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View Full Version : Military Custody for All Terror Suspects____ This means you !




mrsat_98
09-05-2011, 04:16 PM
military to conduct law-enforcement activities on American soil ?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/09/new-bill-mandates-military-custody-for-all-terror-suspects/244546/?google_editors_picks=true

New Bill Mandates Military Custody for All Terror Suspects
By Yochi J. Dreazen

Sep 5 2011, 8:11 AM ET 8
John McCain quietly inserted a provision in a Senate bill that would take away responsibility from law enforcement agencies like the FBI

military-wide.jpg

Reuters

A little-noticed provision of the National Defense Authorization Act would put all terror suspects into immediate military custody, a controversial change that would have significant legal repercussions for the ongoing war on terror.

The measure was tucked into the Senate's version of the omnibus Pentagon spending measure shortly before Congress adjourned for its summer recess. Similar language had been in the House version of the bill, but it was stripped out after intensive back-channel lobbying by senior White House and Pentagon officials. The measure's future will be decided when lawmakers from the two chambers meet in conference later this month to reconcile the two versions of the massive bill.

If the measure goes into effect, militants arrested while planning or carrying out a terror attack--or in the aftermath of such a strike--would be placed under military custody rather than being left to civilian law enforcement agencies like the FBI. The measure wouldn't apply to American citizens, but legal experts believe that it is written broadly enough to encompass large numbers of terror suspects.

"Right now the president has a choice of whether the FBI or the military should take custody of a terror suspect, and there's often a preference for giving the FBI first dibs because of their expertise in interrogation and intelligence-gathering," said Raha Wala, an analyst for Human Rights First. "This would take away that choice and require the military to take custody of a huge category of terrorism suspects captured at home or abroad, which I think is very alarming."

The provision was inserted into the NDAA at the request of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, according to Senate aides familiar with the panel's deliberations. McCain has long been a proponent of putting terrorism suspects into military custody and trying them before military commissions rather than in civilian courts.

Like many of his fellow Republicans, McCain fiercely criticized the Obama administration for having FBI agents detain and question would-be bomber Umar Farouq Abdulmuttalab, who attempted to blow up a packed airliner on Christmas Day 2009.

"That person should be tried as an enemy combatant; he's a terrorist," McCain said on CNN in January 2010. "To have a person be able to get lawyered up when we need that information very badly betrays or contradicts the president's view that we are at war."

Rachael Dean, a spokeswoman for McCain, declined repeated requests in recent weeks to comment on the lawmaker's support for the new provision.

The measure seems certain to reignite the heated political debate over the Obama administration's detention policies. Obama recently reversed his campaign pledge to close down the Guantanamo Bay detention facility and instead acknowledged that it will continue to hold terror suspects indefinitely. Obama also reversed an earlier vow to try Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a civilian court.

Despite those shifts, many Republicans argue that the president is soft on terror because of his stated preference for having FBI agents take custody of terror suspects and for trying militants in civilian courts whenever possible. Republicans were particularly incensed that FBI agents read Farouk his Miranda rights and gave him access to a lawyer. Sen. Susan Collins, a moderate Republican from Maine, said in January 2010 that the Obama administration had made a serious mistake by treating "a foreign terrorist who had tried to murder hundreds of people as if he were a common criminal."

Beyond the political wrangling, many legal experts believe the new measure would significantly change the legal contours of the broader war on terror.

Benjamin Wittes, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, argued in a recent essay that such a change could be "profoundly disruptive" to American counterterrorism efforts. Wittes noted that a suspect arrested by the FBI in the midst of an unfolding terrorist plot would have to be transferred to military custody even if the militant was providing useful information about the planned attack, potentially setting back the investigation significantly.

"Absent a waiver, it seems clear that the provision would require that the FBI suspend a productive interrogation, transfer the arrestee to the military, and that the military begin things anew later on," Wittes wrote in the essay. "The last thing the bureau needs when it pulls someone off a plane who has just tried to blow up that plane is to worry about how quickly it can turn him over to the military--which have no nearby investigative presence or detention facility."

Wittes cited a second area of concern: the fact that the provision could pave the way for the military to conduct law-enforcement activities on American soil, something that has been expressly outlawed under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. If the FBI uncovered evidence of a possible terror plot, Wittes wrote in the essay, the military would be "obliged to conduct the arrest raid on U.S. soil" to avoid running afoul of the law.

"This scenario should scare those concerned about the integrity of intelligence and counterterrorism operations at least as much as it should scare those who get the willies thinking about the military conducting domestic arrest operations," he wrote.

The Obama administration shares those concerns. When the House was considering its own version of the NDAA earlier this year, Pentagon General Counsel Jeh Johnson and other senior administration lawyers publicly and privately urged lawmakers to scrap the language requiring the military to take immediate custody of terror suspects.

"There is danger in over-militarizing our approach to the current terrorist threat," Johnson said in a speech to the American Constitution Society for Law and Policy in July. "We must guard against the impulse to automatically send into military custody every terrorist, every alleged terrorist, particularly those arrested on American soil for acts that violate American law. Our military is the most powerful in the world ... because of the limits we place on its ability to reach into the other areas of national security typically occupied by civilian law enforcement."

Republicans, of course, see the matter differently. Several GOP aides, speaking on background, said they believed that the military was better-suited to take custody of terror suspects because it could detain them indefinitely and interrogate them without advising the militants of the right to remain silent or giving them access to a lawyer. With time very much of the essence in ongoing terror cases, the aides argued that giving the military access to the suspects as quickly as possible could save American lives.

The debate about what to do with terror suspects has waxed and waned in recent years and is currently at a low point, overshadowed by the nation's economic woes and the ongoing fight over how to close the yawning federal deficit. But with the administration and Senate Republicans gearing up for a battle over the military's role in terror cases, the McCain provision--tucked into a massive bill with virtually no public notice--could be the spark that reignites the simmering fight.

Icymudpuppy
09-05-2011, 04:22 PM
When will the people of Arizona get rid of that tool?

pcosmar
09-05-2011, 04:33 PM
Define "Terror Suspect"


I have chills up my spine

:(

AFPVet
09-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Define "Terror Suspect"


I have chills up my spine

:(

Exactly! Chances are that the definition for "terrorist" will be quite vague or overarching.

Anti Federalist
09-05-2011, 04:54 PM
Define "Terror Suspect"


I have chills up my spine

:(

You know goddamn well who the "terror suspect" is.

MIAC report (http://www.constitution.org/abus/le/miac-strategic-report.pdf)

All any of us need to to do is look in the mirror to see the "terror suspect".

It's coming folks...

ETA: You know what gives me chills?

Rick Perry getting his hands on all this.

Feeding the Abscess
09-05-2011, 04:55 PM
This is exactly why many of us cried "BULLSHIT" when Rand supported keeping Guantanamo open.

Anti Federalist
09-05-2011, 04:56 PM
The measure wouldn't apply to American citizens, but legal experts believe that it is written broadly enough to encompass large numbers of terror suspects.

The government can already declare you an "enemy combatant" and strip your citizenship from you whenever it feels like.

Thus opening you up to "military custody".

Anti Federalist
09-05-2011, 04:58 PM
When will the people of Arizona get rid of that tool?

As a side note, yes.

I really do hate that PoS.

heavenlyboy34
09-05-2011, 04:59 PM
When will the people of Arizona get rid of that tool?
Probably never will if my 29 years of living here and observing local politics is an accurate guide. :(

AFPVet
09-05-2011, 05:01 PM
Exactly AF... they will likely use an overarching definition to include anyone they deem to be terrorists. Likewise, I also agree that they will be able to turn anyone into an enemy combatant. They are masters of exploitation and manipulation. That is how they have stolen our Republic.

Brooklyn Red Leg
09-05-2011, 05:03 PM
You know goddamn well who the "terror suspect" is.

MIAC report (http://www.constitution.org/abus/le/miac-strategic-report.pdf)

All any of us need to to do is look in the mirror to see the "terror suspect".

It's coming folks...

ETA: You know what gives me chills?

Rick Perry getting his hands on all this.

Sadly, I think you're right AF. I can easily see Ron Paul emerging next year as the Republican nominee in time for Obama to declare all of us 'terror suspects'.

tangent4ronpaul
09-05-2011, 06:07 PM
Define "Terror Suspect"


I have chills up my spine

:(

http://cdn.kissdetroit.com/files/2010/07/alexs-lemonade-stand-8ec1c4e50e90f858.jpg

Pauls' Revere
09-05-2011, 06:16 PM
Remeber Janet's annoucement working with Walmart?

http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1291648380371.shtm

GunnyFreedom
09-05-2011, 06:35 PM
Define "Terror Suspect"


I have chills up my spine

:(

Doesn't really matter what the definition is, just as long as:

http://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928

replace "Jews" with "Terrorists"

that's the only bit that actually matters. :(

The fact that you can twist 'Terrorist' to mean any damn thing you please, well, that's just a bonus.

mrsat_98
09-05-2011, 07:01 PM
military to conduct law-enforcement activities on American soil ?.

I suppose we could get crafty and give them something to do. Like turn the beast loose on itself. Obama's transparency in government program might give us just the tool.

"When I ran for this office, I pledged to make government more open and accountable to its citizens. That’s what the new We the People feature on WhiteHouse.gov is all about – giving Americans a direct line to the White House on the issues and concerns that matter most to them.”
– President Barack Obama


http://www.whitehouse.gov/wethepeople

CaptainAmerica
09-05-2011, 07:45 PM
John McCain thinks torture is the best policy now days.

GunnyFreedom
09-05-2011, 07:52 PM
John McCain needs a Posse Comitatus up his 4th Amendment.

AFPVet
09-05-2011, 07:59 PM
John McCain needs a Posse Comitatus up his 4th Amendment.

ROFLMAO! +Rep!

Anti Federalist
09-06-2011, 12:58 AM
Bump

Ronpauljones
09-06-2011, 02:03 AM
Define "Terror Suspect"


I have chills up my spine

:(

According to the Patriot Act anyone that commits a misdemeanor is a terrorist.

Austrian Econ Disciple
09-06-2011, 03:15 AM
Can we please have a substantive debate whether or not we should have a Standing Army in the movement? We should be asking ourselves what sort of society do we want to live in whence replacing the downfall of our current quagmire. If by some miracle we repeal the last 150 years of injurious legislation then we would have made some large strides, but honestly, it is my belief that if a Republic is ever to succeed, it cannot be larger than the size of Cities; therefore, we should be developing strategies which are locally based (micro-secession/independence, nullification, geographical organization, etc.). At least that way we can't be picked off one by one by the Regime & its Gendarmes.

GunnyFreedom
09-06-2011, 03:27 AM
Can we please have a substantive debate whether or not we should have a Standing Army in the movement? We should be asking ourselves what sort of society do we want to live in whence replacing the downfall of our current quagmire. If by some miracle we repeal the last 150 years of injurious legislation then we would have made some large strides, but honestly, it is my belief that if a Republic is ever to succeed, it cannot be larger than the size of Cities; therefore, we should be developing strategies which are locally based (micro-secession/independence, nullification, geographical organization, etc.). At least that way we can't be picked off one by one by the Regime & its Gendarmes.

I actually have a transition plan to restore the founder's intent WRT militia based defenses, while maintaining maximum active defensive strength, and reserve force-projection capabilities in the event of a "real" war. Way to complicated to dig into at 5:20 AM when I haven't been to bed yet. Suffice it to say that 'active duty' Army forces shrink down to a skeleton crew composed of "best of the best" and the bulk of the forces become citizen militia which can, (some more expensive training evolutions [like firing tanks] through the acquiring of militia rank), attend all the "free" training they want, para, halo, edt, SEAL, whatever.

Sea services remain Constitutional, so the Marines would remain largely intact (and not because I am a Marine, but because they are under Dept of Navy and thus Constitutional) and can serve as rapid response forces, the Army/Air Force being reduced to "best of the best" skeleton crew will react more quickly and more professionally in the event of a direct attack, and citizen militia can "form up" into the skeleton to form the whole body in short order.

I have a whole lot of the detail worked out, but way too intense to get into when I'm half asleep. But bottom line is Defence budget is reduced by some 70% while defense capabilities actually increase, rapid response is largely unharmed, and long term force projection readiness can be almost immediately reconstituted in the event of an honest-to-goodness serious war.

The check and balance is that if the war is not serious enough, the militia simply won't fall in to formation.

Austrian Econ Disciple
09-06-2011, 03:43 AM
I actually have a transition plan to restore the founder's intent WRT militia based defenses, while maintaining maximum active defensive strength, and reserve force-projection capabilities in the event of a "real" war. Way to complicated to dig into at 5:20 AM when I haven't been to bed yet. Suffice it to say that 'active duty' Army forces shrink down to a skeleton crew composed of "best of the best" and the bulk of the forces become citizen militia which can, (some more expensive training evolutions [like firing tanks] through the acquiring of militia rank), attend all the "free" training they want, para, halo, edt, SEAL, whatever.

Sea services remain Constitutional, so the Marines would remain largely intact (and not because I am a Marine, but because they are under Dept of Navy and thus Constitutional) and can serve as rapid response forces, the Army/Air Force being reduced to "best of the best" skeleton crew will react more quickly and more professionally in the event of a direct attack, and citizen militia can "form up" into the skeleton to form the whole body in short order.

I have a whole lot of the detail worked out, but way too intense to get into when I'm half asleep. But bottom line is Defence budget is reduced by some 70% while defense capabilities actually increase, rapid response is largely unharmed, and long term force projection readiness can be almost immediately reconstituted in the event of an honest-to-goodness serious war.

The check and balance is that if the war is not serious enough, the militia simply won't fall in to formation.

When the institutions are all ready in place how are you going to stop this 70% reduction from simply being eroded over time? Why give them the institutional and societal belief that they are necessary when they are not? The Second Amendment is the Nation's Defense. I'm more worried about the usurpers in our own lands, than foreign boogeyman. I say we not give them the means to our pockets, our liberty, and our lives.

PS: I realize you put a great amount of thought behind this, but I think you overlooked human nature. I say we err on the side of liberty at all costs.

CaptainAmerica
09-06-2011, 03:51 AM
When will the people of Arizona get rid of that tool? We can't get rid of John McCain unless we take over every chair of every district and the state chair in the AZ GOP. In 2008 the chairmen made sure to control every district and they had a list of non-mccain voters to lock everyone else out of the electoral process.