Clearly Ron Paul's Support Must Be a Mile Deep

[acptulsa]

We see polls which show this candidate's support and that candidate's support under these circumstances and those circumstances, and we learn things. We learn that Chris Christie could steal a lot of Romney's lukewarm support, and Sarah Palin could steal a lot of Perry's lukewarm support. But all of these hypotheticals also show that no matter who (short of Jesus Himself) gets in, Ron Paul's numbers never swing more than about one and a half percentage points. And this isn't surprising. Given the media blackout and the bizarre collection of adjectives applied to him (where else have you heard the word 'quixotic' used in the last half century?), you have to believe deeply in the man's sound principles to support him even a little bit.

So, now that we've converted the ten percent or so of conservatives capable of reaching this level of conviction on their own, how do we make this deep support more than an 'inch wide' in a world full of shallowness and through a population too immersed in more immediate problems to take the time and commit the effort to deepen their own understanding? Well, people will do this if they feel they must. And we understand why they must. But many of them think they have a conviction just as deep.

The false left/right paradigm is something we can see through, and it's obvious enough to us that we don't understand why most people don't see through it's falseness. But this is what passes for deep conviction these days, and people want to believe their convictions deep. This is the souce of much of the resistance we encounter. So, the question becomes, can we explode this false left/right paradigm, thus leaving people in need of convictions to hold deeply? And if so, how?

It should be possible. I have been advocating for some time that governmental programs work better on a state or county level than on a federal level, which is a way for people who believe in that stuff to support Ron Paul without betraying their convictions one bit--even though Ron Paul doesn't represent those convictions. And this is not our least successful method of outreach to date. But how to expand upon it, how do we eliminate the continued clinging to Federal dependance, and most of all, how do we reach those who think they're conservatives?

This al-Awlaki killing may be a key, if we play it right. It has certainly left many people in the position of having to support the wrong side of their left/right paradigm, as I have pointed out here:

http://laughterandliberty.com/

Can we parlay this into a deeper understanding? Can we use this to help people see just how shallow the 'left/right' garbage they take for deep conviction truly is? Can we make people need and want to develop the depth of conviction necessary to support Ron Paul?

And if so, how?

[orenbus]

Reposting below something I added to the "Houston we have a problem..." thread that touches on your question of how to grow past our base.

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Was just reading the 13th and 14th (latest) Iowa Independent Power Rankings for 2012 Republican Presidential race. The Iowa Independent relies on academics, consultants, activists and political reporters to put together their Iowa Power Rankings.

The latest one still has Ron Paul in 2nd place, for comparison sake I went to the one they did before this latest to see what notes they had about Ron Paul and it was interesting that he was also 2nd in that one. What was more interesting was that they were essential giving us a message. That message was saying; look, we know Ron Paul has a strong base that is unwavering but if you guys seriously want to win you have to grow past that an sell Ron Paul to the majority of Republicans and you guys just are not doing it!

In the early edition I found this quote:


There is no doubt that Paul’s long-term fiscal message resonates, but there is also no doubt that there has not been enough grassroots effort by Paul supporters and staff to capitalize on that message or to take advantage of the opening such on-going battles between other candidates presents.

“Instead of running ads attacking Perry, he should be running ads promoting himself,” a panelist said. “Or, better yet, spend that money on grassroots outreach. Bring some high-profile surrogates into the state that will not only re-energize his already loyal following, but that might have the potential of bringing a few new bodies into the fold.”

Now looking at that quote I don't see their suggestions being much different than what is being said in other threads. We need to do more grassroots outreach we need more people in Iowa and especially in New Hampshire to do this. We can't do much in terms of bringing in high-profile surrogates that's going to be something that the official campaign will have to handle. But we can help the campaign by bringing in more volunteers into the key states that need more grassroots outreach.

(14th) Iowa 2012 GOP Presidential Power Rankings: Remain seated until the ride comes to a full stop
http://iowaindependent.com/61633/iowa-2012-gop-presidential-power-rankings-remain-seated-until-the-ride-comes-to-a-full-stop

(13th) Iowa 2012 GOP Presidential Power Rankings: It’s time to get your ground game on
http://iowaindependent.com/61332/iowa-2012-gop-presidential-power-rankings-its-time-to-get-your-ground-game-on

[69360]

We all have to do it on a personal level. This can't be won in the media or even on the internet for that matter. 1 in 10 Republican voters has unwavering support for RP, it's never going away, no matter what. If each of us can convince just 2 or 3 friends or family to register R and vote for RP, this is in the bag and we are unstoppable. The only question in my mind is can we do it in time.

[acptulsa]

Yes, I agree that face-to-face outreach may be the best way to achieve this. But it just isn't easy to pin people down long enough to get the point across in a busy world, especially when so many people don't feel the lack. We know they lack understanding, but they don't.

Doug Wead's recent blog explaining how their corporatist regulations are killing the American Dream is good stuff--very good stuff--but we have a generation gap in place between old folks who understand that desire to be entrepreneurs but figure the only thing holding younger people back from achieving this is their own lack of gumption, and younger people who grew up in corporatism and don't understand that America was once a place where enterprise could flourish. And the old ones and young ones don't talk enough to teach each other that things have changed, and not for the better.

If we could get the old folks to infect the young folks with those old-time ideals, we could break the corporatist hold on the society. But how? And how do we do it wholesale? Because they're only just getting interested in this election, and we're running out of time to do this one person at a time.

[orenbus]

In terms of educating the public, it's never too late so there is no time limit. If you are talking about the election then even if we convince 2 or 3 friends or family it won't be enough because we are spread out across the country. Even if we get a bump in national polls this wouldn't have as much of an impact as if instead volunteers started heading into early states to help convince 2 or 3 in those states which would have a major impact in for example IA and NH which would snowball into legitimacy for the candidate in the rest of the race and build up to super Tuesday.

[acptulsa]

Even if we get a bump in national polls this wouldn't have as much of an impact as if instead volunteers started heading into early states to help convince 2 or 3 in those states which would have a major impact in for example IA and NH which would snowball into legitimacy for the candidate in the rest of the race and build up to super Tuesday.

Maybe. But I don't know if that's a given. Even this 'he won an early state so he's viable' horse race logic is an inch deep, and the media could find a way to erode it away.

If we can explode the left/right paradigm somehow, then we leave a deep schism and we can plant our seeds deep. Which is why I referred to my 'Billybob and Me' post at L&L. Can this make people see just how poorly the left/right stuff they're spoon-fed serves their need to feel like they have deep convictions? If not, what will?

[69360]

I say friends and family because these are the people we see everyday. We know what issues they care about and they trust our opinions. These will be the easiest for us to win over.

But really if we all just make a commitment to get 2 or 3 more unwavering supporters we will win.

I think a big problem is that the older generation gets news from msm. They vote heavily in primarys and we need to win them over. What I see as encouraging is that most of the local media reports from early states are very positive about RP. Older people still read local newspapers. RP is actually very likeable in person at his appearances and that works for us. I hope he doesn't get too worn out doing them because they seem to be working.

[orenbus]

Maybe. But I don't know if that's a given. Even this 'he won an early state so he's viable' horse race logic is an inch deep, and the media could find a way to erode it away.

If we can explode the left/right paradigm somehow, then we leave a deep schism and we can plant our seeds deep. Which is why I referred to my 'Billybob and Me' post at L&L. Can this make people see just how poorly the left/right stuff they're spoon-fed serves their need to feel like they have deep convictions? If not, what will?

What you are suggesting is extremely difficult to do in on a large scale in a short period of time because of the very reasons you mention regarding how the media may try to find a way to erode any momentum Ron Paul may get out of early wins in IA and NH. We have already seen this in practice with the spin off of our movement in 2008 towards a Tea Party that has been co-opted and now controlled through messages in the media.

The same thing is happening now with this Occupy Wall Street movement, although started from initial concepts on the internet grassroots activists every day forces outside the grassroots are trying to co-opt their movement to promote a message that the establishment can better control. Alas any major effort as seen through the examples of the Tea Party and the OccupyWallStreet movements are countered quickly and put down to restrict any free thinking in terms of bridging the left-right paradigms which we even see examples of on this very forum in order to stay with public perceptions that those that align themselves with whichever group must be the enemy. Why? Because that is what the media, public figures and our peers are telling us to think. And why would some on this forum want to follow along with maintaining the paradigm? Because of fear that if we buck the system our candidate will be further ignored or his influence diminished. Fear is what drives the people into these left-right groups that regard each other as enemies.

The only chance I see of accomplishing anything in the short term is to win the election through using our energies in places where you do not need a lot of people to make significant political change or at the very least change perceptions which is why I allude to focusing our energies on the early states. You are probably right we will be under attack if things go well after the early states, but this will have to be one battle at a time and we would just have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

[acptulsa]

We can win a lot more than two or three each in the time we have left if we find a quicker way to get to them. People understand the concept that if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything--deeply and instinctively. The false left/right paradigm is something they can stand for that makes them feel as though they're on solid ground. But it's an illusion. It isn't solid ground to stand on, it's a thin sheet of ice, designed to help them fall for anything.

Both sides of this coin have been proving this for some time now. People who call themselves conservative fall for big government because of it, and people who call themselves liberal fall for tyranny and war because of it. To us this is obvious.

Now, what better thing can we do to help ourselves reach our goal than to find a way to make this simple truth so simple and so obvious that anyone--no matter how dependent on deluding themselves--can see it and in fact can't deny it?

If we can eliminate what they take for depth and prove it shallow, then there's that gaping hole wide and deep enough for us to plant a whole tree in its place. But what wind can topple the left/right paradigm?

[69360]

I don't believe that there is time before this election for a pardigram shift. It's a great long term goal for C4L, but the campaign only has a few months to work with.

I really think the way to win this is with one of the biggest grassroots campaigns in history, I thnk if we really want this, the only path to success is going to to be on a personal level

[acptulsa]

I'm interested in this impeachment talk because impeachment has always been a seriously partisan activity in this nation. Now, impeaching Obama for assassinating al-Awlaki should, in theory, get talk radio bloodlust warmongers calling for Obama to go because he violated the Constitution when he kicked the ass of a terrorist, and peacenik, human rights defending HuffPo mavens trying to defend Obama for doing it. Sooner or later, this would have to lead to a lot of 'WTF am I doing?' moments all across this land.

Can we make impeachment the Topic of the Day? If we do, will this be the result?

[69360]

I worry about impeachment talk. I believe the BO administration is going to point to the post 9/11 AUMF to legally justify the killing. RP voted for it. This could backfire badly.

[orenbus]

As far as the impeachment argument I completely agree it should be used more by Ron Paul and us in the grassroots at least when target and talking to Republicans. Mainly because it is the same type of tactic that has been used by the two parties for a number of years and seems to be effective in rallying up support for the blood thirsty and those that are extremely dedicated to getting the current president out of office one way or another.

However the reaction from the Democrat side won't be to think about it too hard perhaps some may but those that are deeply entrenched in the brainwashed mindset of the parties will be difficult to persuade in terms of using this as an education tool. Then again we really don't have to it's the independents that would make the difference in general. We'll probably lose some possible support from liberal democrats however like I said that will only see this as an attack on the President and nothing more.

But yea I've been saying in other threads the campaign really should be talking up impeachment a lot more this week, from my understanding the way it came about was from a college student asking a question about holding the President or those that were involved in the decision accountable. This wasn't initially part of the strategy of the campaign but I think it should be adopted for obvious reasons that we are starting to see from the Mike Savage show and drudge report link for the past 24+ hours. This is news and for Republican any attack on Obama in the long run is a good thing so we will probably persuade more to support Ron Paul by pushing it.

[orenbus]

In essence this is what we are up against and the polls reinforce this:

The 15% tipping point concept follows the Law of Diffusion of Innovations;

2 1/2% = innovators
13 1/2 % = early adopters
34% = early majority
34% = late majority
16% = laggards

Shown here at 11:00 minute mark, explains further the gap between 10-15%:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

[acptulsa]

However the reaction from the Democrat side won't be to think about it too hard perhaps some may but those that are deeply entrenched in the brainwashed mindset of the parties will be difficult to persuade in terms of using this as an education tool. Then again we really don't have to it's the independents that would make the difference in general. We'll probably lose some possible support from liberal democrats however like I said that will only see this as an attack on the President and nothing more.

The reason I see it as a useful tool is that no matter which side of the left/right paradigm someone is on, they will have to twist the snot out of their stated ideals to remain there. It will demonstrate to them just how unfirm their 'firm ground to stand on' really is, and will prove to them their 'deep convictions' are as shallow as a puddle after a rain shower.

Hopefully, true independents will just laugh at the whole thing, and hopefully they will see who speaks to them from defendable convictions.

In any case, I don't see this as a job for Ron Paul. He's better off if we can do this without him getting his shoes dirty with it. What I'm asking is, can we turn this into a 'gotcha moment' for the false left/right paradigm that is doing us so much harm?

[acptulsa]

If you're going to change someone's mind, first you have to get under, or around, or somehow past their defenses. If we play the way I'm suggesting we play and do it right, we will have the opportunity to look at people and say, if this party of yours is serving you so well, why are you now on the wrong side of your own 'line in the sand'? See what I mean?

That could be very, very helpful to us. It would take an awfully stubborn person to be unmoved by food for thought like that.

You think supporting your Party means you're standing for something solid, but doing it just turned you into the thing you profess to hate. Now, please listen while I tty to show you what about America is really worth standing in support of...

[acptulsa]

Can it be done? Can a herd of cats set a trap this subtle? Can a herd of cats all wait for the right moment before shouting, 'Gotcha!'?

[acptulsa]

If nothing else, I think this thing (if properly handled) is one hell of a good topic for a face-to-face with any Democrat, Republican or independent because it shows just how false the left/right paradigm upon which the powers that be are so dependent really has become.

Ron Paul doesn't need to touch this impeachment talk with a ten foot pole. But we do. We can make hay with it while the sun shines.

[acptulsa]

The 'Right' would love to impeach Obama on Constitutional grounds, and here is their golden, gift-wrapped opportunity to do it, but their talk radio antiheroes are telling them that this is the best thing Obama ever did. The 'Left' would feel inclined to defend their former 'Messiah' but to a truly principled 'liberal' this action is indefensible.

Archimedes said, 'give me a lever and I will move the world.' Is this not our lever?

[Steve-in-NY]

Easiest way to gain support:
Take the Ron Paul challenge.

See this thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?311146-Take-the-Ron-Paul-Challenge

A two week initiative with a couple hundred supporters could make a HUGE difference, as orenbus stated, citing the Law of Diffusion of Innovations.
It could be what we need to get over the hump so to speak, and with Cain disappearing and Bachman and Perry sliding this could be the best window of opportunity.
We can do this, so lets do it. Time is no longer on our side.

[mconder]

how do we make this deep support more than an 'inch wide' in a world full of shallowness and through a population too immersed in more immediate problems to take the time and commit the effort to deepen their own understanding?

Announce support for war with Iran?

[acptulsa]

Easiest way to gain support:
Take the Ron Paul challenge.

I don't know if 'easiest' is the right word, but I do agree that it's a good thing. We do need to spend a quantity of time with potential converts.

I'm just trying to find ways to ensure that the quantity of time we spend doing this is also quality time.

[The Free Hornet]

I don't believe that there is time before this election for a pardigram shift. It's a great long term goal for C4L, but the campaign only has a few months to work with.

I really think the way to win this is with one of the biggest grassroots campaigns in history, I thnk if we really want this, the only path to success is going to to be on a personal level

Markets tend to crash in October. The S&P has entered bear-market territory. The Euro is on the edge of collapse. At the very least, the question of the Euro is "when it will crash" not "if it will crash".

I will not hope for a market crash or currency crisis, but that could really happen in the next few months and I hope people have the wisdom to not support a globalist or a fed banker.

[mconder]

Yes, I agree that face-to-face outreach may be the best way to achieve this.

Does it seem to anyone else, that we had way more real life efforts to that end last time around with the Meetup groups? I think this has been a critical mistake this time around to rely on online and media efforts to move the message forward. I'm not feeling anywhere near the same passion and creativity as 2007. There was something new and amazing everyday back then. I check on the forums here now and it's just bla. I think we needed to do the meetup groups again. Yes, I know Facebook is free, but it doesn't have groups tied to zip codes and you can't even pull up the group calendar without knowing the exact path on Facebook. Facebook has not worked for us like Meetup groups did in 2007.

[acptulsa]

Announce support for war with Iran?

I do believe I'll pass on that. But I'd be amused to hear you say how you think it would help.


Markets tend to crash in October. The S&P has entered bear-market territory. The Euro is on the edge of collapse. At the very least, the question of the Euro is "when it will crash" not "if it will crash".

I will not hope for a market crash or currency crisis, but that could really happen in the next few months and I hope people have the wisdom to not support a globalist or a fed banker.

There's potential in that. 'You tried an establishment Republican and the market crashed. You tried a Democrat and the market crashed. Are we ready to try something different yet?!'

[Spanky]

Does it seem to anyone else, that we had way more real life efforts to that end last time around with the Meetup groups? I think this has been a critical mistake this time around to rely on online and media efforts to move the message forward. I'm not feeling anywhere near the same passion and creativity as 2007. There was something new and amazing everyday back then. I check on the forums here now and it's just bla. I think we needed to do the meetup groups again. Yes, I know Facebook is free, but it doesn't have groups tied to zip codes and you can't even pull up the group calendar without knowing the exact path on Facebook. Facebook has not worked for us like Meetup groups did in 2007.

I wasn't here in 2007, but I do agree we need to do something else. If we are still in it when Indiana is voting, I already have it set up for a big group to talk to almost every house in my city, been working on it for awhile.

These early states need to get out, spend some time and change votes!

[acptulsa]

Well, regardless of how we get our message out, we need to ensure that our message is stronger than the 'conventional wisdom', because otherwise we won't overcome it.

And that ain't easy.

[Spanky]

I think it's safe to say Paul's support is deeper than a mile, I'm thinking a couple hundred miles.

[TheTexan]

You're right that Awlaki is a large opportunity for us. It's pretty shitty that we may need to use one of the greatest grievances against our Constitution as a political play-thing, but some of the shallower "conservatives" may indeed be happy to give up a tiny bit of their neo-con warmongering for a second for the opportunity to impeach Obama.

They'd be impeaching Obama for all the wrong reasons... but alas. Beggars cannot be choosers.

[acptulsa]

They'd be impeaching Obama for all the wrong reasons... but alas. Beggars cannot be choosers.

Ah, but they'd be impeaching him for all the right reasons. And it might feel good to them. In any case, it would make for a change.

[MelissaCato]

We all have to do it on a personal level. This can't be won in the media or even on the internet for that matter. 1 in 10 Republican voters has unwavering support for RP, it's never going away, no matter what. If each of us can convince just 2 or 3 friends or family to register R and vote for RP, this is in the bag and we are unstoppable. The only question in my mind is can we do it in time. I think we managed to get a lot in 2007-2008 to register Republican for Ron Paul in the primaries. The problem I see this campaign, is the democrats who didn't switch last campaing, will not switch this campaign either. Although these same democrats do say if Ron Paul wins the primary, he has their vote for the general.I know I've managed to get people to switch by just showing them Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution. Especially the new comers who really can't speak or read english, but understand if you focus their attention on it. These people are easier to convert because they haven't been brainwashed in english, so when someone explains to them in english, it all makes sense to them and they get it. Alot of my converts are none english speaking .. and now know Article 4 Section 4 and Ron Paul.Why so many people think America is a democracy is beyond me, but once they know Article 4 Section 4 .. it's a slamdunc, another registered Republican.

[Peace&Freedom]

If one of the collapsing, or non-starting candidacies (Bachmann, Palin) folds and the candidate endorses Paul, that would be helpful. The grassroots should be talking more to likely voters and independents offline, and doing less commenting on poor internet or cable TV coverage of Paul. The campaign should be advertising Paul more widely given its deep funding.

It would REALLY help if Paul talked more about false flags as part of the mix of actions that sets up blowback, as in "our government keeps setting up inside jobs, blaming it on foreigners, and using that to invade/bomb/occupy them, which invites blowback." We MUST emphasize both we and the Muslim world are being LIED to or manipulated into conflicts abroad, as an emotional trigger to provide cover for interventionism. The blowback argument just by itself has simply not persuaded most people to become non-interventionists, as they are too emotionally attached to the "the other guys started it, the US is the victim, gotta keep pounding them" mindset to receive the logical argument for peace.

And the last issue is, Paul's style avoids pandering to a group or making big government promises to them ("I'll get you more subsidies, more bureaucratic regulations of some hot-button matter, more wars and military contracts, etc"). The gettable voting blocs don't see what goodies Paul is going to bring them, compared to the other Santa Claus politicians.

[acptulsa]

The blowback argument just by itself has simply not persuaded most people to become non-interventionists, as they are too emotionally attached to the "the other guys started it, the US is the victim, gotta keep pounding them" mindset to receive the logical argument for peace.

Well, I'm not sure that there's much short of an undeniable smoking false flag gun that can do it. But if there is, it's the idea of impeaching Obama.

Thus this thread.

Now, if we can be so slick as to sell them on the idea of impeaching him, even if it means telling them it's 'having their cake and eating it too', maybe just maybe we can bring the poor, beleaguered Constitution into the conversation. This would give us a sorely needed chance to sell it.

[Travlyr]

I'm sold on the "Just War Theory (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?319697-Reaching-out-to-other-Christians-with-Ron-Paul-s-quot-Just-War-Theory-quot-with-a-new-video!)." I don't know if that'll get any legs, but I like it anyway.

[idiom]

I think the issue of the year is about to clearly become the massive economic collapse. While the Fed is technically at the bottom of it, the massive gaping pus filled wound in the American economy that is causing the massive sepsis it the massive blatant government enabled fraud.

RP needs to call for the 10 biggest insolvent banks to be resolved, not just the FED. He needs to say 'I am "un-electable" because I would send thousands of bankers to prison. I would STOP the LOOTING. I would stop the inflation AND the direct transfers. I am not on the pay-roll.'

There is so much blatant looting in the economy now. Insider Trading is also an easy one that is massive at the moment and 100% un-prosecuted. Forget Social security, Pension funds, insurance funds, institutional endowments are being flat out looted.

The Zombie banks are draining the life out of the economy and Obama refuses to prosecute or enforce any laws.

Its sooo easy. Its very real. It makes the Fed real. He has to really heavily attack Tarp and all the bailouts along with QE. People don't get QE very easily.

It seperates him from the rest of the crowd. No one else is calling for prosecution just more stimulus.

[acptulsa]

RP needs to call for the 10 biggest insolvent banks to be resolved, not just the FED. He needs to say 'I am "un-electable" because I would send thousands of bankers to prison. I would STOP the LOOTING. I would stop the inflation AND the direct transfers. I am not on the pay-roll.'

I agree. Wholeheartedly. I suppose I ought to complain about a thread hijack, but no way. Ron Paul needs to stay focused on things like this. No way he needs to say one word more about impeachment than he already has. He needs to stay on this message as much as he can because this is what Americans need and want to hear.

But we, on the other hand, are dealing with voters who still put stock in this Democrat vs. Republican rivalry and they're working very, very hard to turn both sides of it against Ron Paul. They're telling one side he can be dismissed because he's on the other side, and telling the other side they shouldn't even consider him because he's too much like someone from the first side. So, how do we get around that?

Well, while they're pretending the D against R thing is important, the talk radio jocks are refusing to entertain the idea of impeaching Obama for this clear violation of the Constitution because he's just covering Dubya's ass. After all, Dubya, Laura and the First Little Wenches wined and dined this terrist right there in the White House in red carpet style. Considering the way they went after Clinton for lying about getting his cock sucked, it's pretty bizarre that they wouldn't call for Obama's neck for killing someone who could have been captured, tried and then killed. And the only explanation for this is that trials expose truth, funerals bury it. So, we have conservative radio hosts refusing to condemn a Democrat, the ostensible enemy, for burying the truth about someone Dubya wined and dined.

Now, when you tell Democrats that Obama was covering Dubya's ass, and tell Republicans that Rush Limbaugh is covering Obama's ass, where does that old Team Spirit go?

Yes, let Ron Paul concentrate on corporatism and the trashed economy. And let us concentrate on moving our neighbors past the false left/right paradigm. And if he and we do our jobs right, here in a few months we can meet in the middle and both talk about how these wars are trashing the economy for the benefit of Big Oil, the MIC and the Fed. Just in time for Iowa.

If the terrists are the enemy, why did Dubya wine and dine everyone from al-Awlaki to the Saudis to the Taliban? If either the Republicans or the Democrats are the enemy, why are they so busy covering each others' asses? If We, the People are not the enemy, why are we losing our jobs, our pensions and our lives?

This assassination could be an interesting topic of conversation, if we play it right. Ask Republicans why Obama won't get impeached for this, and let them know that al-Awlaki was yet another unsavory Dubya buddy. Ask Democrats why the ardent Constitutionalists on the other side aren't jumping at this chance to impeach Obama, and let them know he's coving Dubya's butt. There's food for national thought...

[idiom]

Wasn't meaning to hijack.

The people who want to think understand that the Fed is the root cause of the bailouts. Attacking the Fed gets 10%. Attacking the rampant fraud would get the next 40%.

The assassination could do it to, but it is a more treacherous argument to make, I think. I guess we are going to see where it goes any way as it is getting legs.

[acptulsa]

The people who want to think understand that the Fed is the root cause of the bailouts. Attacking the Fed gets 10%. Attacking the rampant fraud would get the next 40%.

The assassination could do it to, but it is a more treacherous argument to make, I think. I guess we are going to see where it goes any way as it is getting legs.

Well, yes, the economy is big, and threatening to grow in importance. No question. Still, it's hard to give economics the macho romance of war, isn't it? The assassination is the more treacherous argument to make, to be sure. But, as they say, the greater the risk, the greater the reward.

The real problem with the Fed from this point of view, though, is it's one of the few areas where the typical in-the-box R and D are not really on different pages. So, as a means to the end of helping people out of the false left/right paradigm, I don't see much value in it. Sure, once we help people see how the insiders, regardless of the capital letter they wear after their names, are all on the same team and it isn't our team, then the Fed is a ripe topic of conversation. But right now, I'm interested in helping them become aware of what the real teams are.

[Paul4Prez]

A mile deep, and a mile wide, too -- 100,000 donors and counting.

The media's mistaken notion that Ron Paul has "passionate but limited" support has been shattered by the Q3 fundraising numbers.

How can you not be considered top tier, when you have the most actual supporters?

[acptulsa]

A mile deep, and a mile wide, too --

Yes, but we can't let up. We've got to make it nationwide.

[traviskicks]

What was more interesting was that they were essential giving us a message. That message was saying; look, we know Ron Paul has a strong base that is unwavering but if you guys seriously want to win you have to grow past that an sell Ron Paul to the majority of Republicans and you guys just are not doing it!

Over at Freerepublic.com there is not a great amount of Paul support and lots of Paul bashing from so-called conservative republicans, their reasons all pretty much relate to foreign policy. Paul needs to refine his message better to win those folks over, phrasing it differently, if they can even be won over... He needs to speak in terms of 130 bases across the world and providing for the defense of Japan and Germany so they can spend money on social programs. He needs to talk about US flawed support of Mubarak and Saudi dictators and other middle east dictators. He needs to not quote terrorists, he needs to not talk about US 'war crimes' or starving Iraqis or whatnot. This is just IMHO.

[TheTexan]

A mile deep, and a mile wide, too -- 100,000 donors and counting.

The media's mistaken notion that Ron Paul has "passionate but limited" support has been shattered by the Q3 fundraising numbers.

How can you not be considered top tier, when you have the most actual supporters?

It would be neat to make a website called something like "dollarvotes.org", that details exactly how many people donate to each campaign, and what industries they work in.

It would just be fun to have real statistics that say "Mitt Romney: 15,000 donaters. 80% banking industry, 14% military-industrial-complex, 6% average person" and "Ron Paul: 100,000 donaters. 65% average person, 20% US military personnel, 14.9% other, 0.1% banking industry"