Ron needs to challenge Cain in the next debate...

[Paulistinian]

Inevitably there will be a Fed question and I suspect that article about Herman's book and his comments about the fed audit and Ron Paul's supporters being stupid for wanting an audit was just the seed planted by the media to pave the way for a stand off between Paul and Cain in the next debate. I believe Paul needs to challenge him on that statement. When Cain tries to dismiss the fed issue saying "I don't believe an audit is important" Paul needs to dismiss him from the race and say "I don't believe a man who doesnt think our nations monetary policy is important is fit to serve as President". Cain will be finished and this will be the "Reagan moment" the media has been waiting for.

What do you think?

Edit-
Here are relevant articles in case you haven't heard about how much we annoy Herman.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/27/cain-annoyed-by-‘stupid’-questions-from-ron-paul-supporters/
http://www.infowars.com/herman-cain-describes-ron-paul-supporters-concerns-as-stupid/

[Article V]

Normally I'm against ever attacking a candidate below you in popularity. But Cain is coming awful close to us in popularity, and he has thrown a stone squarely at the Ron Paul crowd.

Ron Paul needs to defend us. It will give him and us credibility. And it will halt the rise of Cain while pulling additional support to us.

[Lord Xar]

We have been wishing for these sorts of confrontations for years - it ain't gonna happen.
Unless Ron steps outside himself and does what needs to be done, but I am not holding my breath.

[jasonxe]

I say Rommey. He is the front runner and been so for so long. The media always concentrate on him so some headlines between them will give him exposure. Just got to make sure it is effective enough. .

[Paulistinian]

I have trolled a lot of Cain forums and Cain articles and his supporters don't like the Fed. They have a made up belief that he said he quit the Fed because it was corrupt, but he never said that. Cain supporters like him because he appears decisive, a Chief Executive. When the Fed question comes up Paul needs to decisively defend his supporters and defend the bill (Audit the Fed) he spent his life fighting for. This will cause a lot of Cain supporters to jump ship and show that Paul can be as strong as he is humble. He needs to single Cain out on the Fed issue and decisively announce to the Republican base that love strong leaders, that Herman Cain is not fit to serve the office of the President of the United States. He needs to do so without looking at Cain. Paul will turn it into a 2-man race with that move alone. The following debate will be all about Romney vs. Paul.

Please, someone pass this to the campaign. I truly believe Dr. Paul needs to do this.

[Steve-in-NY]

Dont worry, Paul wont have to do it. The media will.
That failing, Cains support will drop again.
Just be civil and watch.

[KingNothing]

Dont worry, Paul wont have to do it. The media will.
That failing, Cains support will drop again.
Just be civil and watch.

Absolutely. Paul didn't challenge Bachmann. She did herself in. Patience is a virtue.

[Article V]

It's not so much about Cain going down as it is about Ron Paul going up. Most Americans don't understand anything about the FED; so when Cain, a knowledgeable former FED chairman and Tea Partier, dismisses our FED concerns as 'stupid', it gives uninformed Americans another excuse to stay uninformed and write us off as "those crazy Ron Paul people."

Standing up for us against Cain would be a chance to educate Americans that we're not crazy, we're just more educated on a particular topic that should be of great concern to all Americans. It would be a way to validate us and get America thinking, "If they knew that about the FED and I didn't...what else do the Ron Paul supporters know that I've been ignorant about?" We'd start winning support away from not only Cain, but from all the other candidates and from the undecided pool.

[Paulistinian]

I don't usually agree with you, ArticleV but this time youre spot on.

[Duckman]

Another thing to consider is that alot of Cain's supporters like him because he supports the Fair Tax.

I think Ron needs to talk more about the Fair Tax, and why he doesn't support it. IIRC, the major argument Ron Paul had against the Fair Tax was his concern that it would lead to both a Federal income tax and a Federal sales tax levied simultaneously, allowing future Presidents and Congresses to jack both of them up.

In fact, Cain's 9-9-9 plan involves a 9% income tax and a 9% federal sales tax levied simultaneously, exactly the sort of situation Ron opposes. If I were Ron, I would stress this point (which was in fact brought up by the moderator at the last debate).

Also... come to think of it- why wouldn't we need a constitutional amendment to impose a Federal sales tax? We needed one for the Federal income tax. If a constitutional amendment is needed, then I think that should be brought up (basically means we'll need a constitutional amendment for the 9-9-9 plan, which IMO is unlikely). Or does nobody take the constitution seriously anymore? :eek:

[Romulus]

He needs call out Cain on:

1. ENDing the Fed (Cain no pretends he is for an audit)
2. NO National Sales tax on top off all the other taxes!
3. Ending the Income tax!

And he needs to say it:

Ron Paul: "I have a 3 point plan to save the economy" and list those 3 right there

[sailingaway]

I massively disagree. This would be 'punching down' regardless of the current emotional flurry. The man's youtubes will not permit him to be nominee, and his supporters will have to go somewhere. Ron should remain focused on those with actual potential.

[KingNothing]

I massively disagree. This would be 'punching down' regardless of the current emotional flurry. The man's youtubes will not permit him to be nominee, and his supporters will have to go somewhere. Ron should remain focused on those with actual potential.

I couldn't agree with you more. I tried to rep you for this, but apparently I've done that several times too often.

[The Goat]

the problem is that Cain has said that he now thinks the fed needs to be more "transparent". one of those words that is good enough for the people that don't really know what is going on. We know the issue will be swept under the rug at the earliest opportunity by anyone but Paul, but most believe what their told.

[Duckman]

IThe man's youtubes will not permit him to be nominee

When I first heard Herman Cain was running for President, the first thing that crossed my mind was the untold hours of tapes of the Herman Cain Show which could be used against him. IMO it's an unwise decision for a radio talk show host to run for political office, because there will just be too much material that can be used against you.

I will admit I'm rather suprised the media hasn't mentioned his talk radio show. Cain is always billed as the founder of Godfather's Pizza but nobody ever mentions his multiple years as a talk radio host afterwards.

[sailingaway]

I couldn't agree with you more. I tried to rep you for this, but apparently I've done that several times too often.

:D

Thanks for the thought!

[libertybrewcity]

to play in the big leagues we need to act like we belong in the big leagues..that means attacking Romney and Perry...the only two candidates that are ahead of Ron. The other candidates DO NOT exist.

[TonySutton]

Never never never attack down!

[Article V]

I don't usually agree with you, ArticleV but this time youre spot on.I'll take it! :)

UPDATE: And if it's any consolation, I often don't agree with me either. ;)

[wgadget]

I heard on the radio news today that Perry is bringing up the FED ISSUE again. Maybe he'll do the work for us.

Here's a story from today:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/rick-perry-hits-bernanke-and-fed-talks-immigration-and-border-security/

[Athan]

Cain's supposed "rise" is no threat to us. If he does somehow manage to pull himself from the gutter in the future and manage to stay afloat despite being in a massive financial hole, all he will do is syphon support from Romney or Perry's supporters. He is also lower tier. He would be taking valuable speaking time away from Ron Paul to criticize Romney or Perry.

Gary Johnson our strongest ally is a bigger threat than Cain. Just ignore the media reports as the media is a circus of drama queens.

Ron Paul supporters Ghouliani'ing Cain at his events like in 2008 is all he needs to be brought down. Ron himself needn't waste his time.

[Article V]

Never never never attack down!This is very true. But Cain is not really down any more; he's across or up depending on what polling we use.

And Ron doesn't need to be seen as attacking Cain as much as defending his Paul supporters and the validity of their concerns which Cain ignorantly or perhaps conveniently dismisses.
Cain's supposed "rise" is no threat to us.It's a threat only in that much of it could be lost potential Ron Paul support as the Cain supporters (and the supporters of other lower-tier candidates that Cain influences if not persuades) want the economy fixed by someone other than Romney or Perry.

For these people, Ron Paul would be a viable alternative to Romney and Perry if Cain wasn't helping perpetuate the myth that "those Ron Paul supporters are silly people with silly concerns."

[bpitas]

Another thing to consider is that alot of Cain's supporters like him because he supports the Fair Tax.

I think Ron needs to talk more about the Fair Tax, and why he doesn't support it. IIRC, the major argument Ron Paul had against the Fair Tax was his concern that it would lead to both a Federal income tax and a Federal sales tax levied simultaneously, allowing future Presidents and Congresses to jack both of them up.

AFAIK the FairTax doesn't talk at all about levying a National Income Tax in parallel with the National Sales Tax. It's a straight 23% national sales tax on purchases of "new" things, and ALL other taxes go away, plus a monthly "pre-bate". It saves something on the order of $23B (with a 'B') of "compliance costs", as the tax code becomes so simple that we don't need ANY of the current crop of tax lawyers and tax accountants, which is good because compliance-related jobs are non-productive. (they are pure administrative)

Fair Tax is probably the only thing that Cain talks about that I really like. Make sure you fully understand the FairTax before you try and attack it, or you might make things worse. From everything I've read, plus watching Huckabee presenting in front of the ways-n-means committee, the FairTax is actually a great idea. It would bring in a significant amount of "new" revenue by finally tapping into the "black" market, because guys like illegal immigrants and drug dealers with no provable income (who pay no taxes now) will actually have to pay taxes on their Escalades going forward.

[Carole]

Normally, I would say there will NEVER be a question in a debate that even remotely refers to the FED.

However, given that Cain worked for the FED, there is a slim possiblity that the subject could come up, but not from the media.

I hope it does. :)

[bpitas]

It already came up two debates ago. And they literally asked every single candidate about the Fed *except* Ron Paul.

[Simple]

“I get the same stupid question at almost every one of these events,” Cain writes. “I know it’s a deliberate strategy. How can a person randomly show up at a hundred events and ask the same stupid question to try to nail me on the Federal Reserve? It’s really becoming annoying more than anything else.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/27/cain-annoyed-by-%e2%80%98stupid%e2%80%99-questions-from-ron-paul-supporters/#ixzz1ZN0Ij1sd

Fear our spontaneous order! >=)

[Tarzan]

Also... come to think of it- why wouldn't we need a constitutional amendment to impose a Federal sales tax? We needed one for the Federal income tax. If a constitutional amendment is needed, then I think that should be brought up (basically means we'll need a constitutional amendment for the 9-9-9 plan, which IMO is unlikely). Or does nobody take the constitution seriously anymore? :eek:

There is no need for an amendment for a national sales (excise) tax. It is already covered in section 8. I am personally no fan of the so-called "fair tax". A system of pre-bates will eventually lead to the same mess in which we now find ourselves... the government manipulating the system and choosing the winners and losers. I prefer a national sales tax (not a VAT tax) the is not charged on essentials (food, clothing, housing, health, education). Everything else gets taxed.

Love the Duckman moniker... always make me smile.

Back to the OPs premise... I disagree. There is plenty of time for the media and Kane supporters to figure out this guy... and, he will implode as others have done. If need be we can get out the fact in a surreptitious manner, not linked to Ron Paul. But, that time has not come. We need to give it a couple of weeks and let the media do their damage (they will).

RP should state his position and the facts in any debate. If Kane challenges him... then beat him like a baby seal. Don't even mention Kane on any given issue or when responding... just Kane's ideas... like his 9.99 pizza special.

[Article V]

Fair Tax is probably the only thing that Cain talks about that I really like. Make sure you fully understand the FairTax before you try and attack it, or you might make things worse. From everything I've read, plus watching Huckabee presenting in front of the ways-n-means committee, the FairTax is actually a great idea. It would bring in a significant amount of "new" revenue by finally tapping into the "black" market, because guys like illegal immigrants and drug dealers with no provable income (who pay no taxes now) will actually have to pay taxes on their Escalades going forward.^This.

[RideTheDirt]

It already came up two debates ago. And they literally asked every single candidate about the Fed *except* Ron Paul.qft

[RonPaul101.com]

Never never never attack down!

I think any and all attacks should be focused on Romney for now on. In hindsight the campaign wasted resources attacking Perry, who doesn't have enough sense to survive anyway. Romney is the only other candidate with the staying power that Ron Paul has, any other (Cain, Bachmann, Santorum, Perry...) will ruin it for themselves.

The campaign's #1 focus is winning Iowa, and when Paul does win Iowa the Romney/Paul top two will emerge; its almost a certainty. So that means that winning Iowa is about as important to us as winning the country right now.

[Article V]

In hindsight the campaign wasted resources attacking Perry, who doesn't have enough sense to survive anyway. Are you serious? Paul's solo attack on Perry garnered Ron Paul's campaign media attention for weeks and laid the groundwork for the other candidates to take Perry down while Paul stayed above the fray.

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

I don't think it's necessary to attack Cain. The next televised debate isn't until Oct. 18th. I really think Cain will have made another mistake by then and people will remember why they wrote him off before.

[Deborah K]

Ron should challenge Cain's 9/9/9 gimmick with 0/0/0.