Stoked about Gary Johnson!

[ronpaulforchange]

I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that Gary Johnson is participating in the presidential debate tonight! I absolutely loved it when Ron Paul and Gary Johnson both answered questions last time. They are an absolutely amazing team.

Ron Paul mostly uses deontological libertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarianism) arguments about personal liberty and individual rights. They are solid arguments and tend to resonate with crowds just by putting into perspective what infringement of liberty is. For example, he made those comments about the 1st amendment and spoke about consistently applying liberty in other contexts like drug use. He holds his own even when others disagree with him. In fact, Ron Paul seems to gain more fans the more he disagrees with the other Republicans.

Gary Johnson, on the other hand, uses more consequentialist libertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist_libertarianism) arguments and they are solid. He rattles a plethora of statistics and percentages about crime rates and costs off of the top of his head. Ron Paul makes the cake and Gary Johnson put the icing on it.

When your questions are limited to 30 seconds and you are the only libertarian on stage, you have to suppress a lot of philosophic ammo. Gary Johnson is not a substitute for Ron Paul. He is an exemplary complement.

[Napolitanic Wars]

They are an absolutely amazing team.


He is an exemplary complement.

Umm, I'd like to believe you, but Johnson has done nothing to indicate he's on Ron's team. He has neo-conned a lot of his positions and has tried to split the vote from Paul supporters.

If Johnson does in fact help Ron, on stage or in the campaign, I would be the first to donate to him..............for his run for Senate.

[ItsTime]

Lets see if Johnson is the real deal and helps Ron on stage or if he is a self promoting jackass.

[Billay]

Umm, I'd like to believe you, but Johnson has done nothing to indicate he's on Ron's team. He has neo-conned a lot of his positions and has tried to split the vote from Paul supporters.

If Johnson does in fact help Ron, on stage or in the campaign, I would be the first to donate to him..............for his run for Senate.

Word? Like going to the Paul convention a few years ago and praising Ron?

[BuddyRey]

I have a tendency to agree with the OP. Gary's presence in the debate is a net positive for Ron, even though it's probably unintentional on his part. Having double the libertarian representation there was great during that first debate, especially as you said, since one candidate argues liberty so well from a Natural Rights perspective and the other appeals to the pragmatic streak in Republicans by explaining why controversial tactics like decriminalizing drugs are also good for their pocketbooks.

[speciallyblend]

I have a tendency to agree with the OP. Gary's presence in the debate is a net positive for Ron, even though it's probably unintentional on his part. Having double the libertarian representation there was great during that first debate, especially as you said, since one candidate argues liberty so well from a Natural Rights perspective and the other appeals to the pragmatic streak in Republicans by explaining why controversial tactics like decriminalizing drugs are also good for their pocketbooks.

Paul/Johnson 2012 Bring Our Troops Home

[phesoge]

I hope both of them make the case for non-interventionism. It definitely sets us apart, and with the establishment borrowing all of Paul's position every day we need a something like that.

[spudea]

Johnson's inclusion is for the sole purpose of hurting Ron Paul. TPTB hope to associate Ron Paul with an unpopular, unknown, un-republican, unelectable candidate.

I think Gary Johnson is a good guy, but I don't think he helps Ron Paul because of the control the media has to manipulate the viewers. And for this reason, I want Gary Johnson out of the debates and out of the race.

[Brown Sapper]

If Johnson gains traction we gain traction the more we pull to the right the less chance they would go back to the neocons. If Johnson drops out they will be ours.

[ronpaulforchange]

I created this thread before the debate began. The debate is over, so here are a couple facts about tonight's debate: Gary Johnson said he would pick Ron Paul as his running mate for the "game" question at the end of tonight's debate. In the beginning, Gary explicitly rejected the question of why he would be a better candidate than Ron.

I do not think trashing Gary Johnson, a huge fan of Ron Paul, is at all cool; it is just acting politically cut throat and nasty like many Washington D.C. jerks do.

[FlatIron]

Paul/Johnson 2012 Bring Our Troops Home Johnson is not a supporter of a neutral policy

[Brown Sapper]

I do not think trashing Gary Johnson, a huge fan of Ron Paul, is at all cool.

I hope I didn't come off as bashing, but there can only be one. Johnson is definately my number two pick. Hopefully they're the last two standing.

[LirvA]

I created this thread before the debate began. The debate is over, so here are a couple facts about tonight's debate: Gary Johnson said he would pick Ron Paul as his running mate for the "game" question at the end of tonight's debate. In the beginning, Gary explicitly rejected the question of why he would be a better candidate than Ron.

I do not think trashing Gary Johnson, a huge fan of Ron Paul, is at all cool; it is just acting politically cut throat and nasty like many Washington D.C. jerks do.


Agreed. Gary Johnson is a friend to liberty, and can only help Ron Paul.

[LirvA]

Check out this vid Gary Johnson uploaded tonight



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0J04iO2JGw

[TRIGRHAPPY]

Gary Johnson did well tonight, and he made Ron Paul look VERY good. I do sort of wish Ron Paul would have taken the "who on the stage would be ur vp" question and made the most of it.... Something along the lines of "Well, besides myself there is only one individual on the stage that actually supports small, constitutional government, and that's Gary Johnson. While I do believe the others make great politicians, the country needs leaders willing to defend the constitution."

[banks11]

I want Gary Johnson out of the debates and out of the race.

That doesn't go well with the principle of Liberty dude, I hope with reflection you just didn't phrase yourself correctly.

PRINCIPLE is why WE support Ron, and sadly I have to say Dr Paul disappointed me quite a bit tonight on the VP question.
I know candidates have to be tactful, there where ways of picking Gary without hindering the campaign but Ron could AT LEAST have said THANK YOU.
It would have even been more principled to say what Ron said, that it would not be correct of him to pick at this moment but add that polite thank you and PRINCIPLED acknowledgment that Gary is on the side of Liberty.

Maybe he will contact Gary privately but that still leaves supporters not understanding.I am really having a problem with this and would appreciate your insight, info, or other...

[kill the banks]

Check out this vid Gary Johnson uploaded tonight



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0J04iO2JGw

v interesting thx

[CaptainAmerica]

My opinion is that Gary Johnson...mr 0.02 percent is there to dilute the time Ron Paul gets.

[Wren]

Check out this vid Gary Johnson uploaded tonight



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0J04iO2JGw

I wasn't going to watch it, but my curiosity got the best of me and I ended up liking it despite being firmly against Johnson's presence in this election. This video showed him as a gentleman to go so far as to include Ron Paul in your own ad. He was gentlemanly in the debate as well, I respected that. The end goal is liberty for some but in the end we must unite behind one man, that's what it comes down to. I appreciate his humility, but if Johnson stays in until the NH primary, I and many others are not going to be happy.

[brenton]

Check out this vid Gary Johnson uploaded tonight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0J04iO2JGw
+rep
gary johnson is awesome.

[speciallyblend]

Check out this vid Gary Johnson uploaded tonight



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0J04iO2JGw

awesome, fbed as Paul/Johnson 2012 Legalize Freedom

[Bruno]

Check out this vid Gary Johnson uploaded tonight



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0J04iO2JGw

+ rep to both you and Gary

[libertarian4321]

I still have no idea what Johnson is trying to accomplish.

It should be obvious to anyone that he has ZERO chance of being nominated.

What little support he does have is probably coming 90+% from people who would otherwise support Ron Paul.

If he just shows up for a couple more debates, then quits, fine. But I hope he isn't going to drag this thing out until the primaries.

[banks11]

I'm glad to see people acknowledged Gary's qualities, we should not be scared by the truth.
I hope also, but our skill at predicting the future isn't all that great and anyway besides a lap in morality on Gary's part attacking a Liberty supporter is not the way to go.
So speculation, theory ok, but lets not hate to much :).

[Elfshadow]

Is he running to be Pauls VP??

[LirvA]

I still have no idea what Johnson is trying to accomplish.

It should be obvious to anyone that he has ZERO chance of being nominated.

What little support he does have is probably coming 90+% from people who would otherwise support Ron Paul.

If he just shows up for a couple more debates, then quits, fine. But I hope he isn't going to drag this thing out until the primaries.


I believe he's quite focused on the New Hampshire primary, so I think we'll see him until then.

[BamaAla]

I thought that video LirvA posted was fantastic. I like Gary being there!

I posted this back in February and I'll post it again. At CPAC, I happened to catch Gary when he was all alone at his table and talked with him for probably 15 minutes before he was off to do an interview. When we weren't talking about outdoorsmanship, I posed the question "are you definitely running?" To which he replied "Well, yes, for a while anyway." I didn't ask him to expand on that answer, but I took it as his intent to run and get his name out there and drop out before Iowa.

We might not want to admit it, but this is Ron's last hurrah. I hope it bears out 8 years of a Ron Paul presidency, but the movement can't end there or, Heaven forbid, with Ron losing and riding off into the sunset. Gary is poised to take the torch in life after Ron (year 1 AR.) This is a good opportunity for him to get some name recognition and potentially build a base going forward.

[Mordan]

I still have no idea what Johnson is trying to accomplish.

It should be obvious to anyone that he has ZERO chance of being nominated.

What little support he does have is probably coming 90+% from people who would otherwise support Ron Paul.

If he just shows up for a couple more debates, then quits, fine. But I hope he isn't going to drag this thing out until the primaries.

back in 2008, the same argument was put forward to remove Ron Paul from the debates.

don't let the force corrupt you

[cucucachu0000]

I think its wonderful that we have a successful two time governor who agrees with paul and as an example of a libertarian executive. It gives more credibility to Ron, especially when he was clearly kissing the rings of Ron on national TV. It made him seem much more reaganesque. I am glad to have him in the race if he can bring more people to the cause of liberty that ron can't get I'm all for it.

[William R]

Gary Johnson was added to the debate just as Ron Paul is moving passed Bachmann into third place nationally. FAUX wants dilute Ron Paul's message. And it worked. Even though he is polling third nationally Paul got less time to speak than all the candidates except Gary Johnson.

[HardyMacia]

NH is only one primary and the first.

Johnson has said he's staying in to the NH primary. If Johnson does well in the NH primary and then drops out and endorses Paul again then Johnson having some stature when he drops out will help Paul much more than everyone still saying "Johnson Who?" and Johnson endorsing Paul.

From a strategical point of view it would be in RP supporters best interest to support Johnson in just a tiny bit so he can carry out his NH Plan and get to 5-10% in NH. I won't come from RP supporters who are hard core in their choices already, but mostly from Romney supporters (social moderate business owner types).

[TER]

The more people on the stage defending liberty, the Constitution, and an end to the wars, the better.

[limequat]

Gary Johnson was added to the debate just as Ron Paul is moving passed Bachmann into third place nationally. FAUX wants dilute Ron Paul's message. And it worked. Even though he is polling third nationally Paul got less time to speak than all the candidates except Gary Johnson.

So a there was a pro-liberty candidate talking twice as often as there would be if Johnson wasn't there? Sounds like a win to me.

[freeforall]

My gut tells me that Johnson is fully aware of why He was included last night and doesn't intend to give them what they are looking for. He knows he is a long shot and the media will turn on him when they need to. He may end up endorsing Paul without officially endorsing. I'm sure he would be thrilled to be considered for VP.

[The Free Hornet]

I still have no idea what Johnson is trying to accomplish.

It should be obvious to anyone that he has ZERO chance of being nominated.

What little support he does have is probably coming 90+% from people who would otherwise support Ron Paul.

If he just shows up for a couple more debates, then quits, fine. But I hope he isn't going to drag this thing out until the primaries.

Consider GJ the vice libertarian. A backup or Plan B. There is only one Ron Paul but we all have a duty to defend liberty. Johnson has accomplished more than I ever will. Kudos to Gary!

[playboymommy]

That doesn't go well with the principle of Liberty dude, I hope with reflection you just didn't phrase yourself correctly.

PRINCIPLE is why WE support Ron, and sadly I have to say Dr Paul disappointed me quite a bit tonight on the VP question.
I know candidates have to be tactful, there where ways of picking Gary without hindering the campaign but Ron could AT LEAST have said THANK YOU.
It would have even been more principled to say what Ron said, that it would not be correct of him to pick at this moment but add that polite thank you and PRINCIPLED acknowledgment that Gary is on the side of Liberty.

Maybe he will contact Gary privately but that still leaves supporters not understanding.I am really having a problem with this and would appreciate your insight, info, or other...

Well said. My fiance who is not entirely sold on RP said something along the lines of Dr. Paul being rude about the VP question and that's not typical of him (paul).

[ChiefJustice]

So much for the "its about the message not the messenger", because apparently only Ron Paul can be the messenger. We should be thrilled that there is another liberty candidate up there having his voice heard on national TV (regardless of whether Fox is actually trying to dilute RP's vote). In many ways I find Gary Johnson just as suitable a candidate as Ron. And I also had a small problem with Ron's answer to the VP question. Is it a tough decision? They asked if you had to pick someone on stage for a running mate who would it be and quite frankly I was very disappointed that Ron did not simply say "Gary Johnson". They are fighting the same fight with basically the same message....I thought it was a missed opportunity to return the favor for Gary's answer.

[dannno]

Well said. My fiance who is not entirely sold on RP said something along the lines of Dr. Paul being rude about the VP question and that's not typical of him (paul).

He can't choose GJ because he is trying to court people who are pro-life (GJ is pro-choice), and he can't choose any of the rest because they suck.

It would just be used against him.

[ChiefJustice]

He can't choose GJ because he is trying to court people who are pro-life (GJ is pro-choice), and he can't choose any of the rest because they suck.

It would just be used against him.
Running mates don't need to fall lock in step with each other on every single issue.

[ronpaulitician]

1. Ron Paul
2. Gary Johnson
3. Obama
4. the other GOP candidates

For every dollar I give to Paul, I give ten cents to Johnson.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

1. Ron Paul
2. Gary Johnson
3. Obama
4. the other GOP candidates

For every dollar I give to Paul, I give ten cents to Johnson.

Obama should be 100th

[playboymommy]

He can't choose GJ because he is trying to court people who are pro-life (GJ is pro-choice), and he can't choose any of the rest because they suck.

It would just be used against him.

iirc the question was who would you choose and why? Gary said Ron Paul because they are the only two fighting for limited constitutional government and state rights. Ron should have said Gary for the same reason. It just seemed put offish that we finally hear two liberty voices on stage, granted different opinions on a few issues but for Ron to in a way dismiss Gary as someone who doesn't resonate the liberty message just left a bad taste in my mouth, as well as many others, and I think it hurts him more than choosing Gary would have.

EDIT: please don't take my tone as rude, I'm not trying to be! :p (prolly what Ron Paul would say in his defense, lol)

[speciallyblend]

Well said. My fiance who is not entirely sold on RP said something along the lines of Dr. Paul being rude about the VP question and that's not typical of him (paul).

i would have to agree with you. I expected more from ron paul on that answer. I am a ron paul addict but i have to give ron paul an f on that answer!!

[LBennett76]

i would have to agree with you. I expected more from ron paul on that answer. I am a ron paul addict but i have to give ron paul an f on that answer!!

I saw it as Dr. Paul realizing it was the last he was going to get to speak. And being pissed off that he's in third and having had to go through "debate training" that he doesn't like to get basically ignored all night... I saw him as wanting to point out that he is indeed in third to the people in the few seconds he had left to do so.

[speciallyblend]

I saw it as Dr. Paul realizing it was the last he was going to get to speak. And being pissed off that he's in third and having had to go through "debate training" that he doesn't like to get basically ignored all night... I saw him as wanting to point out that he is indeed in third to the people in the few seconds he had left to do so.

i understand for sure ,but i was still dissapointed about the answer, now back to liberty:) Paul/Johnson 2012 Legalize Freedom

it might be time to protest all the msm and block the main hq until they admit to lying and deceiving americans!

[klamath]

If RP would have turned around and said GJ it would have been a yuck get a hotel room you guys. There is more to chosing a VP than that. I am severely disappointed in GJ for running against RP and turning down a sure senate seat.

[Icymudpuppy]

The more people on the stage defending liberty, the Constitution, and an end to the wars, the better.

I heartily agree sir!

[kuckfeynes]

What are you guys talking about, that was by far the most presidential answer he could give.
Saying Johnson would have been playing right into Fox's hands.
Ron approached the question as if he will actually soon be making it.
The ease with which Gary said Ron, to me, indicates that he sees it more as remaining a hypothetical.

[moreliberty]

havn't studied Johnson much. I liked him, seemed a little nervous. Surprised to see so many people think he shouldn't run. Paul supporters are as strong as they get, can't really see him trying to "dilute" Dr. Paul chances. People are ready for change, maybe not the majority, and maybe they don't quite understand the true meaning of liberty, and what the consitution could do for this country. But having more people put the words "Liberty" and "Constitution" into our political language is always good. Asking that question in a debate is a little out of line at this point, the moderators know what kind of trouble candidates could get in. And there is a reason they don't pick one until after the primaries.

[trey4sports]

Johnson is damn good.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

If RP would have turned around and said GJ it would have been a yuck get a hotel room you guys. There is more to chosing a VP that. I am severely disappointed in GJ for running against RP and turning down a sure senate seat.

GJ is "running against Ron Paul"? Aside from the fact that GJ has been officially in the race since April, long before RP had even begun to make up his mind about running, (and GJ had been running in all but name, through his Our America PAC, for two years before that), there's also the fact that GJ never attacks RP, and goes beyond that, praising RP every chance he gets. In what way is GJ "running against Ron Paul"? We libertarians/constitutionalists are really spoiled, having two amazing candidates with amazing resumes running for President. So spoiled, in fact, that we're starting to act like spoiled brats.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I'm feeling better about GJ after the last debate. He's welcome to a few more. It feels sad to think that he seems rudderless after this Presidential campaign. I really hope he's involved in running for another office, or approaching the Presidency again in 2016. If Ron doesn't make it this time, Johnson/Rand Paul or Rand Paul/Johnson would be an incredible ticket.

[banks11]

Interesting stuff, ceresasmom don't let (if you can) that stop your fiance from supporting Ron, I would talk in terms of supporting Liberty / the message which helps deal with the fact that you rarely like every character trait in one person and that much more comes into play as many here have said.
My main point was only the lake of a "thank you", besides that and only that Ron's answer was great.He pointed out the fact he is third and is going to be 2nd and he didn't play the "game" on basis of principle.


Obama should be 100th
Yes yes yes, I'm not sure how you can put Obama before others, I don't like them either but as anti Liberty / evil as they are at least some have a small Liberty idea they promote.I don't know if they understand it, it might be random and my be a lie but Bachmann seems to understand parental rights and the unconstitutionality of so many executive orders (like those Romney, Perry, ... would / have install /ed) and Cain seems to understand at least somewhat the qualities of a true free market.There may be more examples or these maybe false, but you get my point.

[johnrocks]

I like Johnson a lot;would have no problem voting for him if RP wasn't running; glad he was in the debate.