Two websites to stay away from

[dude58677]

http://www.quatloos.com

This website is operated by a tax lawyer named Jay Adkisson who lobbies to Congress to censor tax honesty advocates or anyone who advocates getting rid of the IRS. When anyone who goes on his message board and dissents he argues stubbornly for days. When you trap him in a corner he either makes fun of you personally, threatens you with your life, or bans you from his message board.

http://www.usconstitution.net

This website is run by a lobbyist named Ian Jefferey Slavin and Steve Mount. Although the debates are polite and intellectual, they tend to argue an absurd point without end such as the military draft is constitutional even though the Constitution makes it clear that it is prohibited. They ask you for links to prove your point and then when you give them a link, they either say the link isn't credible or they take the link out of context.

Just don't waste your time campaigning here for Ron Paul.

[ThePieSwindler]

Although the debates are polite and intellectual, they tend to argue an absurd point without end such as the military draft is constitutional even though the Constitution makes it clear that it is prohibited.

Where in the constitution is it even addressed (prohibited OR allowed)? Not trying to contend the point, I simply ask out of curiosity.

[dude58677]

It is alleged in article 1 section 8 that when it says "Congress has the power to raise armies this means that Congress has the power to conscript armies from the "necessary and proper clause". However all the necessary and proper clause does is allow Congress to determine the salaries of the soldiers and the age of the soldiers who volunteer for the army. The second amendment makes the military draft pointless when it allows the populace to grab a their own guns and defend the homeland from foreign invaders. The ninth amendment makes it clear that the people have an unenumerated right to not join the military if they so wish. The 13th amendment says that there shall be no involunatary servitude of any kind unless someone was convicted of a crime. Pretty simple and obvious but tyrants will push bullshit no matter what.

[ThePieSwindler]

It is alleged in article 1 section 8 that when it says "Congress has the power to raise armies this means that Congress has the power to conscript armies from the "necessary and proper clause". However all the necessary and proper clause does is allow Congress to determine the salaries of the soldiers and the age of the soldiers who volunteer for the army. The second amendment makes the military draft pointless when it allows the populace to grab a their own guns and defend the homeland from foreign invaders. The ninth amendment makes it clear that the people have an unenumerated right to not join the military if they so wish. The 13th amendment says that there shall be no involunatary servitude of any kind unless someone was convicted of a crime. Pretty simple and obvious but tyrants will push bullshit no matter what.

Good examples, all. Thank you. Wasn't WWII all volunteers (or was there conscription), but everyone wanted to volunteer because it was a considered a good cause?

[Therion]

Good examples, all. Thank you. Wasn't WWII all volunteers (or was there conscription), but everyone wanted to volunteer because it was a considered a good cause?

No, there was a draft.

[angrydragon]

Good to know, Thanks! Of course Jay would be out of business if there were no income tax.

[Delivered4000]

Good examples, all. Thank you. Wasn't WWII all volunteers (or was there conscription), but everyone wanted to volunteer because it was a considered a good cause?
I don't think it's possible to get 15 million volunteers

[ThePieSwindler]

No, there was a draft.

Thats what i thought.

[Seer]

Many people volunteered when they realized they might get drafted. They knew that volunteers fought better, so there was incentive to stay out of the draft units. Even in the midst of a draft, free men still fight better and everyone knows it.

[Captain Shays]

I don't think it's possible to get 15 million volunteers


(Captain Shays) I don't think it would be difficult to get 200,000 volunteers if we were invaded. But to go half way around the world and kill people in their homes? Yeah, maybe it would be hard to get 15 Million volunteers.

[LibertyCzar]

It is alleged in article 1 section 8 that when it says "Congress has the power to raise armies this means that Congress has the power to conscript armies from the "necessary and proper clause". However all the necessary and proper clause does is allow Congress to determine the salaries of the soldiers and the age of the soldiers who volunteer for the army. The second amendment makes the military draft pointless when it allows the populace to grab a their own guns and defend the homeland from foreign invaders. The ninth amendment makes it clear that the people have an unenumerated right to not join the military if they so wish. The 13th amendment says that there shall be no involunatary servitude of any kind unless someone was convicted of a crime. Pretty simple and obvious but tyrants will push bullshit no matter what.

Article 2, Section 2, gives the president the power over the very Militia cited in the 2nd Amendment. In Article 2, Section 2, the Militia can be called into actual service. If the 2nd Amendment permits everyone to own a gun, everyone owning a gun is eligible to be called into actual service, which is conscription.

[beermotor]

(Captain Shays) I don't think it would be difficult to get 200,000 volunteers if we were invaded. But to go half way around the world and kill people in their homes? Yeah, maybe it would be hard to get 15 Million volunteers.


AMEN BROTHER.

We need to stop the goddamn insanity.

What's wrong with this world?

[LibertyBelle]

Tax lawyers....of course. As well as accountants. You have to have compassion for many of them, however. Their time, hard work, and money invested in schooling, continuing education, their businesses.....then providing for themselves and their families. They are worried about their very livelihoods.

This is why I ask....how do we get to these people? I'm a physical therapist, if my profession was being threatened, I'm sure I'd be worried, too. It is natural to combat that which is threatening your livelihood. I'm sure they are thinking: 'What would I do if this happens?' Of course, they would have to train for other work.....I'm sure this is disheartening and scary, etc.

There are lots of folks feeling this pressure with Ron Paul's message....how do you tackle this very sensitive issue with people who would lose their jobs and possibly their ability to provide for their families? I don't know how to convince these people.....look at how hard the tax lawyer is fighting the message. He's scared out of his wits! You can talk to him all you want about freedom over security, but it won't work. What is the right thing to say to these people?

[angrydragon]

They'll still have jobs, counting all of our money. =)
Plus there's still state income taxes, well for California at least.

[Carl]

Article 2, Section 2, gives the president the power over the very Militia cited in the 2nd Amendment. In Article 2, Section 2, the Militia can be called into actual service. If the 2nd Amendment permits everyone to own a gun, everyone owning a gun is eligible to be called into actual service, which is conscription.

Article 2, Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States;

Who is authorized to call the Army, Navy and militia of the several states into actual service and how is this call made?

Article 1, Section 8. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

Congress by Declaration of War.

Gun ownership does not automatically make you a militia member.

Militias are formalized volunteer groups within a state.


.
.

[dude58677]

Article 2, Section 2, gives the president the power over the very Militia cited in the 2nd Amendment. In Article 2, Section 2, the Militia can be called into actual service. If the 2nd Amendment permits everyone to own a gun, everyone owning a gun is eligible to be called into actual service, which is conscription.

No, because the second amendment is also used so the populace can stand up to a corrupt government although it can also be used to fight off foriegn invaders. If the government were to start conscription, the people can use their guns and fight off the federal government for conscripting the populace. They did this during the draft riots.

[drinkbleach]

Article 2, Section 2, gives the president the power over the very Militia cited in the 2nd Amendment. In Article 2, Section 2, the Militia can be called into actual service. If the 2nd Amendment permits everyone to own a gun, everyone owning a gun is eligible to be called into actual service, which is conscription.

Very interesting point. I need to study up on the Constitution. I'm finding it rather difficult to get an actual copy of the Constitution, and not a Cliff notes version though.

[drinkbleach]

No, because the second amendment is also used so the populace can stand up to a corrupt government although it can also be used to fight off foriegn invaders. If the government were to start conscription, the people can use their guns and fight off the federal government for conscripting the populace. They did this during the draft riots.

What is the government to do when fighting overseas? It's easy to rally people to fight for the homeland (see Iraqi Insurgents), but what about fighting overseas? Let's face it, not a whole lot of people would want to do it.

[angrydragon]

Very interesting point. I need to study up on the Constitution. I'm finding it rather difficult to get an actual copy of the Constitution, and not a Cliff notes version though.

As well as the intent and meaning behind the contents of the Constitution.

[dude58677]

The only crimes punishable by the United SDtates Federal Government are counterfitting, treason, and piracy. Conscription is hardly one of them.

[dude58677]

Tax lawyers....of course. As well as accountants. You have to have compassion for many of them, however. Their time, hard work, and money invested in schooling, continuing education, their businesses.....then providing for themselves and their families. They are worried about their very livelihoods.

This is why I ask....how do we get to these people? I'm a physical therapist, if my profession was being threatened, I'm sure I'd be worried, too. It is natural to combat that which is threatening your livelihood. I'm sure they are thinking: 'What would I do if this happens?' Of course, they would have to train for other work.....I'm sure this is disheartening and scary, etc.

There are lots of folks feeling this pressure with Ron Paul's message....how do you tackle this very sensitive issue with people who would lose their jobs and possibly their ability to provide for their families? I don't know how to convince these people.....look at how hard the tax lawyer is fighting the message. He's scared out of his wits! You can talk to him all you want about freedom over security, but it won't work. What is the right thing to say to these people?

The tax lawyer could become a lawyer defending bill collectors.