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View Full Version : The hardest person trying to convert.....my dad. Need some help




Spanky
10-05-2011, 06:00 PM
If this isn't the right section let me know.

I tried talking to my dad about RP last election when well we all know he was not getting ANY attention....mind you my dad is a hard core republican.

He's the type that it's no ones business who he voted for although after some research I found he voted for Obama (HA!)

Anyways, I tried talking to him about it the other day, and he said (get ready to cringe) "Why vote for someone and put all your time in to someone that doesn't stand a chance?" Which hurt, cause he watches A LOT of main stream media. He even went on to say that he liked Rand and when and if he ever ran in 2016 or 2020, that he would vote for him (WTF?)

I need some way to appeal to him :/

mczerone
10-05-2011, 06:08 PM
If this isn't the right section let me know.

I tried talking to my dad about RP last election when well we all know he was not getting ANY attention....mind you my dad is a hard core republican.

He's the type that it's no ones business who he voted for although after some research I found he voted for Obama (HA!)

Anyways, I tried talking to him about it the other day, and he said (get ready to cringe) "Why vote for someone and put all your time in to someone that doesn't stand a chance?" Which hurt, cause he watches A LOT of main stream media. He even went on to say that he liked Rand and when and if he ever ran in 2016 or 2020, that he would vote for him (WTF?)

I need some way to appeal to him :/

Ask him why Paul can't win.

Ask him why he would support anyone else just to support a "winner".

Ask him how many other people are closet Paul supporters, but keep it to themselves "because he can't win".

Ask him to ask his friends how many would vote for Paul if they knew that others were supporting him too.

Finally, ask him how he would ever expect Paul to win if he didn't support him, loudly and proudly.

And if he gets combative, throw his own reasoning back at him: "Why would you vote for someone and put all your time in to someone that already looks like a winner if he's not the one closest to your ideology?"

specsaregood
10-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Ask him why Paul can't win.
Ask him why he would support anyone else just to support a "winner".
Ask him how many other people are closet Paul supporters, but keep it to themselves "because he can't win".
Ask him to ask his friends how many would vote for Paul if they knew that others were supporting him too.
Finally, ask him how he would ever expect Paul to win if he didn't support him, loudly and proudly.
And if he gets combative, throw his own reasoning back at him: "Why would you vote for someone and put all your time in to someone that already looks like a winner if he's not the one closest to your ideology?"

Skip all that ^.
Tell him if he ever wants a chance to go fishing with his future grandkids, he best slap a Ron Paul bumper sticker on his vehicle and tell all his friends to vote for Ron Paul.

Ronulus
10-05-2011, 06:12 PM
Ask him how voting for Obama worked out. He got to vote for the winner at least :).

Spanky
10-05-2011, 06:20 PM
Skip all that ^.
Tell him if he ever wants a chance to go fishing with his future grandkids, he best slap a Ron Paul bumper sticker on his vehicle and tell all his friends to vote for Ron Paul.

I really wanna do something like that. But I also want some points and facts of what Ron Paul supports that would get his attention.

I tried the troops thing, and he said "Yeah Obama said the same thing, how'd that work out?"

eleganz
10-05-2011, 06:29 PM
Ask your dad, "aside from the media tell you who can win and who to vote for, why don't you tell me what things Ron Paul could do to win your vote".

You could also lead by example by saying, "well I'm voting Ron Paul because I vote on principle, not popularity".


Why is your dad even comparing Ron Paul's foreign policy to Obama's? that just gives me the feeling that he doesn't even care what you say, he'll make up any excuse to not have to vote for him.

Challenge his manlihood, tell him to do exactly what the media tells him to do, while real men are about principle, takes care of their family, not send their futures to the crapper.

Invi
10-05-2011, 06:39 PM
Challenge his manlihood, tell him to do exactly what the media tells him to do, while real men are about principle, takes care of their family, not send their futures to the crapper.

Somehow, that sounds like it could be efective with a lot of guys.
But maybe that's just because I know I live with a man who wants to take care of his family and would do anything he could to do so.
Those kinds of men do not like to feel unappreciated or like they're failing in some way.
If all they do is listen to the media, they're failing pretty hard.

Napolitanic Wars
10-05-2011, 06:42 PM
My dad said something similar last election when I asked him to consider voting in the primaries. He said "Nope. I'm gonna let others vote then I'll pick one in the general election and take all the credit." Well, he has been taking all the blame since then. ;)

Spanky
10-05-2011, 06:42 PM
He works a lot, just to give his family everything. He's just stubborn, he's an old school republican. I just need to bring up issues RP stands for that would peak his interest compared to others.

SchleckBros
10-05-2011, 06:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ohKz9OeiI0g

My dad said that Ron Paul was crazy and I found it pointless debating with him. However, I sent this video to my dad and he emailed me back saying that he was now open to voting for Ron Paul. You should definitely show your dad this.

Spanky
10-05-2011, 06:50 PM
It's funny you say that, I put the video on his computer screen to watch, and he wouldn't.

He also randomly (Random cause we're in Indiana, and we don't vote for awhile, or probably won't be a big state) received a bumper sticker, and won't put it on

Verrater
10-05-2011, 06:53 PM
Challenge his manlihood, tell him to do exactly what the media tells him to do, while real men are about principle, takes care of their family, not send their futures to the crapper.

This works from personal experience.

Tod
10-05-2011, 06:53 PM
skip all that ^.
Tell him if he ever wants a chance to go fishing with his future grandkids, he best slap a ron paul bumper sticker on his vehicle and tell all his friends to vote for ron paul.


lol!

eleganz
10-05-2011, 06:58 PM
Write a letter to your dad explaining Ron Paul's positions and how they directly affect and benefits each member of your family in the long term.

If he doesn't change his mind after that, just forget it, he's a lost cause.

If I were you, I'd just berate him for being influenced by the media and not thinking for himself, thats not manly at all.

Spanky
10-05-2011, 06:59 PM
I don't even understand really, he'll vote for Rand, but not Ron?!

heavenlyboy34
10-05-2011, 07:00 PM
FWIW, I would play up RP's more "conservative" sounding positions and his relationship with Reagan. Maybe even print out that autographed picture of RP and Reagan.

Birdlady
10-05-2011, 07:08 PM
Family is the hardest to sway because they don't respect you or your opinions. They are the parent, so how dare you challenge them or think you know more than them.

I found this comment really odd.

I tried the troops thing, and he said "Yeah Obama said the same thing, how'd that work out?"

So he is now blaming Ron Paul for Obama being a liar about removing troops. What? Sounds like someone who can't admit he picked someone who let him down.

Most of the times, parents do not want to be shown or taught anything. He probably won't listen to you or read anything you try to show him.

Spanky
10-05-2011, 07:09 PM
I think once he sees me doing this BTO flier pass out he'll have to look. But I will also sit him down and bring up more points.

:D

HeyArchie
10-05-2011, 07:14 PM
I don't even understand really, he'll vote for Rand, but not Ron?!
Only liberals have tried to discredit Rand. Both sides try to discredit Ron. It's just a case of media mind control.

Butchie
10-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Have you given him the "For Liberty" video? My dad was a hard sell till he watched that. Also my brother loves the line of "I'd be wasting my vote" but I just said OK, when was the last time the election came down to one persons vote? - So what has anyone got to lose by voting for Ron Paul or voting for "their guy" who will win or lose by thousands of votes anyway.

Rocket80
10-05-2011, 07:32 PM
Any time someone asks me why I'd waste my time and vote on someone who can't win, I respond by asking them why they waste their time and vote on an unprincipled lying hypocrite who they barely agree with anyway. Then I conclude by saying the only wasted vote is an unprincipled, compromised one.

Brett85
10-05-2011, 07:55 PM
My dad would never vote for Ron in a hundred years. I'm not sure whether he would even vote for him against Obama, and he's a hardcore Republican.

iamse7en
10-05-2011, 07:58 PM
My dad is a hardcore Republican too, who's spent decades watching the nonsense on the mainstream media, especially the neo-fascist FOX News for the past decade or so. There's no hope for him. I gave up.

libertybrewcity
10-05-2011, 08:19 PM
Bring home some pot and smoke with him. That's when you make the most progress.

just kidding...i have a tough dad too...but even after being a cop/detect for 29 years, he started being more pro-legalization/regulation after many a dinner arguments.

he still believes in gun control, but i have my mom on my side so he will shift soon HA!

/progress

McDermit
10-05-2011, 09:38 PM
Been a long battle with my dad too. He does like Ron Paul, but is another "he can't win" drone. Ugh. He has a lot of clout in local politics, and getting him to publicly support RP would go a long way locally. If RP takes a couple early states, I'm pretty sure he'll step up. But until then...

At least my last name helped me with the county GOP, lol... so I can thank him for that! The county GOP gladly puts out any RP literature/signs/bumber stickers I give them for their fair booths, and they welcome RP supporters to their meetings and dinners, which is more than we can say of any neighboring counties.

bolidew
10-05-2011, 09:58 PM
I don't even understand really, he'll vote for Rand, but not Ron?! He is for the message but want a better messenger maybe?

Captain Shays
10-06-2011, 06:41 AM
You know what Dad? The founding fathers didn't stand a chance of beating the Brits who were not only their own government, but the most powerful military in the world. In fact even if they thought they could win, they didn't even know what sort of government they would have in the end. There had been no history of American bravery or a list of important battles won. Not only that but it was only about 1/3 of the Americans at the time who fought, won or supported the Revolution. The other 2/3 were either apathetic, or they were loyal to the throne or they were too scared to support the Revolution because they didn't think we had a chance to win.

All the Revolutionaries knew was give me liberty or give me death. So Dad where do you fall? With the 1/3 and Ron Paul or the 2/3 and the status quo?

kazmlsj
10-06-2011, 07:50 AM
If he is a hard-core Republican (kinda wondering about that if he voted for Obailout - I think a great delusion came over people in the last election) then you study what a Republican is and why Ron Paul is the very definition of Republicanism.

http://www.ushistory.org/gop/origins.htm

Arm yourself with facts - can't argue with the facts.

Nothing that Ron Paul espouses is off his cuff - he is well read and researches his positions very well. The information is out there - become educated.

Article V
10-06-2011, 09:24 AM
If this isn't the right section let me know.

I tried talking to my dad about RP last election when well we all know he was not getting ANY attention....mind you my dad is a hard core republican.

He's the type that it's no ones business who he voted for although after some research I found he voted for Obama (HA!)

Anyways, I tried talking to him about it the other day, and he said (get ready to cringe) "Why vote for someone and put all your time in to someone that doesn't stand a chance?" Which hurt, cause he watches A LOT of main stream media. He even went on to say that he liked Rand and when and if he ever ran in 2016 or 2020, that he would vote for him (WTF?)

I need some way to appeal to him :/First thing, acknowledge that your father is correct. Duverger's Law outlines the exact principle your Dad is referencing and shows the validity of his thought. Voters don't want to waste their vote on candidates they perceive can't win, so they settle for their second and third choice rather than lose a chance to make their voice heard. I think if you start by admitting to your Dad the very real truth that he is right and sensible, then he'll be more amiable to hearing the rest of your message, which is...

Second, acknowledge that this year's election is different. Democrats are disgruntled with Obama, Tea Partiers are disgruntled with the Republican establishment. Everyone is looking for an alternative who can actually change the status quo. Republicans don't trust Romney, so they flocked to Perry. As they learned they couldn't trust Perry, they flocked to Cain. They will flock away from Cain to someone else in the near future while Romney retains only his small group that never rises above 25%. Thus 75% of the GOP electorate is seeking someone other than Romney. Since the dislike of Romney is based on a distrust of Romney, the consistent principles of Ron Paul will make him increasingly attractive to Romney-alternative voters. Integrity and trustworthiness is what these voters want most from the GOP nominee, and Ron Paul has that in spades.

Third, ask your Dad what it would take for him to be convinced that Ron Paul has a chance. Would it be high fundraising numbers? Would it be a strong and diverse grassroots? Would it be support from the troops, the CIA, and the hunter of Bin Laden on his foreign policy? You Dad may provide you with the very tools to persuade him, so use your time with him to listen more than preach.

Fourth, admit to your Dad that his primary vote must be cast for someone who can beat Obama, otherwise it's a wasted vote even if his candidate wins the GOP nomination. No point in nominating someone who can't win, right? Then get him to admit that most GOP voters will support whomever the GOP nominates, purely because they most want to beat Obama. Thus, the GOP voting block is largely set against Obama and for the GOP nominee, much like the Democratic base is largely against the Republican nominee no matter who it is. As a result, the next election will be determined by Independent voters and swing voters in each political party. Then show him that the GOP candidate who gets the most support from independent and swing Democrats is Ron Paul; therefore, Ron Paul is more likely than any other GOP nominee to win the independent and swing vote that will determine the outcome of the next general election.

Fifth, explain to your Dad the "Paul or nothing" movement. He'll likely admit that Ron Paul has a strong unwavering base of supporters. These supporters in the Ron Paul r3VOLution want no part of the establishment GOP. While we hate Obama, we also hated Bush and McCain. We're a group who is tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. It makes us feel icky every time we vote, and we don't want to sully our principles any more by voting for a candidate we don't fully support. Moreover, unlike other elections, we believe the dissatisfaction in America is so high that the public is ready to accept the dramatic change we crave that only a candidate like Ron Paul can offer--because all the other GOP candidates are varying shades of the same-old-same-old establishment agenda. As such, the unwavering 13% supporters of Ron Paul have vowed to vote Ron Paul both in the primary and in the general--even if we have to write-him in; because for us, it's now or never to make real change in America. We'd rather have 4 more years of Obama than vote for a Romney or Romney-lite. So if it's a guarantee that Romney needs to hold on to the GOP base in order to beat Obama, and it's a guarantee that 13% of the GOP base won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, then it's a guarantee that any GOP nominee who isn't Ron Paul can't win the general election. This is something the media has yet to understand, because they haven't bothered to ask the "Paul or nothing" question. As a result, voting for anyone other than Ron Paul in the primary is a vote for a losing candidate in the general. The only vote that isn't wasted in the primary is a vote for Ron Paul.

(I have a lot more points, but I'm getting tired and think this should be enough to get you started. If you're respectful to your Dad and acknowledge the sensibility of his voting style, you'll make some progress. You'll then make more progress if he admits that, unlike past elections, many voters will opt to go rogue than vote as sensibly as he. These rogue voters will vote their principles even if it means the entire ship sinks. Therefore, the only sensible choice is to help the principled rogues steer the ship... because if the sensible voters don't join us, then we all lose. As Ben Franklin said in the original revolution, "Join or Die." The Ron Paul r3VOLution continues in that tradition of our Founders.)

Xenophage
10-06-2011, 10:55 AM
"Why vote for someone and put all your time in to someone that doesn't stand a chance?"

Because it's the right thing to do.

Spanky
10-06-2011, 12:51 PM
It's a lost cause. Sigh.

I was like fine, so who are you supporting? Cain? "no I don't know much about him" perry "same thing" Romney?! "no he's unelectable as well"

WTF I literally about raged on him but I walked away and just kept my cool. Uskfjsnskdbdnnshd

dannno
10-06-2011, 01:21 PM
It's a lost cause. Sigh.

I was like fine, so who are you supporting? Cain? "no I don't know much about him" perry "same thing" Romney?! "no he's unelectable as well"

WTF I literally about raged on him but I walked away and just kept my cool. Uskfjsnskdbdnnshd

There are plenty of polls that show Ron Paul with a statistical lead over Obama in the general election.. not to mention MOST people are against the wars, so it would be easy to elect somebody with that platform who is also a Republican fiscally.

Do you need us to link you some polls that show Ron Paul beating Obama in the general?

Spanky
10-06-2011, 01:27 PM
There are plenty of polls that show Ron Paul with a statistical lead over Obama in the general election.. not to mention MOST people are against the wars, so it would be easy to elect somebody with that platform who is also a Republican fiscally.

Do you need us to link you some polls that show Ron Paul beating Obama in the general?

His exact words were "no one in this upcoming election would I vote for"

I was like "not even Obama?"

"no not even Obama"

"so you're just not gonna vote?"

"probably not"

Rageeeeeeeeee

dannno
10-06-2011, 01:31 PM
His exact words were "no one in this upcoming election would I vote for"

I was like "not even Obama?"

"no not even Obama"

"so you're just not gonna vote?"

"probably not"

Rageeeeeeeeee


What are his stances on the war, bank bailouts, federal regulations, civil liberties, taxes, etc?

Travlyr
10-06-2011, 01:32 PM
Give him the gift of "Liberty Defined."

AuH20
10-06-2011, 01:34 PM
He works a lot, just to give his family everything. He's just stubborn, he's an old school republican. I just need to bring up issues RP stands for that would peak his interest compared to others.

How can he be an old-school republican and vote for Obama? And I'm certainly not advocating McCain in retrospect? But Obama?

dannno
10-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Does he like Guns n' Roses?


Civil War

"What we've got here is failure to
communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
Well, he gets it!
N' I don't like it any more than you men." *

Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The way they've always done before

Look at the hate we're breeding
Look at the fear we're feeding
Look at the lives we're leading
The way we've always done before

My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "Peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land

And
I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war

Look at the shoes your filling
Look at the blood we're spilling
Look at the world we're killing
The way we've always done before
Look in the doubt we've wallowed
Look at the leaders we've followed
Look at the lies we've swallowed
And I don't want to hear no more

My hands are tied
For all I've seen has changed my mind
But still the wars go on as the years go by
With no love of God or human rights
'Cause all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

"WE PRACTICE SELECTIVE ANNIHILATION OF MAYORS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
FOR EXAMPLE TO CREATE A VACUUM
THEN WE FILL THAT VACUUM
AS POPULAR WAR ADVANCES
PEACE IS CLOSER" **

I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
And I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
I don't need one more war

I don't need one more war
Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9VhD4SccSE

AuH20
10-06-2011, 01:36 PM
My father thinks Ron's time has passed, but he's always raving about Rand ("That boy should be president. He has a firm grasp of the facts" is what he said), which tells you something. People want something new and Ron's age and long tenure hurts him unfortunately.

Article V
10-06-2011, 02:35 PM
My father thinks Ron's time has passed, but he's always raving about Rand ("That boy should be president. He has a firm grasp of the facts" is what he said), which tells you something. People want something new and Ron's age and long tenure hurts him unfortunately.Ron's age is why he's so freaking wise. It's an asset, not a liability. And if he supports Rand, then the best way to get Rand noticed is by nominating Ron. Ron might pick him as the VP or at the very least the spotlight will shine brightly on Rand.

mainstream economist
10-06-2011, 02:58 PM
I am sorry to insult your father, but he seems like a typical shallow person who thinks that he is a "hard core conservative" without even knowing what that is.

I would say that you should keep your peace with him and reinvest the time you would have spent convincing him on the campaign's "Phone from Home" program or some other more productive activity. When (not if!!!) Dr. Paul gets the nomination, I bet that he would easily vote for the newly popular candidate.

I don't know how much money you have, but is there any chance that you could max out donations under his name? Even if he isn't willing to vote for Dr. Paul, maybe he would be willing to let you donate more money to Dr. Paul through him.

Article V
10-06-2011, 03:04 PM
I don't know how much money you have, but is there any chance that you could max out donations under his name? Even if he isn't willing to vote for Dr. Paul, maybe he would be willing to let you donate more money to Dr. Paul through him.This is illegal. We should not be doing this nor should we be encouraging this.

Athan
10-06-2011, 03:12 PM
In my opinion, spending family time with him is far more important than what you are doing.

Don't waste your time with politics on him; but at the same time make sure he know his uninformed views hold no weight or respect with you either if he brings it up. If he is going to be closed minded and not seeking truth, why is his political opinions going to hold any water to you and why are you going to waste your precious time on his political views? He has been brainwashed by the lies from the media. It likely will take a lot more of a desperate situation to wake him out of it.

Try to participate in OWS meetings to make some more useful political alliances with them and our movement. They are people who have generally hit the point of being upset to a point to DO something about it. They HAVE hit their personal catalyst event. They have similar targets and grievences as us, but have a completely backward way of addressing them which is why they have been quickly coveted by democrats, socialists, and union elites trying to co-opt them.

Philosophy_of_Politics
10-06-2011, 03:55 PM
I have a claim, regarding our current society/generation and politics. Over the last 100 years, our society has progressed while not caring for the very system, that is intended to maintain the ideals we all share. That system, is our politics, and politics is what decides the societal construct of any nation. Without politics, and taking it seriously, there is no happiness with the system--the nation. How are people today reacting to all the stress due to economic instability, and the increasing cost of living? Are you stressed? Do you fear, for your children's future? Do you sometimes question, what would happen if the great depression were to be intensified, and seen again in a new form? Are these questions that ponder your mind? Where do you think conspiracy theories stem from? Do you think they're merely just crazy theories, or do you consider that sometimes a conspiracy theory can be true? If you've ever wondered, even for a brief moment, the stability of our future as a nation. Then you should care about politics, as politics is the pre-requisite, to how you're impacted as a part of society.Maybe it was planned, to discourage us of politics? Maybe, just maybe--not taking it seriously is why we're here today.

Many men and women, disregard politics as important. They're far to worried about their own personal time, entertainment, and "chillin" with friends. They're far to worried, about what outfit Lady Gaga or Blink 182 wore to the Music Video Awards. Who has time for politics? An even better question--is merely watching politics enough? I would say, no--why do you think the mainstream media withholds crucial information, to begin with? Many must ask, if they trust their politicians. Most would say, no--why should I? Due to disappointment, or lies correct? Does that mean, that we should stop taking the responsibility as a citizen seriously? If your child said he loves you, and it turns out he doesn't for various reasons. Would you stop taking your responsibility as a parent seriously? Isn't one necessary aspect of parenting, to listen to your child?

Government, is necessary, within any structured society. This is our society--our nation, do we merely stop listening?
Should we stop researching? Should we stop using our own moral attitudes, reason, and logic as well?




That is what i would tell your father. Modernized, Short, Condensed, and it's Food for Thought. You cannot convince a man to do something, unless he first acknowledges if he's comfortable in doing so. Merely presenting that food for thought in a way that does indeed seem enticing, can have two results.

1) It will provoke a man, and engage him in using his inner reasoning and logic.
2) He will fail to use his inner reasoning and logic, and continue down his path of conformity.


The questions, and concepts in what you say. Are what provide food for thought, and the structure of the arguments themselves. If he doesn't use his inner reasoning and logic--he will make a pre-determined decision (as your father already has, he is discouraged), as that's what sheep do. They're herded, by the dog, that already knows what they'll do. Predictable. Encouraging him, to not do as you ask, but merely encouraging him to think about the ideals you represent. The ideals of Ron Paul, the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers.

mainstream economist
10-06-2011, 04:04 PM
This is illegal. We should not be doing this nor should we be encouraging this.

Ah, sorry. I did not realize that it was illegal. Thanks for pointing that out. I agree with you that we should not encourage illegal activities.