Poll: Would you MoveOn.org Student Debt Forgiveness

[The Midnight Ride]

My apologies if this belongs in another forum. MoveOn.org is pushing this site: http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=548797

It is to forgive all student debt as a means of economic stimulus. I have seen CNBC Analysts promote the same thing from time to time but I do not see how this addresses our financial crisis. Sure people will not have to put money towards debt, but it does not necessarily follow that they will be employed in order to spend and even with that being said, spending and consumption does not create wealth. If they were to save and invest their money it may be another story.

But what does everyone think?

[MRoCkEd]

Talk about moral hazard...

[The Midnight Ride]

Talk about moral hazard...

Agree completely. Those were the first words out of my mouth when I had that site pushed on me. It would do nothing to bring the costs of education down either. What would the Austrian or Libertarian view be on a plan such as this? I would think against . . .

[Nic]

I answered yes, but I think I may be looking at it differently. I wouldn't support just an outright forgiveness, but I do think the loans should be treated the same as any other unsecured loans in bankruptcy.

[Endgame]

double post

[Endgame]

I would support this in principle only if the federal government stops guaranteeing easy student loans for anyone who wants to go to college, and all student loans be subject to all applicable bankruptcy and usury laws. When education becomes a normal marketplace (almost impossible to imagine) I would support this. By the way I'm fresh out of grad school with a mountain of student debt myself.

The universities are crooks, plain and simple. Colleges and student debt are destroying my entire generation.

[brandon]

Yes after we get rid of all federal involvement in student loans and higher education. Most 17-18 year old's signing on to these crazy loans are being greatly misled and are not competent to enter into such a contract.

Edit: Pretty much what Endgame said.

[angelatc]

While loans should be discharged in bankruptcy, they're not. I really find the sentiments that people should not be held responsible for entering into deals. Unless your kitten was being held at gunpoint, you were not coerced into accepting the deal. The fact that you grew up believing you were entitled to a college education is your parents fault. Get them to pay your damned loans.

[Ronulus]

Just need more competition. The high interest rates are what kills any chance of paying these things off. Especially when people only pay the minimum balance, that money doesn't even pay off the debt, just goes towards the interest.

I do think these companies only exist to screw people out of money, but people need to be smart enough not to use the scumbags. That's why I went to a community college for a few years and got all the basics over with, cuts down on costs a significant amount.

[LibertyEagle]

No. It's just another bailout. We didn't agree with them for anyone else, why would we agree with them for student loans? Nobody forced you to take out student loans. It was a choice.

With liberty, comes responsibility.

[VBRonPaulFan]

I would support this in principle only if the federal government stops guaranteeing easy student loans for anyone who wants to go to college, and all student loans be subject to all applicable bankruptcy and usury laws. When education becomes a normal marketplace (almost impossible to imagine) I would support this. By the way I'm fresh out of grad school with a mountain of student debt myself.

The universities are crooks, plain and simple. Colleges and student debt are destroying my entire generation.

Oh, that's bullshit. You know goddamn well what you're getting into when you sign up to go to school X, Y, or Z. The costs are rising uncontrollably because the federal government is backing $100k loans to any Dick, Jane, or Harry that wants to go to whatever school they want, regardless of their financial standing or academic history. So what happens when you have a huge flood of people into a market that can't support it? Prices get pushed up as schools are strapped to try to find enough teachers/buildings/dorms/activities to support all of the students.

Don't blame the schools, blame the government for pissing money to absolutely anybody which has greatly overstimulated the education market. That's like you blaming car companies for selling cars for 2x what they're worth because the government is giving everyone loans to go out and buy a new car, and manufacturers can't keep up with demand.

edit: the only schools i would partially agree with you on being crooks are the Regis/ITT/ECPI type schools. they definitely have a sub-par curriculum, but they are just filling a niche for people that don't have the time/funding to go to most normal brick and mortar colleges.

[heavenlyboy34]

While loans should be discharged in bankruptcy, they're not. I really find the sentiments that people should not be held responsible for entering into deals. Unless your kitten was being held at gunpoint, you were not coerced into accepting the deal. The fact that you grew up believing you were entitled to a college education is your parents fault. Get them to pay your damned loans.
True, but if the government/FED hadn't destroyed the economy, there would likely be work for the currently unemployed hordes of college grads. Other people can dismiss their debt in bankruptcy, so I don't see why the student loan racket should be exempt just because they know how to lobby congress.
ETA: to be clear, I'm not for "forgiveness", but that student loans should be treated like other sorts of debt.

[swiftfoxmark2]

The trouble is, student loan debt does not follow the same rules as private debt. If you stop paying your student loan debt, the government will garnish your wages without a court order, much like the IRS does for late taxes. Also, they seem to be starting no-knock raids for people who evade the government when they are in repayment. Lastly, student loans are not bankruptable.

So we can't just assume that we should treat these like regular private debt. No private creditor I know of has these abilities.

[Ronulus]

With liberty, comes responsibility.

Ahem. "With great power, comes great responsibility" - Ben Parker. Should really know your spiderman before quoting it.

:toady:

[brandon]

With liberty, comes responsibility.

This is not liberty. It's a system designed to condition children to be debt slaves to the world banking cartel from the age of 5. The government and banking cartels are so deeply engrained in every single aspect of our lives and economies that to say we have anything even remotely close to liberty in any aspect at all is laughable.

[The Binghamton Patriot]

I am all for the forgiveness of student loans. This entire bubble was brought on by the government encouragement of education, and the propping up of the profession of academia. Ultimately, those are the people who will suffer the most as their support for the educational bureaucracy will lead to the demise of their profession. While it is certainly true that those who took out the loans are responsible, it is completely irrational to pin the blame on them for wanting , and essentially NEEDING to go to school. You can't get a job in certain field without a degree (i.e. finance, engineering, nursing, accounting, education, chemical manufacturing /engineering/ computer science/engineering). Does that mean we should hold student's hostage for ultimately being forced to take out loans in order to advance our economy? We live in a modern, technological economy. It is INSANE to suggest to someone with a high SAT score and excellent HS grades to pass up an opportunity to go to college, where they can potentially use their skills in a manner that would provide wealth to another member of society down the line. Anyone on these boards that insists that they "weren't forced to go to college" would think otherwise, if they had excellent grades but were without the financial resources to attend a school appropriate to their intelligence and potential. To rationalize the situation using the argument, essentially claiming that a student with good grades become a manual laborer, instead of going to college, is to essentially rationalize the wasting of human capital. The very nature of our society naturally FORCES intelligent students to attend high caliber universities, for if they were to go to a lesser known, or less prominent university, and have no student loans, their career prospects would be SUBSTANTIALLY diminished, and society would ultimately be poorer because intellectual capital would not be diverted into the most efficient channel.

School would be affordable to everyone who wanted to work their way through college, and even take out MINOR loans, had the government not expropriated taxpayer funds to provide the material wherewithal for the public/private education bureaucracy. The effects of the discharge of student loan debt would fall on a variety of different creditors, mainly the lenders of gov't loans (taxpayers), and private student lenders who made the mistake of assuming that students would be able to find a reasonable job within their profession following graduation. The problem with this assumption is that most lenders don't underwrite the student's grades, or the earnings potential of their respected profession. While I believe it is unfair for the gov't to put the burden on the taxpayers, it is the younger generation who will be forced to bear the brunt of the discharge as they progress through life as a U.S. citizen. A great portion of THEIR future income will be expropriated, more so than the older generations; this will be the impact of the discharge of student loans. While most of the monetary impact would be felt by young people for the rest of their lives, in the form of higher prices, and a lower standard of living, it is unfair to place the blame of this calamity squarely on them. Entire generations of Americans consistently VOTED for politicians who encouraged the growth of academia. Those who voted for CARTER, and GW BUSH have to be held accountable for the votes they cast, and the actions of the man for whom they voted. You reap what you sow, and in the end those who chose to support either of these candidates will repent that they ever did so.

[Endgame]

Oh, that's bullshit. You know goddamn well what you're getting into when you sign up to go to school X, Y, or Z. The costs are rising uncontrollably because the federal government is backing $100k loans to any Dick, Jane, or Harry that wants to go to whatever school they want, regardless of their financial standing or academic history. So what happens when you have a huge flood of people into a market that can't support it? Prices get pushed up as schools are strapped to try to find enough teachers/buildings/dorms/activities to support all of the students.

Don't blame the schools, blame the government for pissing money to absolutely anybody which has greatly overstimulated the education market. That's like you blaming car companies for selling cars for 2x what they're worth because the government is giving everyone loans to go out and buy a new car, and manufacturers can't keep up with demand.

edit: the only schools i would partially agree with you on being crooks are the Regis/ITT/ECPI type schools. they definitely have a sub-par curriculum, but they are just filling a niche for people that don't have the time/funding to go to most normal brick and mortar colleges.

I don't think you even read my post. Student loans have nothing to do with the free market. I don't think you've been to a university lately either.

They tear down perfectly functional buildings built in the 80's and replace them with new ones that are full of expensive sculptures and LCD monitors on every wall, hallway corner and ceiling which display absolutely nothing useful on them, renovations to the president's mansion and administrative facilities, charge numerous fees every semester for services that most students don't even use (i.e. bus passes), charge five cents a page for printing fees in addition to ridiculous tuition, build lavish and overpriced dorms with mandatory meal plans that cost more than it would to be eating gourmet food every night, on and on and on.

It's also completely absurd to think that they have any trouble finding teachers. I happen to know a highly qualified individual with a PhD who did post-doctoral work at Harvard and was only able to get a part-time adjunct position after beating out a hundred other applicants.

They do this all while offering fluff degrees and letting basic academic considerations (i.e. modern laboratory equipment, computer labs with computers and printers that actually work) fall by the wayside.

[LibertyEagle]

That is very depressing Binghamton Patriot, as it rings of socialism through and through.

[dannno]

I might be ok with it if they stopped guaranteeing loans and left it to the free market. Prices for education would plummet immediately. Those who paid inflated prices for education after the state propaganda campaign led them to it as the only option to be successful get bailed out, but they get to save that money they were paying their student loans with to start up a business or spend it on goods and services instead of servicing the debt. Ya, it has to come from somewhere, somewhere being the taxpayer, so I don't know if I'm completely on board. Though I wish they would people go bankrupt and didn't garnish wages. Obviously they really should end the wars overseas, that would allow more leeway with things like this.

I also have a mountain of student loan debt after undergrad and grad school, so this would benefit me personally.

[angelatc]

That is very depressing Binghamton Patriot, as it rings of socialism through and through.

Sure, and forgiving the loans only completes the process.

[low preference guy]

they won't be paid as the "education" is of lower quality every year.

[Acala]

I would be okay with it if the banks took the loss rather than the taxpayers. That would put an end to student loans as a source of inflation, the cost of education would drop, and maybe we could get government out of education entirely. Of course none of that will happen.

[The Binghamton Patriot]

That is very depressing Binghamton Patriot, as it rings of socialism through and through.

The only thing that's depressing is your unwillingness to avow the negligence of the baby boomer/ older generations, who for years voted for politicians supporting the creation, and the subsequent expansion of the Dept of Education. While I made clear my solution would be somewhat socialist in nature, let me clarify that I

1) possess quite a mountain of student debt, and possess both an undergraduate degree and grad degree from a private and public university.
2) am in a technical field requiring an education in order to progress. you can't be in finance/ accounting without a degree. Maybe sidney weinburg did it in 1925, but no bank will hire someone without a college degree nowadays. find me one and prove me wrong.

By abolishing the dept of education you eliminate the creditor, and essentially leave no one for those who took out gov't sponsored loans to repay. By abolishing gov't sponsored student loans, you essentially force schools to either go out of business, and/or substantially lower their prices. I would hand back my degrees and go bankrupt immediately if I knew I didn't have to pay back student loans, but the rules say I can't. Right now, the rules are so favored towards the bigs, its entirely impossible to get around student loans. You can't get a graduate degree without taking them out, unless you have 150k and are born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

[Verrater]

sure as long as every dollar forgiven was taken out of the warfare and welfare state.
That's the kind of compromise i can deal with.

[Danke]

End Social Security and then use that surplus to pay off these student loans, afterwards, the National debt.

[outspoken]

As someone with a six figure student debt, sure it'd be great if someone wanted to take my loans off me. That said I think it is immoral and unconscienable to do so. I knew what I was getting into and no one should be accountable except me. Unfortunately, a lot of students due to easy loans go to expensive school without even giving it a second thought. Student debt just passed all credit card debt and is most likely the next bubble to burst.