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View Full Version : Fox News: Gary Johnson less 'grouchy' than Ron Paul




fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 06:27 AM
It was just on, I think the analyst said the word 'grouchy' ..not entirely sure though.

But they said he earned himself another debate because he brings a new libertarian voice to the stage. :rolleyes:

Bern
09-23-2011, 06:33 AM
Sounds like Ron Paul is the more serious candidate then.

fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 06:35 AM
did anyone hear the segment?

William R
09-23-2011, 06:37 AM
Ron Paul is running third nationally. FAUX wants to dilute Ron Paul's message.

tremendoustie
09-23-2011, 06:38 AM
I hope Gary's in more debates. It strengthens the message.

whippoorwill
09-23-2011, 06:43 AM
I hope Gary's in more debates. It strengthens the message.
aye.

freeforall
09-23-2011, 06:46 AM
He may end up helping Ron Paul. He didn't hesitate to choose Paul for VP.

fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 06:47 AM
Ron Paul is running third nationally. FAUX wants to dilute Ron Paul's message.

Expect to see a rise in Cain as more people defect from Perry. Paul might get a little bounce too but he also might lose some on the other end if Johnson and Huntsman start picking up.

Huntsman already surged to 10% in NH in the last poll. We can expect Romney to cool down sharply in NH as well and start sending votes out to Huntsman. I just hope that Johnson doesn't stunt Paul's growth.

LawnWake
09-23-2011, 06:48 AM
He may end up helping Ron Paul. He didn't hesitate to choose Paul for VP.

Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.

fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 06:55 AM
He may end up helping Ron Paul. He didn't hesitate to choose Paul for VP.

Paul needs to control the narrative. And it's kinda hard to do that, when, you get asked trivial questions on abortion and how a border fence may 'keep us in' sometime in the future

Nastynate
09-23-2011, 06:55 AM
Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.

I was also, I was really hoping he would of atleast shouted out to Gov Johnson. Would of said along the lines he is the most in line with me so I he would be the best candidate for my VP.

fisharmor
09-23-2011, 07:15 AM
I was also, I was really hoping he would of atleast shouted out to Gov Johnson. Would of said along the lines he is the most in line with me so I he would be the best candidate for my VP.

Well, he certainly could have thanked him... but I'm not upset at him not tagging back.
The answer is obvious, if you're limiting to who was on stage. He chose to spend his last airtime telling the nation he's polling third and when he gets the nomination he'd choose. The hardcores know who he'd choose, or at least what the short list is, and he spent his time (what little they gave him) very wisely pointing out that he's a bigger deal than the debate organizers want to acknowledge - that he actually may be making that decision, as opposed to just playing their games.

fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 07:21 AM
I was also, I was really hoping he would of atleast shouted out to Gov Johnson. Would of said along the lines he is the most in line with me so I he would be the best candidate for my VP.

Johnson's motives are still unknown. So let's not fault Paul for being honest and neutral in his answer.

BamaAla
09-23-2011, 07:23 AM
did anyone hear the segment?

Yeah, I saw it. He was a former aide or adviser to Chuck Schumer (or some other prominent north eastern liberal.) He said that the winners were Romney and Johnson because their "main peer did poorly and that is Perry and Ron Paul." He then said that Johnson would "be polling at 5% nationally now" and he earned himself another debate. He said that Johnson is Ron Paul only "less grouchy."

At the end of the segment they all agreed that Huntsman could end up winning the nomination, and the fellow that made the grouchy comment said that Huntsman scared him because he is the most electable Republican candidate.

I've had Fox on all morning as background while I'm doing some work around the house. Thus far, I've heard praise for Perry, Romney, Huntsman, Santorum, Cain, and Gingrich. The only mention of Paul and Bachmann was a murmur about them being tied for third in the most recent Fox News poll.

UtahApocalypse
09-23-2011, 07:44 AM
Ron Paul is running third nationally. FAUX wants to dilute Ron Paul's message.

Knew this was why he was invited all along. Yes the true die hard Ron Paul supporters are not going anywhere.... but the 1-3% of "On the fence" voters we have been gaining in polls could easily fall for this type of stuff.

speciallyblend
09-23-2011, 07:46 AM
Paul/Johnson 2012 Bring Our Troops Home , fox is grasping at straws!! it is almost laughable fox is a joke.

speciallyblend
09-23-2011, 07:48 AM
Knew this was why he was invited all along. Yes the true die hard Ron Paul supporters are not going anywhere.... but the 1-3% of "On the fence" voters we have been gaining in polls could easily fall for this type of stuff.

it doesn't matter why they invited him. He is not part of foxs plan . Gary is for ron paul so give it a rest geez. it will only blowback on fox and the gop in ron pauls favor. move on to your next conspiracy!!

Orwell
09-23-2011, 07:49 AM
I think it'll be a net positive. It lends credibility to the message and to Paul. No longer is he crazy ol' uncle Ron up there going off on a rant no one understands or cares about, there's other candidates making the points he has been for a very long time.

Fredom101
09-23-2011, 08:21 AM
If the MSM like Johnson better, obviously Paul is the better candidate from a principles point of view.

freeforall
09-23-2011, 08:25 AM
Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.

I think he had to choose to return the favor or use the time to point out polling success. He made the right choice. He is better of taking his time to properly build an alliance with Johnson.

DeadheadForPaul
09-23-2011, 08:25 AM
Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.

The Faux viewers see Gary Johnson as "other" due to some of his comments.

Ron finally made it in the top tier and has been slightly accepted by the GOP rank-and-file. Why would he compromise that now by endorsing a competitor polling at 1% who is viewed in a questionable light?

jason43
09-23-2011, 08:27 AM
He may end up helping Ron Paul. He didn't hesitate to choose Paul for VP.

He also had a chance right at the beginning to trash Paul and chose not to. They threw the softball up and he chose not to swing.

Maestro232
09-23-2011, 08:33 AM
Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.

Actually, with all due respect, I thought this was his best answer. Letting the American people hear that he is in third nationally and expects to move into 2nd, all along side Perry's crash and burn on the stage...I'm thinking he got a good jab in against the "unelectable" meme.

BSU kid
09-23-2011, 08:33 AM
I like Johnson, but we need to be wary. I think he is a ploy to steal Ron Paul's votes.

libertybrewcity
09-23-2011, 08:36 AM
Ron Paul is more knowledgeable on probably every issue than Gary Johnson. Ron Paul has lived and breathed fed, economic, and foreign policy for decades.

/thread

fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 08:36 AM
I like Johnson, but we need to be wary. I think he is a ploy to steal Ron Paul's votes.

Yes, his motives are unkown and should be considered suspect.

fearthereaperx
09-23-2011, 08:37 AM
Ron Paul is more knowledgeable on probably every issue than Gary Johnson. Ron Paul has lived and breathed fed, economic, and foreign policy for decades.

/thread

Yeah, Johnson is more of a micro economics guy, but he is completely stale on the bigger issues.

William R
09-23-2011, 08:43 AM
The only reason FAUX added Gary Johnson is so they could give less time to Ron Paul.

klamath
09-23-2011, 08:45 AM
Oh wow GJ didn't attack RP, let's all vote for him now! Nothing backfired on fox. It accomplished exactly what they wanted, give GJ a boost at the expense of RP.

BSU kid
09-23-2011, 09:05 AM
According to Google Trends, "Gary Johnson" is the #1 most searched phrase in America right now.

http://www.google.com/trends

Looks like Fox succeeded in stealing Ron's thunder.

Bruno
09-23-2011, 09:09 AM
Funny, the same network was saying how they really admired the "fire in the belly, the passion" from Perry after the first debate.



Hell, why would anyone be grouchy over $2 Trillion spent on multiple wars going on for 10 years now?

Why get all grouchy and bent out of shape over the destruction of the dollar?

Why would any person who has been shouting from the rooftops for 20 years about theses issues be grouchy about the complete dismissal of our Constitution?

LibertyEagle
09-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Ron Paul is running third nationally. FAUX wants to dilute Ron Paul's message.

DING, DING, DING.

We have a winner!!

Defining Obscene
09-23-2011, 10:03 AM
i see no problem with having gary on the stage. at the end of the day he will throw his support behind ron paul, and if he didnt, he would totally sell out his own voters who know that all the things gary stand's for are not what anyone else on that stage stands for. let him be "less grouchy", grab some moderates, and pile them onto the revolution. works for me.

klamath
09-23-2011, 10:24 AM
The block of non RP voters that GJ might attract sure as hell aren't going to be for RP just because GJ endorses RP. They have a serious problems with RP such as being prolife, religious or no executive experiance and that isn't going to go away just because GJ endorses him. GJ doesn't have a huge admiring base that will throw away their own misgiving of RP because they trust and admire GJ so much. The other block of voters GJ will attract are the left Libertarians that support RP because they have no other choice. They hadn't at this point deserted RP because they felt GJ was dead in the water * in the polls. Give GJ a little momentum and they WILL bolt.

banks11
09-24-2011, 02:50 AM
Letting the American people hear that he is in third nationally and expects to move into 2nd
I hadn't even noticed how good that part was being frustrated that Ron didn't thank Gary, thanks for the insight.

Original_Intent
09-24-2011, 04:39 AM
If Paul had "returned the favor" it would have jsut looked like a libertarian circle jerk.

Also notice that everyone that answered the question is pretty irrelevant. Rom Paul not only got his top tire comment in, he acted like top tier by deferring on that particular question.

GJ has grown on me and I would have no problem giving him due consideration in 2016. And GJ was a complete clas act in the debate in my opinion. But to the degree that RP supporters, who are the hardest of the hardcore, I think this just shows how effective the ploy was to bring GJ into the debates. I mean they bent the rules to bring him in that were the same rules that kept Paul out in 07.

PaulConventionWV
09-24-2011, 06:01 AM
Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.

You have to realize he can't please everyone. If he did that, many people on here would be saying it was a bad idea. I think it was a good thing that he not put it in people's heads that he's actually choosing a running mate right now.

Working Poor
09-24-2011, 06:04 AM
Paul's gotta return the favor a little more, though, if he wants to keep that support. I was disappointed with his lack of support when he was asked who he'd pick.


From my understanding it is considered inappropriate to choose before the primary and guarantees a loss.

NeoconTea
09-24-2011, 08:01 AM
Goddamn it, people. Stop being so paranoid about Johnson. He's another voice in debates and he serves to strengthen Ron Paul. It's clear that he wants Paul to succeed and they probably have their own little plan... It seems likely that he's going to withdraw at some point and support Paul, preferably after the debates are over. Then Paul/Johnson 2012!

klamath
09-24-2011, 08:28 AM
I am so tired of hearing that GJ said good things of RP therefore we shouldn't say anything bad about him. Palin has said good things about RP yet she get's called every ridiculing name out there. Bachmann is RP's friend and yet she get's ripped, leered over in the most dirty disrespecting way, savaged and spit upon.
But all of a sudden it is "don't say anything bad about GJ because we don't want to burn bridges to his .2% of voters yet it is no problem burning bridges to the 20 to 40 percent of the voters looking at the other candidates. Typical Libertarian way of winning an election.

NIU Students for Liberty
09-24-2011, 08:40 AM
I am so tired of hearing that GJ said good things of RP therefore we shouldn't say anything bad about him. Palin has said good things about RP yet she get's called every ridiculing name out there. Bachmann is RP's friend and yet she get's ripped, leered over in the most dirty disrespecting way, savaged and spit upon.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Bachman and Palin are frauds and opportunists?

NeoconTea
09-24-2011, 08:46 AM
What are you going to say when Bachmann endorses Ron Paul?

KingNothing
09-24-2011, 08:52 AM
What are you going to say when Bachmann endorses Ron Paul?

I don't think she will, but it would certainly be welcomed!

NeoconTea
09-24-2011, 08:53 AM
She basically said that she'd pick Paul for her VP in the last debate.

KingNothing
09-24-2011, 08:57 AM
I am so tired of hearing that GJ said good things of RP therefore we shouldn't say anything bad about him. Palin has said good things about RP yet she get's called every ridiculing name out there. Bachmann is RP's friend and yet she get's ripped, leered over in the most dirty disrespecting way, savaged and spit upon.
But all of a sudden it is "don't say anything bad about GJ because we don't want to burn bridges to his .2% of voters yet it is no problem burning bridges to the 20 to 40 percent of the voters looking at the other candidates. Typical Libertarian way of winning an election.

Nah, what's typical of Libertarians is ridiculous and unnecessary in-fighting. I support each candidate. Why is that so bad? They're both as close to ideal as we're ever likely to see. Johnson did some absolutely wonderful things as governor, and we shouldn't overlook what he accomplished. He used intelligence and force of personality to bring about principled change. Because of that, his praise comes off as authentic and note-worthy. Palin, on the other hand, accomplished very little and seemed willing to forget principle and reason in order to attain some higher standing with the media. The two are not equals, and because of that, their words do not carry the some weight.

KingNothing
09-24-2011, 08:58 AM
She basically said that she'd pick Paul for her VP in the last debate.

I completely agree. But I don't think she'll do it. When push comes to shove, she'll do what is politically expedient.

klamath
09-24-2011, 09:22 AM
Nah, what's typical of Libertarians is ridiculous and unnecessary in-fighting. I support each candidate. Why is that so bad? They're both as close to ideal as we're ever likely to see. Johnson did some absolutely wonderful things as governor, and we shouldn't overlook what he accomplished. He used intelligence and force of personality to bring about principled change. Because of that, his praise comes off as authentic and note-worthy. Palin, on the other hand, accomplished very little and seemed willing to forget principle and reason in order to attain some higher standing with the media. The two are not equals, and because of that, their words do not carry the some weight.
In your opinion GJ is authentic. Sorry but I see nothing spectacular done in NM. Now if I said I support all four candidates would that be bad?
Edit. How is it that GJ used to state on his web site that he would take the US to war defending israel now he just has some generic bland non intervention statement on his site. Bachmann has been savaged for her support of Israel on here but Johnson get's a pass for a flat out interventionist statement?

klamath
09-24-2011, 09:24 AM
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Bachman and Palin are frauds and opportunists?
Again in your opinion.

banks11
09-24-2011, 09:48 AM
I would just like to remind some to make a difference from those who wanted Ron to return the favor, and those who only wanted Ron to thank (or acknowledge) Gary.
As for the rest I have no political affiliation but labeling libertarians and infighters only spreads that conception, however appropriate you think it is.No useful.

Athan
09-24-2011, 09:56 AM
Paul needs to control the narrative. And it's kinda hard to do that, when, you get asked trivial questions on abortion and how a border fence may 'keep us in' sometime in the future

You sir hit the nail on the head and broke the board. The campaign managers need to pick up on this idea and counter this issue in EACH debate. Just change the direction of the answer or quickly answer the question in a non-controversial manner (so they don't use it to interrupt him) if needed then do a switch to a completely huge issue.

Danke
09-24-2011, 10:15 AM
I have never thought of Paul as "grouchy." Just the opposite.

Agorism
09-24-2011, 11:17 AM
Kick Gary and Santorum out.

FreedomIsPopularRPF
09-24-2011, 03:14 PM
"Kook" is the official FOX News, even mainstream media designated term to use when speaking the name of Ron Paul.

trey4sports
09-24-2011, 03:15 PM
"Kook" is the official FOX News, even mainstream media designated term to use when speaking the name of Ron Paul.

welcome aboard!

gerryb
09-24-2011, 03:37 PM
According to Google Trends, "Gary Johnson" is the #1 most searched phrase in America right now.

http://www.google.com/trends

Looks like Fox succeeded in stealing Ron's thunder.

It's all the Ron Paul folks going and checking Gary out... it won't change any RP supporters to change votes.

NIU Students for Liberty
09-24-2011, 04:34 PM
In your opinion GJ is authentic. Sorry but I see nothing spectacular done in NM. Now if I said I support all four candidates would that be bad?
Edit. How is it that GJ used to state on his web site that he would take the US to war defending israel now he just has some generic bland non intervention statement on his site. Bachmann has been savaged for her support of Israel on here but Johnson get's a pass for a flat out interventionist statement?

I'd say his opposition to Iraq (before it was politically popular) and Afghanistan outweigh his stance on Israel. Bachman and Palin were Bush cheerleaders turned libertarian-lite over night.

NIU Students for Liberty
09-24-2011, 04:35 PM
*who turned libertarian-lite

klamath
09-24-2011, 04:54 PM
I'd say his opposition to Iraq (before it was politically popular) and Afghanistan outweigh his stance on Israel. Bachman and Palin were Bush cheerleaders turned libertarian-lite over night.
And I would say Johnson support of abortion that kills 1 million americans a year outweights his oposition to the Iraq war from the beginning and a completely unbalanced support of Isreal is what keeps us involved with the middle east. As long as we continued to onesidedly support Isreal we will continue to have terrorist attacks and therefore continue to be involved in the middle east.

Jo Jo
09-24-2011, 05:08 PM
Hope so. Otherwise he dilutes the Libertarian vote

NIU Students for Liberty
09-24-2011, 09:37 PM
And I would say Johnson support of abortion that kills 1 million americans a year outweights his oposition to the Iraq war from the beginning and a completely unbalanced support of Isreal is what keeps us involved with the middle east. As long as we continued to onesidedly support Isreal we will continue to have terrorist attacks and therefore continue to be involved in the middle east.

If you believe that life begins at conception...

Abortion is a moot point between Paul and Johnson anyways since they both believe that it should be handled at the state level.

And by the way, I'm not saying that I agree with Johnson's position on Israel. However, Palin and Bachman have the same views towards Israel (if not more hawkish) so why should they get a pass while you want to point the finger at Johnson when he is the only one outside of Paul that advocates for personal liberty?

klamath
09-24-2011, 10:42 PM
If you believe that life begins at conception...

Abortion is a moot point between Paul and Johnson anyways since they both believe that it should be handled at the state level.

And by the way, I'm not saying that I agree with Johnson's position on Israel. However, Palin and Bachman have the same views towards Israel (if not more hawkish) so why should they get a pass while you want to point the finger at Johnson when he is the only one outside of Paul that advocates for personal liberty?
That's just the point, Palin and bachmann DON"T get a pass but GJ is getting a pass. I would say attack the positions they take and give praise where they are right. you however blanketly called them frauds and this is just the attitude that shows the double standard. "Oh don't point out the positions where GJ is against RP, that might burn bridges too GJ's .5% of the vote!:rolleyes:

NIU Students for Liberty
09-24-2011, 11:49 PM
That's just the point, Palin and bachmann DON"T get a pass but GJ is getting a pass. I would say attack the positions they take and give praise where they are right. you however blanketly called them frauds and this is just the attitude that shows the double standard. "Oh don't point out the positions where GJ is against RP, that might burn bridges too GJ's .5% of the vote!:rolleyes:

Johnson is getting a pass because when you compare him to all of the other candidates (or just about any politician for that matter), he is the only one that comes closest to matching Paul. How are Bachman and Palin not frauds? Was Bachman not an IRS attorney? Did Palin not run with McCain? Did Bachman not endorse Bush's stimulus? Can Palin even articulate a position without being coached? I can go on and on.

NIU Students for Liberty
09-24-2011, 11:54 PM
And for the record, I am not saying that Johnson should not be criticized for his "humanitarian" missions that involve military force. However, that position is moot when the other candidates advocate for an even more aggressive foreign policy. At least Johnson respects personal freedoms and has a more libertarian economic platform/record.

anaconda
09-24-2011, 11:57 PM
I hope Gary's in more debates. It strengthens the message.

I was saying this many moons ago.

klamath
09-25-2011, 09:48 AM
You can go on and on from your .5% of the vote viewpoint. When I compare him I do not come up with the closest to RP. Did GJ not suck up state contracts for his construction company? Did GJ not cheat on the woman that stood side by side with him building his business? Did GJ not not post statements on his website saying RP had racist baggage? Did GJ not not bother to do any real campaigning for RP but then show up at the RTR ralley and talk about how great GJ was? Did GJ not goof around climbing mtns, parasailing and smoking pot while RP worked alone building a small but significant coalition and then jump in to try and hijack that coalition? Give GJ a little momentum and let the real vetting start and it will be quite easy to hand pick statements and actions of GJ's to make him appear like a real fraud. If GJ wasn't in it for himself he would have run for NM senate and campaigned to make sure RP won NM.
I guess RP endorsed a fraud. I guess Bachmann's voting record which was one of the closet to RP's was a fraud.
When you want to trash someone just because you want to trash someone it is quite easy and you burn a lot of bridges.

NIU Students for Liberty
09-25-2011, 12:37 PM
You can go on and on from your .5% of the vote viewpoint. When I compare him I do not come up with the closest to RP. Did GJ not suck up state contracts for his construction company? Did GJ not cheat on the woman that stood side by side with him building his business? Did GJ not not post statements on his website saying RP had racist baggage? Did GJ not not bother to do any real campaigning for RP but then show up at the RTR ralley and talk about how great GJ was? Did GJ not goof around climbing mtns, parasailing and smoking pot while RP worked alone building a small but significant coalition and then jump in to try and hijack that coalition? Give GJ a little momentum and let the real vetting start and it will be quite easy to hand pick statements and actions of GJ's to make him appear like a real fraud. If GJ wasn't in it for himself he would have run for NM senate and campaigned to make sure RP won NM.

I guess RP endorsed a fraud. I guess Bachmann's voting record which was one of the closet to RP's was a fraud.
When you want to trash someone just because you want to trash someone it is quite easy and you burn a lot of bridges.

Johnson never endorsed the racism attacks since it was a blogger who posted them on his Facebook page (they were taken down soon after). As far as Johnson's personal life is concerned, I could care less as long as he does not attempt to force his social views on anyone (hmm, can't say the same about your pal Bachman). I could not find information regarding the state contracts his company was supposedly involved in so could you post a ink?

And how can you bash him for campaign activity when Bachman was completely absent from Paul's circle during the '08 election? Regardless of his intentions (which you have no proof of), he was at the Rally for the Republic and endorsed Paul. Although he probably used Ron Paul's rise to fame within the past few years in order to gain national exposure, at least Johnson has been mostly genuine with his views towards the economy, foreign policy, and civil liberties since he was governor. All of the other candidates have flip-flopped substantially since they realized Paul was gaining recognition for his predictions.

Obviously I would like to see Bachman's supporters switch to Paul when she inevitably bows out of the race but I'm not going to pretend that her flaws overwhelmingly outweigh her pros and suck up to her. I'm not naive to think that Johnson's miniscule support will amount to a significant bump in Paul's standings but I was simply stating why Paul's supporters (including myself) may prefer him over anyone else in this race.