Feds just assassinated 2 Americans

[Aden]

So much for trials, juries and proving guilt.


Aulaqi, born in New Mexico to Yemeni parents, has been implicated in helping to motivate several attacks on U.S. soil. He is said to have inspired an Army officer who allegedly killed 13 people in a November 2009 shooting rampage at Fort Hood, Tex., as well as a Ni*ger*ian student accused of attempting to bomb a Detroit-bound airliner the following month and a Pakistani American man who tried to set off a car bomb in New York City in May 2010. Aulaqi has also been linked to an attempt in 2010 to send parcel bombs on cargo plans bound for the United States

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/anwar-al-aulaqi-us-born-cleric-linked-to-al-qaeda-killed-yemen-says/2011/09/30/gIQAsoWO9K_story.html

[TheState]

Luckily there are still people like Glenn Greenwald out there, The due-process-free assassination of U.S. citizens is now reality (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/30/awlaki)


From an authoritarian perspective, that's the genius of America's political culture. It not only finds way to obliterate the most basic individual liberties designed to safeguard citizens from consummate abuses of power (such as extinguishing the lives of citizens without due process). It actually gets its citizens to stand up and clap and even celebrate the destruction of those safeguards.

[Cowlesy]

Do we know if these two previously renounced their citizenship?

[Xchange]

Luckily there are still people like Glenn Greenwald out there, The due-process-free assassination of U.S. citizens is now reality (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/30/awlaki)


from the same piece



long-time close friend President Saleh, who took a little time off from murdering his own citizens to help the U.S. murder its.

:toady:

[fisharmor]

Do we know if these two previously renounced their citizenship?

That would matter how, exactly?

[specsaregood]

That would matter how, exactly?
Well it would make the thread title incorrect. :)

[pcosmar]

Do we know if these two previously renounced their citizenship?

Does that even matter.
Or are targeted assassinations based on allegations acceptable?


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

[civusamericanus]

Do we know if these two previously renounced their citizenship?
The Washington Post article said he had dual citizenship, nothing about him renouncing his citizenship. One thing is for sure, he was "Born in the USA".

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

They always target the most outcast, the most wretched, recluse, and social stigma'd individuals to set the precedent of State-abuse of power. Every country has done it. They have concentration camps on the books as US law through the Kuramatsu case ('internment' of American citizens of Japanese descent WWII), now they have the precedent of assassination they can use at any time with full discretion. Of course the imbeciles cheer it on -- they're stupid and uneducated thanks to the socialist-Government school system which serves as a conduit of business and State-interest (Prussian system). It's always easier when they say 'war' too. Even Jeffrey Dahmer had a trial.

I guess the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. Maddening.

[Anti Federalist]

This is just starting.

Once the precedent is set, there will be no stopping it.

[vita3]

America has FORGOTTEN that the FBI had this very evil guy

"The FBI interviewed al-Awlaki four times in the eight days following the 9/11 attacks. [44][62] One detective told the 9/11 Commission he believed al-Awlaki “was at the center of the 9/11 story.” And an FBI agent said that “if anyone had knowledge of the plot, it would have been” him, since “someone had to be in the U.S. and keep the hijackers spiritually focused.”[44] One 9/11 Commission staff member said: “Do I think he played a role in helping the hijackers here, knowing they were up to something? Yes"

[affa]

In case anyone isn't paying attention, we're well past the start of it all at this point.

As much as I like to stay positive and not energize the opposition, I can't help acknowledging it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Just reading the comments on that story - where almost noone even recognizes this was an assassination of a US citizen, is alarming. Whoosh, over their heads.

[TonySutton]

People do not care, it is very sad. If al-Awlaki was the blonde haired, blue eyed daughter of a rich man it would matter but he is a muslim so no one cares. It saddens me that our country has slipped so far from its roots.

[affa]

From the article:
"From an authoritarian perspective, that's the genius of America's political culture. It not only finds way to obliterate the most basic individual liberties designed to safeguard citizens from consummate abuses of power (such as extinguishing the lives of citizens without due process). It actually gets its citizens to stand up and clap and even celebrate the destruction of those safeguards."

This. This x1000.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

So much for trials, juries and proving guilt.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/anwar-al-aulaqi-us-born-cleric-linked-to-al-qaeda-killed-yemen-says/2011/09/30/gIQAsoWO9K_story.html

I knew this day was coming, but now it is here, and it truly is a sad day.

[thehighwaymanq]

How is this different from tyrants killing their own citizens during protests?

[Aden]

Go to Drudge right now. Third link down on the left is of Ron Paul condemning the "assassination."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CLERIC_KILLED_RON_PAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-09-30-10-34-45

[Lucille]

Boobus thinks it's grand.

I can't say I'll be immune to the Schadenfreude when the assassin's gun (or drone, as the case may be) is aimed at them. Though, being the right-wing extremist that I am, no doubt they'll come gunning for me first.

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!

Something to Go Galt About (http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2011/09/30/something-to-go-galt-about/)


Magna Carta, in addition to providing for trial by jury, committed the king and his successors to the promise that he would never “attack [any free man] or send anyone to attack him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers.” By 1787, this principle was so deeply embedded in English legal thought that Blackstone thought that if a king were to ignore it, he would surely ignite a lawful and successful revolution: “To bereave a man of life . . . without accusation or trial, would be so gross an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole kingdom.”

[Krugerrand]

Show this to any conservative that doesn't agree with Ron Paul on this:

What's the logical conclusion if Dear Vice-Leader calls Tea Party activists "terrorists."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF85dej1uMw

[RDM]

Ron Paul on Cavuto on FOX next.

[Pericles]

This is just starting.

Once the precedent is set, there will be no stopping it.

Yes, but then it goes both ways.

[enjerth]

Boobus thinks it's grand.

I can't say I'll be immune to the Schadenfreude when the assassin's gun (or drone, as the case may be) is aimed at them. Though, being the right-wing extremist that I am, no doubt they'll come gunning for me first.

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!

Something to Go Galt About (http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2011/09/30/something-to-go-galt-about/)

I've read that before, and always considered a more appropriate response (to cutting down every law in pursuit of the devil):

And when you have done that, having entirely laid waste to the law, and you have taken the devil and eliminated him; when you turn back and see the path of destruction that you have left, ask yourself this: have I become a greater instrument of evil than the devil himself?

[John F Kennedy III]

Yet again we are supposed to believe a CIA asset is dead without any proof.

[Anti Federalist]

Yet again we are supposed to believe a CIA asset is dead without any proof.

Well, there is that angle as well.

He'll get "killed" again five years from now.

[moderate libertarian]

What was their race? Besides citizenship, race/ethnicity also matters in such decisions.

As Obam ahas been planted by borderline racist lobbies, won't be surprised if he does not operate with one standard on such calls.




Erdogan slams Obama for silence on Israel's Gaza flotilla raid

"I asked President Obama whether the reason he showed no interest in one of his nationals being killed was because [the victim] was [ethnically] Turkish - he didn't reply," said Erdogan.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/erdogan-slams-obama-for-silence-on-israel-s-gaza-flotilla-raid-1.383618

[ZanZibar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGexershHu8



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlvm3VhOqek



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95xo9Indh2Q



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZWcFzUBsdA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb0FsId8piM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qzs-57av0s



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-z-quSYOE4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh-DtNdPQNc

[John F Kennedy III]

Well, there is that angle as well.

He'll get "killed" again five years from now.

Yeah. Just like Bin Laden has been killed 6 or 7 times.

[heavenlyboy34]

This is just starting.

Once the precedent is set, there will be no stopping it.
qft! I can imagine the predator drones being sent after us(especially when we congregate in large numbers). :eek:

[Agorism]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-MOr-i6vQ

[LisaNY]

LOL, notice how Obama kills someone every time his ratings go down?

[Anti Federalist]

qft! I can imagine the predator drones being sent after us(especially when we congregate in large numbers). :eek:

We all had better be ready to run like hell when some major staged "terror" event goes down and it's blamed on us.

I lived through that in the 90s, and it's a 100 times worse now.

[Inkblots]

I'm honestly scared now.

I have never been honestly frightened of the Federal government. I've held it in contempt, I've thought it was in desperate need of reform, that the rule of law needs to be reestablished in this land. But I've always been able to tell myself that things have been worse, and we've managed to restore normalcy and freedom. In the last years of the 18th century, the Alien and Sedition Acts sought to place the government beyond criticism, but the states fought back and they were undone. During the Civil War, journalists were persecuted and forced to flee to Canada, but normalcy returned. World War I brought the Sedition Act and Eugene Debs and many others were given long prison terms for opposing the war and the draft in word and print, but we stepped back from the brink. World War II brought the internment by the military of over 100,000 American citizens, but freedom, though sore wounded, still survived in this country, and recovered somewhat after the war.

I have always recalled Smith's happy phrase, "there is a great deal of ruin in a nation" - that is, that a nation can survive all manner of events and happenings that one might declare ruinous, and predict would cause the death of the country. I have always comforted myself that, whatever the abuses of the "Global War on Terror", freedom in the country has survived worse blows.

As of yesterday, this is no longer true. The American government now not only aspires to, but has realized, the ability to kill its own citizens - citizens who are not engaged in any violent activity, and are far from any battlefield - without due process, with no judicial review, and with no recourse of law available to them whatever. Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan were not the only ones killed by those Hellfire missiles - the Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution was annihilated right along with them.

This is utterly unprecedented. This was not a mistake, or a decision wrongly taken in the heat of battle. This was not the result of a criminal conspiracy, or done in secret to avoid the sight of the Law. This was a decision taken with deliberate care. This decision was publicized and made known to the people. The family of one of the men targeted and the ACLU sought the protection of the courts, an injunction to prevent the Executive from depriving the US citizen al-Awlaki of LIFE without due process of law, and were denied recourse in the courts - they lacked standing, they were told. Only the man himself had standing - if he could avoid the US government death squads, and somehow managed to make it alive to a courthouse, perhaps then the judiciary would considered his case. This was worthy of Kafka. And now, having vowed to kill these men in flagrant violation of the supreme and basic law of the land, the Executive has delivered upon its threat, and, far from hiding it, has trumpeted it to the world, to applause and approval across the political spectrum. Again, I say, unprecedented.

Now, for the first time, I say things are worse in the Republic than they have ever been.

Now, for the first time, I say I am afraid of my government. I'm in tears as I write this.

What will we do?

[Anti Federalist]

A well written assessment, right from the heart.

What do we do? Well, nothing right now, more than what we are doing. I am concerned about the switch being thrown after another real or manufactured "terror" attack.

At that time it will be: fight, fuck or hit the fence, and I ain't kidding.


I'm honestly scared now.

I have never been honestly frightened of the Federal government. I've held it in contempt, I've thought it was in desperate need of reform, that the rule of law needs to be reestablished in this land. But I've always been able to tell myself that things have been worse, and we've managed to restore normalcy and freedom. In the last years of the 18th century, the Alien and Sedition Acts sought to place the government beyond criticism, but the states fought back and they were undone. During the Civil War, journalists were persecuted and forced to flee to Canada, but normalcy returned. World War I brought the Sedition Act and Eugene Debs and many others were given long prison terms for opposing the war and the draft in word and print, but we stepped back from the brink. World War II brought the internment by the military of over 100,000 American citizens, but freedom, though sore wounded, still survived in this country, and recovered somewhat after the war.

I have always recalled Smith's happy phrase, "there is a great deal of ruin in a nation" - that is, that a nation can survive all manner of events and happenings that one might declare ruinous, and predict would cause the death of the country. I have always comforted myself that, whatever the abuses of the "Global War on Terror", freedom in the country has survived worse blows.

As of yesterday, this is no longer true. The American government now not only aspires to, but has realized, the ability to kill its own citizens - citizens who are not engaged in any violent actiivty, and are far from any battlefield - without due process, with no judicial review, and with no recourse of law available to them whatever. Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan were not the only ones killed by those Hellfire missiles - the Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution was annihilated right along with them.

This is utterly unprecedented. This was not a mistake, or a decision wrongly taken in the heat of battle. This was not the results of a criminal conspiracy, or done in secret to avoid the sight of the Law. This was a decision taken with deliberate care. This decision was publicized and made known to the people. The family of the man taken and the ACLU sought the protection of the courts, an injunction to prevent the Executive from depriving the US citizen al-Awlaki of LIFE without due process of law, and were denied recourse in the courts - they lacked standing, they were told. Only the man himself had standing - if he could avoid the US government death squads, and somehow managed to make it alive to a courthouse, perhaps then the judiciary would considered his case. This was worthy of Kafka. And now, having vowed to kill these men in flagrant violation of the supreme and basic law of the land, the Executive has delivered on it's threat, and, far from hiding it, has trumpeted it to the world, to applause and approval across the political spectrum. Again, I say, unprecedented.

Now, for the first time, I say things are worse in the Republic than they have ever been.

Now, for the first time, I say I am afraid of my government. I'm in tears as I write this.

What will we do?

[John F Kennedy III]

A well written assessment, right from the heart.

What do we do? Well, nothing right now, more than what we are doing. I am concerned about the switch being thrown after another real or manufactured "terror" attack.

At that time it will be: fight, fuck or hit the fence, and I ain't kidding.

100% correct. Not many places to run though. Switzerland? Idk...

[Travlyr]

I'm honestly scared now.

I have never been honestly frightened of the Federal government. I've held it in contempt, I've thought it was in desperate need of reform, that the rule of law needs to be reestablished in this land. But I've always been able to tell myself that things have been worse, and we've managed to restore normalcy and freedom. In the last years of the 18th century, the Alien and Sedition Acts sought to place the government beyond criticism, but the states fought back and they were undone. During the Civil War, journalists were persecuted and forced to flee to Canada, but normalcy returned. World War I brought the Sedition Act and Eugene Debs and many others were given long prison terms for opposing the war and the draft in word and print, but we stepped back from the brink. World War II brought the internment by the military of over 100,000 American citizens, but freedom, though sore wounded, still survived in this country, and recovered somewhat after the war.

I have always recalled Smith's happy phrase, "there is a great deal of ruin in a nation" - that is, that a nation can survive all manner of events and happenings that one might declare ruinous, and predict would cause the death of the country. I have always comforted myself that, whatever the abuses of the "Global War on Terror", freedom in the country has survived worse blows.

As of yesterday, this is no longer true. The American government now not only aspires to, but has realized, the ability to kill its own citizens - citizens who are not engaged in any violent activity, and are far from any battlefield - without due process, with no judicial review, and with no recourse of law available to them whatever. Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan were not the only ones killed by those Hellfire missiles - the Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution was annihilated right along with them.

This is utterly unprecedented. This was not a mistake, or a decision wrongly taken in the heat of battle. This was not the result of a criminal conspiracy, or done in secret to avoid the sight of the Law. This was a decision taken with deliberate care. This decision was publicized and made known to the people. The family of one of the men targeted and the ACLU sought the protection of the courts, an injunction to prevent the Executive from depriving the US citizen al-Awlaki of LIFE without due process of law, and were denied recourse in the courts - they lacked standing, they were told. Only the man himself had standing - if he could avoid the US government death squads, and somehow managed to make it alive to a courthouse, perhaps then the judiciary would considered his case. This was worthy of Kafka. And now, having vowed to kill these men in flagrant violation of the supreme and basic law of the land, the Executive has delivered upon its threat, and, far from hiding it, has trumpeted it to the world, to applause and approval across the political spectrum. Again, I say, unprecedented.

Now, for the first time, I say things are worse in the Republic than they have ever been.

Now, for the first time, I say I am afraid of my government. I'm in tears as I write this.

What will we do?

This is well said. What will we do?

Can we use common law?
Common Law Grand Jury (http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/grandjuryrules.htm)

[pcosmar]

100% correct. Not many places to run though. Switzerland? Idk...

You believe that there are no hit squads in Switzerland? No CIA operatives or operations there?

Any countries that are not in the UN?

:(

[John F Kennedy III]

You believe that there are no hit squads in Switzerland? No CIA operatives or operations there?

Any countries that are not in the UN?

:(

I never said any of that...

[pcosmar]

I never said any of that...

The Swiss have been safe because they hold everyone's coats. They are the Bankers that funnel money for the arms dealers that supply all sides of every conflict.
This has protected them in the past.

Switzerland is very socialist and in the heart of socialism. They will be in the center of the One World Government.

Not someplace I care to be.

[heavenlyboy34]

We all had better be ready to run like hell when some major staged "terror" event goes down and it's blamed on us.

I lived through that in the 90s, and it's a 100 times worse now.
You mean the OKC bombings? I'm too young to remember all the "terror" events of the 90's. (I was only 10 in 1991)

[John F Kennedy III]

The Swiss have been safe because they hold everyone's coats. They are the Bankers that funnel money for the arms dealers that supply all sides of every conflict.
This has protected them in the past.

Switzerland is very socialist and in the heart of socialism. They will be in the center of the One World Government.

Not someplace I care to be.

What countries would you recommend?