Are you willing to get Ron elected?

[Monique]

Are you willing to get Ron elected if that means you might have to ignore baiters who say horrible things about Ron Paul? Are you willing to get Ron elected if that means not doing one thing that will hurt Ron or make him look bad.

This country is in a hell of a mess. We are all headed for some horrible times if we don't get Ron elected. You can expect your standard of living to drop drop drop...you can expect your dollar to drop drop drop and you can expect your liberty and freedom to drop drop drop unless we get a man who is a longshot to win.

Despite our ability to swarm online polls, the truth is Ron Paul is not in the lead. Ron isn't in second. I don't know where he is but he is absolutely an underdog right now. In order for an underdog to win, we can't be doing anything that will cost him even one vote, because that could be whole election. We don't have thousands of people who are willing to work their asses off for projects, we have a few. We don't have a vote to spare. This isn't drama, these are cold hard facts.

I am sick to death of the way this country is being run. I am scared for my family, and I don't find this issue to be a light hearted topic. I think we are in deep trouble people. Now, when I hear someone say that they don't give a damn if they offend someone and lose Ron a vote because that person is too fickle anyway, I see red.

When I see people saying that they have the right to be offensive and that we should all lighten up I am horrified.

I don't get why people are defending the practice of running off people who might become hard working supporters, or running off even one voter. Who are you and what agenda are you promoting? Is this selfish stupidity or intentional sabotage?

I am very sorry Josh and Brian, I know you have worked your asses off for this site. But, I feel that during the campaign this site should change from a place that is for liberty minded people to say whatever they want, to a site that is focused solely on getting Ron elected. Otherwise, why not call it the liberty place, or freedom forum? But if it is called the Ron Paul forums like it or not everything done on this site directly reflects on Ron.

I see no difference between a statist that is out to steal my money with someone who would rather have fun venting disrespectful garbage that will steal our candidate from us.

We ARE BEHIND PEOPLE!!! RON IS NOT WINNING. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BE "free" right now to do whatever the hell we want. Go scream about Zionism after the election, post all the toilet humor you want after Ron is president. Tell any other supporters they are too ignorant to deserve a decent after the election. In the meantime, STOP IT!!!!

RON CANNOT WIN WITHOUT US DOING ALL WE CAN TO HELP HIM AND NOTHING AT ALL THAT COULD POSSIBLY HURT HIM. I will repeat that....Ron cannot win if we do not do all we can to help him and nothing that could possibly hurt him. Obama and Perry and Romney may have supporters who are lucky enough to have wiggle room to go around making them look bad by attacking people all over blogs. WE do not. If you give a damn about getting Ron elected you will know I am right. You have a choice...be selfish and get your rocks off or clean up your act, be kind to people, and be grateful as hell for anyone who will vote for Ron for any bad reason at all.

And YES people, your behavior does reflect on Ron. Currently, a great deal of people think he is crazy and some of them think that because of the actions of his supporters. Say what you want, but that is a fact. I read every day how people DESPISE Ron's supporters and will never vote for him because of US. Sure, other candidates have nasty supporters too. Sure, we are called insane, and stupid and worse for supporting Ron. But so what???? The point is to save our country from total destruction, not defend ourselves from some twit.

Imagine this exchange:

O supporter: Ron Paul is a crazy old loon who hates the poor and has stupid libertarian ideas that got us into this financial mess in the first place.

RP supporter response: OS...YOU ARE A STUPID COW WHO DESERVES TO DIE. I HOPE YOU ROT IN A HELL OF YOUR OWN DESIGN FOR CHOOSING YOUR CANDIDATE. WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION YOU IGNORANT MORON.


vs.

O supporter: Ron Paul is a crazy old loon who hates the poor and has stupid libertarian ideas that got us into this financial mess in the first place.

RP supporter: What ideas of his do you find stupid? I happen to be a big fan of Ron's because his policies will actually help the poor. It may counter intuitive to think that minimum wages make people poorer, but let me explain how that is. ....

Which scenario is more likely to gain Ron votes?

And keep in mind, you many never win the support of the OP, but you may pick up a vote or 10 or 100 or more from the lurkers who are reading your exchange. Let them sound like the crazy ones, the nasty disrespectful assholes. WE NEED THE VOTES!!!!! We can only get the votes if we tell people Ron's positions and they are open to hearing them.
This strategy takes a lot of selflessness. We need to turn the other cheek rather than punch back. We need to keep our opinions to ourselves because there is no reason why anything I think about abortion one way or the other should have any bearing on Dr. Paul.

Or do you think I am wrong and are you going to defend any action that will lose us a vote? You do know that we need votes from people who don't totally love Ron, we need votes from people who are fickle and might leave for any reason. We need votes from EVERYONE and we can't afford to offend ANYONE. Are you willing to give up ranting for a few months if it will help Ron?

[TexMac]

Did you ever stop to think that the problem is you and your perceptions of what is going on?

Enough, already. The Revolution never responds positively to people administering verbal beatings and negativity. Just get to work doing your own thing like everyone else.

[LibertyEagle]

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy272/Nancy12345a/clapping.gif

The OP is right, in my opinion.

Monique hit the nail right on the head.

[hubze]

Are you willing to get Ron elected if that means you might have to ignore baiters who say horrible things about Ron Paul? Are you willing to get Ron elected if that means not doing one thing that will hurt Ron or make him look bad.

This country is in a hell of a mess. We are all headed for some horrible times if we don't get Ron elected. You can expect your standard of living to drop drop drop...you can expect your dollar to drop drop drop and you can expect your liberty and freedom to drop drop drop unless we get a man who is a longshot to win.

Despite our ability to swarm online polls, the truth is Ron Paul is not in the lead. Ron isn't in second. I don't know where he is but he is absolutely an underdog right now. In order for an underdog to win, we can't be doing anything that will cost him even one vote, because that could be whole election. We don't have thousands of people who are willing to work their asses off for projects, we have a few. We don't have a vote to spare. This isn't drama, these are cold hard facts.

I am sick to death of the way this country is being run. I am scared for my family, and I don't find this issue to be a light hearted topic. I think we are in deep trouble people. Now, when I hear someone say that they don't give a damn if they offend someone and lose Ron a vote because that person is too fickle anyway, I see red.

When I see people saying that they have the right to be offensive and that we should all lighten up I am horrified.

I don't get why people are defending the practice of running off people who might become hard working supporters, or running off even one voter. Who are you and what agenda are you promoting? Is this selfish stupidity or intentional sabotage?

I am very sorry Josh and Brian, I know you have worked your asses off for this site. But, I feel that during the campaign this site should change from a place that is for liberty minded people to say whatever they want, to a site that is focused solely on getting Ron elected. Otherwise, why not call it the liberty place, or freedom forum? But if it is called the Ron Paul forums like it or not everything done on this site directly reflects on Ron.

I see no difference between a statist that is out to steal my money with someone who would rather have fun venting disrespectful garbage that will steal our candidate from us.

We ARE BEHIND PEOPLE!!! RON IS NOT WINNING. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BE "free" right now to do whatever the hell we want. Go scream about Zionism after the election, post all the toilet humor you want after Ron is president. Tell any other supporters they are too ignorant to deserve a decent after the election. In the meantime, STOP IT!!!!

RON CANNOT WIN WITHOUT US DOING ALL WE CAN TO HELP HIM AND NOTHING AT ALL THAT COULD POSSIBLY HURT HIM. I will repeat that....Ron cannot win if we do not do all we can to help him and nothing that could possibly hurt him. Obama and Perry and Romney may have supporters who are lucky enough to have wiggle room to go around making them look bad by attacking people all over blogs. WE do not. If you give a damn about getting Ron elected you will know I am right. You have a choice...be selfish and get your rocks off or clean up your act, be kind to people, and be grateful as hell for anyone who will vote for Ron for any bad reason at all.

And YES people, your behavior does reflect on Ron. Currently, a great deal of people think he is crazy and some of them think that because of the actions of his supporters. Say what you want, but that is a fact. I read every day how people DESPISE Ron's supporters and will never vote for him because of US. Sure, other candidates have nasty supporters too. Sure, we are called insane, and stupid and worse for supporting Ron. But so what???? The point is to save our country from total destruction, not defend ourselves from some twit.

Imagine this exchange:

O supporter: Ron Paul is a crazy old loon who hates the poor and has stupid libertarian ideas that got us into this financial mess in the first place.

RP supporter response: OS...YOU ARE A STUPID COW WHO DESERVES TO DIE. I HOPE YOU ROT IN A HELL OF YOUR OWN DESIGN FOR CHOOSING YOUR CANDIDATE. WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION YOU IGNORANT MORON.


vs.

O supporter: Ron Paul is a crazy old loon who hates the poor and has stupid libertarian ideas that got us into this financial mess in the first place.

RP supporter: What ideas of his do you find stupid? I happen to be a big fan of Ron's because his policies will actually help the poor. It may counter intuitive to think that minimum wages make people poorer, but let me explain how that is. ....

Which scenario is more likely to gain Ron votes?

And keep in mind, you many never win the support of the OP, but you may pick up a vote or 10 or 100 or more from the lurkers who are reading your exchange. Let them sound like the crazy ones, the nasty disrespectful assholes. WE NEED THE VOTES!!!!! We can only get the votes if we tell people Ron's positions and they are open to hearing them.
This strategy takes a lot of selflessness. We need to turn the other cheek rather than punch back. We need to keep our opinions to ourselves because there is no reason why anything I think about abortion one way or the other should have any bearing on Dr. Paul.

Or do you think I am wrong and are you going to defend any action that will lose us a vote? You do know that we need votes from people who don't totally love Ron, we need votes from people who are fickle and might leave for any reason. We need votes from EVERYONE and we can't afford to offend ANYONE. Are you willing to give up ranting for a few months if it will help Ron?

Again...please come over here: http://socialmediamarch.org and work with us to organize. That is exactly what we are focused on...using social sites and the internet to move people and teaching them to do it PROFESSIONALLY so as not to reflect on Dr. Paul...it is IMPERATIVE that we drop the BS right now and focus on the end goal and that is Ron Paul as President of the United States...

[Monique]

Tex, so you are saying that I am wrong? Which part?

[TexMac]

You're blowing some perceived bad behavior way out of proportion. We ARE winning.

And, no one likes to be lectured and treated like a childish imbecile. Maybe this forum is the wrong environment for you if it makes you so distraught.

[Monique]

Ron Paul supporters don't like to see imbeciles defending their childish behavior at the price of costing Ron Paul the election.

There was so much infighting and so many people refusing to work together that we just had a moneybomb that didn't even reach one million dollars. We have gone from 70,000 people donating, to 15,000. Something is not working. I am working my ass off for Ron and you think it is ok to attack me for saying something that needs to be said.

This forum should be full of Ron Paul supporters working like crazy to get him elected. It isn't. Something is very very wrong.

[TexMac]

This forum should be full of Ron Paul supporters working like crazy to get him elected. It isn't. Something is very very wrong.

It is full of supporters working their asses off and if you would look up from typing long whiny Church Lady pearl-clutching lectures you would see this. Go do something positive.

[CaseyJones]

Tex you need to calm down

[TexMac]

Tex you need to calm downI'm perfectly calm.

[orenbus]

There was so much infighting and so many people refusing to work together that we just had a moneybomb that didn't even reach one million dollars. We have gone from 70,000 people donating, to 15,000. Something is not working.

Monique I agree with most of what you are saying, but honestly I think the reason the money bomb didn't raise as much as it could have has less to do with the behavior of supporters and more to do with it's advertising and the date.

I hate to say it but people don't get turned on by most national holidays or gimmick days that candidates campaign's come up with for fundraising ideas. This is what made November the Fifth and the related movie V for Vendetta so different, impactful and successful. I wish people would understand that, in the end it comes down to advertising and it's impact on viewers. The Tea Party date that followed the same revolutionary spirit which motivated not only those that had a rebellious lean to them that had donated on November 5th, and provided a great gimmick edge to the advertising on the web, it also brought out those patriotic individuals that never heard of V for Vendetta or don't follow pop culture, in the end you know the results. It's unfortunate that such days get taken away from us from outside forces, timing is everything.

And you have to remember those that literally "run" the web through their knowledge of technology and are in the best position to spend lots of time advertising money bombs tend to know about these pop culture references and are motivated by concepts and culture that is shared by their generation.

Utilizing what is already out there to motivate others is key, again I wish people would understand that unfortunately the standard response is well you can put in the same energy and passion into X date. Yea but guess what? X date isn't that exciting and since this is a volunteer movement you are going to get people to volunteer if they get excited if not they will do the bare minimum which is to bring up Ron Paul to friends and family, post on this forum occasionally and vote on election day. If you want more than that, if you want people to go the extra mile it has to be fun, even Ron Paul has been saying this since the last campaign if you are not having fun while doing this then you are doing something wrong.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm perfectly calm.

What you said was very rude. I hope that is not the technique you use to win over supporters to Ron Paul.

[LibertyEagle]

Monique I agree with most of what you are saying but honestly I think the reason the money bomb didn't raise as much as it could have has less to do with the behavior of supporters and more to do with it's advertising and the date.

I hate to say it but people don't get turned on by most national holidays or gimmick days that candidates campaign's come up with for fundraising ideas. This is what made November the Fifth and the related move V for Vendetta so different, impactful and successful, I wish people would understand that, in the end it comes down to advertising and it's impact on viewers. The follow Tea Party date followed the same revolutionary spirit which motivated not only those that had a rebellious lean to them and provided a great gimmick edge to the advertising on the web in also brought out those patriotic individuals that never heard of V for Vendetta or don't follow pop culture, in the end you know the results. It's unfortunate that such days get taken away from us from outside forces, timing is everything.

I think those were two different issues she was raising.

If you are right about the gimmick for the moneybombs, what do you think about the upcoming Black This Out mb? Do you think that will work? If so, let's make it the biggest and best moneybomb in the history of all moneybombs!!! :D But, that is going to take a lot of hard work by a lot of people. I think that is one of the things that Monique is trying to encourage.

[Monique]

Oren, I agree that dates are important, but I think it has more to do with marketing than the actual date. The Black this Out moneybomb is getting support because people like the concept of protecting Ron. Another group is marketing that same date as The Moneybomb to Surpass all Other Moneybombs. People like that concept too. At least they are both on the same date, so no matter which phrase is used, all the money will be donated on one day.

I am frustrated as can be because I used to come to these forums and find people who were just begging to help and willing to do whatever was asked of them. In one day we came up with the money bomb idea, we all worked together to spread the concept and in two weeks this whole place was full of people saying where and how they were promoting the idea. The main forum was full of threads with people all doing the same thing.

Now, however, people are working on 5 MBs at once. They are refusing to focus on one at a time and I am seeing people say that they are going to support one or the other. People are being bombarded with moneybombs every other day. Instead of 100 people working on one, we have 100 people working on 100 different things.

Worse, I have seen some things that have driven away people. Smutty pictures, attacks on Christianity, attacks on Israel, and then there is the plain ole calling people names.

It is like the situation with the middle east...if we think they are attacking us because of our freedoms, we have no way to win...they will always hate us. To continue with the analogy, if we think that we are doing so poorly because it is a bad economy and ignoring all the cruel, hateful things that are driving people away, we won't be able to do anything to turn it around.

Remember, it would be illogical for other candidates NOT to have infiltrated this site with the goal of keeping us fractured and ineffective. I know it is pretty easy to keep us fractured because we are very independent people, but we can't let them do that to us.

I can't tell you how many times I have come over here and begged people to help me with the BTO moneybomb....begged. I haven't had anyone help at all. When I tried to help the Constitution day mb, I got attacked and told I was an imbecile. I was offering to help, offering suggestions, and I got attacked! How can we get anywhere if any of us allow that to happen?

[Monique]

All I want is some ideas for how to spread the word about the BTO bomb, and some people to help implement those plans. With Myspace last time we had ways of finding out the direct email address of Ron's "friends" on that site and we all would mail out requests to them. The requests were personal and did well. WE also had cool videos spreading the date. I am sending out 1000 messages a day for the BTO mb. Does anyone have any other ideas?

[orenbus]

If you are right about the gimmick for the moneybombs, what do you think about the upcoming Black This Out mb? Do you think that will work?

If you really want my honest opinion I think it will be as successful as this last money bomb and potentially less so. I love the web site and some of the work people have done around the money bomb however the date is arbitrary (not grounded to any referring date in history), not associated with any cultural reference, it does have a sense of rebelling against mass media which keeps us in the dark, which is a good concept to work with for the money bomb. However there are a few connecting tissue pieces that are missing to make it as good as previous money bombs.

[The Bavarian]

attacks on Christianity, attacks on Israel

I don't think it's attacks as much as it is a simple difference of opinion. For example I do not like Isreal, I do not like the concept of Isreal, and I sure as hell do not like the attitude of Isreal. You may disagree, that's normal. That's why people are called individuals, individuality is the pinnacle of freedom.

As for the trillions of moneybombs going on I personally don't see a problem considering all of their money gets combined and put to the same cause, Ron Paul.

I am sorry to hear about people not helping you or refusing to allow you to help in their MB.

[LibertyEagle]

I don't think it's attacks as much as it is a simple difference of opinion. For example I do not like Isreal, I do not like the concept of Isreal, and I sure as hell do not like the attitude of Isreal. You may disagree, that's normal. That's why people are called individuals, individuality is the pinnacle of freedom.

Bavarian, I think what she is saying is that we need to keep our eyes on the prize, which is helping Dr. Paul win the Republican nomination.

Just because each of us have certain feelings for or against the Israeli government, the Iran government and everything in between, does not mean we have to interject it when we are campaigning for Ron Paul, or doing anything at all associated with Ron Paul, for that matter. It's probably a good thing if we don't run people off from Ron Paul because of our own personal beliefs, right?

[orenbus]

Instead of 100 people working on one, we have 100 people working on 100 different things.

Yea this was an argument was made a few months ago when the debate was going on as far as what money bombs should be supported on the forum and a general consensus of scheduling with the idea of having at most one money bomb per month. Some thought that was even too much that we did very well with having money bombs have time for buildup as we did with the Fifth of November. And as you mentioned our resources would be stretched thin across many projects as opposed to supporting larger projects. But then others said well after the Fifth of November we were able to put together the Tea Party MB in about a months time and get the advertising out there in 2007. Finally I remember one person making the argument, and I'm paraphrasing:

"So what if we have a bunch of money bombs does it really matter if we have large amounts raised on only a couple days versus having the money spread out over many days the campaign will still get the same amount of money and possibly earlier so they can do some things with it that they wouldn't be able to do if they had to wait."

Others mentioned:

"We will not get the same free press from large money bombs as we did in 2007 as the flare of the concept has burned out unless we raise more than Tea Party 2007 which would be difficult to do except maybe on that date."

Of course there were counter argument debates around those sentiments as well.

[Monique]

The problem I see Bavarian is that we are getting less and less money for the MBs as the campaign goes on, not more and more. And the number one thing for us to do to win is get Ron money. Last time in one day we had over 6 million. We can do that if people will work to promote this thing.

Instead, as you can see from my pleas, no one is giving any suggestions, no one is doing any work, except me and the people who started it. I am going to be busy the next few weeks.

Regarding Israel, or any other hot topic, I don't think our personal opinions will help Ron Paul get elected. I think our personal opinions might offend some people and they might leave the forums and never come back. Therefore, I see no upside in discussing things like that and I see a whole lot of downside.

For now, I am tired after being up all night.

[LibertyEagle]

//

[RonPaulFever]

Am I willing to get Ron Paul elected? Yes.

Am I willing to be lectured and bossed around like a child? Absolutely not.

[LibertyEagle]

I think you are missing the point, RonPaulFever. But, whatever.

[RonPaulFever]

I think you are missing the point, RonPaulFever. But, whatever.

The point was entirely clear. Monique has contributed a lot to the movement and I'm grateful she's out there doing her thing, but she needs to stop being so pushy. When someone with no authority starts telling others what they should and shouldn't say, I immediately tune out. I understand the message but it's being delivered the wrong way.

[TheTyke]

I agree with the OP... we cannot win people over by bashing them even if we are right, and it's simply impossible to win elections by alienating voters. Or, as she points out, by offensive or childish attitudes on the boards which are the first public contact for many researching Ron Paul. And I too get upset when the hard work and money put in is undermined by that kind of behavior. We should remember always we are ambassadors for Dr. Paul, and every public action we take reflects on his campaign. This has made me drive more carefully, be more polite. Even if it takes a lot of restraint sometimes, this is what we need to do if we are serious about winning.

Moneybombs are another topic though. We're doing fine on that really, and getting the campaign plenty of seed money. More is always better of course, but I don't think there are any big flaws.

[gaetano]

I agree that we are not winning....but for reasons other than what OP states.

The reason why we are not winning is because the media deliberately marginalizes Ron Paul and his message.
It's really that simple.

If Ron got half the air time and respect that Romney/Perry gets, he'd be way out in front no matter what some of his more zealous followers did or said.

The only shot we have is to raise enough money for a blistering TV attack ad campaign and Ron Paul infomercials.

[gerryb]

The only shot we have is to raise enough money for a blistering TV attack ad campaign and Ron Paul infomercials.

I disagree.

What would have more of an impact with you?
1) If you saw an advertisement on TV
2A) If you had a volunteer show up to your door, ask you what your top 2 issues were, and give you literature on those top two issue, then asked for your vote?
2B) Same as two A, but instead of a volunteer at your door, it was a phone call

I think 2A and 2B are both worlds more effective.

[LibertyEsq]

Drama seems counterproductive to me.

[eleganz]

For those that swear by Ron Paul's message of Mutually Assured Respect vs Mutual Assured Destruction, should really put that in practice, sometimes it is hard when we hear people really go below the belt but we should still be trying our best to know when to walk away from a heated argument or know when it isn't going anywhere and choose to never engage.

[TheTexan]

For those that swear by Ron Paul's message of Mutually Assured Respect vs Mutual Assured Destruction, should really put that in practice, sometimes it is hard when we hear people really go below the belt but we should still be trying our best to know when to walk away from a heated argument or know when it isn't going anywhere and choose to never engage.

The vast majority of us are very respectful to others. We encourage everyone to be polite & respectful when talking to non-supporters, but unfortunately there's this thing called the 1st amendment and some people will act like an idiot anyway ... damned 1st amendment!

[D.A.S.]

We're attacking the wrong people here -- ourselves. We need to channel that energy into promoting Ron's message.

Please don't let bumps in the road turn us against ourselves.

Moneybombs are tricky this time around because the economy is so bad. It's tougher and tougher to get money. It's just that simple. And the novelty of it has worn off. But I refuse to believe we're not doing well. The birthday moneybomb got about 2 Million... This money bomb got about 1 Million. And they aren't too far apart. Then there was Ames. A lot of people really support Ron but don't believe in donating. Others are unemployed or struggling. We can't be expecting too much right now.

[idiom]

Am I willing to get Ron Paul elected? Yes.

Am I willing to be lectured and bossed around like a child? Absolutely not.

Responding to negative external stimuli in a calm manner is the mark of an adult. Being able to calmly and quietly respond to someone who is obviously incorrect in such a way as to change their minds is the mark of a statesman.

[orenbus]

I disagree.

What would have more of an impact with you?
1) If you saw an advertisement on TV
2A) If you had a volunteer show up to your door, ask you what your top 2 issues were, and give you literature on those top two issue, then asked for your vote?
2B) Same as two A, but instead of a volunteer at your door, it was a phone call

I think 2A and 2B are both worlds more effective.

In a perfect world 2A would be most effective, unfortunately we don't live in that world. It would mean that at least 5-10% of the population of the United States (not just likely voters) would be Ron Paul supporters and more importantly that they would be willing to go door to door so that we would cover the other 90-95% of at least likely voters. The numbers that it would take to do that would be enormous.

I'll give you an example and before I go into detail I should point out that this furthers the argument as to why we should be spending a good portion of the campaign budget on bussing in volunteers into NH and covering housing. But here we go:

New Hampshire example:

2008 Republican results-
John McCain 88,571 -- 37.71%
Mitt Romney 75,546 -- 32.17%
Mike Huckabee 26,859 -- 11.44%
Rudy Giuliani 20,439 -- 8.7%
Ron Paul 18,308 -- 7.8%

2000 Republican results-
John Mccain 115,490 -- 49%
George Bush 72,262 -- 30%
Steve Forbes 30,197 -- 13%

Okay so going by this lets say generally speaking that Republicans and Independents that have voted in the last two Republican Primaries in NH total around 230,000 people give or take a few thousand. So in order to go door to door for 230,000 people how many volunteers in NH do you think that would take and over what time frame? Having done door to door in NH in 2007 I can tell you after doing 50 houses over the course of a day it starts to become tiring even if you are in great shape, but lets say a volunteer does a fifty houses a day. Do you expect the volunteer to do it 7 days a week or will you ask they they do it only on the weekends since they have jobs they need to take care of during the week? Would you demand they do it every weekend giving up time with family and friends? Lets say a typical volunteer in NH will have a job so say if he/she is really dedicated while maintaining a job they will be able to cover maybe 50 houses per week. So lets say they started this week and the Primary ends up being in February (although we all know it will get pushed into December but for the sake of argument) that would give the volunteer 20 weeks.

20 weeks x 50 houses/week = 1000 houses

We'll be extremely generous and say that the volunteer is able to convince 20% of those people to vote for Ron Paul even though anyone that has canvassed before would say this is unrealistic and that canvassing requires identification first and then follow up. But yea lets go with 20% so that gives that volunteer:

200 votes

How many volunteers do you think in NH will go door to door? Some have said that there were thousands that showed up at the NH office opening and follow up events, of course not all these people will be dedicated or will be able to go door to door so we will say 500 hard core volunteers in NH will go door to door for 20 weeks and hit 50 houses per week and will be able to convince 20% of those people that gives us:

100,000 votes.

This most likely would give us a win in NH which is great! This is exactly what is needed. Ok so what's the problem? The problem is and I'm sure people who are doing phone banks right now in NH can chime in and let us know, are there currently 500 volunteers hitting 50 houses per week or are they planning to in the near future? Do we even have anywhere near 500 people phone banking right now? over 250? over 100? over 50? Knowing and having seen NH last election cycle I'm going to guess no. It's a small state and although it doesn't take many to make a huge change there are not many to begin with that are die hard volunteers willing to commit to this. Heck I would be shocked to find out if 80% percent of the people on this forum would do anything more than just donate money, post on forums, send out emails and instant message and possibly post a video along with vote on this forum. Boots on the ground are critical but at the same time every campaign including ours does not have enough to cover the work that is needed.

So where does that leave us? Back to traditional media, having to raise funds for commercials that will cover the amount of people that our lack of boots on the ground will get to. My example above also shows that with fundraising if a campaign wanted to get a strong lead by strategically getting some hard core volunteers up to NH, the potential could be of major impact in a presidential campaign, of course this hinges on the effectiveness of those volunteering to convince the voters of NH, but that again is supported by your argument of what would have a lasting effect.

So yes you are correct 2A is most effective if it were realistic, unfortunately without the campaign or some outside force like a Super PAC covering the expenses to get additional volunteers into key states its impossible. What would be more realistic is having touched those 95% of the electorate through traditional media that would not otherwise know that Ron Paul is even running.

Of course nothing happens in a vacuum and it is the synergy of multiple elements that tend to convince people who they should vote for. In that spirit if you are in NH I strongly urge you to get in touch with the official campaign to help with the GOTV activities in that crucial state, for more info check out my signature.

[rambone]

I agree with the OP. This is our one chance to make history, or blow it.

I am totally into controversial stuff, and conspiracies. However, when I am in public, and on my public Facebook account, I keep it clean, respectful, and with one single goal. TO GET OUT THE RON PAUL VOTE!!

And you know what, I have converted a lot of people. I was out walking around a local festival today, campaigning. Ask yourself what you have done? Anything productive for this cause?

I advise you guys to get motivated and do the same. Don't wait around for a leader to hold your hand and do it for you. Buy t-shirts for you and your friends. Order business cards to pass out in public. Talk to strangers. Burn DVDS to give out. Rent a booth at a gun show or a festival. Go door to door. Plaster your town with signs. DO SOMETHING! There is no time to procrastinate! Light a fire under yourself today. There will be no second chances on this. There will be plenty of time to sit around and do nothing when we are locked in the FEMA camps.

[Akus]

Monique, I have to disagree with you.

You are saying that many ppl won't vote for RP, because his supporters are nasty and judgmental. Some may be are. But the problem is with the non-supporters. If someone says absolutely insipidly stupid about RP, I can see why a die-hard RP supporter could fly off his handle and make another enemy. But at the same time, why bother reasoning with idiots who will simply find another reason to vote for Obama or Bachmann?

I am all for spreading the word, but we have to pick our battles. You could spend hours defending RP to some idiot, only to get him to sit at home when it really matters. Or you could be critical of yourself and ask if RP has become your religion instead of a presidential candidate. Campaign for liberty is about personal transformation, too, I'll have you know.

No, we don't need EVERYONE supporting RP, just the people you know you can reach and you know will vote in primaries. These are old evangelical Christians, not anarchists or secessionists or 9/11 truthers (no offense). And even then, you have to really cherry pick you battles.

I talk about RP. I don't wear that on my sleeve and I don't beat people with RP over their head. I always answer their question if their interest is piqued (spelling?). But I am also looking at myself. I want the government to be solvent. Am I solvent? No? Well then what right do I have to preach about solvency? I build on that.

You do what you want with this.

[Chainspell]

you cant motivate people by telling people to get motivated it never works. thats my mantra. instead of everyone telling people to get motivated, just tell people what needs to be done. And by ranting on the problem of how to motivate people you actually sap your energy from actually motivating people, it's like it feeds on the problem itself.

You motivate people by your heartfelt actions not with words telling them they should be motivated. It simply never works.

[kuckfeynes]

Different strategies for different people. OP's strategy is appropriate for a certain demographic. Maybe older, churchgoing, set in their ways folks. But if hers was the only strategy employed, I wouldn't be here right now, and I'd probably still have a D next to my registration, complaining about "the rich," spouting egalitarian BS and insisting that Bush had 8 years to ruin everything so Obama needs 8 years to fix it. It was the anger and passion from supporters I responded to that caused me to dig deeper. Stuff that the former category might have found extreme or even offensive. You can lose any game by playing too aggressively or too timidly, either way a lost vote is a lost vote. You just have to know your audience.

[Monique]

Orem!!!! I just heard....We have the best date in history here!!!! Did you know that on Oct. 19th, 1781 the British surrendered and we won the Revolutionary war!! The BLACK THIS OUT moneybomb can also be marketed as THE REVOLUTIONARY DAY MONEY BOMB TO WIN THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION!!! Ok...that might be a little wordy...but I leave it to you to say it better. That is a fantastic day!!!!!! And with all the hard work we have all done, we almost have 1000 people who are attending the facebook event! http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=181997088537471

[Monique]

To the rest...here is a typical question: why bother reasoning with idiots who will simply find another reason to vote for Obama or Bachmann.. Why? Because WE CANNOT WIN with the number of Ron Paul supporters we have now. We MUST GET MORE. WE NEED SOME of those people to change their allegiance and support Ron. I can talk Dems into voting for Ron in the primaries by arguing that they should have some say over who runs against Obama and find common ground with them in our mutual distaste for having Perry as the candidate. If Michelle ever drops out of the race, those supporters will go somewhere and if we are nice to them now we can get them later.

And remember, there are tens of thousands of lurkers who just watch comments flying back and forth and never say a word....we need those people to be on our side too.

Kuck, I am not saying that we shouldn't be passionate. I am not saying we shouldn't express our anger at the current political situation. I am saying that we shouldn't curse people out if they don't agree with us, and we shouldn't attack each other. No one will listen to a word you say after you call them an idiot or a really horrible curse word. No one. I would suspect if someone told you that you were the scum of the earth (or something much worse...I am trying to keep this comment clean here) and deserved to die for being a traitor if you mentioned you were a dem, you wouldn't have have wanted to dig deeper.

I do agree that you have to know your audience. That is an excellent point. Each group has different things that will attract them to Ron. It is up to us to know Ron's policies well so that we can reach those people the most effective way.

But, I think you miss what I am responding to....on my wall the other day, some poor girl came over and said she thought Ron was an idiot. In 15 seconds she had a handful of people calling her names that would make a sailor blush...names I can't even repeat here. All because she said she didn't like Ron. I apologized to her, got her on an IM and talked to her for an hour. Guess what? She haates the Fed, the hates the wars, she is terrified of inflation, she is against corporatism, and she turned out to be a Ron Paul supporter, she just didn't know it. That is the kind of thing I am talking about. I saw a Herman Cain supporter talk about how he was accosted on the street by Ron Paul supporters because he had a Herman Cain sticker on his car. WTF?? I am talking about that indefensible stuff. I have seen people suggest that we all go to Michelle's page and spam the hell out of it just to annoy her supporters and SHOW THEM. That kind of stuff will lose Ron tons of votes and most likely comes from the anti-paul crowd that is trying to get us to shoot Ron's chances. I am not talking about the level of passion that attracted you Kuck...that is wonderful. And all your points were good ones.

[Monique]

@Akus....I am also not saying that any time we hear that someone doesn't want to vote for Ron we should try to change their mind. I agree with you. I was saying that we must stop people from attacking them. I don't think the people doing those horrible things are really Ron Paul supporters. I think they are enemies who spend a lot of time going on blogs trying to make Ron look bad. A lot of people are noticing this more and more. It seems to be the new strategy, and we have to stop it. The only way to do that is to ignore the nasty poster, and address the people watching the forum and let them know that those enemies don't speak for Ron or for any of us. If we just ignore it, they win. They are very sneaky and they are organized, but they do their best to never let you know it.

We cannot afford to let them steal our one hope. You KNOW the big corps are terrified of Ron and will do anything they can to stop him from winning. But it really doesn't matter what the motivation is....if we don't stop that kind of stuff from happening we will lose the election. I am not telling people what to do, I am telling people what to do if they want Ron to be elected President.

[eleganz]

Sometimes it is just being civilized and leading by example that get other people to think. Proving people wrong or talking over them doesn't exactly make them happy.

In the end we gotta practice Mutually Assured Respect vs Mutually Assured Destruction just like Ron Paul says.

[Akus]

To the rest...here is a typical question: why bother reasoning with idiots who will simply find another reason to vote for Obama or Bachmann.. Why? Because WE CANNOT WIN with the number of Ron Paul supporters we have now......
I can't agree. If we actually showed up at the primaries, all of RP supporters, ALL of them, we could actually do that. I still vividly remember 2008 and how abysmally we did even though there were sign waves and all the "young people" were gay for RP. I remember how Iowa was royally sabotaged and Huckabee won that.

No, we cannot spam pages of Michelle Bachman, or hack Mitt Romney's campaign site. Anyone who does this needs to have a nice cereal bowl of broken glass with a nice coffee mug of liquid nitrogen to wash it down.

But we can't turn this thing into religion. Ron Paul may lose, yes, there is a chance of that. I don't want this, but, should it happen, I won't throw myself into the oncoming traffic. There are plenty of ways to "stick it to the man".

[Chainspell]

Are you willing to get Ron elected if that means you might have to ignore baiters who say horrible things about Ron Paul? Are you willing to get Ron elected if that means not doing one thing that will hurt Ron or make him look bad.

This country is in a hell of a mess. We are all headed for some horrible times if we don't get Ron elected. You can expect your standard of living to drop drop drop...you can expect your dollar to drop drop drop and you can expect your liberty and freedom to drop drop drop unless we get a man who is a longshot to win.

Despite our ability to swarm online polls, the truth is Ron Paul is not in the lead. Ron isn't in second. I don't know where he is but he is absolutely an underdog right now. In order for an underdog to win, we can't be doing anything that will cost him even one vote, because that could be whole election. We don't have thousands of people who are willing to work their asses off for projects, we have a few. We don't have a vote to spare. This isn't drama, these are cold hard facts.

I am sick to death of the way this country is being run. I am scared for my family, and I don't find this issue to be a light hearted topic. I think we are in deep trouble people. Now, when I hear someone say that they don't give a damn if they offend someone and lose Ron a vote because that person is too fickle anyway, I see red.

When I see people saying that they have the right to be offensive and that we should all lighten up I am horrified.

I don't get why people are defending the practice of running off people who might become hard working supporters, or running off even one voter. Who are you and what agenda are you promoting? Is this selfish stupidity or intentional sabotage?

I am very sorry Josh and Brian, I know you have worked your asses off for this site. But, I feel that during the campaign this site should change from a place that is for liberty minded people to say whatever they want, to a site that is focused solely on getting Ron elected. Otherwise, why not call it the liberty place, or freedom forum? But if it is called the Ron Paul forums like it or not everything done on this site directly reflects on Ron.

I see no difference between a statist that is out to steal my money with someone who would rather have fun venting disrespectful garbage that will steal our candidate from us.

We ARE BEHIND PEOPLE!!! RON IS NOT WINNING. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BE "free" right now to do whatever the hell we want. Go scream about Zionism after the election, post all the toilet humor you want after Ron is president. Tell any other supporters they are too ignorant to deserve a decent after the election. In the meantime, STOP IT!!!!

RON CANNOT WIN WITHOUT US DOING ALL WE CAN TO HELP HIM AND NOTHING AT ALL THAT COULD POSSIBLY HURT HIM. I will repeat that....Ron cannot win if we do not do all we can to help him and nothing that could possibly hurt him. Obama and Perry and Romney may have supporters who are lucky enough to have wiggle room to go around making them look bad by attacking people all over blogs. WE do not. If you give a damn about getting Ron elected you will know I am right. You have a choice...be selfish and get your rocks off or clean up your act, be kind to people, and be grateful as hell for anyone who will vote for Ron for any bad reason at all.

And YES people, your behavior does reflect on Ron. Currently, a great deal of people think he is crazy and some of them think that because of the actions of his supporters. Say what you want, but that is a fact. I read every day how people DESPISE Ron's supporters and will never vote for him because of US. Sure, other candidates have nasty supporters too. Sure, we are called insane, and stupid and worse for supporting Ron. But so what???? The point is to save our country from total destruction, not defend ourselves from some twit.

Imagine this exchange:

O supporter: Ron Paul is a crazy old loon who hates the poor and has stupid libertarian ideas that got us into this financial mess in the first place.

RP supporter response: OS...YOU ARE A STUPID COW WHO DESERVES TO DIE. I HOPE YOU ROT IN A HELL OF YOUR OWN DESIGN FOR CHOOSING YOUR CANDIDATE. WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION YOU IGNORANT MORON.


vs.

O supporter: Ron Paul is a crazy old loon who hates the poor and has stupid libertarian ideas that got us into this financial mess in the first place.

RP supporter: What ideas of his do you find stupid? I happen to be a big fan of Ron's because his policies will actually help the poor. It may counter intuitive to think that minimum wages make people poorer, but let me explain how that is. ....

Which scenario is more likely to gain Ron votes?

And keep in mind, you many never win the support of the OP, but you may pick up a vote or 10 or 100 or more from the lurkers who are reading your exchange. Let them sound like the crazy ones, the nasty disrespectful assholes. WE NEED THE VOTES!!!!! We can only get the votes if we tell people Ron's positions and they are open to hearing them.
This strategy takes a lot of selflessness. We need to turn the other cheek rather than punch back. We need to keep our opinions to ourselves because there is no reason why anything I think about abortion one way or the other should have any bearing on Dr. Paul.

Or do you think I am wrong and are you going to defend any action that will lose us a vote? You do know that we need votes from people who don't totally love Ron, we need votes from people who are fickle and might leave for any reason. We need votes from EVERYONE and we can't afford to offend ANYONE. Are you willing to give up ranting for a few months if it will help Ron?
I simply do not get this?? where is she seeing all this crap? the more she is saying it the more threads Im reading about it. its like propaganda becoming reality? what the hell is this?

[HeyArchie]

Use the Golden Rule, but don't back down from your convictions. There's a stark difference between being passionate and being rude. The people too simple-minded to EVER understand why the world acts the way it does do not understand this difference. They see passion as rudeness. It happens to me all the time on issues political and non-political. People are so concerned with being politically correct and I'm honestly sick of it. That's not the way the world works. Get over it. With that being said, in order to win something like a political nomination political correctness obviously comes into play. While I hate pandering and kissing ass, some of it has to be done in order to win the nomination.

In other words, get the hell off your high horse and pretend like you don't think your IQ is 100 points higher than the person you're speaking/arguing with. While, I agree with OP in some ways, I have yet to see an RP supporter act in the way she has described. I've actually seen quite more of the opposition acting in such a way, so I find this correlation with RP supporters and rudeness frustrating. There are, I'm sure, rogue RP supporters who have their heads too far up their asses that they don't know what's actually good for the campaign... but, I believe those are few and far between.

Bottom line, as I said at the beginning of this post: Treat others as you would want to be treated, stand strong in your convictions, and forget about what YOU believe. Explain to people what Ron Paul believes and how it would benefit America. And stop internalizing this war. It should be a war on the establishment and the idea of big government. Kill them with kindness and act like RP would: with mutually assured respect.

[LibertyEagle]

I simply do not get this?? where is she seeing all this crap? the more she is saying it the more threads Im reading about it. its like propaganda becoming reality? what the hell is this?

She is not making it up, I assure you. She's just reminding people that we will not win anyone over with those techniques.

[ForLiberty2012]

I do agree that we all need to take things seriously and never chase away a vote. I've personally seen that on here... I disagreed with Ron on one issue and people made personal attacks on me and tried to run me outa here. Luckily my skin was thick enough and I didn't take anything to heart... but it does happen... here and other places on the Internet where ron paul supporters live up to the "crazy" stereotype which is counterproductive for Dr. Paul.

Thanks for the post op... despite what people are saying people do need to be reminded of our main goal... getting Ron Paul elected!

[aravoth]

I simply do not get this?? where is she seeing all this crap? the more she is saying it the more threads Im reading about it. its like propaganda becoming reality? what the hell is this?

People closest to the problem never tend to see it.

Monique is correct, this has become a problem, not a small one either.

[Chainspell]

from what I gather she is basically telling people to stop treating the forum like a forum. We are thriving in popularity and the OP is finding it hard to embrace the diversity. What she says is so contradicting "dont express your opinions" then she says "dont jump on people when they express their opinions".. what??? I agree that we should treat other people with respect especially the new people. But she's saying we should limit our opinions and what we say. She's saying "are you willing to give up ranting for a few months" and yet if you view her post history she has been ranting and ranting.

This is a forum and people see that, people will recognize it, give them some credit. You know after someone has their eyes opened for the first time to Ron Paul and the corruption of this government it's really hard to turn back. They may be offended by something they read here but they will never stop supporting Ron Paul. Besides it's a forum and people know it.

Trying to make a forum act the way you want it to act is a bit unrealistic and a little bit control freakish. Let the forums thrive!! Don't give up liberty just so we can get some temporary safety. That's how im reading her post. She's saying let's sacrifice free speech so we can be sure that no one gets offended. Control freakish to me.

[jmdrake]

+rep.


from what I gather she is basically telling people to stop treating the forum like a forum. We are thriving in popularity and the OP is finding it hard to embrace the diversity. What she says is so contradicting "dont express your opinions" then she says "dont jump on people when they express their opinions".. what??? I agree that we should treat other people with respect especially the new people. But she's saying we should limit our opinions and what we say. She's saying "are you willing to give up ranting for a few months" and yet if you view her post history she has been ranting and ranting.

This is a forum and people see that, people will recognize it, give them some credit. You know after someone has their eyes opened for the first time to Ron Paul and the corruption of this government it's really hard to turn back. They may be offended by something they read here but they will never stop supporting Ron Paul. Besides it's a forum and people know it.

Trying to make a forum act the way you want it to act is a bit unrealistic and a little bit control freakish. Let the forums thrive!! Don't give up liberty just so we can get some temporary safety. That's how im reading her post. She's saying let's sacrifice free speech so we can be sure that no one gets offended. Control freakish to me.

[LibertyEagle]

People closest to the problem never tend to see it.

Monique is correct, this has become a problem, not a small one either.

Yup.

[harikaried]

She's saying "are you willing to give up ranting for a few months" and yet if you view her post history she has been ranting and ranting.And her rants are to increase productivity of the campaign and grassroots.

Her point is that ranting tends to be destructive especially in the context of getting Ron Paul supporters. And if the point is that we're all here to help Ron Paul get elected, that type of behavior needs to be put on hold or at least not in front of those that are open to learning about Ron Paul.

[Birdlady]

Monique I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you. However I think the way you came about this was wrong. You are doing what you are telling others not to do. You are yelling at those who are not agreeing with your way of doing things, sort of like how some RP supporters are screaming at non-supporters. You are worried about infighting? You have just caused some with this thread because you have put people on the defense. You never want to put someone on the defense if you want them to see from your point of view.

The title of your thread also suggests that some of us are here to make RP lose? I highly doubt that's what is going through anyone's mind here. I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be a great idea or something, but instead it was a mental beating. I see others felt the same way.

I'm not excusing anyone's behavior and we all should think twice before we react, but there's no way we can control everyone or change everyone. On the internet there is no accountability, so they are more likely to be rude. There's really nothing we can do about it unfortunately. You just have to be responsible for yourself and help out where you can. If others aren't willing to help, well then that's just the way it is I guess. Are you familiar with the 20-80 rule? There are many versions of it, but here I'd say 20% of people do 80% of the work.

This thread could have been approached in a better way to get more positive results. "Hey guys I'm concerned about some of the things I've seen online. Let's just make sure we are friendly with non-supporters so we can get them to vote for RP in the primary!".

What you did is talk down to all of us. In other words, I agree with both sides of the argument on this one...

As a friend, I will say that I was just like you in 2007. I put all of my energy into this and I'm letting you know to be careful doing that. You will likely crash and burn with all of the expectations you have set.

[pacelli]

It goes back to Bradley_in_DC's post at the beginning of that last campaign, essentially saying that by being a Ron Paul supporter, you represent Ron Paul to all voters. Your actions will be scrutinized.

Cut somebody off or tailgate somebody and you've got your Ron Paul sticker on your car? Think about it.

[Birdlady]

It goes back to Bradley_in_DC's post at the beginning of that last campaign, essentially saying that by being a Ron Paul supporter, you represent Ron Paul to all voters. Your actions will be scrutinized.

Cut somebody off or tailgate somebody and you've got your Ron Paul sticker on your car? Think about it.

There is only so much a person can do though and you have completely unrealistic expectations. This type of thinking is quite scary to me because now you must be this perfect citizen? No one is perfect here at all. Not even you. I'm sure you have pissed someone off when driving and did not realize it.

Sure use common sense and don't be a jerk, but now if you are tailgating someone it's a reflection of RP? Some of you are just being ridiculous.:eek:

[Steve-in-NY]

Im down. I have been finding my comfort demographic and catering specifically to it.
Im not loud
Im not pushy
Im not offensive
I dont curse
I present myself well (groomed/dressed accordingly)
Im brief
Im polite
I avoid controversy

It works. Im finding supporters, even converting some over.
So far Im up to 6 supporters and 3 more that are willing to put in some work for the campaign.
Its not much but if we can all do this -well ...


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PGvSoaafXiI/SZ3y2r3JGMI/AAAAAAAAFcg/7zsNxOQx7DI/s400/science-stand-back.bmp

The Law of Diffusion of Innovation states:
You must have 15-18% market penetration to have mass acceptance of an idea - its where the system "tips".

Right now, we are showing around 13% in our best polls. Simply getting ONE (1) more supporter YOURSELF can give us 20% literally overnight, which tips the scales and begins the mass acceptance. It also gives momentum.

Watch for the magic number:
FF to 11:07 -
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action.html

Just do your very best, and maybe a little better. We are all in this for the same goal - so lets just accomplish that goal and not mess with anyone trying to also accomplish that goal.

Thanks all.
Later

[Chainspell]

Monique I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you. However I think the way you came about this was wrong. You are doing what you are telling others not to do. You are yelling at those who are not agreeing with your way of doing things, sort of like how some RP supporters are screaming at non-supporters. You are worried about infighting? You have just caused some with this thread because you have put people on the defense. You never want to put someone on the defense if you want them to see from your point of view.

The title of your thread also suggests that some of us are here to make RP lose? I highly doubt that's what is going through anyone's mind here. I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be a great idea or something, but instead it was a mental beating. I see others felt the same way.

I'm not excusing anyone's behavior and we all should think twice before we react, but there's no way we can control everyone or change everyone. On the internet there is no accountability, so they are more likely to be rude. There's really nothing we can do about it unfortunately. You just have to be responsible for yourself and help out where you can. If others aren't willing to help, well then that's just the way it is I guess. Are you familiar with the 20-80 rule? There are many versions of it, but here I'd say 20% of people do 80% of the work.

This thread could have been approached in a better way to get more positive results. "Hey guys I'm concerned about some of the things I've seen online. Let's just make sure we are friendly with non-supporters so we can get them to vote for RP in the primary!".

What you did is talk down to all of us. In other words, I agree with both sides of the argument on this one...

As a friend, I will say that I was just like you in 2007. I put all of my energy into this and I'm letting you know to be careful doing that. You will likely crash and burn with all of the expectations you have set.

A big + rep. You put into words so easily what I was struggling to say. I think that's what offended me the most about the OP post is she was talking down to everybody. But I don't agree with the last part about limiting or pacing your energy, let people crash and burn if they like lol. But even tho we disagree on that we know each other from other threads, that little differences becomes a non issue.

[Birdlady]

A big + rep. You put into words so easily what I was struggling to say. I think that's what offended me the most about the OP post is she was talking down to everybody. But I don't agree with the last part about limiting or pacing your energy, let people crash and burn if they like lol. But even tho we disagree on that we know each other from other threads, that little differences becomes a non issue.

My last sentence was meant specifically for the OP. :) I feel in the OP's posts is desperation, anger, resentment and the beginning of a huge emotional crash, where she will begin to lash out at everyone and everything that isn't doing it her way. Why do I know this? Because that was me in 2007. I have learned from my errors this time around. hahah

When I was digusted with everything, I didn't do anything politically for nearly 4 years. If I had better paced myself and not get too emotionally attached to everything I did during the RP campaign, this wouldn't have happened. That's where I feel the OP is heading. She will become so discouraged and take it out on the very cause she is trying to help.

No hard feelings of course. :) We aren't going to agree all the time!

[JohnGalt23g]

To answer the original question, Am I willing to get Ron Paul elected?:

Yes, I am willing to get him elected. But I would prefer if he seized power in a ruthless coup d'etat, in which the hearts of his enemies were devoured by Matt Collins.

/do I really nned a sarc tag

...and with apologies to the Collins, who I am reasonably sure does not eat human flesh or organs...

[orenbus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njGE8u2gMQs

[Monique]

Birdlady, I thank you for worrying about me, but I am fine. Aravoth, Liberty Eagle, Pacelli, and I all see the same problem. As Aravoth said, it is not small.

I have started telling the cursers that their behavior is not welcome on my facebook page. At first they were stunned and shocked that anyone would dare say something to them. Then, suddenly, tons of people started thanking me for being the one person to tell them to behave. Post after post came on saying the same thing...thank you for saying something...I was afraid to say a word. Guess what? The obnoxious posters that were Ron supporters backed down, apologized, and now THEY are telling others to be polite. It spreads. The infiltrators, the people who work for other campaigns, tried very hard to rile everyone up, but they were being heckled so much for being rude, they finally left.

WE can make a difference in how people behave.

You know we have a forum here called Hot Topics. I met a newcomer the other day who thought that section was for the latest and newest topics...the hottest topics. They were stunned and offended by things they thought were normal topics for discussion. We forget how we appear to others.

Sorry, Bird, and chainspell, but reality is reality. People's actions DO affect Ron Paul. As Pacelli said...if you cut someone off with a Ron Paul sticker on your car it does have a negative effect on Ron. You can wish that wasn't the case, but it is. And you are wrong that our actions can't change people. They really can. This is all social networking and social pressure has an effect. We need it to for Ron to win. More importantly, we need people to be polite to each other on here because we need the help! Last go around at this time, we had tons of people on the forums. If anyone came up with an idea, there were people all over willing to help. We DID a lot. I don't see that sort of enthusiasm this time.

I am pointing out something that is hurting Ron and hurting this forum and hurting our chances to win. If you attack me for doing that, then you are attacking all of us. Because all I am saying is what has to happen for Ron to win. He will not win if his supporters run around and attack people. He will not win if the hard workers are driven off by people who think it is cool to be rude. He will not win if people ignore this growing problem and tell others to ignore it too. We are not winning and we cannot repeat the same mistakes and expect different results.

[Monique]

Orem...the video you posted says removed by user.

[hubze]

Here is an idea...why are we so worried about going door to door...I mean that is great for like selling books but we have a thing called Facebook. What about an initiative where we send 10 people a message every day in select areas. You could run into some people being contacted twice, but oh well. It is so much easier than going door to door in my opinion, and a very large % of people use the social network...including the one demographic that they ALL would kill for..college kids.

This is the whole reason I created the site SocialMediaMarch.org (http://SocialMediaMarch.org). I truly believe that we can take this message socially and have more of an impact than all the other candidates who are merely running ads. You can look for people in specific areas, and just start sending them nice messages...does not have to be anything more than you would say to their face door to door...but you do not have to leave your home...does not matter what kind of shape you are because most over weight people spend HOURS a day in front of a computer anyway LOL (I used to be one)

Outside of the box thinking can win this election I truly believe. We just need to take action instead of arguing in a forum about whether or not the one candidate we all believe in can even get elected. This is side ways energy as far as I am concerned...

so who's coming with me? Who's coming with me?? Little Jerry McGuire for you movie buffs...but seriously...come to the site...we need 50K members to be really effective, but we can do this...

[mstrmac1]

this thread sucks... Im going to go and do some work to get RP elected!

[orenbus]

Here is an idea...why are we so worried about going door to door...I mean that is great for like selling books but we have a thing called Facebook. What about an initiative where we send 10 people a message every day in select areas. You could run into some people being contacted twice, but oh well. It is so much easier than going door to door in my opinion, and a very large % of people use the social network...including the one demographic that they ALL would kill for..college kids.

This is the whole reason I created the site SocialMediaMarch.org (http://SocialMediaMarch.org). I truly believe that we can take this message socially and have more of an impact than all the other candidates who are merely running ads. You can look for people in specific areas, and just start sending them nice messages...does not have to be anything more than you would say to their face door to door...but you do not have to leave your home...does not matter what kind of shape you are because most over weight people spend HOURS a day in front of a computer anyway LOL (I used to be one)

Outside of the box thinking can win this election I truly believe. We just need to take action instead of arguing in a forum about whether or not the one candidate we all believe in can even get elected. This is side ways energy as far as I am concerned...

so who's coming with me? Who's coming with me?? Little Jerry McGuire for you movie buffs...but seriously...come to the site...we need 50K members to be really effective, but we can do this...

I was going to spend some time to rebut some of the points you make by using exact facts and figures from the last couple of elections, particularly the number of votes and who those voters are that vote in Primaries and Caucuses (and the percentage of people that actually vote in Primaries vs. the General Election), however unfortunately I won't have time to do the leg work needed to explain this in detail. I'm sure someone else can research what we will already know which is the older segment of specifically the republican party that are still on voter rolls, a list which is used for door to door canvassing is a much higher ratio of potential voters for this coming cycle (the same lists that are used for polling numbers BTW).

We can spend a lot of time promoting Ron Paul on the internet, however I think many will not disagree that we did that in 2008 and the effect was our interpretation of what was happening was blurred by our own ability to push massive amounts of information around the internet as you propose. The end result was we had not applied the tried and tested approaches to campaigning to it's fullest extent, which in the end hurt us in states such as IA and NH. Anyway I really do need to hit the sack I would just say I understand where you come from and I also believe in thinking outside the box, but it cannot come at the cost of targeted strategic approaches to specific audiences that have proven to be key to winning Primaries and Caucuses, such as going door to door and GOTV in general. We cannot out of laziness or comfort cede the voter rolls to our opponents just because it is easier for us to sit in front of our computers and be on facebook all day reaching out to anyone who will listen, I say this as a warning of just how important these lists really are.

But if you want to push the facebook angle I won't stop you, go for it! Do whatever drives your passion and what you can do to help the campaign. However understand that there are going to be some absolute essential and proven techniques on how to win that should not be thrown out the window. We have come too far to start making foolish mistakes that may cost us the election in the long run. If it's because we just didn't have the numbers that we lose the election then at least we can look back and say we did what we could with the resources we had, but let's not knock down strategies that we know make a difference only because they are considered traditional or "old school".

[orenbus]

Speaking of which if you are really willing to help Ron Paul win and don't live close enough to the early states to help out with door to door then you want to do this:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPqCldlLmPg&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPqCldlLmPg&feature=player_embedded

http://phone.ronpaul2012.com/v/login.php?v=1

[pacelli]

There is only so much a person can do though and you have completely unrealistic expectations. This type of thinking is quite scary to me because now you must be this perfect citizen? No one is perfect here at all. Not even you. I'm sure you have pissed someone off when driving and did not realize it.

Sure use common sense and don't be a jerk, but now if you are tailgating someone it's a reflection of RP? Some of you are just being ridiculous.:eek:

What do I know? I was only paraphrasing a forum member who personally worked for Dr. Paul.