PDA

View Full Version : Separation of Church and State




mlee45
09-19-2011, 10:42 PM
I recently was getting attacked from an Obama supporter about the separation of church and state and Ron Paul's views...how would you guys handle this...

DeadheadForPaul
09-19-2011, 11:00 PM
First, I would establish that Ron Paul and the rest of us in the liberty movement view people as individuals rather than as groups. We do not see Christians, Muslims, atheists, etc.

As a result, we respect each and every individual's right to live and let live. To think, believe, and act as he or she pleases as long as it does not infringe on the life, liberty, or property of another.

Ron Paul wants states to decide to allow gay marriage - this is an improvement over the other Republicans' positions and even Obama's position. His position on the drug war is better than Obama's. He does not wish to impose his personal views on others.

Second, ask them for proof of Ron Paul ever introducing a bill which would tear down the wall of separation

one male human
09-19-2011, 11:04 PM
It should be; Seperation of Church from State.

Sola_Fide
09-19-2011, 11:10 PM
Tell them the truth. Obama supporters need the truth too.


The founding generation of Protestants who generated the ideas of this fledgling republic had just escaped a generation before from the tyranny of the Roman Catholic Church-State. They wanted a clear separation between these two institutions because they knew when the two institutions comingled, tyranny resulted.


This didn't however mean that law was not to be based on God's Word or the public square was never to mention the Creator. If this was the case, then the early states would not have required religious tests for office. They also wouldn't have set up established state churches. But they did both of these things.

The early state constitutions were set up, not surprisingly, to keep Catholics and non-Christians out of office in most cases. Sorry, that is just the history of our Protestant country, right or wrong...


In addition, many states required tests to keep non-Christians or in some cases Catholics out of public office:

-The New Jersey Constitution of 1776 restricted public office to all but Protestants by its religious test/oath.
-The Delaware Constitution of 1776 demanded an acceptance of the Trinity by its religious test/oath.
-The Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776 had a similar test/oath.
-The Maryland Constitution of 1776 had such a test/oath.
-The North Carolina Constitution of 1776 had a test/oath that restricted all but Protestants from public office.
-The Georgia Constitution of 1777 used an oath/test to screen out all but Protestants.
-The Vermont state charter/constitution of 1777 echoed the Pennsylvania Constitution regarding a test/oath.
-The South Carolina Constitution of 1778 had such a test/oath allowing only Protestants to hold office.
-The Massachusetts Constitution of 1780 and New Hampshire Constitution of 1784 restricted such office holders to Protestants.
-Only Virginia and New York did not have such religious tests/oaths during this time period.


Examples of the early religious tests for office:



Massachusetts' Declaration of Rights: Article III:
"...to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily."


Part 1 Article III:"...every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law: and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law."




North Carolina Constitution:

"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God...."




Pennsylvania a Declaration of Rights: Article 1, Section 4:
"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."



South Carolina's Constitution, Article 4 Section 2:
"Person denying existence of Supreme Being not to hold office. No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."




Tennessee's Bill of Rights: Article 9: Section 4:
"That no political or religious test, other than an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of this state, shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this state."

Section 2. "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."


Tell them the truth.

suoulfrepus
09-19-2011, 11:22 PM
Ron discussed this issue in his interview with the Concord Monitor. Ron, for some reason, differentiates between theocracy and "separation of church and state". Ron is against theocracy, but he seems to think that "separation of church and state" is more comprehensive and would entail banning things like school prayer. I don't if I described his position accurately, so you should go watch his interview.

BuddyRey
09-19-2011, 11:40 PM
How about separation of society and state?

one male human
09-19-2011, 11:43 PM
How about separation of society and state?

You may want to rethink that.