No Longer Supporting

[UtahApocalypse]

Due to the way my local meetup group has been turned into a dictatorship, and then they are slandering me for my complaint I am no longer supporting Ron Paul. As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

[hambone1982]

Wow, sorry to hear that. Is Ron Paul the cause of your anger or could it be come over-zealous supporters? I would urge you to ignore everyone else and focus on the Ron Paul message, then make up your mind on election day. Good luck. Thanks.

[james1906]

Due to the way my local meetup group has been turned into a dictatorship, and then they are slandering me for my complaint I am no longer supporting Ron Paul. As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

better your local meetup group is a dictatorship than your country is a dictatorship. just because your local group is full of assholes doesn't mean ron's message has changed. and the message is really what matters, right?

[UtahApocalypse]

Further details:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3197

[dagnytaggart]

Whoa, hang on, kid! Breathe!
It's the message, not the messengers.
How on earth can the actions of some of his supporters turn you off from Dr Paul himself?
Hang in there!

[kylejack]

Due to the way my local meetup group has been turned into a dictatorship, and then they are slandering me for my complaint I am no longer supporting Ron Paul. As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

Heh, you're silly. You're not voting for your own liberty because of a couple idiots in a local Meetup group, who do not work for Ron Paul. What was your complaint, anyway?

[disciple]

Due to the way my local meetup group has been turned into a dictatorship, and then they are slandering me for my complaint I am no longer supporting Ron Paul. As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

Sorry you feel this way, but what does that have to do with Ron Paul, the man?

[burnice]

Due to the way my local meetup group has been turned into a dictatorship, and then they are slandering me for my complaint I am no longer supporting Ron Paul. As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

It's obviously not fair to take your frustrations about your apparently crappy meetup group out on Ron Paul himself.

Can you be more specific about what went wrong? What were your complaints? How have you been slandered?

This is not about making friends (although that might be a nice side effect) - it's about freedom and the future of America. Seems like I find myself at odds with some of the supporters for one reason or another, but I don't intend to withdraw my support for RP just because we all don't see eye to eye about many things. That's what freedom is all about, no?

I do hope you'll reconsider. ;)

[Revolution9]

Due to the way my local meetup group has been turned into a dictatorship, and then they are slandering me for my complaint I am no longer supporting Ron Paul. As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

Heh."Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters". Amazing contradiction with your proposed actions. I suggest putting the toys back in the playpen, writing an eloquent well researched speech stating calmly and non-accusatorially your thoughts backed up by quotes from the founding fathers and Dr Paul himself and under Robert Rules ask for time to present it. Contrarily you could just outdo them and get another meetup group going based on freedom of action and viewpoint and support him from there fo groups are your thing you like to do.. Do not judge the Good Doctor by misguided supporters, or perhaps even cointelpro plants.

You are an individual as we all are. Who will you now support? The field other than Paul looks like the Borg concensus to me.

Best Regards
Randy

[Korey Kaczynski]

Grow the fuck up, you whiny baby. Just because some relatively minor disagreement between a non-official meetup group hurt your poor, tender ego, does not mean that all of the sudden you need to become anti-Ron Paul.

How old are you? Are you even 18? Seriously, this behavior is what I'd expect of a 14 year old boy.

I don't want to be a jerk, but let's face it; this is perhaps too ridiculously petty and puerile to respond to in any fashion approaching nicety.

[Spirit of '76]

As matter of fact I am so outraged at the actions they have taken I am nor AGAINST this campaign in any way possible. I will remove EVERY sign I see. I will bury EVERY digg article. I will be voting against him in EVERY poll. Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters. Good Luck to you all, You don't have a chance in hell.

Sounds to me like you never believed in Dr. Paul's message of freedom in the first place, then.

If you do believe in his message of limited government and liberty, then please don't let egotistical contests with other supporters cause you to try to wreck a good man's campaign.

Temper tantrums are not the answer to conflict resolution.

[kylejack]

"I will no longer be involved in the meetup."

Meetup is to organize people, so why should they leave someone in who says he will no longer be involved?

[Give me liberty]

Never give up, keep trying.


I wonder if one of those meetups of yours did they had a Bush supporter? or an Rudy nut?

[Gunslinger]

You were obviously never with us to begin with. If you supported Ron Paul for the right reasons, some third-party Meetup group wouldn't make you a bitter enemy of the campaign. Did starting your own Meetup group ever cross your mind? :confused:

[NewEnd]

Just stay away from the meet-up, and continue to support Ron Paul any way you want. Meet-up only has authority if you go. ;)

This is a geurilla campaign anyway.

Your ego is blocking your view of the end goal.

[Korey Kaczynski]

Here's my take on it:

The Salt Lake City meetup group wanted to create organization to better coordinate amongst its members and to reduce the chances of agent provocateurs (a very real phenomenon) causing damage to the Ron Paul grassroots campaign by utilizing the technique of black propaganda. The original poster in question was angered/upset at such organization, preferring that people campaign in a decentralized fashion, probably for ego reasons. Staying in the group was frowned upon by the SLC organizers, who removed him from the meetup group due to their desire to not artificially inflate their numbers.

After being removed, the OP took it personally and projected his anger upon the entire Ron Paul campaign, and threw a tantrum.

Now, how close am I to the truth?

[CAKochenash]

We are all gathering under Ron Paul. There are people within this movement that I dislike. But when it comes to promoting RP, I will be at their side.

[mdh]

Wow, UA... you seemed really cool when we chatted. What happened? It seems retarded to go all batshit just because you don't like the meetup leaders. Start a new, competing meetup, or use something else to organize if you actually care about the ideals behind this campaign. If you don't... well, I never got that impression from you, but if you really don't support Dr. Paul, then what's your point anyway?
This OP was weaksauce, dude.

On the other side of the coin, the organizer folks do sound like they're on a major power-trip, and that's a bad thing. I consider myself an informal organizer of stuff in my region - I know peoples' names, phone numbers, and I put time and money even into making fun things happen. I'd never be so presumptuous as to tell people what to do or not to directly. I mention events we can do to support Dr. Paul and the message, and I do things like buying beers and food to make them appealing. I spend time contacting city agencies to make sure we're not breaking any laws. I consider all of the local supporters here to be my friends. We have fun. We're not some hardcore organization. There're no receipt submissions or expense reports. That kind of crap is retarded. Personally, I don't agree with running a campaign that way. It's the opposite of "grass roots". It's not libertarian. And when they claim that their org structure and accountability to them is similar to the constitution in terms of authority... that's just offensive.

[The Dane]

As far as i understood UtahApocalypse, the problem is that the leaders of the meetup group wants to control too much for him.
This is a very common problem in voluntary work.

The solution is to go a bit on the sideline, and get together with someone likable with the same understanding. (no matter who is right or wrong).

I dont see how the leaders of the meetup group can hold UtahApocalypse from the street himself with a few freinds. That dosent add up.

[beermotor]

Grow the fuck up, you whiny baby. Just because some relatively minor disagreement between a non-official meetup group hurt your poor, tender ego, does not mean that all of the sudden you need to become anti-Ron Paul.

How old are you? Are you even 18? Seriously, this behavior is what I'd expect of a 14 year old boy.

I don't want to be a jerk, but let's face it; this is perhaps too ridiculously petty and puerile to respond to in any fashion approaching nicety.

Yeah, no offense, but what he said. It's just a dumb meetup. If you don't like the way it's run, start your own?

One stupid meetup is no way to dismiss support for the only guy worth a damn in the whole race. Your post is mighty confusing.

[Bob Cochran]

I dont see how the leaders of the meetup group can hold UtahApocalypse from the street himself with a few freinds. That dosent add up.
Well...that's Mormon country, and they are used to thinking they can control what people do and don't do.

And people let them.

[beermotor]

Here's my take on it:

The Salt Lake City meetup group wanted to create organization to better coordinate amongst its members and to reduce the chances of agent provocateurs (a very real phenomenon) causing damage to the Ron Paul grassroots campaign by utilizing the technique of black propaganda. The original poster in question was angered/upset at such organization, preferring that people campaign in a decentralized fashion, probably for ego reasons. Staying in the group was frowned upon by the SLC organizers, who removed him from the meetup group due to their desire to not artificially inflate their numbers.

After being removed, the OP took it personally and projected his anger upon the entire Ron Paul campaign, and threw a tantrum.

Now, how close am I to the truth?


If this is true, the SLC group sounds lame in the extreme. Come on people, quit taking yourselves so seriously. Meetup is a social thing, not the fucking Hitler Youth. If you need to take it to the next nerdy level, form a PAC or whatever. Jeez.

Of course, this in no way excuses Mr. Tantrum. Seriously man, get a grip.

[Korey Kaczynski]

As far as i understood UtahApocalypse, the problem is that the leaders of the meetup group wants to control too much for him.
This is a very common problem in voluntary work.

The solution is to go a bit on the sideline, and get together with someone likable with the same understanding. (no matter who is right or wrong).

I dont see how the leaders of the meetup group can hold UtahApocalypse from the street himself with a few freinds. That dosent add up.

Everyone wants to be "individuals" and do their own thing. Problem is, that leads to only a few people doing anything of value.

[kylejack]

Everyone wants to be "individuals" and do their own thing. Problem is, that leads to only a few people doing anything of value.

That statement is totally against what Ron Paul and most libertarians believe about society.

[Korey Kaczynski]

If this is true, the SLC group sounds lame in the extreme. Come on people, quit taking yourselves so seriously. Meetup is a social thing, not the fucking Hitler Youth. If you need to take it to the next nerdy level, form a PAC or whatever. Jeez.

Of course, this in no way excuses Mr. Tantrum. Seriously man, get a grip.

The SLC group sounds decent; organizing for a cause is far more convenient than having it be random people do whatever they want.

[Korey Kaczynski]

That statement is totally against what Ron Paul and most libertarians believe about society.

Which is why corporations have explicit hierarchies, as does government.

EDIT: When unifying for a cause, leaders have to emerge to provide direction and order. Otherwise, nothing gets done. That's how it is.

[ElGreco]

The topic creator fails on so many levels. I laugh.

[kylejack]

Which is why corporations have explicit hierarchies, as does government.

EDIT: When unifying for a cause, leaders have to emerge to provide direction and order. Otherwise, nothing gets done. That's how it is.


Ron Paul's life and voting record are impeccable. Lew said it on June 9: "Ron Paul will be running an impeccable campaign." What has the enemy got other than to subvert Ron Paul's campaign management infrastructure? If a group member can't handle receiving simple instructions from campaign headquarters, what are they going to do when it really gets tough? If they can't handle following a simple infrastructure to be accountable to, then they're saying they can't really handle following the US Constitution, which is about freedom. The US Constitution is not about being a law unto ourselves where we can trash the life, liberty, and property of others.
I'd be pretty pissed if they said that to me.

[AlexAmore]

I thank God for the heroes of our past who could stand up and not flinch in the face of adversity. Martin Luther King comes to mind. If Martin had the attitude of the OP, I would fear for our well-being of our black friends. If our forefathers had the attitude of the OP, we would be pledging allegiance to the king.

[mdh]

Which is why corporations have explicit hierarchies, as does government.

Except that corporations pay their employees to follow their bosses, and government forces you to follow it at the end of a rifle.
Volunteers are neither paid nor forced.

[Spirit of '76]

What I got out of the message from SLC meetup is that they are opposed to individual members taking it on themselves to place the group in a position where the group is incurring financial debt without the prior consent of the group or Dr. Paul's official campaign staff.

That doesn't sound so unreasonable to me. If someone objects to that, they should just avoid the group and do what they can to support Dr. Paul on their own.

[Korey Kaczynski]

I'd be pretty pissed if they said that to me.

And I bet the OP was pretty pissed when he read what I had to say. Your point?

[Korey Kaczynski]

Except that corporations pay their employees to follow their bosses, and government forces you to follow it at the end of a rifle.
Volunteers are neither paid nor forced.

And how does that change anything?

[mdh]

What I got out of the message from SLC meetup is that they are opposed to individual members taking it on themselves to place the group in a position where the group is incurring financial debt without the prior consent of the group or Dr. Paul's official campaign staff.

That doesn't sound so unreasonable to me. If someone objects to that, they should just avoid the group and do what they can to support Dr. Paul on their own.

Have they actually incorporated the group? If so, it must have a board of directors and an official org structure. If it has, then the board of directors is responsible for setting down who can incur debts. Generally the board itself must pre-approve any such expenditures. All the leaders have to do is control the board, which is easy to do. At that point, again, it's not a "grass roots" thing anyway. If that is not the case, then the group cannot incur debt, as it is not a legal entity.

[UtahApocalypse]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

[theblatanttruth]

So, what does some meetup group's standards, good or bad, have to do with an individual's support of Ron Paul? I'm lost here.

[theblatanttruth]

I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group

See, was that so hard? :p


Welcome back :D

[mdh]

And how does that change anything?

If you don't understand, I don't know how to explain it - it just comes from common sense and basic logic. I do what I'm told at work, because I want my paycheck. I like paying my bills with it, and buying nice things, and having fun. I follow government rules because if I don't, I will face censure in the form of fines, jail, or a loss of privileges (such as to drive, if I get too many DUI's). As a volunteer in a grass roots campaign, I am neither being rewarded with payments, nor forced through law to abide rulings by anyone else.

Arbitrary authority structures are an enemy.

[wwycher]

Screw those officious bastards. A resentment and a coffee pot is all it takes to start a new meetup group. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have had to deal with this to some degree in my meetup as well. Just do what you want to do and don't tell them. We must be patient with people that want what Dr. paul is talking about but have never actually lived by those principles.
It's going to take some time to change habits of corpratism and forcing your will on people. Hang in there dude, don't give up on freedom.

[Korey Kaczynski]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

It was fairly obvious, at least to me, that they meant taking orders from campaign as more of a, "do what the campaign would want us to do." The campaign doesn't give orders to anyone outside of the campaign, but they have made suggestions, such as asking people to stop emailing news outlets en masse.

[Korey Kaczynski]

If you don't understand, I don't know how to explain it - it just comes from common sense and basic logic. I do what I'm told at work, because I want my paycheck. I like paying my bills with it, and buying nice things, and having fun. I follow government rules because if I don't, I will face censure in the form of fines, jail, or a loss of privileges (such as to drive, if I get too many DUI's). As a volunteer in a grass roots campaign, I am neither being rewarded with payments, nor forced through law to abide rulings by anyone else.

Arbitrary authority structures are an enemy.

If you're a volunteer, membership is not compulsory. Which is obvious. Of course, he doesn't have to belong to the group, but let's face facts with facts: organization improves the ability of people working together to achieve their common goals.

[Quantumystic]

We are all gathering under Ron Paul. There are people within this movement that I dislike. But when it comes to promoting RP, I will be at their side.

Here, Here!

While I've been fortunate to have yet to run into anyone that's really annoyed me here, IF I did... it would have NOTHING to do w/ my support of Dr. Paul.

I'd simply have to knock them out (so I wouldn't have to listen to them) until the day to vote for RP. :D

[Bryan]

I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.
That is a fair position- only you can decide if any group is a good fit for you. It may work for others but that doesn't matter-- the great thing about freedom.

Regardless, sorry to hear about the problem.

[Erazmus]

I think it's easy to see that this group on the RonPaulForums are level headed and easy going people that stand for principle, integrity, and liberty. Clearly, if someone finds a Ron Paul supporter on the street that seems like an ass, all one has to do is come here to realize there are tons of us that aren't that way. :)

Welcome back.

[Bob Cochran]

Clearly, if someone finds a Ron Paul supporter on the street that seems like an ass, all one has to do is come here to realize there are tons of us that aren't that way. :)
I reserve my right to be an a$$ when it serves me.:D

Liberty, you know.

[Spirit of '76]

Have they actually incorporated the group? If so, it must have a board of directors and an official org structure. If it has, then the board of directors is responsible for setting down who can incur debts. Generally the board itself must pre-approve any such expenditures. All the leaders have to do is control the board, which is easy to do. At that point, again, it's not a "grass roots" thing anyway. If that is not the case, then the group cannot incur debt, as it is not a legal entity.

I really don't know if the group has been incorporated or not. I was just stating the impression I got from the message from the group posted in this thread:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3197

Even if the group is not legally liable for debts that individual members incur on behalf of the group, surely we must admit that refusing to pay debts taken on the name of the group is hardly the best way to build community support and good will for Dr. Paul's campaign.

I'm not in SLC, as you know :), so my input on this is just based on what I read here. And based on that, I don't think it's unreasonable to get the consent of the group before taking on debt in the group's name.

That said, I also don't think an authoritarian hierarchy is necessary for such a group to be productive. That may or may not be the case here; I don't know.

ps. You get my email with that URL?

[mdh]

Think capitalism. Don't like the other product on the market? Find a competitor, or become one! <3 Capitalism.

[mdh]

I really don't know if the group has been incorporated or not. I was just stating the impression I got from the message from the group posted in this thread:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3197

Even if the group is not legally liable for debts that individual members incur on behalf of the group, surely we must admit that refusing to pay debts taken on the name of the group is hardly the best way to build community support and good will for Dr. Paul's campaign.

I'm not in SLC, as you know :), so my input on this is just based on what I read here. And based on that, I don't think it's unreasonable to get the consent of the group before taking on debt in the group's name.

That said, I also don't think an authoritarian hierarchy is necessary for such a group to be productive. That may or may not be the case here; I don't know.

ps. You get my email with that URL?

Yepp, I did - I'm having other folks look at it before I come back to you with our ideas. The only thought that came to my mind was that maybe the blue on the right was too light? Dunno, I'm the least artistic among us. :p

[Spirit of '76]

Yepp, I did - I'm having other folks look at it before I come back to you with our ideas. The only thought that came to my mind was that maybe the blue on the right was too light? Dunno, I'm the least artistic among us. :p

More input is great.

Just remember that my skills are limited. :o If anyone has technical advice on how to accomplish something, I'm all ears.

[Quantumystic]

More input is great.

Just remember that my skills are limited. :o If anyone has technical advice on how to accomplish something, I'm all ears.

What's the techie issue?

[ronpaulitician]

My interpretation of meetup groups:

They are NOT officially affiliated with the Ron Paul campaign, and as such can ignore some of the campaign finance laws that are in place.

They are basically groups of individuals who want to pool their creative and financial resources in order to promote the cause of liberty.

All kinds of individuals will be part of these groups. Most will contribute to the cause, while some will hinder the cause. Likewise, most meetup groups will contribute to the cause, while some will hinder the cause.

At my own local meeting, some things were said that I took offense at. In hindsight, I should've spoken up, and addressed the issue to make sure that others didn't take enough offense at them to leave the cause behind.

I'm sure most of us are not experienced with these kind of things, and I'm sure issues will come up, but we must always remember that, although we all have different viewpoints on many of the issues and have different opinions as to how to promote our own views, we are all individuals willing to give up our time (and money) to help get Dr. Paul elected.

[Spirit of '76]

What's the techie issue?

Just some web design/css stuff. I'm still learning. There's no clearly defined issue yet. It just depends on what kind of feedback I get.

More info will be forthcoming. :)

[The Dane]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

That is good news :)

The SLC group might be more of a top-down thing. It can be quite efficient if people can still have a good time in a structure like that. Also when a group reaches a certain size, it needs more and more authorithy and top-down control, because everything else will be a huge mess. Im sure that you know some people in that group who needs to be told how to do the things in order to be efficient.

I dislike this kind of thing too, about the volunteer work that i sometimes do for a certain organisation, but i have to admit that the organisation is working in this way. It could be working better, i think, but thats it... Its not up to me to change that structure at this point.


I think the small self-organising groups are most efficient.
A structure of groups-within groups is the best. The campaign HQ is the top boss, and the meetup leaders are the second level. So if you cant deal with them, make a small new meetup group yourself. (As many other here recommended).

You guys are all in the same boat, and im cheering for you from the other side of the big ocean...

[beermotor]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.


Just start your own man.

Ultimately, who cares - it isn't some meetup group's version that is winning hearts and minds, it is The Message. Period.

But, you need to settle down and keep things in perspective. Even Nietzsche advocated being cheerful and carefree. Have you read the Tao, Lao Tzu? "Do that which consists in taking no action." And let the good stuff happen.

[BLS]

I didn't read all of this because it's entirely too long.

BUT...in the event that no one mentioned this to the original poster, I'd like to offer some advice.

Pull up your skirt and do WHATEVER it takes to help Dr. Paul get elected.

[DjLoTi]

Whenever a group of diverse Americans get together... watch out. lol

Think of 'The Real World'

That's why I have trouble finding really good friends... people are so diverse...

As for starting your own meetup group, that's not such a bad idea, especially if others like you were also turned off by the way the group was being handled.

Utah is kind of an important state, so, I'd hope that in some way, the good message gets out in a good way. :)

[slantedview]

Reading that other post, I can understand how you'd have a disagreement with your meetup group or maybe become upset with them (they supposedly booted you, of course).

I'd say just keep this in mind. The meetup groups are NOT official, and are not wholly representative of Dr. Paul. It sucks that you would consider not supporting Dr. Paul because you had a disagreement with others on the best way to support him. Do you see how ridiculous that is? It's not Dr. Paul's fault that your meetup group might be a dictatorship. Sometimes well intentioned people just get carried away...

If you don't like the meetup group, then screw 'em. Just continue supporting Dr. Paul in whatever way feels best for you.

[AgentSmith]

Its quite ironic how many little dictators have crawled out of the woodworks and taken over bits and pieces of this so called 'revolution'

[mdh]

Its quite ironic how many little dictators have crawled out of the woodworks and taken over bits and pieces of this so called 'revolution'

Yeah... always happens. Welcome to politics.

[Swmorgan77]

Come on man, I'm in that group. You know there are those of us doing our best and have nothing to to with things you are upset about, and who have in fact been targeted by the same individuals. If you want out I understand but please don't sabotage our efforts.

I am genuinely sorry to see you go.

[Swmorgan77]

If this is true, the SLC group sounds lame in the extreme. Come on people, quit taking yourselves so seriously. Meetup is a social thing, not the fucking Hitler Youth. If you need to take it to the next nerdy level, form a PAC or whatever. Jeez.

Of course, this in no way excuses Mr. Tantrum. Seriously man, get a grip.

The group is fine, it is a few key individuals who are unfortunately in a position to instigate infighting and have been very determined to do so.

We are a very effective group, largely due to the efforts of a core of about 7 people who had nothing to do with the things Apocalypse is upset about.

Apocalypse, you should know that the overwhelming response I am getting from talking to the group is that they are just as turned off by the stuff you are upset about as we are.

[tnvoter]

Grow the fuck up, you whiny baby. Just because some relatively minor disagreement between a non-official meetup group hurt your poor, tender ego, does not mean that all of the sudden you need to become anti-Ron Paul.

How old are you? Are you even 18? Seriously, this behavior is what I'd expect of a 14 year old boy.

I don't want to be a jerk, but let's face it; this is perhaps too ridiculously petty and puerile to respond to in any fashion approaching nicety.


Seriously. l8r.

[Hamburglar]

Meetup is a social thing, not the fucking Hitler Youth.

Ich bin anderer Meinung.


Grow the fuck up, you whiny baby. Just because some relatively minor disagreement between a non-official meetup group hurt your poor, tender ego, does not mean that all of the sudden you need to become anti-Ron Paul.

How old are you? Are you even 18? Seriously, this behavior is what I'd expect of a 14 year old boy.

I don't want to be a jerk, but let's face it; this is perhaps too ridiculously petty and puerile to respond to in any fashion approaching nicety.
Agreed.

[Razmear]

The campaign HQ is the top boss, and the meetup leaders are the second level.

From my understanding there is no direct connection between any meetup group and RP HQ, so the meetup leaders are not the 2nd level, and in some cases may be spreading false information and hurting the cause more than helping.

There is nothing to prevent a Mitt Romney supporter from starting up a Ron Paul meetup group and then acting like a Nazi at the meetings just to turn off potential supporters.

I joined the closest meetup here, which is about 40 miles away, but when one of the leaders forwarded all the members a copy of 'Roberts Rules of Order' I decided that it probably wasn't my type of grass roots group. I'm still a member and get the updates, but haven't bothered to make the 40 mile drive on a Tuesday night to go to a meeting.

An Erisian Parable: "We Shall Stand Apart!"

10,000 people doing their own thing can be more effective as the same number of people following orders from a central command. Do what you think is best for the campaign, and don't do what someone says just because they claim to be a 'leader'.

eb

[bigsauce]

It's morons like this guy who add to the "Dope Quotient" of this country. As Artie Lange says, "Wahhh Wahhh, go cry in the corner wahhh, wahhh".

What a self-serving LOSER

[qednick]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

You've always had good input here before and there's always two sides to any story. I agree that you should just screw that meetup group - perhaps form your own but you definitely shouldn't change your views on RP's policies just because someone else wound you up. Sometimes personalities just clash. Good luck anyways.

[Spirit of '76]

All this negativity and in-fighting is a real turn-off.

How 'bout we drop it and concentrate on helping Dr. Paul win this thing? :)

[Chris Sinnard]

There seems to be an easy solution here.

The OP is upset because it wanted the group to be less centralized and wants to support Paul in a more independent fashion, but the group wants to organize more.

Solution: Don't go to the meetup group and do what you want to support Paul on your own terms and conditions. If you are not a "black propagandist" then you will still be helping his cause working independently of the group. Helping Paul through the group and helping him by yourself is still helping him, I see no conflict there, besides maybe personality.

[TruthBeKnown]

I just found out about this forum a couple days ago.

I have read this entire thread and find some of the replies to be inappropriate. Please refer to the forum participation agreement which was agreed to when joining this forum: "By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws."

Rude comments, vulgarity, & other forms of negativity do not help anyone, particularly RP or the spirit of peace, love, & respect for others, which is where I believe RP is coming from, and may actually turn people away from becoming active in supporting RP.

I am glad to see UA has changed their position & will continue to support RP, as I truly believe he is the LAST HOPE FOR AMERICA.

Let us keep our focus on the goal & not get distracted by our differences. If a "voluntary" group does not suit you, just walk away & resolve to do better.

I think we can all agree that our main focus right now is getting RP into the primaries and contacting our local voters registrar & push them to ensure that our votes are counted correctly! Once we have him in, we need to focus on the big win, and again, ensuring our votes are counted, & most importantly: protecting him from any assassination attempts, as I do believe those with power & money will not stop at anything to keep him out of office - remember John & Bobby Kennedy.

I hope you will join me in praying for RPs success & protection every day.

[Minuteman2008]

I'm actually turned off by a lot of RP supporters, but that won't affect my support of Ron Paul himself. Just stay away from those you disagree with and continue to support Paul if you believe in his message. I actually have nothing in common with the anti-war left crowd
(those folks who think open borders radicals like Hagel or Richardson should be RP's running mate, etc) that makes up probably half of RP's base, but that doesn't affect my views of RP.

[AZ Libertarian]

The group is fine, it is a few key individuals who are unfortunately in a position to instigate infighting and have been very determined to do so.

We are a very effective group, largely due to the efforts of a core of about 7 people who had nothing to do with the things Apocalypse is upset about.

Apocalypse, you should know that the overwhelming response I am getting from talking to the group is that they are just as turned off by the stuff you are upset about as we are.

Aren't we discussing a state where Mitt Romney polled at a whopping 85%!?! That, to me, translates into WORKING IN ENEMY TERRITORY! In reading all the associated posts, I can see the True Ron Paul supporters being coopted and obfuscated by a core of Romney supporters posing as RP'ers, dragging down the efforts of everyone they can.

My bets , when it's all said and done with, are that the ONLY pro-Ron Paul signs that will end up being seen in the state of Utah are those the TRUE RP supporters there paid for out of their OWN pockets, and the ones the Arizona Western Libertarian Alliance took up there (at their OWN expense) that the posers can't find and take down!!!

_______________________________________

ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM - Don't let the bastards wear you down!

[SeekLiberty]

Heh."Amazing how a few people can just try and take over a grassroots group of local supporters". Amazing contradiction with your proposed actions. I suggest putting the toys back in the playpen, writing an eloquent well researched speech stating calmly and non-accusatorially your thoughts backed up by quotes from the founding fathers and Dr Paul himself and under Robert Rules ask for time to present it. Contrarily you could just outdo them and get another meetup group going based on freedom of action and viewpoint and support him from there fo groups are your thing you like to do.. Do not judge the Good Doctor by misguided supporters, or perhaps even cointelpro plants.

You are an individual as we all are. Who will you now support? The field other than Paul looks like the Borg concensus to me.

Best Regards
Randy

"Borg concensus." LOVE it! :cool: Randy offers some reasoned advice.

And yes, don't be surprised about potential plants whom specialize in misguiding supporters of Ron, and try to turn them against the truly, freedom-loving patriots.

It's even happened on this forum. (They TRIED anyway and almost ran off one true patriot ... but in the end it didn't work.)

If I judged Ron Paul by what some of the alleged supporters have said, then I'd be frustrated too. What I do is always remind myself that they are NOT Ron Paul, and it's highly unlikely they really understand his message ... which is the message of freedom. People who understand SHOW it in their actions.

Read Ron Paul's book "Freedom Under Seige". There's a link to download it free in my signature. THAT is what Ron Paul is all about.

[Bloody Holly]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.


I'm sorry that those people suck but hope you stick around. You can always be independant :)

[sifupaul]

Amen to the last post! WTF?

You were never in the movement from the start, it seems.

"Let the dead bury the dead" as they say.

[DjLoTi]

Can we stop being so negative and critical, and stop bringing it up? We all have our moments... give the guy a break... jeez... I feel bad for him for all the bashing he's receiving on this thread. Seriously.

[Broadlighter]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

I went to my Meetup's first meeting earlier this week. The moderator said that she had contacted RP's campaign office about what kinds of parameters we should observe. All they told her was for members of the group only to put out messages that come from the official campaign. They didn't say you couldn't create your own stuff, but the content should reflect the views of the campaign. Stuff like the '9/11 Truth' would not be looked upon very favorably by RP's campaign staff. Other than that, they didn't say anything about how the group should be run. We're just a group of people who want to see Ron Paul get elected.

Utah, you were right to check with the campaign yourself and find out what these scoundrels were up to. Trolls come in many forms. Not all of them are online trolls.

[vertesc]

Utah, I hope that when the haze of anger clears, you will find yourself still able to support this campaign as an individual. Your input on this forum has been very useful, and you have earned respect from me at least.

Remember the principle of a trader: if you and the meetup group can't find a way to be mutually beneficial, no one is forcing you to deal with them. Organize on forums, blogs and emails. Put up your own signs. There's no reason to deal with people who aren't agreeable to you.

I hope the campaign hasn't lost you Utah. Best of luck.

[torchbearer]

Just to let people know... utah is back with the movement and everything is gravy. so- its time for this thread to die.

[UCFGavin]

Just to let people know... utah is back with the movement and everything is gravy. so- its time for this thread to die.

good to hear. although i do hate people that think they are greater than the cause.

[Brandybuck]

How old are you? Are you even 18? Seriously, this behavior is what I'd expect of a 14 year old boy.
I have no idea how old he is, but I am seeing an awful lot of childish behavior around here and elsewhere. Of course, I've seen simialr childish behavior from septagenarians at Libertarian Party meetings. Everyone wants to be the leader, no one the follower.

We're so used to be iconoclasts, eccentrics and rebels, that we're unable to organize. Some of you may say that's a good thing, but when it comes to winning elections, it is not. The Libertarian Party has prided itself on NOT winning elections for over thirty years. They're more interested in making a point than in doing what is necessary to win. That same thinking is apparent here.

At some point we need to get organized. If we don't, Ron Paul will not win. But I suspect that's what a lot of you want. You would rather be a victim.

[torchbearer]

I wouldn't say the LPL prides itself in losing.. but being a principled party.. we can't compete in louisiana because we dont buy votes unlike the other 2 parties. yeh, that's right. elections are bought and sold in louisiana. how do i know? ran for office twice. saw it and was offered in on it.. twice.

We are a very functional Libertarian Party in louisiana... we are led by people who put the ideas a purpose first.. and all the other bull (though it does happen) doesn't get in the way of running a ever increasing 3rd party in our state. in fact, we just became a major party in louisiana last year and this state will be the easiest for ron paul to get on the ballot if he doesn't get the GOP nod.