Spray painted on a wall in Paris, France.

[ctiger2]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/294334_10150335519752590_513247589_8136702_1974574 514_n.jpg

sent to me via a friend of a friend who's in Paris.

[wannaberocker]

Well France is euro socialist. What kinda revolution do they want? Euro socialist to communist? THey dont seem to want free market capitalism.

[TexMac]

Who's "they?" Individuals live in France, you know.

[affa]

Well France is euro socialist. What kinda revolution do they want? Euro socialist to communist? THey dont seem to want free market capitalism.

Your post is more collectivist than the 'French' are.

[Nate]

Your post is more collectivist than the 'French' are.
+rep

[Seraphim]

That word with love backwards and highlighted is an unofficial monicker for RON PAUL's revolution.

France may be socialist, but there are many non socialist living there.

Are all americans pro free markets/individualists?

You're statement is very collectivist. Just pointing that out.


Well France is euro socialist. What kinda revolution do they want? Euro socialist to communist? THey dont seem to want free market capitalism.

[Deborah K]

Your post is more collectivist than the 'French' are.

He is stereotyping. Stereotyping is not a form of collectivism. Collectivism is about sacrificing individualism for the good of the group, like with unions, government institutions, etc. Clumping people under a label is not necessarily collectivism. If it were, then calling Ron Paul supporters libertarians or freedom lovers would be collectivist.

[oyarde]

I must say , I saw more vandalism there , than in any large city I have ever been in , but last I was there was a long time ago .

[affa]

He is stereotyping. Stereotyping is not a form of collectivism. Collectivism is about sacrificing individualism for the good of the group, like with unions, government institutions, etc. Clumping people under a label is not necessarily collectivism. If it were, then calling Ron Paul supporters libertarians or freedom lovers would be collectivist.

First off, I was cracking a joke (with a point) more than trying to get in a word definition debate, but there is a crucial difference between Ron Paul's supporters and the French (well, barring the obvious, lol) -- a supporter chooses to be a supporter, and so it's somewhat safe to make some basic assumptions -- namely, that they believe in some decent percentage of what they are supporting.

However, one's nationality is born to them, and has no true bearing on their political leanings. Thus, calling a Ron Paul supporter a 'freedom lover', while stereotyping, is at least based on a firm relationship between the accusation and the professed stance of the individual - that is, taking person at their word that they believe what they profess to believe -- , whereas calling a French man a 'euro socialist' has no such footing in reality.

Now, one can also get into the difference between collectivist 'thinking' (which is what I was referring to) and collectivism as a form of government, but that would make this post far too long. Suffice it to say, they don't necessarily mean the same thing, at all, and one can be guilty of collectivist thinking without needing to 'sacrifice individualism for the good of the group'.

[brushfire]

As I recall, revolution had lead to some tough times over there.

[Deborah K]

First off, I was cracking a joke (with a point) more than trying to get in a word definition debate, but there is a crucial difference between Ron Paul's supporters and the French (well, barring the obvious, lol) -- a supporter chooses to be a supporter, and so it's somewhat safe to make some basic assumptions -- namely, that they believe in some decent percentage of what they are supporting.

However, one's nationality is born to them, and has no true bearing on their political leanings. Thus, calling a Ron Paul supporter a 'freedom lover', while stereotyping, is at least based on a firm relationship between the accusation and the professed stance of the individual - that is, taking person at their word that they believe what they profess to believe -- , whereas calling a French man a 'euro socialist' has no such footing in reality.

Now, one can also get into the difference between collectivist 'thinking' (which is what I was referring to) and collectivism as a form of government, but that would make this post far too long. Suffice it to say, they don't necessarily mean the same thing, at all, and one can be guilty of collectivist thinking without needing to 'sacrifice individualism for the good of the group'.

You aren't the only one in this thread who called the poster's response collectivist. I'm merely pointing out that all too often people confuse collectivism with stereotyping. Just trying to clarify the difference.

[wannaberocker]

Who's "they?" Individuals live in France, you know.

I know im just dicking around. Obviously i dont believe that everyone in france is a socialist. But there is a large number of socialist in the french society and they are a dominant force in france.

[affa]

I know im just dicking around. Obviously i dont believe that everyone in france is a socialist. But there is a large number of socialist in the french society and they are a dominant force in france.

if fox news and the so-called 'right' are to be believed, the same exact thing could be said of the US.

[eduardo89]

Well France is euro socialist. What kinda revolution do they want? Euro socialist to communist? THey dont seem to want free market capitalism.

Sounds like Spain. Except here we do have an small, yet important community of liberterian/austrian professors. There's a university here in Madrid that even offers a Masters in Austrian Economics. My former economics professor is a Mises guy and he founded the Mises-equivalent here in Spain (although it is pretty small and not well known...yet)

My university sucks though, complete socialist and keynesian indoctrination. I remember a professor last year telling us that the 50% top income tax bracket is not high enough, when I asked him how much he paid he told me 0%. I could not hold in my anger and called him out on it...I failed that class the first time around. My university even has a full economics course whose sole purpose is to justify government intervention in the economy because of the inherent failures of capitalism. Look at the syllabus:


STATE INTERVENTION

Knowledge of the variety of situations in which the free market leads to inefficient outcomes or a socially unacceptable distribution of wealth or resources, paving the way for an economic justification for state intervention.

[wannaberocker]

Sounds like Spain. Except here we do have an small, yet important community of liberterian/austrian professors. There's a university here in Madrid that even offers a Masters in Austrian Economics. My former economics professor is a Mises guy and he founded the Mises-equivalent here in Spain (although it is pretty small and not well known...yet)

My university sucks though, complete socialist and keynesian indoctrination. I remember a professor last year telling us that the 50% top income tax bracket is not high enough, when I asked him how much he paid he told me 0%. I could not hold in my anger and called him out on it...I failed that class the first time around. My university even has a full economics course whose sole purpose is to justify government intervention in the economy because of the inherent failures of capitalism. Look at the syllabus:

That is pretty sad. I had a professor in economics that was a big govt guy. Basically to pass his class i put myself in the shoes of a big govt supporters. I wrote all papers from that standpoint and i got an A in the class. Im sure if i was critical of his beliefs he would have failed me.

[eduardo89]

That is pretty sad. I had a professor in economics that was a big govt guy. Basically to pass his class i put myself in the shoes of a big govt supporters. I wrote all papers from that standpoint and i got an A in the class. Im sure if i was critical of his beliefs he would have failed me.

Yeah that's basically the mindset I have to put myself in. I do often make extremely sarcastic comments about how great government is. Professors hate that. Luckily in an economic history class I got an open-minded prof and I did ALL my work on Hayek, Mises, and the failure of government intervention. I even brought up Ron Paul in my final essay/presentation (sadly there was only one American in that class). I got a 9.7/10 overall, which was the highest grade in the course :)

Also, I had a Mises fellow as my intro to economics teacher in 1st year...He's a really smart guy, but he absolutely hated teaching that course which turned quite a few students off him. He now does an "economic enviroment" course which I hear is really good, it's mostly discussions and apperently 90% of the readings he gives are from Mises or Cato. He's big on research about green jobs and how its' been an utter failure here in Spain, even testified in front of Congress. This is him:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZdLZLqIH4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0glS2YruN4
his english is not that good haha

[Sola_Fide]

He is stereotyping. Stereotyping is not a form of collectivism. Collectivism is about sacrificing individualism for the good of the group, like with unions, government institutions, etc. Clumping people under a label is not necessarily collectivism. If it were, then calling Ron Paul supporters libertarians or freedom lovers would be collectivist.

I've mentioned this before on this forum and my post was shot down in flames lol. Stereotyping does not equal collectivism.

[Seraphim]

wow...


Sounds like Spain. Except here we do have an small, yet important community of liberterian/austrian professors. There's a university here in Madrid that even offers a Masters in Austrian Economics. My former economics professor is a Mises guy and he founded the Mises-equivalent here in Spain (although it is pretty small and not well known...yet)

My university sucks though, complete socialist and keynesian indoctrination. I remember a professor last year telling us that the 50% top income tax bracket is not high enough, when I asked him how much he paid he told me 0%. I could not hold in my anger and called him out on it...I failed that class the first time around. My university even has a full economics course whose sole purpose is to justify government intervention in the economy because of the inherent failures of capitalism. Look at the syllabus:

[ZanZibar]

Vandalizing is not respect for property.

[Sola_Fide]

Vandalizing is not respect for property.

One of my friends is a French professor and she has taught in France and she always talks about how sad it is that the beautiful, historic structures in Europe are always littered with graffiti.

[eduardo89]

One of my friends is a French professor and she has taught in France and she always talks about how sad it is that the beautiful, historic structures in Europe are always littered with graffiti.

You should see Germany. Every single paintable surface is covered in graffiti. It's sad.

[Deborah K]

I've mentioned this before on this forum and my post was shot down in flames lol. Stereotyping does not equal collectivism.


That's because a lot of people don't have a clear understanding of what collectivism is, whether they're willing to admit it or not. I'm student of G. Edward Griffin, collectivism and stereotyping are not the same thing.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMYicq_SN1E

[wannaberocker]

Yeah that's basically the mindset I have to put myself in. I do often make extremely sarcastic comments about how great government is. Professors hate that. Luckily in an economic history class I got an open-minded prof and I did ALL my work on Hayek, Mises, and the failure of government intervention. I even brought up Ron Paul in my final essay/presentation (sadly there was only one American in that class). I got a 9.7/10 overall, which was the highest grade in the course :)

Also, I had a Mises fellow as my intro to economics teacher in 1st year...He's a really smart guy, but he absolutely hated teaching that course which turned quite a few students off him. He now does an "economic enviroment" course which I hear is really good, it's mostly discussions and apperently 90% of the readings he gives are from Mises or Cato. He's big on research about green jobs and how its' been an utter failure here in Spain, even testified in front of Congress. This is him:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZdLZLqIH4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0glS2YruN4
his english is not that good haha
Professor Gabby sounds like an interesting guy.

[eduardo89]

Professor Gabby sounds like an interesting guy.

He is. If anyone speaks Spanish here's a link to Spain's version of the Mises Institute http://www.juandemariana.org/

and he's a link to Calzada's works http://www.juandemariana.org/autor/3/gabriel/calzada/

and to his most famous work on green jobs http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090327-employment-public-aid-renewable.pdf (in English)

[Anti Federalist]

There is something seriously fucked up with our system when European socialists can build stuff like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Queen_Mary_II_Einlaufen_Hamburg_Hafengeburtstag_20 06_-2.jpg

[eduardo89]

There is something seriously fucked up with our system when European socialists can build stuff like this:


It was built by STX Europe, which is a subsidiary of STX Corp, a Korean company which happens to be the 4th largest shipbuilder in the world. (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th are also Korean: Hyundai, Daewoo, Samsung and Hyundai Samho respectively. South Korea also has Sungdong which is another top-20 biggest worldwide)

And it was built for Carnival, and American company.

[wannaberocker]

He is. If anyone speaks Spanish here's a link to Spain's version of the Mises Institute http://www.juandemariana.org/

and he's a link to Calzada's works http://www.juandemariana.org/autor/3/gabriel/calzada/

and to his most famous work on green jobs http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090327-employment-public-aid-renewable.pdf (in English)

Thanks man ill def check out the green jobs stuff (which is in english). THat is something i hear alot about from leftist.

[Anti Federalist]

It was built by STX Europe, which is a subsidiary of STX Corp, a Korean company which happens to be the 4th largest shipbuilder in the world. (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th are also Korean: Hyundai, Daewoo, Samsung and Hyundai Samho respectively. South Korea also has Sungdong which is another top-20 biggest worldwide)

And it was built for Carnival, and American company.

The fact remains that it was built in France at a French shipyard.

STX bought out Chantiers de l'Atlantique from Alstom in 2006, three years after QM2 was launched.

I don't see the Koreans or the French building ships like that here.