The hijacking of Paul's platform during the Demint forum

[Darin]

I just watched all the event clips on the left of this page. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/05/demint.forum/index.html?hpt=po_t2)

One by one they express, practically verbatim, Paul's position as their own.

Romney - No administration has gone so far from the constitution. Mentions the constitution several times.
Gingrich - We've strayed too far from what our Founding Fathers wanted.
Bachmann - Too much spending, close the dept of education, it along with Obamacare and several other things are simply unconstitutional!

This drives me crazy. Romney, the guy who last time argued that he didn't need to acknowledge the constitution even to go to war! Bachmann advocating state rights, who would give states the right to allow gay marriage, but then override that on the federal level.

And these were just one minute clips! These three are great presenters... much better than Paul as much as I love him. Paul always came out on top because he had a great message the others didn't have. If they can present his message clearly, no matter how insincere, people will love them and ignore Paul. I wish there was some way to call them out. Maybe the RevPac will address these?

- Darin

[sailingaway]

Bachmann stole the ending tax on repatriation of income, as well, which Ron brought up in the NH debate.......

yeah, it was blatant. I think we need a series of one minute ads showing Ron, years ago, with date, saying these things then them echoing it. Then say he voted that way, every vote, every time. vote for the person who has walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

[CaptainAmerica]

They take their marching orders from Goldman Sachs.

[The Goat]

Their will be many different ways they try to stop our revolution.

[kill the banks]

neocons lie to takeover their enemy and to the people ... be smarter than they are ... read " neoconned " again by Ron Paul

[tangent4ronpaul]

Romney and paul were apparently quite different on the 14th amendment also Romney is all for empire and attacking other countries, while Paul is for defense here at home.

Bachmann says she's all for the Constitution - unless it's inconvenient as to her social agenda of shoving her beliefs down peoples throats. In that case use the full weight of the federal gvmt.

[pauliticalfan]

Yes, we need ads with dates showing that Ron was for these things long before any of these other guys.

[civusamericanus]

Bachmann stole the ending tax on repatriation of income, as well, which Ron brought up in the NH debate.......

yeah, it was blatant. I think we need a series of one minute ads showing Ron, years ago, with date, saying these things then them echoing it. Then say he voted that way, every vote, every time. vote for the person who has walked the walk, not just talked the talk.
^^ Ron Paul needs this to expose these posers. But since Rick Perry hasn't been in any debates yet, we don't have the really good rip off statements. I can't wait for Ron Paul supporters to call Perry out.

Perry will be the worst offender of plagiarizing Ron Paul's platform.

[FSP-Rebel]

^^ Ron Paul needs this to expose these posers. But since Rick Perry hasn't been in any debates yet, we don't have the really good rip off statements. I can't wait for Ron Paul supporters to call Perry out.

Perry will be the worst offender of plagiarizing Ron Paul's platform.
No IP laws!:p
























Def for them however

[tangent4ronpaul]

^^ Ron Paul needs this to expose these posers. But since Rick Perry hasn't been in any debates yet, we don't have the really good rip off statements. I can't wait for Ron Paul supporters to call Perry out.

Perry will be the worst offender of plagiarizing Ron Paul's platform.

Don't hold your breath. wildfires take a long time to put out and as that's his excuse, I'm betting he's going to be too busy to attend any debates till his polling numbers start dropping.

[jolynna]

To me, what is bad is not that Bachman, Romney and the rest are taking Ron Paul's positions. His positions are the correct ones, (no matter who says the words). What is wrong is that the mainstream media is labeling Ron Paul as "out there" and unelectable while the copy-cats who parrot him are lauded and given a legitimacy that Ron Paul isn't given.

If the media was fair and not trying to manipulate my mind, they would be the FIRST to point out the parroting and twisting of other the other candidates from their previous positions.

It isn't a bad thing that others are espousing Ron Paul's stances. That is flat-out saying his stances are rational and right for our country. What is wrong is that Romney's mentioning of the constitution more times than he has ever used the word in his life is being portrayed in article after article is evidence of his brilliance while every couple of sentences Ron Paul manages to get ALWAYS include that Paul is a libertarian (not one of us Republicans although now all the Republicans have memorized and are repeating his libertarian philosophies) and the opinion that Dr. Paul doesn't stand a chance of being elected.


imo

[Brett85]

Bachmann advocating state rights, who would give states the right to allow gay marriage, but then override that on the federal level.

I'm not supporting Bachmann, but this argument that people make here just drives me insane. For the last time, there is nothing unconstitutional about a Constitutional amendment! A Constitutional amendment cannot possibly violate states' rights when 3/4 of the states have to ratify the amendment. If anything, a Constitutional amendment is a good way for the federal government to involve the states on major political issues.

[low preference guy]

I'm not supporting Bachmann, but this argument that people make here just drives me insane. For the last time, there is nothing unconstitutional about a Constitutional amendment! A Constitutional amendment cannot possibly violate states' rights when 3/4 of the states have to ratify the amendment. If anything, a Constitutional amendment is a good way for the federal government to involve the states on major political issues.

You can do that but it's unprincipled. The Federal Government should stay out of the states except for my pet issues A, B, and C! This strategy can only FAIL so I'm glad Ron Paul is against it.

[Valli6]

^^ Ron Paul needs this to expose these posers. But since Rick Perry hasn't been in any debates yet, we don't have the really good rip off statements. I can't wait for Ron Paul supporters to call Perry out.

Perry will be the worst offender of plagiarizing Ron Paul's platform.
I imagine that at this very moment, Perry's people are going over everything Paul said today and coming up with a dumbed down version of it for him to echo at his next event. Then the media will act like they've never heard such things before. :rolleyes:

I'm guessing the "Don't ask me what I'd cut - ask me what I'd keep!" part is something they'll have him rehearse.

[jolynna]

^^ Ron Paul needs this to expose these posers. But since Rick Perry hasn't been in any debates yet, we don't have the really good rip off statements. I can't wait for Ron Paul supporters to call Perry out.

Perry will be the worst offender of plagiarizing Ron Paul's platform.

Imitation (plagiarizing) is a sincere form of flattery. It is flat-out saying that Ron Paul's stances on the issues are the best course for our country. Whether any of the "other" candidates intend to follow through or not...well...ummmm... But, even if the imitators are lying through their teeth and have no intention what-so-ever to do what they are promising now, that Ron Paul is the ONE being parroted says a LOT for his brilliance and how the course he wants to set is right.

To me, what is 100% unacceptable is how the media refuses to give Ron Paul credit for being the originator of these "new to mainstream Republican" lines without throwing in something about how Dr. Paul is unelectable and not a real (in their eyes) GOP...they gotta throw in the Libertarian label in a "put-down" tone although the candidates they tout are NOW espousing the very same Libertarian ideals.

[sailingaway]

Romney and paul were apparently quite different on the 14th amendment also Romney is all for empire and attacking other countries, while Paul is for defense here at home.

Bachmann says she's all for the Constitution - unless it's inconvenient as to her social agenda of shoving her beliefs down peoples throats. In that case use the full weight of the federal gvmt.

She was also completely unable to say WHY Obamacare is unconstitutional. She said it is just 'inherent' in the Constitution that it is.

[Brett85]

You can do that but it's unprincipled. The Federal Government should stay out of the states except for my pet issues A, B, and C! This strategy can only FAIL so I'm glad Ron Paul is against it.

I can't say that it's an issue that I really care about that much, but I was just making the point that a Constitutional amendment by definition cannot be unconstitutional. So it's valid for somebody to say that they support the 10th amendment, but also support a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. It would be different if they actually supported a federal law banning gay marriage. That would be a clear violation of the 10th amendment.

[D.A.S.]

I think we're getting to "and then they fight you" stage.... When other candidates are starting to parrot Ron Paul and his campaign facebook page is getting filled up with trolls, we're getting somewhere.

Now we gotta step up efforts educating the people that it was Ron Paul who guided the debate into this direction. I think we got Internet covered: whenever there is a slanted article, our supporters come out in droves to comment and set the stories straight. It's the TV that needs to be fought harder. We need TV ads aired nationally, on channels like CNN and MSNBC, not just FOX.

[sailingaway]

Imitation (plagiarizing) is a sincere form of flattery. It is flat-out saying that Ron Paul's stances on the issues are the best course for our country. Whether any of the "other" candidates intend to follow through or not...well...ummmm... But, even if the imitators are lying through their teeth and have no intention what-so-ever to do what they are promising now, that Ron Paul is the ONE being parroted says a LOT for his brilliance and how the course he wants to set is right.

To me, what is 100% unacceptable is how the media refuses to give Ron Paul credit for being the originator of these "new to mainstream Republican" lines without throwing in something about how Dr. Paul is unelectable and not a real (in their eyes) GOP...they gotta throw in the Libertarian label in a "put-down" tone although the candidates they tout are NOW espousing the very same Libertarian ideals.

Welcome to the forums!

And I mind them copying it when they do it only because it is popular. Leadership MEANS taking people places that are not currently mainstream, or they wouldn't have to be led there. The others are leading from behind.

[low preference guy]

She was also completely unable to say WHY Obamacare is unconstitutional. She said it is just 'inherent' in the Constitution that it is.

I've been biting my tongue but Bachmann is an airhead.

[Paul4Prez]

The more they copy Ron Paul, the more everyone wins. When everyone in Congress is copying Ron Paul, America will be a better place.

[freeforall]

Bachmann stole the ending tax on repatriation of income, as well, which Ron brought up in the NH debate.......

yeah, it was blatant. I think we need a series of one minute ads showing Ron, years ago, with date, saying these things then them echoing it. Then say he voted that way, every vote, every time. vote for the person who has walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

I can see this being a very successful marketing strategy. It exposes the current candidates for being frauds and copycats while shedding light on the popularity of Ron's views and his consistent record.

[sailingaway]

The more they copy Ron Paul, the more everyone wins. When everyone in Congress is copying Ron Paul, America will be a better place.

Only if they don't blow in a different direction as soon as the wind shifts.

[tangent4ronpaul]

To me, what is bad is not that Bachman, Romney and the rest are taking Ron Paul's positions. His positions are the correct ones, (no matter who says the words). What is wrong is that the mainstream media is labeling Ron Paul as "out there" and unelectable while the copy-cats who parrot him are lauded and given a legitimacy that Ron Paul isn't given.

Go watch John Stewarts video calling out the media for ignoring Paul for the style I'm talking about. It's stickied in General Politics.

Get a clip of Paul presenting a position say 10 years ago - date in big letters
Clip of opposition candidate saying the same thing. Then talking heads Frontrunner/frontrunner/frontrunner/repeat candidate soundbite/frontrunner/frontrunner/frontrunner
Clip of Paul saying same thing for second time, but recent - talking heads out there/unelectable/out there - repeat Paul soundbite - unelectable/out there/out there

Get that on national TV and you've called the other candidate on stealing the possition and the media on their games. Just like John Stewart. For that matter working on something like that with him, would be a good idea - he's got a free platform that is national.



If the media was fair and not trying to manipulate my mind, they would be the FIRST to point out the parroting and twisting of other the other candidates from their previous positions.

Find footage of where they held a different opinion and their recent/current opinion/position.



It isn't a bad thing that others are espousing Ron Paul's stances. That is flat-out saying his stances are rational and right for our country. What is wrong is that Romney's mentioning of the constitution more times than he has ever used the word in his life is being portrayed in article after article is evidence of his brilliance while every couple of sentences Ron Paul manages to get ALWAYS include that Paul is a libertarian (not one of us Republicans although now all the Republicans have memorized and are repeating his libertarian philosophies) and the opinion that Dr. Paul doesn't stand a chance of being elected.


imo

Next debate where people can write in questions address a bunch to Romney. There are 3 clauses that are used to pass all sorts of stuff unconstitutionally, general welfare, commerce and I'm spacing on the third. Ask Romney to explain the Constitutionality of passing legislation with one of these as it's justification. Then let Paul have some fun with him on stage...

-t

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

Frankly, it's Dr. Paul's job to point out the past records of his opponents and contrast them with what they're saying now. Bringing it up in official ads and at the debates would go a long way to shutting down their campaigns.

That's why I say that trying to stick to the Nice Guy path is wrong. Presidential campaigns involve throwing elbows, and if you're unwilling to do that, you won't win. Having Rand or someone from the campaign do it in the "attack dog" role might be an acceptable alternative, but so far no one is doing that either.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I can't say that it's an issue that I really care about that much, but I was just making the point that a Constitutional amendment by definition cannot be unconstitutional. So it's valid for somebody to say that they support the 10th amendment, but also support a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. It would be different if they actually supported a federal law banning gay marriage. That would be a clear violation of the 10th amendment.

To be fair, Bachmann said she doesn't want the federal government telling states what they should do about marriage, then called for a constitutional amendment regarding marriage in the same debate.

No matter how you slice it, that's just silly.

Semantically, a constitutional amendment can very much be unconstitutional; if an amendment nullified the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, that would go against the spirit of the constitution. That's what most people are arguing when they say an amendment would be unconstitutional.

[tangent4ronpaul]

The grassroots can attack and keep his hands clean.

[Darin]

What is wrong is that the mainstream media is labeling Ron Paul as "out there" and unelectable while the copy-cats who parrot him are lauded and given a legitimacy that Ron Paul isn't given.

If the media was fair and not trying to manipulate my mind, they would be the FIRST to point out the parroting and twisting of other the other candidates from their previous positions.

Exactly, well said. And welcome to the forums, jolynna.


The more they copy Ron Paul, the more everyone wins. When everyone in Congress is copying Ron Paul, America will be a better place.

Yeah... if they understood what they were talking about. If they were serious about it. If they weren't just saying it to suppress Paul. This is something I've worried about for a long time... especially with the Tea Party movement. Once it becomes popular, candidates will play lip service to it. They will hijack it and distort it, making it irrelevant. The Constitution will become simply a vehicle in which the others can push their agenda. Think the President should be able to declare war? So do the people! Let's change the constitution... let's make it easier to change the constitution!

The respect and understanding of the constitution will be lost.


Anyway, pointing out Paul's consistent history isn't enough. The other candidates need to be called out. Clips of other candidates contradicting themselves within the last few years, after which show Paul's consistency by playing a clip circa 197x/198x. Or play a clip from each candidate (including Paul) from each year since 2004... and see which ones change - Paul would be the only one to make it to the end of that ad without changing a position. tangent4ronpaul has a good idea, too.

I know Paul won't attack people on stage, but this can be pointed out without attacking. If he said something like "It's great to hear the other candidates taking the constitution seriously now, if they had understood its importance years ago maybe we wouldn't be in this mess." That's a poor example... but you get the idea.

- Darin

[Darin]

Is there any way for us to put a video together about this? Candidate Classics... Then and Now... Constitutional Understanding. Something like that. I drew up this chart real quick (forgot Obama but should add him):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/185397/imitators/RoughChart2.png

If we can fill in some of these and reference some video/audio/writings, I'd love to get a rough video together of this. Maybe it could inspire or be a reference for a better quality RevPac commercial. At least it would be something to spread on Youtube.

This is something I definitely cannot do alone, but if there is any interest I'd love to work on it.

- Darin

[acptulsa]

The more they copy Ron Paul, the more everyone wins. When everyone in Congress is copying Ron Paul, America will be a better place.

You sure about that?

Obama could be said to have been 'copying Ron Paul' when he talked of the benefits of peace during the 2008 campaign. Unfortunately, he only deigned to copy our man during the campaign; once in office the sincere flattery stopped abruptly. This hasn't done us an ounce of good, has it?

Our job as the grassroots is clesr at this point. We have to differentiate those who talk a good game from those who walk the walk. And the one thing we have that we didn't have four years ago is the one thing we need to win--Obama. You voted for a peace and change candidate last time, remember? Do you have those things yet? Must be time to check some voting records and see if you can find some principle...

[erowe1]

Semantically, a constitutional amendment can very much be unconstitutional; if an amendment nullified the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, that would go against the spirit of the constitution. That's what most people are arguing when they say an amendment would be unconstitutional.

Every single amendment changes the Constitution and either makes something constitutional that wasn't before or vice versa.

The politicians who don't respect their oaths of office aren't the ones who want to amend the Constitution. They're the ones who want to legislate without regard for the Constitution, and who treat it like it can mean whatever they want it to.

[TexMac]

Y'all check out Jack Hunter's comments at the beginning of this video:

http://youtu.be/SzAGhoAj8QI

[speciallyblend]

Frankly, it's Dr. Paul's job to point out the past records of his opponents and contrast them with what they're saying now. Bringing it up in official ads and at the debates would go a long way to shutting down their campaigns.

That's why I say that trying to stick to the Nice Guy path is wrong. Presidential campaigns involve throwing elbows, and if you're unwilling to do that, you won't win. Having Rand or someone from the campaign do it in the "attack dog" role might be an acceptable alternative, but so far no one is doing that either.


in the next debate he needs to call them out live on camera with the answers he gives! expose perry,bachmann,romney live in debate.

[osan]

Bachmann stole the ending tax on repatriation of income, as well, which Ron brought up in the NH debate.......

yeah, it was blatant. I think we need a series of one minute ads showing Ron, years ago, with date, saying these things then them echoing it. Then say he voted that way, every vote, every time. vote for the person who has walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

Ron's ideas have gained traction, the competition sees this, they co-opt for their own advantage. This happens every time, without exception.

Textbook bandwagoneering. How is this surprising?

[Travlyr]

Y'all check out Jack Hunter's comments at the beginning of this video:

http://youtu.be/SzAGhoAj8QI

Excellent speech by Dr. Ron Paul. This needs its own thread. ;)

[Napoleon's Shadow]

Look for this to happen during the rest of the campaign. They know it's a winning platform which is why they are trying to co-opt it.