharge; but they find themselves in a shitty economy and a country with even more debt that they are supposedly expected to take the cuts to pay back. There is plenty of reason to be upset.

[Rothbardian Girl]

The way college education is sold is one of the most dishonest, disingenuous things I have ever had the misfortune of being a part of. As a high school student, I was constantly sold on how college is absolutely necessary to find a job, and the only ones worth going to were four-year institutions (community colleges are for lazy people who aren't good enough for four-year schools). The saddest thing was that the people whom I was supposed to trust (various school officials, counselors, etc) were all pushing like mad to get me to become a part of this racket. Even my own parents, probably because both of them never attended college, would not listen to me when I mentioned community college as maybe a decent, cheaper alternative. I will probably be about ~30k in student debt by the time I am out of Auburn, and my parents will be saddled with a big bill as well. Even the instate schools like Penn State and Pitt are going to become much more expensive.

I'm not criticizing this need to pare down the size of government. I realize wherever the government downsizes, that is a good thing. There are such things as misplaced priorities, though. It just seems like the rhetoric that has been pushed in recent years -- "everyone has to go to college" -- has led to many people going to college when they just don't belong there. I was cautiously optimistic when I first came to Auburn, and I have to tell you, I've met some extremely smart people, but there are just as many dunces here as there were in high school. I think that is the main problem; how colleges have fewer funds to give out to more deserving students because of the oft-repeated mantra that everyone needs to go, when that should not be true. Unfortunately, I guess it is now as a side effect of that mentality, because just about everyone has a college degree these days.

And the dilemma is, how do we gauge whether someone is deserving of acceptance or monetary funding to go to college? I was a slacker in high school because I was extremely bored for all four years. Someone looking at my GPA (but not my SAT scores) would have probably assumed that I was of average intelligence... but I was just bored in the school system and didn't see the point of doing mindless busywork every day. I've since realized the errors of my ways, unfortunately, but I don't think high GPA necessarily correlates to intelligence. Some of the people I've met with 4.0 GPAs are incredibly, incredibly uninformed about many things.

[s35wf]

Moneywise their SOL cuz they have massive loans (? interest rate). Student Loans are non dischargeable debt. Cannot get rid of with bankruptcy. If you fall into default add lots of penalties & late fees (which also accumulate interest). You go to school to for some professional degree expecting to make 100K+ year but economy crashes and your working at McDonalds or Walmart for $8-$10 hour. Your f*cked. and then really f*cked when they begin to garnish your wages. Poor kids.:(

[wannaberocker]

This call to forgive all student debt actually started on socialist blogs a month or so before the protests started. I know a few socialist and they kept posting articles that said "all student loans should be forgiven because it would be a stimulus for the economy". But then the protests started and the same point kept coming up. So this idea is not an in the moment sort of idea. This idea has been floating around socialist blogs for a while now.

[Valli6]

Why haven't any of these angry students ever considered going "on strike" against the college-industrial complex? :confused:
A year or 2 without any students should encourage more reasonable pricing amongst them, shouldn't it?

[Carehn]

Laugh all you want, but we could have sent every single person in the US to university for less than we have spent on these wars. AND we'd probably have something more to show for it other than blood on our hands.
A bad investment vs a worse investment is not a choice.
the hoover dam was a better investment then the war. and wealth is an abstract thought so we may differ on some investments but what we will come to agree on if we are both honest is that the free market would provide both of us with more wealth, a better bang for the buck if you will then any government action.

[specsaregood]

A bad investment vs a worse investment is not a choice.
the hoover dam was a better investment then the war. and wealth is an abstract thought so we may differ on some investments but what we will come to agree on if we are both honest is that the free market would provide both of us with more wealth, a better bang for the buck if you will then any government action.

I don't disagree with that. But if those were the only choices I'd much rather our country be in too much debt from over educating rather than over bombing and killing.

[Carehn]

I don't disagree with that. But if those were the only choices I'd much rather our country be in too much debt from over educating rather than over bombing and killing.
I agree but those are not the only 2 choices. They will never be the only 2 choices. Never use economic models to come to a conclusion in economics. Simply look at the real economy to do that.

[ZanZibar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIF_Osmbh6s&feature=email

[Working Poor]

I have heard Ron say that the debt needs to be liquidated does he mean only the government debt or all debt?

[CaptainAmerica]

apparently they are the "99%" whatever the hell that means, and they are too BIG to fail for stupid decisions they made in life.

[talkingpointes]

I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for the most part when people make mistakes involving bad purchases. You either learn from your mistakes or you don't, but don't push the responsibility on too others. You got what you asked for and couldn't afford it in the end, that is your fault. The crowd chanting for entitlements and government power is making me sick.

[Birdlady]

This is a complex issue.

In high school we are told you have to go to college. Our parents, teachers and even schools push us to go to college like it's some sort of rite of passage. I am very much against college. Unless you are going to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer or scientist, it's pretty useless for most people. Some of the most successful people in the world did not go to college or started to and dropped out.

These days college is considered a destination. Your entire youth is about "going to college" and there isn't much emphasis placed on what you want to do AFTERWARD. Many think like someone is going to walk up to them and immediately give them work... College should be looked at as an investment. If YOU invested and did not get what you expected, then you shouldn't expect the govt to bail you out. Period.

People go to school for 4 years, get out and have no idea what they want to do. Well reality check is that, you were supposed to figure that out before you signed up for college. After spending tens of thousands of dollars many realize they don't even like their major or they realize they now need a Master's degree or something else to get an entry level job somewhere. Because everyone has college degrees these days, they mean very little. It's not like many decade ago where it was actually considered special if you went to college... A college degree is now just about as valuable as a high school diploma.

When I worked at a retail job, the joke was that a 4 year college degree got you 50 cents more an hour. There is no way you are paying for your education with a 50 cent boost in your hourly rate.Those statistics that talk about how college students make more money, don't take into consideration how much YOU'VE spent or gone into debt to get that tiny increase in your income. For most, the income is completely canceled out.

There are lots of articles and blogs that talk about how college is a waste of time, money and you are better off investing that money into a business of your own right out of high school. Hell I think even Steve Jobs said college was a waste?

I don't believe college debts should be wiped. You invested poorly and you have to take responsibility for that. You should have done the research before signing the dotted line on those loans. My family screamed at me about going to college and I did not send in a single application. I knew how much of a scam it was because I saw what my sister went through. She could not find work and this was back in the early 2000's. Now I watch my BIL do the same thing. We warned him about it all and that college was a waste of money and he said we were wrong and that he would find a job. Well now 2-3 years after graduation, he can't find work and his mom (who is the one who said he had to go to college) is now paying for his school loans...

[Becker]

Nobody was forced to go to college, you are correct.

And the campaign which misleads people into going to college with the expectation of a higher employment opportunity is pretty real, though it can't be blamed all on one group.

The only difference between student debt and other debts, is that student debt has no collateral to give back, and is not dischargeable with bankruptcy.

[Becker]

apparently they are the "99%" whatever the hell that means, and they are too BIG to fail for stupid decisions they made in life.

no no.

99% just refers to everybody in America other than the top 1% richest.

By no means a uniform group, not by income, class, race, interests, political affiliation, religion, education,...etc.

[RonPaulMall]

The correct libertarian answer is that the debts should not be "forgiven" but they should absolutely be dischargeable in bankruptcy. That's what these kids should be protesting about. They'll have to take the credit rating hit, but the banks need to be taking the default hit. That's how the system regulates itself. As things stand now, the only people taking the hit are the students, while the irresponsible bankers and politicians get to kick their reckoning down the road.

[Rael]

The program I'm taking at my community college has the highest graduation rate in the state, including beating 4 year universities.

It never made sense to me why more people don't go to community college for 2 years to save money. Here all public universities are required to let credits from a community college transfer.

[linusPAULing]

What is required is a thriving, non-manipulated industry of lenders that purchase the student loans for lower interest rates.

Don't student loans average something like 7.5-8%?

It should be legal for a second institution to purchase these loans and offer the borrower a market determined interest rate.. you might see 3-4% in this economy if the borrower has good credit.

[Becker]

The correct libertarian answer is that the debts should not be "forgiven" but they should absolutely be dischargeable in bankruptcy. That's what these kids should be protesting about. They'll have to take the credit rating hit, but the banks need to be taking the default hit. That's how the system regulates itself. As things stand now, the only people taking the hit are the students, while the irresponsible bankers and politicians get to kick their reckoning down the road.

I think more than half of Americans have no idea bankruptcy is an option for most of their debts, if they did, I think they'd abuse it more often. And would dramatically change our views on debt.

[cindy25]

the bankruptcy laws could be amended to allow student loan debt to be liquidated

just because its owed to the government should not make it special

[LibertyEagle]

I don't think that means Ron Paul wants to forgive all students for all of their debt for free, but I would be willing to bet he would go for some type of thing where if the federal govt. stopped backing these loans, the students who still had debt could have partial forgiveness or would be able to claim a special type of bankruptcy.

I seriously doubt it.

Paul is also big on personal responsibility for one's actions. No one forced them to take out the loans.

[LibertyEagle]

Because they are greedy. The same exact thing they are protesting. Ironic isn't it?

Exactly. They're not against the government redistributing wealth. They just want it redistributed to THEM, instead of Wall Street.

Pretty disgusting.

[BarryDonegan]

The government makes it impossible to go bankrupt and get out of student loan debt. That policy definitely needs to be changed. Debt law should be the same for federally underwritten loans as should it those in the private sector, where bankruptcy protection applies.

[dannno]

I seriously doubt it.

Paul is also big on personal responsibility for one's actions. No one forced them to take out the loans.

He said they were "abused", he has sympathy for their plight and I am positive he would be for at minimum allowing students to declare a special type of bankruptcy that would have to be created since it doesn't exist now.

It appears you haven't been reading the stories on here. When EVERYBODY around you tells you you HAVE to go to college or you will die poor and unhappy, what the hell kind of decision is that??

Not to mention, college tuition is severely inflated because of the system that the students have nothing to do with. One option could be able to pay back their loans at the uninflated price or have a special type of bankruptcy. You have to liquidate the bad debt some how.

[XNavyNuke]

I like and respect community colleges having attended them myself. But I was not aware of community colleges offering Bachelors, Masters or PHDs. Can you name a few that do?

Community Colleges Challenge Hierarchy With 4-Year Degrees (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/education/03community.html)

XNN

[specsaregood]

Community Colleges Challenge Hierarchy With 4-Year Degrees (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/education/03community.html)

XNN

That is great.

[moostraks]

Nobody was forced to go to college, you are correct.

And the campaign which misleads people into going to college with the expectation of a higher employment opportunity is pretty real, though it can't be blamed all on one group.

The only difference between student debt and other debts, is that student debt has no collateral to give back, and is not dischargeable with bankruptcy.

the bolded part is what makes discharging the debt completely inappropriate...if they want the rules to change then some form of collateral should have to be put up to discourage people from intentionally playing the system. From what I gather from the little I have seen/heard from this crowd education is a right and they deserve a free education...:confused:

[dannno]

the bolded part is what makes discharging the debt completely inappropriate...if they want the rules to change then some form of collateral should have to be put up to discourage people from intentionally playing the system.


That's why you have to get the federal govt. out of the business of student loans first, then as a result of that you can offer partial forgiveness or a special type of bankruptcy. After that, student loans would be either very small or non-existent. This would cause tuition prices to plummet so students could afford to go to school while working, maybe with a very small amount of assistance from home and/or a reasonable student loan which banks actually think will be paid back, not that they can just pawn off on the govt. later for a profit.

[specsaregood]

the bolded part is what makes discharging the debt completely inappropriate...if they want the rules to change then some form of collateral should have to be put up to discourage people from intentionally playing the system. From what I gather from the little I have seen/heard from this crowd education is a right and they deserve a free education...:confused:

Except that is the part that makes so many of them upset. Why are large private institutions run by wealthy people getting bailed out to the sum of trillions, yet they can't even discharge their own crushing student debt? Their position makes sense. It isn't equitable. I disagree with the bailouts; but if wall street is gonna get bailed out, then so should these kids. Hell, bailouts for everyone!

[moostraks]

Except that is the part that makes so many of them upset. Why are large private institutions run by wealthy people getting bailed out to the sum of trillions, yet they can't even discharge their own crushing student debt? Their position makes sense. It isn't equitable. I disagree with the bailouts; but if wall street is gonna get bailed out, then so should these kids. Hell, bailouts for everyone!

they missed the memo...they are irrelevant to tptb

[moostraks]

That's why you have to get the federal govt. out of the business of student loans first, then as a result of that you can offer partial forgiveness or a special type of bankruptcy. After that, student loans would be either very small or non-existent. This would cause tuition prices to plummet so students could afford to go to school while working, maybe with a very small amount of assistance from home and/or a reasonable student loan which banks actually think will be paid back, not that they can just pawn off on the govt. later for a profit.

and yet what I see happening is the professors and school heirarchy absorbing any tuition changes that might be possible-call me cynical but there always seems someone nowadays ready to muck up any potential; for positive change

eta-not that my cynicism should ever prevent anyone from trying!!!

[Fox McCloud]

If you voluntarily took on the debt....hey...your problem now.

[Endgame]

I played the college game doing everything right. Started at community college, aced my first year and rode on full scholarships until I got my bachelor's. Commuted from my parents house for all but a year to go to a 4th tier state school packed full of dumbfuck in one of the most notoriously shitty cities in America because they gave me a free ride and were in commuting distance. Never bought fancy clothes, didn't even own a laptop till my senior year. Graduated with about 10k of debt, 5k of which I took on in my senior year in anticipation of grad school, and 20k cash in my pocket most of which came from summer jobs.

Sacrificed everything for my studies, ended two relationships because they didn't understand that academics were important to me, and graduated summa cum laude with a hard science degree that was nonetheless worthless without going further with it. Had references from people with big fancy titles left and right, could have gotten myself into any DO school or a lower end MD school anywhere based on my test scores.

Having no desire to get into the lifelong hell that is being a doctor, I settled on a clinical masters program that would in theory lead to a six figure job in three years. The academics were easy after what I'd been though. The clinical work took some adjusting to but I was getting into the swing of it well enough. Grades were decent. By the begging of the third semester I realized that everyone doing the job is dead inside, crazy or high on benzos and antidepressants and can barely sleep at night just to deal with the mountain of shit (institutional, interpersonal, regulatory, professional, and literal) that they exist in every day (and many nights). Then everything went to shit in about the span of a week when the program director decided they didn't really like me after all when they said I was on track a week before.

60k in debt same as all the schmucks I knew that partied and fucked for three years before dropping out, and no job prospects after sending out something like 200 resumes. I could go into some research grad program and live off the stipend, but I'd rather not be a slave for four years plus five post-doc to some bitter nerd-slave pretending to cure cancer with their dozens of esoteric molecular biology projects that about ten people in their field can understand or even care about or studying slime molds and mating behavior of blue-footed piss ants in Michigan wetlands just to get enough grant money to eat (i.e. the majority of scientists out there). I've met Harvard PhD who went through all that and end up working in something that has nothing to do with their field, if they're working at all. It's only a very very small fraction (I'm talking hundreds of applicants for every position) of them that manage to get tenure track at a podunk university somewhere. Once you've had a glimpse inside that world you understand what produced psychos like Amy Bishop.

The higher education system is a bullshit bubble top to bottom, and the government is responsible for it by inflating tuitions with usurious bankruptcy-proof loans. Older folks I've talked to remember paying for college by working menial jobs in the summers. Now you're lucky if you can even get a menial job after a hundred applications and a summer's worth of waiting tables sure as fuck wont pay for a semester of college these days.

This world of forms and titles and bureaucrats and menial jobs requiring five years of experience to run a meat grinder in a sausage factory that the boomers and gen X have created has destroyed my entire generation. We're pissed and I find myself having a hard time giving a damn what happens to this country. It all got too fat and stupid to exist and isn't going to end well. Total economic collapse and chaos, civil war, massive terrorist attack wiping out a city or two, communist revolution... whatever. My sympathies are with the protesters regardless of their political persuasion. I can't be made to care about America's plight. I just hope hyperinflation wipes out that student debt and I'm smart enough to buy a plane ticket to greener pastures before it happens.

[aravoth]

I've been trying to ignore these protests (mainly because they're disingenuous), but whenever I hear about them one of the first things mentioned is forgiving student debt.

I'm curious how others feel about this.

My personal opinion is that I don't feel bad for you at all if you have massive amounts of student debt. No one forced you to go to a university, or forced you to get a useless degree for which there's no jobs. I had to get an AA degree from my community college so that I could transfer to a university (for exactly the reason that I wouldn't have a massive amount of debt). Why do people seem to insist that they need to go to a $60k+ university to get a degree that can be gotten for $5k in a community college? If you can't afford university without getting a massive loan, don't go to one!

They think they deserve the life of a wealthy person at the expense of you and me, basically.

[tfurrh]

Has anyone tried to go to the gov't site and access their student loan account? Its shut down. I wonder if its related to OWS?

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I predicted this would come here when I saw the European students protesting this very same issue months ago.

We have to tell these students that the free market is the solution and that government interference caused the high tuition costs in the first place.

Instead many are being convinced that socialism is a quick fix to their woes. Socialists are winning this arguement people!

[AuH20]

I predicted this would come here when I saw the European student's protesting this very same issue months ago.

We have to tell these students that the free market is the solution and that government interference caused the high tuition costs in the first place.

Instead many are being convinced that socialism is a quick fix to their woes. Socialists are winning this arguement people!

Socialism is built upon the idea of envy. Of course, it's a winning argument.

[RonPaulMall]

the bolded part is what makes discharging the debt completely inappropriate...if they want the rules to change then some form of collateral should have to be put up to discourage people from intentionally playing the system. From what I gather from the little I have seen/heard from this crowd education is a right and they deserve a free education...:confused:

If you make a loan with no collateral, you better be damn diligent in vetting the person you are giving the loan to, not handing them out like candy. These loans are even more irresponsible than the subprime situation, and the government and banks involved absolutely deserve to lose their shirts on them. Indeed, they need to lose their shirts on these loans because that's the only way they will ever stop making them. The system needs to be cleansed. Students need to suffer credit hits. Lenders need to suffer the loses associated with default. Then moving forward money for student loans will be much tighter and only then will tuition prices start going down to something that approaches a rational price structure.

[dannno]

If you make a loan with no collateral, you better be damn diligent in vetting the person you are giving the loan to, not handing them out like candy. These loans are even more irresponsible than the subprime situation, and the government and banks involved absolutely deserve to lose their shirts on them. Indeed, they need to lose their shirts on these loans because that's the only way they will ever stop making them. The system needs to be cleansed. Students need to suffer credit hits. Lenders need to suffer the loses associated with default. Then moving forward money for student loans will be much tighter and only then will tuition prices start going down to something that approaches a rational price structure.

Exactly.

The banks were the ones with money to lose, but they can't lose because govt. guarantees the loans.. ultimately it is the person who makes the loan's fault when a lot of bad loans are made.

[EvilEngineer]

As someone who graduated college in the last few years... these people just need to grow the hell up. Between my wife and myself, we had $170k in student loans and other debts from college. It has ALL been paid off in 2 1/2 years by working our asses off. We've both been working 60-80+ hours between multiple jobs a piece.

This country is just too damn full of lazy parasites that are afraid of working or doing something outside their comfort zone.

[Humanae Libertas]

They took the easy way out, now they want a bailout. Typical.

[TNforPaul45]

I saw the Adam Kokesh video todaywhere one of the protest leaders called for the Fed to print "tons more money." i suppose thats how they would pay for the loans.

These protestores are controlled, and the ones who are following have no specific grievances and are marching on emotions alone and nothing else. The Kokesh video protestor had a wild, insane, arrogant look in his eyes, either he was desperatley trying to deflect valid questions, or was just bat shit crazy. Or both.