Why won't the goverment crack down on the Mexican cartels? [Archive]

AuH20

09-25-2011, 10:40 AM

Fuck him.

He wants a new fucking war. The reason nothing is done about it is because a lot of people are getting paid. More failing drug war bullshit.

Simply put the cartels need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice, then again we might anger some folks within the CIA and in Wall Street. It's an utter joke.

Dr.3D

09-25-2011, 10:43 AM

It would be so easy to put them out of business.

FrankRep

09-25-2011, 10:48 AM

It would be so easy to put them out of business.
The majority of the population doesn't want drugs legalized. Your "easy" assertion is false.

Dr.3D

09-25-2011, 10:53 AM

The majority of the population doesn't want drugs legalized. Your "easy" assertion is false.

Then the majority of the population is either uninformed or wants government invasion into their private life. Isn't that what the 'war on drugs' is all about? Isn't it more about giving the government an excuse to invade the privacy of the people than about getting rid of drugs?

Brian4Liberty

09-25-2011, 11:03 AM

Simply put the cartels need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice, then again we might anger some folks within the CIA and in Wall Street. It's an utter joke.

Yep, the illegal drug trade is intimately intertwined with the corporatists, military and corrupt governments. It serves multiple strategic purposes for them. They don't want it to end. And we can't forget that quite a number of the most violent cartel members were trained by the US government (School of the Americas).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperat ion

pcosmar

09-25-2011, 11:07 AM

The majority of the population doesn't want drugs legalized. Your "easy" assertion is false.
Bullshit.
Small but powerful minority does not. Most people do want an end to the drug war.

FrankRep

09-25-2011, 11:23 AM

Bullshit.
Small but powerful minority does not. Most people do want an end to the drug war.

Marijuana Legalization Fails in California (http://www.thenation.com/blog/155786/marijuana-legalization-fails-california)

California’s initiative to legalize marijuana failed to win a majority at the polls Tuesday. Prop 19, which received 3.3 million votes but lost 54 percent to 46 percent, would have would have legalized possession and cultivation of marijuana and authorized cities and counties to regulate and tax commercial marijuana production and sales.

Exit polls showed supporters were mostly young—under 25—while voters over 40 were mostly opposed.

Dr.3D

09-25-2011, 11:29 AM

Marijuana Legalization Fails in California (http://www.thenation.com/blog/155786/marijuana-legalization-fails-california)

California’s initiative to legalize marijuana failed to win a majority at the polls Tuesday. Prop 19, which received 3.3 million votes but lost 54 percent to 46 percent, would have would have legalized possession and cultivation of marijuana and authorized cities and counties to regulate and tax commercial marijuana production and sales.

Exit polls showed supporters were mostly young—under 25—while voters over 40 were mostly opposed.

I wonder how it would have turned out if regulation and taxation were left off of that ballot.

Nancy Reagan sure got hold of those older people though. Perhaps the DARE program worked better than I had though it did.

Brian4Liberty

09-25-2011, 11:29 AM

Marijuana Legalization Fails in California (http://www.thenation.com/blog/155786/marijuana-legalization-fails-california)

California’s initiative to legalize marijuana failed to win a majority at the polls Tuesday. Prop 19, which received 3.3 million votes but lost 54 percent to 46 percent, would have would have legalized possession and cultivation of marijuana and authorized cities and counties to regulate and tax commercial marijuana production and sales.

Exit polls showed supporters were mostly young—under 25—while voters over 40 were mostly opposed.

Bad example. By the time that Measure went to a vote, the groups that support marijuana legalization were against it. It was an insider, corporatist-style measure to benefit a single marijuana provider, with all kinds of strings and bureaucracy attached.

AFPVet

09-25-2011, 11:30 AM

Marijuana Legalization Fails in California (http://www.thenation.com/blog/155786/marijuana-legalization-fails-california)

California’s initiative to legalize marijuana failed to win a majority at the polls Tuesday. Prop 19, which received 3.3 million votes but lost 54 percent to 46 percent, would have would have legalized possession and cultivation of marijuana and authorized cities and counties to regulate and tax commercial marijuana production and sales.

Exit polls showed supporters were mostly young—under 25—while voters over 40 were mostly opposed.

I would've loved to see the results of a legitimate poll :)

sratiug

09-25-2011, 11:31 AM

The majority of the population doesn't want drugs legalized. Your "easy" assertion is false.

Umm, drugs are legal dude. No one in my lifetime has ever even suggested they should be illegal. Imagine all the operating rooms empty.

pcosmar

09-25-2011, 11:33 AM

while voters over 40 were mostly opposed.[/INDENT]

How many of those have a vested interest in the drug War. (Police,equipment manufacture,prison industry and Lawyers and dealers)

Not to mention that many were opposed to this particular law due to the TAXES part of it.
They were not opposed to legalization. They were opposed to Tax and regulation.

oyarde

09-26-2011, 10:08 AM

I think the BATF and CIA are involved enough at this point that they will not allow you to cancel any of the programs .

flightlesskiwi

09-26-2011, 10:37 AM

AuH20

09-26-2011, 10:43 AM

oyarde

09-26-2011, 10:43 AM

acptulsa

09-26-2011, 10:50 AM

I'm not too sure legalizing drugs would be an easy "fix". These cartels are so deeply entrenched that, although I do not advocate a full out frontal war, I think it will take use of force to stomp them out and make the point that they are not welcome here.

In other words, I don't believe the cartels will just crumble if the WOD ends. And I would expect them to seek revenue elsewhere primarily through violent activity to make up for any revenue lost.

History says you're exactly right. The end of Prohibition did not exactly kill all of the 'organizations' that got rich off of it. But it didn't do them any favors, either.

But I'd say we have an advantage now we didn't have then. Back then, since alchohol can be brewed anywhere, these 'organizations' were mostly based here. And while marijuana can be grown 'most anywhere, the farther south you go the better it does. So, I suspect that when these 'organizations' turn to prostitution and 'protection rackets', it might not be right in our own back yard.

flightlesskiwi

09-26-2011, 10:51 AM

Probably , but I prefer to make them go to something else .

Like kidnapping and extortion?? They are already masters at this.

I'm not advocating the WOD, it is abhorrent. But so are the cartels. And they won't just go away.

flightlesskiwi

09-26-2011, 10:57 AM

History says you're exactly right. The end of Prohibition did not exactly kill all of the 'organizations' that got rich off of it. But it didn't do them any favors, either.

But I'd say we have an advantage now we didn't have then. Back then, since alchohol can be brewed anywhere, these 'organizations' were mostly based here. And while marijuana can be grown 'most anywhere, the farther south you go the better it does. So, I suspect that when these 'organizations' turn to prostitution and 'protection rackets', it might not be right in our own back yard.

I agree with you. But I believe in order to encourage the cartels to do business elsewhere force will have to be used. Mexico as a sovereign nation does not have it together. Not saying that the US is far behind, but for now the .gov needs to be about the business of checking the chaos at the border.

oyarde

09-26-2011, 11:08 AM

Like kidnapping and extortion?? They are already masters at this.

I'm not advocating the WOD, it is abhorrent. But so are the cartels. And they won't just go away. I figured maybe they would get into piracy and then the navies would burn them .....

oyarde

09-26-2011, 11:10 AM

Like kidnapping and extortion?? They are already masters at this.

I'm not advocating the WOD, it is abhorrent. But so are the cartels. And they won't just go away. As far as I can tell , Mexico ,Columbia already operate heavily in kidnapping and extortion....

flightlesskiwi

09-26-2011, 11:15 AM

As far as I can tell , Mexico ,Columbia already operate heavily in kidnapping and extortion....

That is why I mentioned drug cartels already master those activities. I would only expect to see increases in such activities in order to save their power base.

oyarde

09-26-2011, 11:20 AM

That is why I mentioned drug cartels already master those activities. I would only expect to see increases in such activities in order to save their power base. Valid point . I doubt anyone expects all of them all to suddenly take up farming , but , I still want to see this drug crap stopped , we have more people in prison than anyone . I do not want to pay for people to be locked up for weed , they belong at work ...

acptulsa

09-26-2011, 11:24 AM

they belong at work ...

1. You've got to get them through the piss test first. 2. What work? There are jobs available out there? At least keeping them in prison helps keep the official unemployment numbers down.

flightlesskiwi

09-26-2011, 11:27 AM

Valid point . I doubt anyone expects all of them all to suddenly take up farming , but , I still want to see this drug crap stopped , we have more people in prison than anyone . I do not want to pay for people to be locked up for weed , they belong at work ...

Agree. But defending our borders, especially the southern one, ending the WOD and decriminalizing non violent drug offenses are 3 separate things.

But all three start with the .gov falling in line with its constitutional boundaries and staying there.

acptulsa

09-26-2011, 11:29 AM

Gives me an idea for a bumper sticker.

Decriminalize life. Vote Ron Paul.

oyarde

09-26-2011, 11:30 AM

1. You've got to get them through the piss test first. 2. What work? There are jobs available out there? At least keeping them in prison helps keep the official unemployment numbers down. Dang , you really know how to cheer a guy up :) Where I live , there are some jobs , probably not paying enough starting out to make a house payment and car payment , but enough to pay rent .

RDM

09-26-2011, 11:31 AM

Why do they not crack down on the Cartels? They are part of the Cartel.

http://www.lovethetruth.com/truth_about_illegal_drugs.htm

Seraphim

09-26-2011, 11:33 AM

The cartels will not be stopped because the US govt gains A LOT of power through the fear they propagate about the violence.

Uncle Sam will make the drug cartel violence worse and then tell Mom and Pops around the US of A that the DEA needs to be massively expanded and more heavily armed "to keep you safe from bad people".

oyarde

09-26-2011, 11:34 AM

Gives me an idea for a bumper sticker.

Decriminalize life. Vote Ron Paul. Nice

oyarde

09-26-2011, 11:40 AM

1. You've got to get them through the piss test first. 2. What work? There are jobs available out there? At least keeping them in prison helps keep the official unemployment numbers down. I was at my tire guy Fri . , getting a new tire on my car , they have three shops , one currently closed because they could not keep help . He was running the shop ( the largest of the three ) by himself , said the last two kids he hired , one lasted one day , the other worked twenty hours in two weeks , no piss test required . Wish I had remembered to take the flat off my wheel barrow and take it along :(

donnay

09-26-2011, 11:46 AM

I'm not too sure legalizing drugs would be an easy "fix". These cartels are so deeply entrenched that, although I do not advocate a full out frontal war, I think it will take use of force to stomp them out and make the point that they are not welcome here.

In other words, I don't believe the cartels will just crumble if the WOD ends. And I would expect them to seek revenue elsewhere primarily through violent activity to make up for any revenue lost.

Prohibition of alcohol made lots of people money, it also created a huge syndicate of crime families, like drug cartels today. If anyone takes a gander at the HBO series, "Boardwalk Empire" they would see prohibition made lots of people rich! Joseph Kennedy comes to mind... he was a bootlegger that went on to become the Ambassador to Great Britain, where it is said that the Kennedy family still make money on a bottle of good imported scotch. Those people who got rich also greased the wheels of law enforcement, judges, politicians, and mobsters. History, yet again, repeats itself...

Nevertheless, the CIA is the biggest drug cartel. In Afghanistan our troops are being used to guard the poppy fields. Read Gary Webb's book: "Dark Alliance," and read the book, "Compromise" about the CIA drug running that George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton partnered in Mena, Arkansas.

dannno

09-26-2011, 11:47 AM

The majority of the population doesn't want drugs legalized. Your "easy" assertion is false.

The majority of the population doesn't have the right to take away my rights.

Clearly anybody who is for the drug war needs to be educated on the subject.

-C-

09-26-2011, 11:50 AM

This general may be onto something.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=44647976�

The reason they won't is quite easy to understand. They simply can't. First of all even if they attempted it, it would require a full blown incursion into northern Mexico just to dent the cartels. There is no money to do this, and it wouldn't be effective unless you dealt with the money problem.

The money problem is that the "budget" and/or slushfund that is available to these cartels is greater than all of our drug agencies combined. You have to follow the money, find the wallstreet and london/offshore banks. Find the BANKERS that launder the money and perpetuate the policy of narco terrorism. The same money this sick, diseased, bankrupt financial system relies on to stay "solvent." Kill the money you kill the problem on the border with cartels.

Its simple, like in Afghanistan...how stupid is it to stand in Poppy fields and get shot at by guys financed by the field you're standing in, and then do absolutely nothing about the money, or the field itself. You just stand there, shooting at each other, like idiots.

acptulsa

09-26-2011, 11:52 AM

You just stand there, shooting at each other, like idiots.

Works--for the bullet makers.

dannno

09-26-2011, 11:52 AM

I'm not too sure legalizing drugs would be an easy "fix". These cartels are so deeply entrenched that, although I do not advocate a full out frontal war, I think it will take use of force to stomp them out and make the point that they are not welcome here.

In other words, I don't believe the cartels will just crumble if the WOD ends. And I would expect them to seek revenue elsewhere primarily through violent activity to make up for any revenue lost.

I don't know if I agree with this premise. That's like saying the oil cartels wouldn't give up power if suddenly a new type of cheap solar power was invented and distributed to everyone that provided all of our energy needs.

The reason the oil cartels exist, the reason they have power is because of insatiable need for energy.

The reason drug cartels exist, the reason they have power is because of people's insatiable desire to feel good.

I think you might not be considering the huge amount of money in drugs.. there IS NO alternative source of funding for the drug cartels that anywhere compares. If their business dries up, they will have to find another business. They aren't going to try and maintain control of their cartel empire when the business they were keeping track of is literally gone.

-C-

09-26-2011, 11:57 AM

Works--for the bullet makers.

Who probably do business at the same bank. :)

HOLLYWOOD

09-26-2011, 12:12 PM

Bad example. By the time that Measure went to a vote, the groups that support marijuana legalization were against it. It was an insider, corporatist-style measure to benefit a single marijuana provider, with all kinds of strings and bureaucracy attached.ABSOLUTELY... same thing in Nevada... Ton's of money through into the propaganda campaign against decriminalizing marijuana... Much coming from the special interest of Government agencies... Law Enforcement, Judicial System, Prison Industrial Complex, and anyone else related the government bankroll money machine. Even had it confirmed from a high power state capital attorney.

"To Justify Their Budgets, They Must Justify Their Existence"

Goes for just about any government department of "whatever"

LibertyEagle

09-26-2011, 12:20 PM

It would probably be helpful if our government didn't arm the cartels with military-grade weapons.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

acptulsa

09-26-2011, 12:25 PM

Much coming from the special interest of Government agencies... Law Enforcement, Judicial System, Prison Industrial Complex, and anyone else related the government bankroll money machine.

You forgot the source feeding that 'money machine'--Big Pharma, which still can't compete with God's own weed.

It would probably be helpful if our government didn't arm the cartels with military-grade weapons.

No freaking kidding. 'But if we don't arm both sides, someone else will!' Shoot yourself in the foot much, guys? Something tells me you don't want to win the war, because then you might get laid off...

silverhandorder

09-26-2011, 12:29 PM

Cartels got this strong because their source of revenue is in demand. Soon they will become the new government of Mexico. We can resist that and bring this war to our country or we can be smart and legalize drugs. This will allow our business men to make sure they can no longer tap the market in US. This way they can only really stay in Mexico.

Either way the damage has been done and we should prepare for humanitarian wave of refugees.

Pericles

09-26-2011, 12:30 PM

It would probably be helpful if our government didn't arm the cartels with military-grade weapons.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

It gets even worse

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/breaking-letter-implicates-atf-committing-straw-purchases-for-gunwalker

The US tax payer is funding the weapons for ATF to buy themselves and arm the cartels - the Sinaloa cartel, anyway.

acptulsa

09-26-2011, 12:34 PM

http://media.avclub.com/images/products/productgroup/189/HFP-DrugsWin_400x400_1_jpg_400x400_upscale_q85.jpg

Pericles

09-26-2011, 12:37 PM

War on Poverty = Loss
War on Crime = Loss
War on Drugs = Losing
War on Terror = Have we spotted a trend yet?

pcosmar

09-26-2011, 12:46 PM

dannno

09-26-2011, 12:57 PM

Why won't the goverment crack down on the Mexican cartels?

They are doing something. That is the problem.
Government involvement always makes things worse.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2011/06/us-special-ops-troops-deployed-mexico-leaked-briefing-confirms

Exactly.. what people, even here, are failing to realize is that cracking down on illegal drugs raises the prices, thus raising the profit margin encouraging and funding more illegal activity.

The higher the prices of drugs, the more the current standing cartels benefit. The more we fight the war, the richer the enemy becomes.

AFPVet

09-26-2011, 01:40 PM

Exactly.. what people, even here, are failing to realize is that cracking down on illegal drugs raises the prices, thus raising the profit margin encouraging and funding more illegal activity.

The higher the prices of drugs, the more the current standing cartels benefit. The more we fight the war, the richer the enemy becomes.

... and "they" get a cut from it all. Who is the biggest drug cartel? You guessed it... the corrupt people in Washington!

RDM

09-26-2011, 01:58 PM

Bush and Cheney also had strong ties to the drug cartels.

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ciadrugs/bush-cheney-drugs.html

Uncle Emanuel Watkins

09-26-2011, 03:31 PM

This general may be onto something.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=44647976?

After losing the evil Soviet regime as a great bad guy to fight against, our warmongering government of whoremongers had to redevelop the Middle East into that antagonist character. I suspect when the [ModEdit] no longer play that role out effectively, the Washingtonians will then have to shift their attention towards Latin America stirring up a lot of reasons to cause conflicts there, shoot off a lot of bullets, drop a lot of bombs, blow up a lot of missiles, and the usual nonsense.

Brian4Liberty

09-26-2011, 03:53 PM

Bush and Cheney also had strong ties to the drug cartels.

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ciadrugs/bush-cheney-drugs.html

Interesting article. Worth reading.

AuH20

09-26-2011, 04:00 PM

Too bad they killed Chip Tatum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAoibzBQtyU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C0EqQTX44s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxaFGsdGxnc

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

09-27-2011, 08:26 AM

After losing the evil Soviet regime as a great bad guy to fight against, our warmongering government of whoremongers had to redevelop the Middle East into that antagonist character. I suspect when the [ModEdit] no longer play that role out effectively, the Washingtonians will then have to shift their attention towards Latin America stirring up a lot of reasons to cause conflicts there,

I dunno, man. It looks like the crosshairs are already trained on the american public. You can work in the prison industry or you can be a prisoner. I guess it depends on personality type, but I notice a lot of prison industry workers are securing their jobs as we speak.

donnay

09-27-2011, 09:04 AM

It would probably be helpful if our government didn't arm the cartels with military-grade weapons.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

Insider: CIA Orchestrated Operation Fast and Furious

(...)

“The CIA made sure the trade wasn’t one-way. It persuaded the ATF to create Operation Fast and Furious – a “no strings attached” variation of the agency’s previous firearms sting. By design, the ATF operation armed the Mexican government’s preferred cartel on the street level near the American border, where the Zetas are most active,” states the report.

The notion that Fast and Furious was used as a cover through which to arm the the Sinaloa cartel would explain why the feds showed little interest in following up where guns ended up once they left the United States.

The Obama administration and the ATF claim that the Fast and Furious program was part of a sting operation to catch leading Mexican drug runners, and yet it’s admitted that the government stopped tracking the firearms as soon as they reached the border, defeating the entire object of the mission.

http://www.infowars.com/insider-cia-orchestrated-operation-fast-and-furious/

ClayTrainor

09-27-2011, 09:12 AM

Exactly.. what people, even here, are failing to realize is that cracking down on illegal drugs raises the prices, thus raising the profit margin encouraging and funding more illegal activity.

Exactly. That's just basic laws of supply and demand. Reduce the supply, and you raise the price. For people who can supply without getting busted, the profits become massive.

The government makes it illegal to produce supply without their permission, and legally assumes the power to kill or kidnap anyone who attempts to do so. Thus, political power becomes the greatest asset for suppliers. With political connections, you have the ability to remove your competition by force under the guise of fighting the war on drugs. Without political connections, you run an increased risk of being killed or kidnapped for trying to compete.

You can bet your ass that some of this money has worked its way into politics, to protect black market profits.

Like Hillary Clinton once said...

"We can't legalize drugs, because there's just too much money in it."

A Freudian slip, if there ever was one.

RDM

09-27-2011, 11:22 AM

Interesting article. Worth reading.

It really explains the reason "the establishment" politicians only want the "pre-selected" President in office. The corruption is so inner woven within, that for someone like Ron Paul to step into office and put a stop to all of this, would bring down many "well known" figure heads. The collateral damage would be humongous and devastating for the American people to find out all about this. That's why they are so hell bent on keeping Ron Paul out.

Pericles

09-27-2011, 12:06 PM

Insider: CIA Orchestrated Operation Fast and Furious

(...)

“The CIA made sure the trade wasn’t one-way. It persuaded the ATF to create Operation Fast and Furious – a “no strings attached” variation of the agency’s previous firearms sting. By design, the ATF operation armed the Mexican government’s preferred cartel on the street level near the American border, where the Zetas are most active,” states the report.

The notion that Fast and Furious was used as a cover through which to arm the the Sinaloa cartel would explain why the feds showed little interest in following up where guns ended up once they left the United States.

The Obama administration and the ATF claim that the Fast and Furious program was part of a sting operation to catch leading Mexican drug runners, and yet it’s admitted that the government stopped tracking the firearms as soon as they reached the border, defeating the entire object of the mission.

http://www.infowars.com/insider-cia-orchestrated-operation-fast-and-furious/

Talk about missing by a mile...

The CIA could get weapons from almost anywhere, and real military hardware, not the crap we get to buy a US gun shows. There is only one reason to have US civilian market firearms show up in the hands of cartels - to justify restricting the US public to have access to any kind of weapons.

MRK

09-27-2011, 02:23 PM

That is why I mentioned drug cartels already master those activities. I would only expect to see increases in such activities in order to save their power base.

Sure, take out the demand for the cartels' goods and they will still have a large supply of people and means to commit violence. But the same would be true for law enforcement, who would also be able to shift their resources to protecting people. As the cartels wane after the end of prohibition, so would the need for massive enforcement funding.

Pericles

09-27-2011, 03:10 PM

Sure, take out the demand for the cartels' goods and they will still have a large supply of people and means to commit violence. But the same would be true for law enforcement, who would also be able to shift their resources to protecting people. As the cartels wane after the end of prohibition, so would the need for massive enforcement funding.

The issue is that the cartels are on the verge of being the "de facto" government in the territory of Mexico, and already, people are being killed for failing to pay "taxes" to the cartels. It would seem to be more difficult to remove the cartels from power once they get it.

acptulsa

09-27-2011, 03:38 PM

If you get a chance, watch the old film Key Largo, with Bogart, Bacall and Edward G. Robinson. It addresses pretty thoroughly how Prohibition created the mobs, and how they then bought massive influence with the politicians.

Damned good movie, too.