Promoting at Punk/Hardcore shows

[ronnilingus]

Hi everyone! I live in Connecticut, a predominantly democratic state, and I was thinking about places to try and spread Ron Paul's message and I thought why not reach out to the punk/hardcore scene. I go to a decent amount of shows and I know many people would be into our message if I could get through to them. Kids are always outside at these shows handing out flyers and promotions for bands, venues, and upcoming shows so I want to do the same but with some business cards for Ron Paul.

Anyway, my main concern is that a lot of the people I talk to will want to know argue politics with me, and while I'm pretty knowledgeable about his foreign policy and economic views, I don't know very much about Ron Paul's stance on abortion and gay marriage. It is my understanding that he wants these to be state issues and not federal ones, since the constitution doesn't provide the federal government the authority to rule on these issues. Is that right?

How do I get the right point across without making Ron Paul look the wrong way on these issues? Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[ronnilingus]

Sorry, I just realized that I should have posted this to Marketing Strategy, Influence & Persuasion. Can someone move it for me? Thanks.

[jmhudak17]

I'm in Connecticut too and I agree. If we frame it right people at these shows might be sympathetic to Ron Paul.

[ronnilingus]

Yea I'm planning on going to the Space in Hamden this Saturday to see Hostage Calm and Heavy Breath. I just wanna be on my feet when it comes to discussions with people.

[Sola_Fide]

How is the scene in CT?

Man, I wish Ron was running back when I was going to shows. I grew up in Louisville KY in the mid 90's and the indie scene was thriving. We were at shows just about every weekend for a couple of years. The Louisville music scene produced some of the most influential and overlooked indie bands in recent history.

[The New Fury]

Glad to see some people into the same things! My experience with punks/hardcore kids and Ron Paul is that you will find both a higher than average percentage of people that are totally perceptive of his viewpoints than you would find in the total population (clearly a lot of liberty-minded folk that got kicks off Atlas Shrugged, plus anti-war crowds), and a higher than average percentage of people that are totally repulsed by his viewpoints than what you would find in the total population (clearly a lot of ultra-progressives that got kicks off The Communist Manifesto). You'll naturally find a lot of passionate people with strong beliefs that may or may not align with that of Ron Paul's stances. That said, I had been at punk shows during the 2008 election cycle where the singer had dedicated a set to Ron Paul or something, and people always cheered in that sort of situation. Probably has pretty good name recognition among this crowd.

To see an example of issues that are raised, try searching Google for "Ron Paul theb9.com." You may know that the b9 is a high traffic message board ran by a prominent hardcore/punk record company (Bridge Nine).

There are a ton of early hardcore bands that were conservative leaning/ republican (can't really put my finger on one though). It would be cool to see an article about an old punk legend endorsing Ron Paul. It would certainly make the rounds on various high-traffic alternative music news sites.

[jmhudak17]

Yea I'm planning on going to the Space in Hamden this Saturday to see Hostage Calm and Heavy Breath. I just wanna be on my feet when it comes to discussions with people.

Small world. My band has played there before multiple times.

[ronnilingus]

To see an example of issues that are raised, try searching Google for "Ron Paul theb9.com." You may know that the b9 is a high traffic message board ran by a prominent hardcore/punk record company (Bridge Nine).



I know bridge 9 well but I've never noticed any Ron Paul threads. After searching, I'm kind of in shock over how negative they are about him. They're worse than the MSM. "he's crazy, he's racist, a neocon, etc etc" For the most part though, I didn't see too many intelligent comments about Ron Paul on those forums. At least I have a better idea of what I'm up against now.

[ronnilingus]

and btw, Verse is awesome. Aggression is one of my favorite albums ever. They're a band that I'd expect to be down with Ron Paul. I think someone once told me they had some of the same books from the Ron Paul reading list in their liner notes.

[dannno]

lol @ your username.

Ron Paul has literally said, "Gay people can do whatever they want" when asked about gay marriage. He doesn't think the govt. should be involved and believes that if someone wants to marry a gay couple in a private church or something then they can do whatever they want.

He doesn't want the government in people's lives or in their bedroom.

Abortion is a little more difficult, but there are plenty of pro-choice Ron Paul supporters. He is for states rights and is against a federal abortion police.

[LawnWake]

There's lots of anarcho-syndicalism in hc. Some of my favorite bands are good examples of that (Capitalist Casualties anyone?) so you'll have trouble reaching a good audience there. I think you'd have way more luck at metal shows. Metal bands often tend to be very libertarian and pretty much everyone at the Metal Archives forum is libertarian.

A fried of a friend of mine got beat up for being libertarian by punk kids. Because he believes in national sovereignty. It's totally an extreme and not the norm at all, I'm just saying, communist sentiments run very deep in the punk scene.

As for his beliefs on social issues. Keep the federal government out is his main position. Be it abortion, gay marriage or what have you. He's anti-abortion PERSONALLY but he doesn't want to impose his views through legislation. As far as marriage is concerned, he doesn't believe that it's a government issue but a personal one.


How is the scene in CT?

Man, I wish Ron was running back when I was going to shows. I grew up in Louisville KY in the mid 90's and the indie scene was thriving. We were at shows just about every weekend for a couple of years. The Louisville music scene produced some of the most influential and overlooked indie bands in recent history.

Talking about Slint, The For Carnation, Gastr del Sol, A Minor Forest, Rodan, etc? Not trying to sway the thread too much, but late '80s/early '90s KY bands are some of my favorite so it's cool there's someone here who's actually experienced that.

[fisharmor]

Where did American know how go
Why do Japanese build better stereos
Is it 'cos our best minds can't get a job
Except when they help make toys for the Pentagon

Germ warfare, more bombs
Germ warfare, more bombs
Our whole economy's based on fear and death
How long can we get away with this?

And we live here

Yeah... there might be some overlap....

Gay marriage is easy... why do hetero married couples get rewarded for getting married?
Take away the reward for getting married, and then there's no reason for the state to define "marriage".
If the state doesn't define it, then everyone's free to do whatever they want.

Abortion: well, don't assume that someone is automatically for or against it.
It's a tougher issue to sell someone on, though. Ultimately the 10th Amendment approach might work: Connecticut will never outlaw it on their own.
You could always go with the argument that Roe is proof that the people who are in charge of "interpreting" the Constitution have never fucking read it. "Blatant abuse of power" is a phrase that comes to mind.

Why limit it to those issues, though?
Hit them with schools: most of them probably turned to punk because they were smart enough to realize that the prison system they just got out of (or are still in) is what it is. It's not on his regular talking points list, but "eliminate the dept of Ed" translates to "strike a blow to the child prison system".

Hit them with drugs. Lots of them have done them and know that 90% of what they were told is abject bullshit. Vote for the candidate that will end the war on drugs.

[amisspelledword]

How is the scene in CT?

Man, I wish Ron was running back when I was going to shows. I grew up in Louisville KY in the mid 90's and the indie scene was thriving. We were at shows just about every weekend for a couple of years. The Louisville music scene produced some of the most influential and overlooked indie bands in recent history.

this was after the 90s but how about By the Grace of God / Black Cross? good stuff.

i think this is potentially fertile ground for recruiting. good idea.

[Sola_Fide]

Talking about Slint, The For Carnation, Gastr del Sol, A Minor Forest, Rodan, etc? Not trying to sway the thread too much, but late '80s/early '90s KY bands are some of my favorite so it's cool there's someone here who's actually experienced that.

Hard to believe these bands are being talked about on these boards:). But yeah, I grew up in Louisville in the early 90's going to shows. Back then there was Crain, Slint, Rodan, Ennui, June of 44, Telephone Man, Endpoint, Split Lip, Chamberlain, Falling Forward, Elliott, Guilt, Kinghorse, too many to mention.

Some genre defining bands came out of Louisville in that decade. Slint's Spiderland and Rodan's Rusty were two underground masterpieces that are today just becoming realized for how groundbreaking they actually were. The songs 'Breadcrumb Trail' off Spiderland and 'Everyday World Of Bodies' off of Rusty are two songs that capture that pensive early 90's Louisville sound...

Also, during that time the DC hardcore scene was really picking up and DC bands would always play in Louisville. Hoover, Lincoln, Fugazi, Roosevelt's Inagural Parade, etc. were always playing here.

Beside the more angular, time-changey stuff of Slint and Rodan, you had two albums that possibly launched what has become the dreaded 'emo' genre into the limelight.

Falling Forward's album Hand Me Down and then Chamberlain's album Fate's Got a Driver were two emo-core classics that get overlooked today, but even when you listen to them today, they sound current...they were way ahead of their time for mid 90's music.

Also, anything Elliott did was great. False Cathedrals is a groundbreaking album that a lot of bands still talk about influencing them today.

[Sola_Fide]

this was after the 90s but how about By the Grace of God / Black Cross? good stuff.

i think this is potentially fertile ground for recruiting. good idea.

Yeah, By The Grace Of God and Black Widows are Rob Pennington bands. They were later into the 00's. Rob Pennington sang for Endpoint originally, which was a great Louisville punk/hardcore band. I remember Endpoint's last show at Brewery Thunderdome...great times!

Also Duncan Barlow was the guitarist for Endpoint and he went on to form Guilt, which was another great Louisville hardcore band.

Amaroq was a short-lived band that Rob Pennington sang in as well...I saw Amaroq play in my friend's basement when I was about 16 or so. They were great.

[LawnWake]

Hard to believe these bands are being talked about on these boards:). But yeah, I grew up in Louisville in the early 90's going to shows. Back then there was Crain, Slint, Rodan, Ennui, June of 44, Telephone Man, Endpoint, Split Lip, Chamberlain, Falling Forward, Elliott, Guilt, Kinghorse, too many to mention.

Some genre defining bands came out of Louisville in that decade. Slint's Spiderland and Rodan's Rusty were two underground masterpieces that are today just becoming realized for how groundbreaking they actually were. The songs 'Breadcrumb Trail' off Spiderland and 'Everyday World Of Bodies' off of Rusty are two songs that capture that pensive early 90's Louisville sound...

Also, during that time the DC hardcore scene was really picking up and DC bands would always play in Louisville. Hoover, Lincoln, Fugazi, Roosevelt's Inagural Parade, etc. were always playing here.

Beside the more angular, time-changey stuff of Slint and Rodan, you had two albums that possibly launched what has become the dreaded 'emo' genre into the limelight.

Falling Forward's album Hand Me Down and then Chamberlain's album Fate's Got a Driver were two emo-core classics that get overlooked today, but even when you listen to them today, they sound current...they were way ahead of their time for mid 90's music.

Also, anything Elliott did was great. False Cathedrals is a groundbreaking album that a lot of bands still talk about influencing them today.

Oh wow, this is great. I've been making the early emo/mathrock connection for ages, that stuff is mad similar. The sparse melodies, intricate drumming, vocal style, cryptic lyrics, etc. I got a lot of people into bands like Native Nod by comparing them to Slint.

Seeing Slint live is one of my musical highlights. It was so amazing. 'Spiderland' is one of two records that I own both on vinyl and CD.

I'm almost 23 now, been into this stuff since I was like 16. One of the best 'sounds' in rock music history.

[ronnilingus]

Abortion: well, don't assume that someone is automatically for or against it.
It's a tougher issue to sell someone on, though. Ultimately the 10th Amendment approach might work: Connecticut will never outlaw it on their own.
You could always go with the argument that Roe is proof that the people who are in charge of "interpreting" the Constitution have never fucking read it. "Blatant abuse of power" is a phrase that comes to mind.

Why limit it to those issues, though?


Thanks to all for your help. But on the abortion issue, didn't Ron Paul vote on a federal ban of all partial birth abortions?

I am going to try and make my main points on foreign policy, civil liberties, and the economy. These are the biggest things that I feel Obama has come up short on and I think they will be the best topics to reach out to independents and democrats in order to get them to register republican this year.

[ItsTime]

Ive found that Ron Paul is popular in the hardcore scene at least here in New Hampshire and Maine. Simply freedom is popular.

[wide awake]

I have had to address the abortion issue as well. Most of my friends (as am I) are pro-choice and in the very short time that I have discussed Ron Paul with them, this is usually one of their fallback issues as to why they can't support him. I usually resort to one of the following:
1. Is this one of the top 3 issues facing the country? (for my friends and relations, it's usually a no)
2. This debate is not going to be settled by one elected official as it has been going on forever and the nation is still split (sometimes it works, but sometimes they will bring up supreme court appointees)
3. I refer to his answer during the SC forum a few weeks ago when he countered the position that the constitution already prohibits abortion and make the point that personal stances or noble causes are not above the constitution (character argument - he is going to ride roughshod over the law just because of a personal belief)
4. He is pro-life, anti-death penalty, anti-war. You may not agree with the abortion issue but unlike any other politician he is consistent in his belief in the dignity of life across the board

Now they are not going to work with everyone, but it is one issue where I feel I have responses at the ready for those that view it as "second-tier" issue.

[Sola_Fide]

Hey LawnAwake,


Download this album: http://www.mediafire.com/?w4unihzomnj
Split Lip - For The Love Of The Wounded


I've been jamming on this lately. This was mid 90's Louisville emo-core. This album has been looked back upon as genre-defining.

[seyferjm]

Metal shows are a great place to "recruit" people. I'm located in Cincinnati and used to go to a lot of local shows.

[LawnWake]

Hey LawnAwake,


Download this album: http://www.mediafire.com/?w4unihzomnj
Split Lip - For The Love Of The Wounded


I've been jamming on this lately. This was mid 90's Louisville emo-core. This album has been looked back upon as genre-defining.

Oh wow thanks :0 I actually already know Split Lip but I don't have their stuff anymore so this is great!

[milo10]

Some of it has to do with what you believe.

"I am 100% for abortion, but I am still for Ron Paul as it is not a primary issue right now and his personal take on abortion is fairly meaningless, since he wants this to be decided upon by the states. Ron Paul is the only candidate that will get us out of the wars, end the Patriot Act, and fight against the corporate and banking interests in Washington."

(If they argue that he is corporatist, etc) "No, don't confuse him with the scumbags at the CATO institute. Ron Paul doesn't work for the Koch brothers. If he did, Fox News would love him. Most Ron Paul supporters consider Fox News, with a couple of exceptions, to be the biggest liars in the media. Ron refuses to even go on Bill O'Reilly's show. This is why there is a groundswell of support for him. This is why you see his signs and bumper stickers everywhere, but everyone in the media wants to marginalize him. Ron actually names the military-industrial complex, he goes after Goldman Sachs, and he wants to end the Federal Reserve."

I have a lot of experience with left-anarchists, and that is partly my background. A major portion of them don't vote period, so while you could have a good conversation with them, it won't mean a lot if your only goal is to get votes for Ron Paul. Many of them are very cool, though. The brighter ones will be familiar with John Zerzan, Bob Black, and the Situationists, and have a strong ecological/holistic perspective. The dumber ones will typically identify as anarcho-syndicalists, and they are viewed as sort of a joke by the other anarchists. They are like Marxists without the intellectual veneer.

Marxists/RCP'ers are more volatile and strident. These guys can be a waste of time, but it is interesting to see how they view the world.

Amongst the more moderate left-wing crowd, the types who look to Chomsky and Michael Moore, you can mention things like how Dennis Kucinich said back in 2007 that he would have chosen Ron Paul as his running mate if he won the 2008 Democratic nomination. They can look it up on the internet. That is how much Ron's integrity and common interest in ending the wars, the Federal Reserve, and corporate interests meant to a genuine progressive. Ron Paul agrees with Chomsky that our problems around the world arise from blowback, from the hundreds of thousands of people who have died due to our wars and our sanctions. He has been saying this since the 1970s.

Be prepared to rip into Obama, and go into his ties with Goldman Sachs, Monsanto, and others.

Btw, I would recommend watching the interactions that Adam Kokesh has had on his Youtube channel with the OWS crowd. It is pretty interesting.

[danbeaulieu]

I was very into punk rock when I was in my teens, my favorite bands were Fifteen, Capitalist Causalities and Brother Inferior.

I think Ron Paul would be a fairly easy sell to Punks as many are libertarians like Jeff Ott.

[danbeaulieu]

I have a lot of experience with left-anarchists, and that is partly my background. A major portion of them don't vote period, so while you could have a good conversation with them, it won't mean a lot if your only goal is to get votes for Ron Paul.


I agree, but if you could market the idea to bands and get them to get on board with the idea. The people would be more influenced to get out to the polls.

[armenia4ever]

wow! I was wondering something concerning promoting Paul at shows as well. I go to alot of metal-core and hardcore shows, and I've been trying to figure out a good way to promote Paul there. I noticed Peta at Warped Tour both the last two years, and how they've had a tent, spreading pamphlets at the gates, ect. We can do that too.

The most important thing to bring up to people there is how everything going on right now effects them. Bring up the point that gas taxes, subsidies for certain corporations, carbon emission regulations that make vehicles more expensive, ect all tie into the fact of just how many people will be able to come to a show. It's hard to shell out even 10$ for a local show that is an hour and half away with the current price of gas. (Especially when they are kids just out of high-school making 10$ an hour if they are lucky.) Your favorite band doesn't have enough money to tour through your state? Make them ask the most important question, "Why"

The issues I've found that have really resounded with alot of people there our age are:

The Patriot Act: Anyone being branded a terrorist doesn't go over to well.
Drug Legalization: As much as I hate to do it, there are alot of kids who light up either in the back parking lot, their car, ect and making sure the know that Obama is using the Federal Government to shut down pot shops, regardless of what the perspective state's laws are on the matter, and that Ron Paul is for legalization.
The Wars: Everyone usually seems to be anti-war.
Corporate Capitalism: There is alot of hate for "capitalism" out there. Point out that we have never had anything close to a true free market, and that we in fact now have a system which benefits corporations and big business thanks to the government meddling in the market.
Consistency: Paul is someone who doesn't flip flop. He almost always votes no.
Regulation: Make sure they know why its so hard for venues to function when they are being crushed by over-regulation. Make sure they know why they can't have a show at their house without all the proper permits. Permits for this, permits for that.
Piracy. Make sure they know that Paul seems through the media giants efforts to use the government to try and "contain" piracy. Paul, as well as all of us, can see the much bigger picture as to the precedent those laws will set.
Small Government: The best way to solve social issues and bring the most power to the people to control how they will choose to live.

[LibertyEsq]

pfft Forget punk/hardcore..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRzTz8fUfPw&feature=BFa&list=PL91B4005FB77D2C41&lf=BFp

\m/