What I would do with RevPAC's moneybomb

[rp08orbust]

I've heard from multiple people in the last couple weeks that the Ron Paul campaign is done with straw polls. Thus, without some serious grassroots effort, Rick Perry will most likely win Florida's Presidency 5 straw poll, Michigan's Mackinac Island straw poll and the Values Voter Summit straw poll in DC, helping to cement his status as the front-runner. If this happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rick Perry zoom to the high thirties in Iowa.

The time to act on Presidency 5 was before the June 10 application deadline, but there is just barely enough time left to act on Michigan's straw poll, and plenty of time to act on VVS. They could both be won with a few hundred votes (VVS appears to have canceled the online component of their straw poll), which would cost $40k each if all tickets for Ron Paul supporters were made available for free. VVS is both more important and a couple weeks further off than the MI straw poll, so that's where I would focus.

The objections to RevPAC spending their money this way would no doubt be the same as the Ron Paul campaign's: It's a lot of money to spend on something the media will dismiss and ignore by accusing Ron Paul of buying yet another straw poll victory. But if we don't "buy" Ron Paul another straw poll victory, Rick Perry will buy a highly meaningful string of three straw poll victories that will be worth millions of dollars in endless media commentary. So I don't look at the straw polls in terms of what they can gain Ron Paul, but in terms of how they can prevent Rick Perry from gaining further momentum.

That is my $0.02 on what I would do with RevPAC's ~65k (my guess for the final total). That's not enough money to launch a significant ad campaign, and the Ron Paul campaign is doing wonderfully in that department. On the other hand, it is enough money to win at least one of the three largest remaining straw polls, and the Ron Paul campaign appears to have given up on them all.

RevPAC seems pretty set on focusing on ads though, so it would take a huge amount of noise for them to change course in such a short period of time.

[RileyE104]

Can't they just play the ad in Florida this week before the poll this weekend?

[rp08orbust]

Can't they just play the ad in Florida this week before the poll this weekend?

Sure they could do that. It might sway 30 or so P5 delegates, giving Ron an extra 1% in the straw poll. Or they could put it all into VVS and win it.

If anything were to be done about P5, it would be far more efficient to purchase the delegate list and hand-deliver mail (it's too late for snail mail).

[D.A.S.]

I've heard from multiple people in the last couple weeks that the Ron Paul campaign is done with straw polls. Thus, without some serious grassroots effort, Rick Perry will most likely win Florida's Presidency 5 straw poll, Michigan's Mackinac Island straw poll and the Values Voter Summit straw poll in DC, helping to cement his status as the front-runner. If this happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rick Perry zoom to the high thirties in Iowa.

The time to act on Presidency 5 was before the June 10 application deadline, but there is just barely enough time left to act on Michigan's straw poll, and plenty of time to act on VVS. They could both be won with a few hundred votes (VVS appears to have canceled the online component of their straw poll), which would cost $40k each if all tickets for Ron Paul supporters were made available for free. VVS is both more important and a couple weeks further off than the MI straw poll, so that's where I would focus.

The objections to RevPAC spending their money this way would no doubt be the same as the Ron Paul campaign's: It's a lot of money to spend on something the media will dismiss and ignore by accusing Ron Paul of buying yet another straw poll victory. But if we don't "buy" Ron Paul another straw poll victory, Rick Perry will buy a highly meaningful string of three straw poll victories that will be worth millions of dollars in endless media commentary. So I don't look at the straw polls in terms of what they can gain Ron Paul, but in terms of how they can prevent Rick Perry from gaining further momentum.

That is my $0.02 on what I would do with RevPAC's ~65k (my guess for the final total). That's not enough money to launch a significant ad campaign, and the Ron Paul campaign is doing wonderfully in that department. On the other hand, it is enough money to win at least one of the three largest remaining straw polls, and the Ron Paul campaign appears to have given up on them all.

RevPAC seems pretty set on focusing on ads though, so it would take a huge amount of noise for them to change course in such a short period of time.

I have to say I agree with everything you just said. From what I understand, the RevPAC wants to hire some fundraising professionals with the money they raise today, so they may not want to give that money up for strawpoll activities. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that we must play defense here -- if Perry nets 3 strawpolls we will go from silence to extensive cheerleading of Perry's electability. So we do need to prevent that from happening by winning or coming in a close second in 2 of these.


Can't they just play the ad in Florida this week before the poll this weekend?

I think it will be money wasted, as the Florida strawpoll seems to heavily favor political establishment.

[RileyE104]

Sure they could do that. It might sway 30 or so P5 delegates, giving Ron an extra 1% in the straw poll. Or they could put it all into VVS and win it.

Touche. I just hope that RevPAC has some offline donations that they haven't added yet. Otherwise, I don't get why they don't just go work for the campaign making awesome ads and stuff. I mean if they can't convince the Vaughns and Manilows who support Paul to give more than $5,000 each, I don't see what the point is.

[eleganz]

Put the ad money in Iowa and NH...just saying...

[muzzled dogg]

+rep

take the straw polls

[Aratus]

we've handed mackinac island to michele bachmann (girl next door?) or mitt romney(senator's son!)
so don't assume rick perry is to be in two places at once! mitt romney will be thrilling people up there
on the night of the 24th after the dinner when he speaks. i can sense rp08orbust's OP frustration!!!

[libertybrewcity]

Is there for sure a straw poll at VVS? I can't find anything about it on the website.

I live right outside of DC and go to the DC events once in a while. I would probably only go to see Ron Paul and vote in the straw poll.

But, 50 dollars is kind of a lot of money just to do that.

So my question is is it worth it do you think to vote and spend the 50 bucks?

[parocks]

I've heard from multiple people in the last couple weeks that the Ron Paul campaign is done with straw polls. Thus, without some serious grassroots effort, Rick Perry will most likely win Florida's Presidency 5 straw poll, Michigan's Mackinac Island straw poll and the Values Voter Summit straw poll in DC, helping to cement his status as the front-runner. If this happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rick Perry zoom to the high thirties in Iowa.

The time to act on Presidency 5 was before the June 10 application deadline, but there is just barely enough time left to act on Michigan's straw poll, and plenty of time to act on VVS. They could both be won with a few hundred votes (VVS appears to have canceled the online component of their straw poll), which would cost $40k each if all tickets for Ron Paul supporters were made available for free. VVS is both more important and a couple weeks further off than the MI straw poll, so that's where I would focus.

The objections to RevPAC spending their money this way would no doubt be the same as the Ron Paul campaign's: It's a lot of money to spend on something the media will dismiss and ignore by accusing Ron Paul of buying yet another straw poll victory. But if we don't "buy" Ron Paul another straw poll victory, Rick Perry will buy a highly meaningful string of three straw poll victories that will be worth millions of dollars in endless media commentary. So I don't look at the straw polls in terms of what they can gain Ron Paul, but in terms of how they can prevent Rick Perry from gaining further momentum.

That is my $0.02 on what I would do with RevPAC's ~65k (my guess for the final total). That's not enough money to launch a significant ad campaign, and the Ron Paul campaign is doing wonderfully in that department. On the other hand, it is enough money to win at least one of the three largest remaining straw polls, and the Ron Paul campaign appears to have given up on them all.

RevPAC seems pretty set on focusing on ads though, so it would take a huge amount of noise for them to change course in such a short period of time.

Like most everything, you're spot on with this. Straw poll wins are important because they deny someone else a story.

[angelatc]

Maybe you should set up your own PAC so you can raise money and focus on straw polls.

People who donated were told that their money was going to be used to get the ads on the air. It would be pretty sleazy to use it for something else.

Why should the RevPAC be more concerned about the straw polls than the campaign is? If you disagree with the campaign's decision, and you want Ron Paul to win straw polls, why not direct the noise at the entity that changed course, the campaign?

[Eric21ND]

Maybe you should set up your own PAC so you can raise money and focus on straw polls.

People who donated were told that their money was going to be used to get the ads on the air. It would be pretty sleazy to use it for something else.

Why should the RevPAC be more concerned about the straw polls than the campaign is? If you disagree with the campaign's decision, and you want Ron Paul to win straw polls, why not direct the noise at the entity that changed course, the campaign?
Too many restrictions.

[angelatc]

Too many restrictions.

Yes, it's easier to just to armchair quarterback, I suppose.

[FriedChicken]

Maybe you should set up your own PAC so you can raise money and focus on straw polls.

People who donated were told that their money was going to be used to get the ads on the air. It would be pretty sleazy to use it for something else.

Why should the RevPAC be more concerned about the straw polls than the campaign is? If you disagree with the campaign's decision, and you want Ron Paul to win straw polls, why not direct the noise at the entity that changed course, the campaign?

The part I love about the OP is that this would be covering an area that the campaign isn't. There would be zero overlap of efforts. It would also put some funding behind labor - for them to spend the money on ads would be waste potential grassroots labor, rather than fund it.

I'm of the opinion that RP08 is extremely on target with this post.

[FriedChicken]

RP08 has put tons of his own money into efforts and didn't get much help from others on this forum to fund his activism.
For him to set up a new pac would be a waste of time I think - he would spend more time trying to raise money than being productive. Also all the red tape involved.

We would be wise to listen to him. He knows what he's talking about and times a wastin.

[angelatc]

RP08 has put tons of his own money into efforts and didn't get much help from others on this forum to fund his activism.
For him to set up a new pac would be a waste of time I think - he would spend more time trying to raise money than being productive. Also all the red tape involved.

We would be wise to listen to him. He knows what he's talking about and times a wastin.

What "we" are you referring to? Again, it was the campaign that made the decision not to focus on any more straw polls. Why not make noise at them if "we" disagree with that change?

[parocks]

Too many restrictions.

When foreigners say "can I contribute to this RevPac moneybomb" I believe the answer is no, most people say no, and I tend to agree with them, although I honestly don't know what the facts are.

I do suggest people who just should have money to keep doing what they're doing. rporbust is one of the people I recommend foreigners who can't give money to the PAC give money - straight up paypal - to. I have no idea if that's legal, but these are just regular people doing what they want to do, and I'm not arguing that it's legal.

[parocks]

What "we" are you referring to? Again, it was the campaign that made the decision not to focus on any more straw polls. Why not make noise at them if "we" disagree with that change?

I think rporbust is right on with what he's saying, but he is really saying that money should go to straw polls, not necessarily, entirely, that RevPac should spend money on straw polls that they promised would be spent on TV spots.

If RevPac told people to contribute to air tv spots, they should spend it on that. But they really could get more bang for buck from the straw poll.

I see what RPorbust is doing as something that meetup groups, or anybody, really, could use.

On another thread, someone said "do I buy signs, or give money to the campaign"? If Rporbust could call people from your Zipcode, offering a free sign to anyone who could answer the "champion of the constitution" question, and he could get 50 people for $100, buy 50 signs and give $100 to rporbust.

[Esoteric]

bump. Too many slept on Presidncy 5. We NEED to win these. MUST wins. If nothing else.. even if the media completely blacks out Paul victories at VVS or Michigan, it will still mitigate Perry's momentum

[muzzled dogg]

VVS we can win. MI seems too expensive. FL seems too exclusive. NFRW i guess no ones cares about. we'll see what's up with IL come november

[rp08orbust]

People who donated were told that their money was going to be used to get the ads on the air. It would be pretty sleazy to use it for something else.

Unless they polled the donors and found that they agreed.


If you disagree with the campaign's decision, and you want Ron Paul to win straw polls, why not direct the noise at the entity that changed course, the campaign?

I think the RevPAC board is more likely to listen.

[RonPaul101.com]

rp08 is right IMO and here is why I believe so:

1. Even if RP doesn't get a media boost from winning, he would still avoid a media attack for losing badly. Especially the VVS, where its a 'southern Christian connection' that will be made by the media and that the religious south always picks the GOP nominee.

2. You can't go at it half-assed; pardon the expression. Again on the VVS, if Dr Paul is speaking there and the campaign will have a booth setup (confirmed at this point), you can't afford to not spend what is needed to try to win and later say, "We weren't trying." If you're not trying, why are you speaking there? Why setup at all? Again, I think he NEEDS to be there and NEEDS to do well in this poll to show he can be a GOP Nominee in the more typical voter sense, even though we all like him for more hearty reasoning.

3. What good are ads if you're advertising a loser? I know, ouch. But would you ever listen to a Huntsman ad with an open mind given that he polls at 1%? We need to protect and strengthen our national polling numbers to stay as a possible primary winner in early states, and these polls help do just that.

4. The VVS could potentially be a 6,000 vote straw poll. I may be overstepping, I know, but its almost like not spending money to try to win Ames; given that Ames has now past.

5. The VVS is in a populated area; if you build it, they will come ("it" being a ticket to the event). Point being is its drivable from a lot of the population. Remember Dr Paul got 16% of the primary vote in PA in 2008, and is polling at 11% in NJ, and has die hard supporters in NY and NH. The campaign just needs to give away tickets and the work is done. We may not even need to spend lots of money finding homes for these tickets, so long as they don't do this project last minute.

[rp08orbust]

4. The VVS could potentially be a 6,000 vote straw poll.

It was only that high in 2007 because of the online component to the straw poll, which was cancelled in 2008. Since then, there have been fewer than 1,000 votes.

[RonPaul101.com]

+ rep to rp08, this thread needed to be written.

[D.A.S.]

My gut tells me this is where the money should go. Winning straw polls gets tangible results, and I have to say we must not underestimate the power of straw polls. The media may ignore them (although the Calif. straw poll came out big), but I see how people on Facebook who are on the fence about Ron react to the straw poll numbers. They say things like "wow, why do they say he's unelectable with numbers like that!"

And do people really donate to the RevPAC with the premise that the money will be used to run TV ads? I mean, are donors promised that this is where the money is going? I thought people donate to a PAC because they trust that the PAC will support the candidate the way they best see fit...? :confused:

[Aratus]

VVS we can win. MI seems too expensive. FL seems too exclusive. NFRW i guess no ones cares about. we'll see what's up with IL come november

shemdogg is correct. lets all focus on the VVS after mackinac and presidency 5 divide the pack!
i think mitt is to be top two in michigan, i'm hoping newt G. or herman cain dries up any astroturf
that might go to rick perry in florida. ms. backmann is lucky if she is better than third in either poll.

[rp08orbust]

shemdogg is correct. lets focus on VVS after mackinac and presidency 5 divide the pack!

I believe Rick Perry will win both. As happy as I am that Ron Paul won the CA straw poll, I found the results very ominous. By my estimates, Rick Perry had the CAGOP insider vote almost all to himself, which means he did some serious behind-the-scenes politicking for it.

[FriedChicken]

What "we" are you referring to? Again, it was the campaign that made the decision not to focus on any more straw polls. Why not make noise at them if "we" disagree with that change?

We as in me, you, this board, supporters across the nation and RevPac.
I don't want to start bossing the campaign around with this - what that would lead to is us getting half the work done then the campaign stepping in a needing to redo everything because they aren't able to team up with our efforts (like what happened when they finally started phone banking for Ames it caused a huge divide amongst supporters because of RP2012.org.)

The campaign has pretty much left it to us to win these polls, lets save them the money and effort and win it for them.
RP08 has a ton of experience/know how/strategy with these straw polls ... as I said, we would be wise to listen to him.

I hope to hear a yes or no answer from RevPac soon on this issue so it ends this argument and we can get started (one way or the other) on winning these straw polls. By "we" I'm actually not referring to myself because I'm already involved in an Iowa phone banking project and won't be able to spare time towards this.

[AdamT]

If RP2012 doesn't think winning these straw polls are important, then take the issue up with them. I can't speak for the entire Board at RevPAC, but our mission is to air communications on TV and radio, and do additional high dollar fundraising to sustain that mission. Phone banking is not currently on our agenda at the moment sorry to say.

[parocks]

I believe Rick Perry will win both. As happy as I am that Ron Paul won the CA straw poll, I found the results very ominous. By my estimates, Rick Perry had the CAGOP insider vote almost all to himself, which means he did some serious behind-the-scenes politicking for it.

Apart from the question of straw polls, I'd say continue to attack Rick Perry. He's taking people we should be getting. Maybe I completely don't understand what "tea party" is.

[parocks]

We as in me, you, this board, supporters across the nation and RevPac.
I don't want to start bossing the campaign around with this - what that would lead to is us getting half the work done then the campaign stepping in a needing to redo everything because they aren't able to team up with our efforts (like what happened when they finally started phone banking for Ames it caused a huge divide amongst supporters because of RP2012.org.)

The campaign has pretty much left it to us to win these polls, lets save them the money and effort and win it for them.
RP08 has a ton of experience/know how/strategy with these straw polls ... as I said, we would be wise to listen to him.

I hope to hear a yes or no answer from RevPac soon on this issue so it ends this argument and we can get started (one way or the other) on winning these straw polls. By "we" I'm actually not referring to myself because I'm already involved in an Iowa phone banking project and won't be able to spare time towards this.

RevPac wants to do TV. The suggestion is that RP2012.org be responsible for straw polls.

[rp08orbust]

RevPac wants to do TV. The suggestion is that RP2012.org be responsible for straw polls.

rp2012.org doesn't want to do anymore straw polls. I don't think they have the fundraising capacity for it anyway though. Raising $1,000 for robocalls in Los Angeles was extremely difficult (the $25,000 for tickets came from the RLC-CA).

[FriedChicken]

If RP2012 doesn't think winning these straw polls are important, then take the issue up with them. I can't speak for the entire Board at RevPAC, but our mission is to air communications on TV and radio, and do additional high dollar fundraising to sustain that mission. Phone banking is not currently on our agenda at the moment sorry to say.

Thank you for chiming in so quickly, it is good to know you're paying attention.

After seeing the fruits of RP08's labor for straw polls in the past and reading about his experiences and strategies I think we could put a very efficient and effective plan in place.

Adam,
Do you think the RevPac board would at least hear this idea out? I think you should have a conference call with RP08 (I think you name is Rob, right?) to listen to his ideas.
I think we could win the VVS poll for the price of a couple commercials. The press from it would probably pay for the effort and even if not ... at least we'd keep Perry from getting free advertisement.

Another point I'll add to the conversation since its come up a couple times and then I'm done:
Taking this issue up with the campaign would be a waste of time, please stop suggesting we waste out time. Not only does it waste our time, it wastes the campaign's staff's time.

This is one area I think the grassroots can produce the same results for half the money. At least hear the man out.

[AdamT]

I know RP08 does good work, no doubt. This is not in our plans though, we have a lot of other things going on. It's not the time for us to be doing phonebanking sorry to say. Circumstances might be different down the line.

If you don't want to take my word for it, feel free to contact the PAC but it will likely get you nowhere. Don't want to waste your time.

[rp08orbust]

I know RP08 does good work, no doubt. This is not in our plans though, we have a lot of other things going on. It's not the time for us to be doing phonebanking sorry to say.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that RevPAC do phonebanking--just purchase VVS convention tickets.

[parocks]

rp2012.org doesn't want to do anymore straw polls. I don't think they have the fundraising capacity for it anyway though. Raising $1,000 for robocalls in Los Angeles was extremely difficult (the $25,000 for tickets came from the RLC-CA).

It's pretty amazing that you are able to talk about how many calls you make, how much it cost, and how many votes, at straw poll after straw poll, and it's still pulling teeth for you to get any money.

I will say that you should just have a "give me money" paypal button somewhere.

I don't like the long form on some pacs website.

What people really did like, early in the Iowa process, was the results of the robopoll. You had a daily thread, you said who you called, and what the results were. And people loved, they got it. And then things got screwy. Someone said that the results would help other campaigns, and you took the results down. Taking the results down kept eyeballs away from your work. And then you continued to do calling, with impressive results, but people couldn't really understand exactly what you were doing.

I'm sorta saying that you might get a better return if you lay out as much as you can for people to see.

I know you were working on California Straw Poll. We could win this, you said. And we won it. But I guess I missed the thread called "RP08orbust's California Straw Poll Robocalling Recap." Where you breakdown everything you did - show it's effectiveness. And just have a ready link to a webpage with a simple pay with paypal button.

[rp08orbust]

We know that VVS will be declared the "new CPAC" if anyone other than Ron Paul wins. Something I fear more than that is it being declared the "new Ames" if Rick Perry (who skipped the real Ames) wins. If Rick Perry gets anointed the Evangelical candidate at VVS, then Ron Paul is screwed in Iowa.

[AdamT]

If these straw polls are so important why did the campaign abandon them? Really curious about that. Can anyone shed light?

[rp08orbust]

I know you were working on California Straw Poll. We could win this, you said. And we won it. But I guess I missed the thread called "RP08orbust's California Straw Poll Robocalling Recap." Where you breakdown everything you did - show it's effectiveness.

Unfortunately there isn't going to be a recap of the robocall results in CA. Unlike in GA, where rp2012.org both recruited voters and paid for the tickets, in California, the RLC paid for the tickets while rp2012.org did some of the voter recruiting. There was poor communication between the two (partly my fault), and the ticket issuing at the event was pretty disorganized. Jun was not allowed to collect any data on who tickets were issued to. So as in Iowa, we'll never know what impact rp2012.org had on the CA straw poll, though I would guess that it was a lot less than Ron Paul's margin of victory (almost all the free tickets that the RLC gave out were to its own contacts).

[trey4sports]

Seems like everyone expects Rev. PAC to do everything. Run attack ads, run positive ads, put together infomercials, win straw polls, i mean i hate to break it to ya but it's going to come down to doing the most with what they have. While denying Rick Perry a straw poll win might be great, i think getting out a message that will affect the first-in-the-nation caucus state like Iowa is probably going to have more affect on the trajectory of Ron Paul's campaign.

[rp08orbust]

If these straw polls are so important why did the campaign abandon them? Really curious about that. Can anyone shed light?

I would guess that part of it was the lack of return on investment in the Republican Leadership Conference victory in June. With over 600 votes for Ron Paul, I would estimate that they purchased at least 800 tickets (75% turnout would be very good btw--far better than the turnout for SRLC 2010), which at full price would have been $300 each, and which they issued to supporters for free. I don't know what kind of bulk discount they might have gotten on the tickets, but they could easily have spent more than $200k on the straw poll.

In hindsight it might have been a waste of money, given that the only competition ended up being Jon 1% Huntsman. However, Jon planned an SRLC straw poll victory to coincide with his campaign announcement the same weekend, which Ron Paul's victory totally disrupted. But who knows, if it had not been for Ron Paul's victory there, he might be Jon 10% Huntsman today, taking up some of Ron Paul's anti-war (or at least not so interventionist) vote, in which case the SRLC win was very much worth the money.

[hubze]

My gut tells me this is where the money should go. Winning straw polls gets tangible results, and I have to say we must not underestimate the power of straw polls. The media may ignore them (although the Calif. straw poll came out big), but I see how people on Facebook who are on the fence about Ron react to the straw poll numbers. They say things like "wow, why do they say he's unelectable with numbers like that!"

And do people really donate to the RevPAC with the premise that the money will be used to run TV ads? I mean, are donors promised that this is where the money is going? I thought people donate to a PAC because they trust that the PAC will support the candidate the way they best see fit...? :confused:

You can also see his Facebook fan base grow after each straw poll and debate...

[rp08orbust]

I will say that you should just have a "give me money" paypal button somewhere.

I appreciate your confidence in me, but I'm not going to come anywhere near RevPAC's fundraising feet of ~$100k by sticking a PayPal button on a web page and posting on RPFs. I essentially did give people a PayPal button before the Iowa straw poll by posting my email address. Fundraising was extremely difficult. Almost all of it came from about five different people, two of which were Jun and myself.

[parocks]

Unfortunately there isn't going to be a recap of the robocall results in CA. Unlike in GA, where rp2012.org both recruited voters and paid for the tickets, in California, the RLC paid for the tickets while rp2012.org did some of the voter recruiting. There was poor communication between the two (partly my fault), and the ticket issuing at the event was pretty disorganized. Jun was not allowed to collect any data on who tickets were issued to. So as in Iowa, we'll never know what impact rp2012.org had on the CA straw poll, though I would guess that it was a lot less than Ron Paul's margin of victory (almost all the free tickets that the RLC gave out were to its own contacts).

I'd like to see those Iowa numbers again. I think you might be undercounting what you did there in Iowa, or just underplaying it.

As I recall, you said something like 250 from the last batch of "champion" quiz calls, and 750 from the numbers that you gave to rp2012. But I do remember that you did
ID a lot of voters and you got that data over to the official campaign. And in your analysis, you called those the campaigns gets. What do you have for those numbers - Ron Paul supporters who you Id'd and then sent to the official campaign, after which time volunteers through the official channels made the calls?

Also, would you be able to make calls for meetup groups? If someone said they wanted 50 Ron Paul supporters in their zip code, and they were giving away a free Ron Paul lawn sign for that data, how much would it cost to get those 50. Since I know that you were getting those for about $2, I could say, how many supporters could someone get for $100?

[parocks]

I appreciate your confidence in me, but I'm not going to come anywhere near RevPAC's fundraising feet of ~$100k by sticking a PayPal button on a web page and posting on RPFs. I essentially did give people a PayPal button before the Iowa straw poll by posting my email address. Fundraising was extremely difficult. Almost all of it came from about five different people, two of which were Jun and myself.

You didn't make it too easy. It seemed that you were more interested in preventing spam emails than actually getting money sent to you from pay pal, be caus e you al ways bro ke up your e mail add ress.

[rp08orbust]

I'd like to see those Iowa numbers again. I think you might be undercounting what you did there in Iowa, or just underplaying it.

I'm not undercutting it--I just think it's off-topic. What you're referring to is my very rough estimate of what the grassroots contributed toward Ron Paul's Iowa straw poll total, which can be found in this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?314666-Using-robocalls-to-grow-your-Meetup-and-win-straw-polls

I don't think anyone doubts that Ron Paul could win the VVS straw poll if enough money were spent on tickets. What's in question is whether it would be worth the money and where the money would come from. I only bring up RevPAC because they're the only grassroots entity that has come anywhere near close to raising the amount of money that it would take to win at VVS or other straw polls.

[dusman]

I'd like to see those Iowa numbers again. I think you might be undercounting what you did there in Iowa, or just underplaying it.

As I recall, you said something like 250 from the last batch of "champion" quiz calls, and 750 from the numbers that you gave to rp2012. But I do remember that you did
ID a lot of voters and you got that data over to the official campaign. And in your analysis, you called those the campaigns gets. What do you have for those numbers - Ron Paul supporters who you Id'd and then sent to the official campaign, after which time volunteers through the official channels made the calls?

Also, would you be able to make calls for meetup groups? If someone said they wanted 50 Ron Paul supporters in their zip code, and they were giving away a free Ron Paul lawn sign for that data, how much would it cost to get those 50. Since I know that you were getting those for about $2, I could say, how many supporters could someone get for $100?

I agree. The speculation at the time was that the robocalls could make the difference and it sure did seem that way.

[Aratus]

although i think mackinac michigan may leap into mitt's lap, shemdogg and rp08orbust are very correct!

[rp08orbust]

You didn't make it too easy. It seemed that you were more interested in preventing spam emails than actually getting money sent to you from pay pal, be caus e you al ways bro ke up your e mail add ress.

I seriously doubt that the robocalls lost any funding from people too lazy to remove spaces from my email address.

[Aratus]

i feel the robocalls put us on the map in georgia as we denied second place to rick perry.
jon huntsman eventually being in the next GOP cabinet i can live with. i'm indeed hoping
that doctor ron paul, CEO herman cain and rep. michele bachmann can block rick perry in
florida if only to deny him a momentum over time. if mitt romney cannot place top two in
michigan and top three in florida, he is toast, he is done, stick a fork in! he has more to
loose than michele bachmann or newt gingrich do this weekend. we can come in third in
both polls if we sweep the V V Summit in d.c! lets do focus on the V V Summit next, after
seeing what mitt does up on mackinac. he either holds a traditional IKE era relic 100% firm
or slick gov. rick is on a drole roll. lets don't egg on this carpetbagging snake oil salesman.

[parocks]

I'm not undercutting it--I just think it's off-topic. What you're referring to is my very rough estimate of what the grassroots contributed toward Ron Paul's Iowa straw poll total, which can be found in this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?314666-Using-robocalls-to-grow-your-Meetup-and-win-straw-polls

I don't think anyone doubts that Ron Paul could win the VVS straw poll if enough money were spent on tickets. What's in question is whether it would be worth the money and where the money would come from. I only bring up RevPAC because they're the only grassroots entity that has come anywhere near close to raising the amount of money that it would take to win at VVS or other straw polls.

I think either Revpac or rp2012.org should fund what you think should be funded. You are effectively, easily getting the results we want.

I can't comment on whether buying tickets for people for values voter is worth the price of the ticket.

I do know that you should be kept as busy as possible. Because what you do is worth more than it costs.

Meetup groups should be using your robocalling services. Every time a meetup group does something of note, they should ask "do we have $100 to tell people about this event by phone" Do we have $100 just to do a poll of our zip code. There a lot of services you can provide to a meetup group. Providing valuable information at a very low cost.

[Paul Fan]

Rp08orbust has done incredible things so far, and I agree with his analysis completely. It is really important to deny Perry tbese straw poll wins. That keeps it clear that Perry is the candidate of the establishment rather than the grassroots.

What about asking Meetups to each sponsor 10 attendees, or something? If we spread the burden more broadly then it might be possible to manage it. With travel costs at a minimum the vv summit is a big opportunity.

[FriedChicken]

RevPac wants to do TV. The suggestion is that RP2012.org be responsible for straw polls.

gotcha, sorry. I was confusing RP212 with the official campaign (in name only) just spaced out is all. This DOES change the viewpoint of my previous statements ... sorry about that, I'll correct some of what I said in a later post. Sorry for the confusion.

[rp08orbust]

Some noise has been made, and it sounds like the campaign is going to make an effort to win VVS. Apparently they were basing their cost estimates on bad data. The 2007 vote totals were inflated due to an online component to the straw poll that they have since abandoned. There will not be anywhere near 6,000 votes. In 2007, there were only 954 in-person votes, and there will probably only be around 1,200 this year. 400 free tickets from the Ron Paul campaign should be able to win it.

[angelatc]

MI seems too expensive. I woudn't underestimate the Michigan grassroots. Remember last time, with Rudy on the ferry? :)

[parocks]

gotcha, sorry. I was confusing RP212 with the official campaign (in name only) just spaced out is all. This DOES change the viewpoint of my previous statements ... sorry about that, I'll correct some of what I said in a later post. Sorry for the confusion.

It has been said that RP2012.org does not want to do straw polls.

On other threads there are chip ins where people are traveling long distances, and the chip ins are popping up to provide gas money and buy tix and whatever, and people don't have a problem with filling those chip ins.

[parocks]

Some noise has been made, and it sounds like the campaign is going to make an effort to win VVS. Apparently they were basing their cost estimates on bad data. The 2007 vote totals were inflated due to an online component to the straw poll that they have since abandoned. There will not be anywhere near 6,000 votes. In 2007, there were only 954 in-person votes, and there will probably only be around 1,200 this year. 400 free tickets from the Ron Paul campaign should be able to win it.

That's great news, and you are bringing the inside info. Great stuff.

If you're looking for people to attend Values Voters, there are a lot of supporters in Harrisburg, PA, which is about 2 / 2.5 hours down the highway from DC.

[rp08orbust]

I woudn't underestimate the Michigan grassroots. Remember last time, with Rudy on the ferry? :)

The only problem is that the campaign's Michigan volunteer manual actively discourages Ron Paul supporters from "wasting" their time and money on the Mackinac Conference. Hopefully very few Ron Paul supporters in MI read the manual before this weekend.

[Aratus]

if we & michele bachmann dominate this one as mitt romney defends home turf from rick perry,
a top two for us would be cool! i know presidency five in florida has the focus, or V V Summit!!!

[TexMac]

Some noise has been made, and it sounds like the campaign is going to make an effort to win VVS. Apparently they were basing their cost estimates on bad data. The 2007 vote totals were inflated due to an online component to the straw poll that they have since abandoned. There will not be anywhere near 6,000 votes. In 2007, there were only 954 in-person votes, and there will probably only be around 1,200 this year. 400 free tickets from the Ron Paul campaign should be able to win it.I remember that online thing! I signed up to vote and received emails from them forever.

So, are we robocalling or do we have enough people?

[angelatc]

The only problem is that the campaign's Michigan volunteer manual actively discourages Ron Paul supporters from "wasting" their time and money on the Mackinac Conference. Hopefully very few Ron Paul supporters in MI read the manual before this weekend.

Well, there are a lot of Ron Paul people in the MI GOP, so hopefully they're going anyway. We were planning on going, with the party, not the grassroots, but something happened that's going to keep the hubby on the sidelines for a while. It's really a shame that they're discouraging the "fun" stuff. I know it can't be the only stuff, but a weekend on Mackinac this time of year is a great morale builder.

[rp08orbust]

I remember that online thing! I signed up to vote and received emails from them forever.

So, are we robocalling or do we have enough people?

Let's see what the campaign comes up with. I'd consider robocalling if there are lots of unclaimed free tickets during the week of the conference and I have a good line of communication with whoever is distributing them. Fundraising for it would be a problem, because rp2012.org isn't interested in working on anymore straw polls.

But the campaign should have no trouble finding voters. They need 1/3 as many as they need for CPAC.

[rp08orbust]

Well, there are a lot of Ron Paul people in the MI GOP, so hopefully they're going anyway. We were planning on going, with the party, not the grassroots, but something happened that's going to keep the hubby on the sidelines for a while. It's really a shame that they're discouraging the "fun" stuff. I know it can't be the only stuff, but a weekend on Mackinac this time of year is a great morale builder.

IIRC, Mackinac Island is where the FRN-burning ceremony and the "End the Fed" chant started. And scaring Rudy Giuliani into going below deck on the ferry looks like it was tons of fun.

[FSP-Rebel]

Well, there are a lot of Ron Paul people in the MI GOP, so hopefully they're going anyway.
Are you, cause me and many of us round here aren't. Last time we posted RP vinyl banners all up I-75 to Mackinac, this round we just kept the dough and gave it to the campaign. I'm not telling anyone not to go, it's just our local bunch has focused our money on the campaign (re: donations). Only Perry and Romney are showing up there and otherwise it's a Mich politician hangout. Logistic money (all that it entails) doesn't seem worth it when last time Romney bought and paid for supporters' entire trips and to vote as well. Both Romney and Perry have expendable cash to waste on this but the dough that Mich supporters have can be better spent on tv ads and/or canvassing here exposing the both of them via the campaign and/or RevPac this time around.

[FSP-Rebel]

IIRC, Mackinac Island is where the FRN-burning ceremony and the "End the Fed" chant started. And scaring Rudy Giuliani into going below deck on the ferry looks like it was tons of fun.
Guli didn't go below deck, he just hid in the ferry captain's unit on the concourse level. He did, however, walk the plank after we docked back at the city and jumped in a waiting car, rather than walking through our gauntlet on the ferry. Funny, the last ferry from the island back to the city he had to take with us..

[Aratus]

IIRC, Mackinac Island is where the FRN-burning ceremony and the "End the Fed" chant started.
And scaring Rudy Giuliani into going below deck on the ferry looks like it was tons of fun.

the island also has a rEVOLUTIOn history as well as an IKE era tradition! i'm on a learning curve!

[parocks]

RPorbust, have you seen these threads?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?317347-Chip-in-central

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?317179-Could-we-get-a-Chip-In-Central

About a chip in central.

There really should be a chip in for money to you.

[Aratus]

wgadget

[angelatc]

Are you, cause me and many of us round here aren't. Last time we posted RP vinyl banners all up I-75 to Mackinac, this round we just kept the dough and gave it to the campaign. I'm not telling anyone not to go, it's just our local bunch has focused our money on the campaign (re: donations). Only Perry and Romney are showing up there and otherwise it's a Mich politician hangout. Logistic money (all that it entails) doesn't seem worth it when last time Romney bought and paid for supporters' entire trips and to vote as well. Both Romney and Perry have expendable cash to waste on this but the dough that Mich supporters have can be better spent on tv ads and/or canvassing here exposing the both of them via the campaign and/or RevPac this time around.

Looks like I was wrong - I seriously overestimated the Michigan grassroots. What a shame. They were legendary last time.

I don't get it. Paul spent the last 4 years telling us to get active in the GOP, and now that we are, his campaign is telling us to skip their events and just send our money to the campaign. Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, I gave them money last time and they defrauded me when they told me they were running for president, and instead were planning to open a different organization entirely with it. If he wins the primary, I'll pick up where I left off and start donating again, but until then ... - I'm not funding any more boondoggles.

We didn't go, but it was for other reasons. These events were huge morale and excitement builders last time. Politics were engaging. There's always been a negative element in the movement, and the campaign has always absolutely and openly detested the grassroots, but this time I'm really disappointed in just about everybody. The campaign wants nothing but cash, the grassroots are shriveling up and dying, and I'm just not feeling it this time out.