Evidence that the state is too big?

[Griffith]

I'm in a discussion with someone who says that our government, or state, is not big compared to other nations or compared to other times in history. So far my evidence that government is too big was a list of federal agencies from Wiki which was very, very long. He says that evidence sucks, his evidence is based on our tax burden. Anyone have good evidence that our government is big or too big?

[Anti Federalist]

Revisiting the Explosive Growth of Federal Crimes

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/06/revisiting-the-explosive-growth-of-federal-crimes

US prison population:

http://www.greenleft.org.au/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-image/693px-us_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg_.png

Government as percent of GDP:

http://www.americanthinker.com/Obama%20Supply%20Sider%20Figure%202.jpg

[Gumba of Liberty]

I'm in a discussion with someone who says that our government, or state, is not big compared to other nations or compared to other times in history. So far my evidence that government is too big was a list of federal agencies from Wiki which was very, very long. He says that evidence sucks, his evidence is based on our tax burden. Anyone have good evidence that our government is big or too big?

You cannot just look at the tax burden to determine the size of the Federal Government. Pull up the National Debt Clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/ and explain that the 14.8 trillion dollar debt has already increased the size of the State without increasing taxation and the $131,840 each tax payer owes with be payed back either through direct taxation (illegal before the 16th amendment) or inflation (illegal under the current Constitution). Not to mention the "Off Budget" spending that is unknown and massive. Bring up the fact that the U.S. military constitutes 47% of World Military Spending http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm. Lastly, ask him or her to find out the amount of laws that are currently on the books in the United States. When he or she cannot figure it out explain that the sheer numbers of laws proves your point.

[phill4paul]

You cannot just look at the tax burden to determine the size of the Federal Government. Pull up the National Debt Clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/ and explain that the 14.8 trillion dollar debt has already increased the size of the State without increasing taxation and the $131,840 each tax payer owes with be payed back either through direct taxation (illegal before the 16th amendment) and inflation (illegal under the current Constitution). Also bring up the fact that the U.S. military constitutes 47% of World Military Spending http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm. Lastly, ask him or her to find out the amount of laws that are currently on the books in the United States. When he or she cannot figure it out explain that the sheer numbers of laws proves your point.

Yes to all this. Also point out the size of the prison industrial complex.

EDIT: NVM. AF beat me to it. LOL.

[Anti Federalist]

When he or she cannot figure it out explain that the sheer numbers of laws proves your point.

Which explains why I wasn't able to find a graph of "number of federal laws 1900-2000".

Which also demonstrates the idiocy of those who whine, "well, if you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worrying about?"

If they can't even be counted, fuck anybody who says you can comply with them all.

The average person commits three felonies a day. (http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/)

[Simple]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/murphy/murphy152.html

Consumer price index
http://www.lewrockwell.com/murphy/cpi-chart2.png
Gold
http://www.lewrockwell.com/murphy/gold-chart.png
Money supply
http://www.lewrockwell.com/murphy/ambns-chart.png

[fisharmor]

Does the state exist? Check.

[Griffith]

Good info guys. Anything else?

[HOLLYWOOD]

Good info guys. Anything else?USE the government's own histogram against them...

Spending and History found here: http://www.fms.treas.gov/index.html

I extrapolated this from the US Treasury's own numbers... the US Government increased the DEBT by ~$47 Billion on the first reporting day of FY2012. There's a wealth of information, it's just knowing what and where to look for it. but the debt to run the government continues to grow on borrowed money.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/USTREASURY_FY2012_Oct3.png

[BattleFlag1776]

Good info guys. Anything else?

Since the creation of OSHA, nearly all agencies now have language tied to laws that state something along the lines of:
"The Secretary shall..."
"The Secretary may..."
"If the Secretary determines..." etc., etc.

Which means that the Secretaries of those agencies can do damn near whatever they want and have Congressional approval to do so (Think of the current EPA)! It also means their actions are not accountable to the ballot box. To me, a govt that is unaccountable by design is the very definition of big govt.

[Paul Revered]

http://www.patrol-log.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Global-Military-Budget-Country-Distribution-2009.png

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/cf_images/images-magazine/2011/09/17/WO/20110917_WOC674.gif

[Kylie]

What a depressing thread.

We are so totally fucked. We are not going to fix this system. Just look at those charts. It is damaged beyond repair.


Thank God we have someone running for President who will at least protect our liberties in the coming days. None of the others will let you stay free in the midst of the chaos that will ensue when this shit hits the fan.

[Theocrat]

I'm in a discussion with someone who says that our government, or state, is not big compared to other nations or compared to other times in history. So far my evidence that government is too big was a list of federal agencies from Wiki which was very, very long. He says that evidence sucks, his evidence is based on our tax burden. Anyone have good evidence that our government is big or too big?

Encourage him to read the U.S. Constitution, and then compare that document with the list of federal agencies you showed him on Wikipedia.