CA - Cops shoot and kill two pet dogs at park for barking at people.

[Anti Federalist]

Police Kill Two Dogs, Bella And Jordan, In San Mateo, CA

http://www.care2.com/causes/police-kill-two-dogs-bella-and-jordan-in-san-mateo.html#ixzz1ZN1gUNDl

A family in San Mateo, California is expressing outrage that police shot and killed their two dogs after they escaped and started barking at children in a park.

Carla Torres, 38, says her two boxers, a female named Bella and a male named Jordan, may have been loose and loud at Laurie Meadows Park, having escaped out a side gate at her home, but that there was no reason for officers to shoot them.

Police Shot Both Dogs

From The San Francisco Chronicle:

The incident happened on Monday, when a “frantic” citizen called 911, reporting that “two vicious boxer-type dogs” were at the park growling at people, including a group of small children practicing soccer, said police Sgt. Dave Norris.

(…)

Officers arrived and saw that the dogs were “behaving in an increasingly threatening manner, creating a clearly dangerous environment toward the officers and others in the park,” Norris said.

As other officers cleared people from the park, an officer tried to use a Taser shock weapon on one of the dogs, but it didn’t stop the dog.

Without waiting for animal control to arrive, the police shot both dogs, killing Jordan and wounding Bella, who was later euthanized.

Two Differing Points Of View

Police have described the dogs as vicious and said they were threatening another dog and a child. They say animal control was called, but the situation escalated too quickly, forcing officers to open fire. They say they had no choice but to use their weapons.

Torres says she’s sorry that kids got scared at the park, but points out that the pair of year-old dogs, who were from the same litter, hadn’t bitten anyone at the park. In fact, no people were injured in the incident.

So why didn’t the cops wait until animal control arrived?

“They Were Wonderful Dogs”

Her daughter, Cheyenne Torres, 13, said this was the first time the dogs had escaped.

“They were wonderful dogs,” Cheyenne said. “Bella was shy. She was really quiet. She wouldn’t hurt a fly, and Jordan, he was really hyper and he would bark more than Bella. He was so loving.”

A sad and disturbing story of two unnecessary deaths.

What do you think?

[jkr]

I THINK the WRONG ANIMALS WERE DESTROYED

[Krugerrand]

1. They shot them because they could (and perhaps they had already used up all their vacation time).
2. 911 callers' names should be reported in these stories.
3. I don't recommend trying this if it's a police dog and you're a mundane.

[phill4paul]

Dunno, the fact that they were not on their owners property and were seen as threatening the kids makes this a little different from other posts. Personally, If I were a parent and a dog approached my children in a threatening manner I would not wait for them to bite before I acted. I put the blame of this on the dogs owners. Still a sad situation all the way around. I do have to question the use of lethal force in a public park with children around. But then again I wasn't there.

[Krugerrand]

Dunno, the fact that they were not on their owners property and were seen as threatening the kids makes this a little different from other posts. Personally, If I were a parent and a dog approached my children in a threatening manner I would not wait for them to bite before I acted. I put the blame of this on the dogs owners. Still a sad situation all the way around. I do have to question the use of lethal force in a public park with children around. But then again I wasn't there.

Agree with the concerns for children being present. Plus, they apparently had been told the dogs were acting aggressively. However, it sounded like they had cleared out the park and then shot the dogs.

[Anti Federalist]

Agree with the concerns for children being present. Plus, they apparently had been told the dogs were acting aggressively. However, it sounded like they had cleared out the park and then shot the dogs.

That.

Also, "acting aggressively" is extraordinarily subjective.

Maybe you could make up one of your epic data cards, K, with a series of pictures, starting with a barking, foaming, clearly aggressive dog getting ready to bite, along with other pictures of friendly dogs with kids or sleeping, and all labeled "acting aggressively".

[Pizzo]

Boxers can do things and act in certain ways that may look like aggressiveness to people not familiar with the breed. They can be very vocal/growly while playing. Also, many times people seem to be scared of bully breeds in general. Sucks, but there is a good chance the Boxers were shot for being Boxers.

[scottditzen]

Man, much like shark attacks on Drudge Report, this forum is becoming the "go to" place to learn about police-on-dog violence.

Depressing!

[Brian4Liberty]

Boxers can do things and act in certain ways that may look like aggressiveness to people not familiar with the breed. They can be very vocal/growly while playing. Also, many times people seem to be scared of bully breeds in general. Sucks, but there is a good chance the Boxers were shot for being Boxers.

Yep, Boxers are spazs.

Dogs running around barking, who would think that could happen? :rolleyes:

[Acala]

Dunno, the fact that they were not on their owners property and were seen as threatening the kids makes this a little different from other posts. Personally, If I were a parent and a dog approached my children in a threatening manner I would not wait for them to bite before I acted. I put the blame of this on the dogs owners. Still a sad situation all the way around. I do have to question the use of lethal force in a public park with children around. But then again I wasn't there.

I have to agree. Big dogs can be dangerous animals. The number of children who are seriously injured each year from dog bites is pretty alarming. If you want a big dog, that's fine as long as it stays on your property. Once it escapes your control, you have no complaint if people feel threatened.

Oh, and by the way, if a child at the park HAD been bitten because the cops didn't stop it - City gets sued and taxpayers pay.

[Brian4Liberty]

Hyperbole and spin from the Police spokesman:


The incident began at about 4:20 p.m. Monday when a "frantic" citizen called 911, reporting that "two vicious boxer-type dogs" were at the park growling at people, including a group of small children practicing soccer, said police Sgt. Dave Norris.

Bella and Jordan began threatening a small dog and a child, Norris said.

"Some of the adults on scene bravely placed themselves in harm's way by positioning themselves between the vicious animals and the children in the park," Norris said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/27/BA5T1LAA1A.DTL#ixzz1ZNGCl2B2

[Revolution9]

Not being funny. I can see a market for bullet proof dog armor. This is so wrong. Horse was the transportation and dogs were the security and hunting partner that allowed America to be settled. Cops are a later fascist addition. Policemen would not shoot your dog. That is a common law crime. A police officer is a corporate thug. They enforce legal stricture under color of law.


Rev9

[Brian4Liberty]

Oh, and by the way, if a child at the park HAD been bitten because the cops didn't stop it - City gets sued and taxpayers pay.

You have a point there. The majority of the seemingly idiotic, counter-productive and wasteful actions of law enforcement are the result of legal CYA.

[Brian4Liberty]

You have a point there. The majority of the seemingly idiotic, counter-productive and wasteful actions of law enforcement are the result of legal CYA.

And a lot of the rest of the time is spent discussing Union negotiations, pay, overtime, retirement and internal politics.

[fisharmor]

What do you think?

I think if they were my dogs I'd have left them in the park, gotten a ticket for littering or some bullshit, and taken it to court to explain that I would have been happy to remove my living dogs from the park.
I do wonder if the tax cattle who owned them did the state's cleanup for them as well.

[Acala]

Not being funny. I can see a market for bullet proof dog armor. This is so wrong. Horse was the transportation and dogs were the security and hunting partner that allowed America to be settled. Cops are a later fascist addition. Policemen would not shoot your dog. That is a common law crime. A police officer is a corporate thug. They enforce legal stricture under color of law.


Rev9

I'm not sure which good old days you are talking about, but here and in Europe they used to make and sell pistols specifically FOR citizens to shoot annoying dogs.

If I had small kids and I thought a dog was going to bite one of them I would shoot the dog without hesitation or a second thought. And it would be the fault of the person who failed to control their dog.

[Acala]

You have a point there. The majority of the seemingly idiotic, counter-productive and wasteful actions of law enforcement are the result of legal CYA.

And mental illness.

[Rael]

Dunno, the fact that they were not on their owners property and were seen as threatening the kids makes this a little different from other posts. Personally, If I were a parent and a dog approached my children in a threatening manner I would not wait for them to bite before I acted. I put the blame of this on the dogs owners. Still a sad situation all the way around. I do have to question the use of lethal force in a public park with children around. But then again I wasn't there.

I have to agree. I'm sad that the dogs are dead. At least in this case the cop actually tried to use non-lethal means with the taser.
Another incident that never would have happened had the owner of the dogs been responsible and kept the dogs from getting loose.

[Brian4Liberty]

Boxers are also notorious escape artists.

[Flugel89]

Oh, and by the way, if a child at the park HAD been bitten because the cops didn't stop it - City gets sued and taxpayers pay.

What happened to police officers not being responsible to protect the individual?

[affa]

i don't know. i just can't imagine shooting boxers in this situation rather than waiting for animal control.

if they were able to wait for cops to get there without children getting bit, then certainly with cops there, and children leaving the area, there should have been zero problem waiting another 5, 10 minutes.

[satchelmcqueen]

Boxers can do things and act in certain ways that may look like aggressiveness to people not familiar with the breed. They can be very vocal/growly while playing. Also, many times people seem to be scared of bully breeds in general. Sucks, but there is a good chance the Boxers were shot for being Boxers.i ve owned boxers allof my life and i agree with you. boxers are the biggest babies ive ever seen in many circumstances. they love kids and are very good with kids but ive always noticed that when people unfimiliar with the breed see a boxer growl when playing get scared for no reason.

[Krugerrand]

That.

Also, "acting aggressively" is extraordinarily subjective.

Maybe you could make up one of your epic data cards, K, with a series of pictures, starting with a barking, foaming, clearly aggressive dog getting ready to bite, along with other pictures of friendly dogs with kids or sleeping, and all labeled "acting aggressively".

Here's what came to mind first:



Officers arrived and saw that the dogs were “behaving in an increasingly threatening manner, creating a clearly dangerous environment toward the officers and others in the park,” Norris said.

Police have described the dogs as vicious and said they were threatening another dog and a child. They say animal control was called, but the situation escalated too quickly, forcing officers to open fire. They say they had no choice but to use their weapons.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2moov7k.jpg

[pcosmar]

I have a brother with a psychotic fear of dogs. He is threatened by the very presence of a dog regardless of size or temperament.

Many Cops in these stories remind me of him.

[TonySutton]

I would like to hear the 911 call to verify the description provided by the police and I would like to see a timeline of events.

It is clearly stated the police were between the dogs and other citizens so I find it hard to believe they could not wait for animal control.

From reading several articles it appears the 911 calls came in around 4:20, officers were dispatched at 4:29, the police arrived around 4:32, the police shot the dogs around 4:35...

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county/ci_18986220?source=rss

[Acala]

What happened to police officers not being responsible to protect the individual?

The cops as individuals would not have been sued. The City would have been sued as owner and operator of the park for failing to provide a safe environment. Nobody ever gets hurt on City property without the City getting sued.

[Pizzo]

I would like to hear the 911 call to verify the description provided by the police and I would like to see a timeline of events.

It is clearly stated the police were between the dogs and other citizens so I find it hard to believe they could not wait for animal control.

From reading several articles it appears the 911 calls came in around 4:20, officers were dispatched at 4:29, the police arrived around 4:32, the police shot the dogs around 4:35...

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county/ci_18986220?source=rss

So these "vicious, aggressive dogs" were loose for 16 minutes and in that span of time did not hurt anyone. Lovely.

[Revolution9]

I'm not sure which good old days you are talking about, but here and in Europe they used to make and sell pistols specifically FOR citizens to shoot annoying dogs.

If I had small kids and I thought a dog was going to bite one of them I would shoot the dog without hesitation or a second thought. And it would be the fault of the person who failed to control their dog.

Me too. But I would know what was going on. Cops do not know in most of these posts by AF and assume and life winds up dead that did not pose a threat..a real threat..not some imaginary psuedo-threat.

Best Regards
rev9

[Revolution9]

The cops as individuals would not have been sued. The City would have been sued as owner and operator of the park for failing to provide a safe environment. Nobody ever gets hurt on City property without the City getting sued.

I did. It was considered part of my growing up by my parents.

Rev9

[Brian4Liberty]

I would like to hear the 911 call to verify the description provided by the police and I would like to see a timeline of events.

It is clearly stated the police were between the dogs and other citizens so I find it hard to believe they could not wait for animal control.

From reading several articles it appears the 911 calls came in around 4:20, officers were dispatched at 4:29, the police arrived around 4:32, the police shot the dogs around 4:35...

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county/ci_18986220?source=rss

No doubt the 911 call was some hysterical person with a dog phobia. The Police really need to take callers with a grain of salt instead of charging in ready to shoot based on a random caller.

And from your link, it looks like the Police are now claiming that someone was bit. Hmmm.

[Krugerrand]

No doubt the 911 call was some hysterical person with a dog phobia. The Police really need to take callers with a grain of salt instead of charging in ready to shoot based on a random caller.

And from your link, it looks like the Police are now claiming that someone was bit. Hmmm.

Yeah ... that's an odd detail to come out late.

[Acala]

I did. It was considered part of my growing up by my parents.

Rev9

That was a LONG time ago, Gramps!

Just kidding about the Gramps part - I think we are about the same age. But the world HAS changed since then.

[Acala]

Me too. But I would know what was going on. Cops do not know in most of these posts by AF and assume and life winds up dead that did not pose a threat..a real threat..not some imaginary psuedo-threat.

Best Regards
rev9

When the cops enter private property and shoot a dog, I am on the side of the dog owner. When the dog owner allows his dog off his property in an uncontrolled manner, I am with those who take the steps they feel are needed to control the dog. It is a property rights issue.

[Krugerrand]

When the cops enter private property and shoot a dog, I am on the side of the dog owner. When the dog owner allows his dog off his property in an uncontrolled manner, I am with those who take the steps they feel are needed to control the dog. It is a property rights issue.

I don't trust this guy shooting at anything in a park where children play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_EoRZOVes

[Acala]

I don't trust this guy shooting at anything in a park where children play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_EoRZOVes

Good point.

[speciallyblend]

I have a brother with a psychotic fear of dogs. He is threatened by the very presence of a dog regardless of size or temperament.

Many Cops in these stories remind me of him.


he better be scared i will sick Bailey or Butters on him:) 14231424

[AME3]

Yep, I agree with Acala and phill4paul. The dogs dangerous or not were off the owners property and perceived as being an immediate threat. I don't see cops in general, especially in SF as wanting to shoot dogs for kicks or whatever. I do realize that there are cops who panic and loose it....regardless, the dogs were off leash....
I have to agree. Big dogs can be dangerous animals. The number of children who are seriously injured each year from dog bites is pretty alarming. If you want a big dog, that's fine as long as it stays on your property. Once it escapes your control, you have no complaint if people feel threatened.

Oh, and by the way, if a child at the park HAD been bitten because the cops didn't stop it - City gets sued and taxpayers pay.

[AME3]

Fear any bite from any animal, rabies is a real bitch...:eek:
he better be scared i will sick Bailey or Butters on him:) 14231424

[r3volution]

owners fault . you are responsible for your animals . but 911 should have dispatched AC , not the cops .

[azxd]

Dunno, the fact that they were not on their owners property and were seen as threatening the kids makes this a little different from other posts. Personally, If I were a parent and a dog approached my children in a threatening manner I would not wait for them to bite before I acted. I put the blame of this on the dogs owners. Still a sad situation all the way around. I do have to question the use of lethal force in a public park with children around. But then again I wasn't there.

I have to agree. Big dogs can be dangerous animals. The number of children who are seriously injured each year from dog bites is pretty alarming. If you want a big dog, that's fine as long as it stays on your property. Once it escapes your control, you have no complaint if people feel threatened.

Oh, and by the way, if a child at the park HAD been bitten because the cops didn't stop it - City gets sued and taxpayers pay.

Yep, I agree with Acala and phill4paul. The dogs dangerous or not were off the owners property and perceived as being an immediate threat. I don't see cops in general, especially in SF as wanting to shoot dogs for kicks or whatever. I do realize that there are cops who panic and loose it....regardless, the dogs were off leash....You do realize that you're destroying the cop hater mentality, with logic.

I mean,
This thread, like all the others that follow this mantra, are designed to invoke a fearful response and hatred of a particular group of people ... You could almost call it a prejudice against a group, and an invite to join.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTpZpwjtIE

[presence]

What would Jesus do?

[azxd]

What would Jesus do?Use a lightning bolt ;)