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View Full Version : What Can We Do About the Space Junk Problem?




tangent4ronpaul
09-04-2011, 09:30 PM
We have been polluting space since Sputnik first orbited the Earth in 1957. For many years we have ignored it. It has now reached a stage where we can no longer do that.

Collisions between space debris and satellites threaten many of the systems we use in our daily lives, from financial transactions to weather reports, live television news reporting to air traffic control. If nothing is done soon, we will no longer have safe corridors to space, and critical low-Earth orbits will become unusable.

While coordinating a team working on techniques to reduce space debris and orbital collisions at Singularity University, Moffett Field, Calif., this summer, the question arose: what should we do with the debris?

We can't blow it up as it makes many more smaller, but just as lethal, pieces. Traveling at 17,000 mph even a fleck of paint can cause significant damage.

Many suggestions involved bringing the debris back down to Earth or allowing it to burn up in the atmosphere. But burning debris or returning it to the Earth is a waste of resources; it costs about $3,000 to send something as small as a can of Coke into space.

We need to use the same ideas we use here on Earth -- reduce, reuse and recycle. If we could move the debris to a safe "graveyard" orbit, we would have a resource in space, ready for future pioneers to take advantage of.

continues at link
http://news.discovery.com/space/space-junk-recycle-problem-110904.html

libertybrewcity
09-04-2011, 09:53 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?247246-How-does-the-freemarket-regulate-space-junk&highlight=space+junk+free+market

i asked this a while back. i think some people answered.

Xenophage
09-05-2011, 02:26 PM
The problem with a graveyard orbit is in the energy and resources required to perform an orbital transfer of the junk itself. Most of that junk exists in an unstable orbit as it is, and would need to be accelerated or launched into higher orbit. The complexity of capturing and towing the junk into a graveyard orbit would lend itself to very high costs. Further, there currently exists no industrial process for recycling the junk while it is still in space.

Another problem is that if something were to impact the graveyard you might have lots of space junk falling out of orbit at once, as opposed to individual pieces falling to Earth occasionally.

Ultimately, collection and retrieval of space junk is a problem that's going to have to be tackled, but we are nowhere nearly capable of doing it yet.

Space junk salvage could be a profitable venture at some point in the future. Certainly, as space junk continues to accumulate anyone interested in going into space is going to have to deal with it. If anyone were to figure out a way to salvage and reuse the material in space, that'd be excellent, but we're probably a long ways off from that.

pcosmar
09-05-2011, 02:34 PM
http://thewickedwriters.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/stcrtnhhikhskbh.jpg

heavenlyboy34
09-05-2011, 02:35 PM
Perhaps we can send Han Solo to take care of this problem. :cool:

ItsTime
09-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Nuke it.

moderate libertarian
09-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Libertarian solution: Let the space junk be where it is and float freely as long as it does not interfere with other planets orbits and harmony

Free Market solution: Let the free market take care of this problem on its own. In other words, let Russia take care of this problem since NASA ia facing very deep funding cuts due to high air conditioning costs in Iraq/Afghanistan.

WilliamC
09-05-2011, 03:17 PM
So long as it's not harboring long-lived radioactive isotopes the cheapest solution is to drop them into an orbitally convenient ocean.

That which doesn't burn up will just splash.

Although I could see where this might make some folks nervous if done wrong.

Anti Federalist
09-05-2011, 03:26 PM
Let it be.

In fact, I hope the problem gets worse to the point where the both geosynchronous and low earth orbits are so cluttered with shit that no new satellites can be launched.

The electronic prison grid that is encircling the globe is high dependent on satellite systems.

Let the whole miserable, stinking mess burn up in space, and allow us to say that not every square inch of planet earth is under surveillance.

Acala
09-05-2011, 03:46 PM
There is an awful lot of "we" have a problem and "we" must do something about it and "we" could do this or that in the article. I fail to see how I, personally, have a problem with space junk at all unless the shit falls on my house or my head. :toady: So let's back my ass right on out of the "we" that seems to think it has a problem and feels the need to do something about it.

Brown Sapper
09-05-2011, 03:55 PM
Satellites contain alot of gold on them. I'm wondering that as prices of gold goes up will it actually become worthwhile to recover them simply for the salvageable parts.

heavenlyboy34
09-05-2011, 04:14 PM
There is an awful lot of "we" have a problem and "we" must do something about it and "we" could do this or that in the article. I fail to see how I, personally, have a problem with space junk at all unless the shit falls on my house or my head. :toady: So let's back my ass right on out of the "we" that seems to think it has a problem and feels the need to do something about it.+a zillion. Way too much use of broad collective "we" around these parts.

fisharmor
09-05-2011, 06:39 PM
This is the picture they use to talk about space junk....
http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef014e8b2fcc56970d-800wi

And this is what they have to say about it:
'"We've lost control of the environment," he said. And he's not wrong -- more junk is being left in orbit than ever and we have no way (yet) of removing the trash.'


Translation:

http://www.libertystickers.com/static/images/productimage-picture-oh-boo-hoo-im-sooo-scared-648.gif


But hey, once it became common knowledge that they were lying through their fucking teeth about global warming, they had to start pushing some other global catastrophism in order to get us all crammed in the one-world-government box car.

tangent4ronpaul
09-05-2011, 07:08 PM
There is an awful lot of "we" have a problem and "we" must do something about it and "we" could do this or that in the article. I fail to see how I, personally, have a problem with space junk at all unless the shit falls on my house or my head. :toady: So let's back my ass right on out of the "we" that seems to think it has a problem and feels the need to do something about it.

Didn't you get the memo?

"we" all got together and voted and "we" decided to de-orbit a bunch of those no longer active birds and use your place as the landing zone. Hope that's alright with you. What was your lat & long again? :D

NYgs23
09-05-2011, 07:52 PM
Obviously, orbits are scarce. Ergo, the economic solution is to privatize orbits.

aravoth
09-05-2011, 08:08 PM
Space junk is a terrorist, notifying homeland security and starting an unconstitutional war against this threat will clearly solve this problem.

GunnyFreedom
09-05-2011, 08:10 PM
put a small but massive singularity in orbit to collect the space junk. ;) :D

Tarzan
09-05-2011, 08:39 PM
Have the EPA make NASA clean up their mess?
Create a "Space Junk Swaps" or "Space Junk Credits"?
Declare them "Historic Monuments" so they are protected?

Or, we could all wear protective head gear!

http://www.presentationsunplugged.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/catintinfoilhat.jpg

Razmear
09-05-2011, 09:23 PM
Just curious what percentage of space junk is magnetic?

GunnyFreedom
09-05-2011, 09:32 PM
This is the picture they use to talk about space junk....
http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef014e8b2fcc56970d-800wi

And this is what they have to say about it:
'"We've lost control of the environment," he said. And he's not wrong -- more junk is being left in orbit than ever and we have no way (yet) of removing the trash.'


Translation:

http://www.libertystickers.com/static/images/productimage-picture-oh-boo-hoo-im-sooo-scared-648.gif


But hey, once it became common knowledge that they were lying through their fucking teeth about global warming, they had to start pushing some other global catastrophism in order to get us all crammed in the one-world-government box car.

LOL wow, those satellites are all each bigger than my whole State of NC...

GunnyFreedom
09-05-2011, 09:34 PM
Just curious what percentage of space junk is magnetic?

Probably very little if any. Iron is very inefficient weight vs tensile strength wise. Stainless, titanium, polymers and ceramics would be the order of the day.

pcosmar
09-05-2011, 09:54 PM
Probably very little if any. Iron is very inefficient weight vs tensile strength wise. Stainless, titanium, polymers and ceramics would be the order of the day.

My thought too,, but everything has gravity.

GunnyFreedom
09-05-2011, 10:21 PM
My thought too,, but everything has gravity.

Indeed it does. Time will eventually handle most of it. I still like the idea of putting a singularity in orbit...the part about crashing into the sea in 1000 years and slowly swallowing the planet would be kinda fun...

Razmear
09-05-2011, 10:46 PM
I haz solution:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/616K71dYb0L._SL500_AA300_.gif
Just hang some from the ISS, problem solved :D

eb

Danke
09-06-2011, 12:16 AM
Garage sale.

devil21
09-06-2011, 12:29 AM
Lemme guess here. We need to send up lasers to vaporize the junk, right? Project Bluebeam.

DamianTV
09-06-2011, 07:09 AM
What Can We Do About the Space Junk Problem?

Stop putting it up there. We treat space the same way as we treat the rest of the planet. Like its a trashcan.

tangent4ronpaul
09-09-2011, 02:08 PM
Defunct 6-ton satellite crashing back to Earth
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/09/us-space-debris-idUSTRE7805VY20110909

A defunct NASA science satellite dispatched by a space shuttle crew in 1991 will come crashing back to Earth this month, with debris most likely landing in an ocean or unpopulated region, officials said Friday.

The Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite, or UARS, was turned off in 2005, becoming another piece of space junk loitering in Earth orbit. The 6.5-ton spacecraft is expected to re-enter Earth's atmosphere later this month, although exactly when and where is unknown.

"The atmosphere changes on a daily basis. It's impossible to say how that's going to impact this re-entry," Michael Duncan, deputy chief of space situational awareness at the U.S. Strategic Command, told reporters during a conference call.

Satellites and rocket bodies falling back to Earth are nothing new. Last year, about 400 small pieces of trackable debris returned to the atmosphere.

Spent rocket bodies re-enter at a rate of about one per week. Large spacecraft, like the 35-foot long, 15-foot diameter (10-6-metres long, 4.5-metres diameter) UARS, fall back to Earth about once a year.

Most of UARS will burn up in the atmosphere, but up to 26 individual pieces, with a combined mass of about 1,100 pounds (500 kg), will survive the fall, said Nicholas Johnson, chief scientist of NASA's Orbital Debris Program office at the Johnson Space Center in Houston.

The largest chunk, part of the spacecraft's structure, is expected to be about 331 pounds (150 kg), he added.

The debris most likely will land in an ocean or in an uninhabited region of Earth.

...

Rosenzweig
09-09-2011, 02:15 PM
I cannot believe there isn't a single reference to Planetes.

Xenophage
09-09-2011, 02:20 PM
I think the fundamental problem with space junk is that space is a commons. We haven't learned yet how privatize space. If people owned orbits, they would be responsible for whatever junk was in that orbit. There are further issues to consider, however. How do you own an orbit? Are there enough feasible orbits of economic value to spread around? How to you establish ownership of current orbits?

I think we need to look at our own history on planet earth for the answers. We all believe in free market environmentalism. Protect property rights.

Homesteading an orbit is an interesting idea that just occurred to me. If you launch a satellite, you've developed the orbit and now you own it? Interesting problems to consider.

If you have junk flying around, then you're responsible for getting rid of it. If your junk exits its previously established orbit and 'pollutes' another orbit, you should be liable to be sued, and the owners of whatever orbits you're polluting have the right to remove your junk.

Xenophage
09-09-2011, 02:22 PM
Now that I think about it, establishing ownership of orbits may be a necessary precondition to the commercialization and development of space, just as land ownership proved a necessary precondition to the development of capitalism on Earth.

Liberty4life
09-09-2011, 02:23 PM
fishing nets

heavenlyboy34
09-09-2011, 02:30 PM
I think the fundamental problem with space junk is that space is a commons. We haven't learned yet how privatize space. If people owned orbits, they would be responsible for whatever junk was in that orbit. There are further issues to consider, however. How do you own an orbit? Are there enough feasible orbits of economic value to spread around? How to you establish ownership of current orbits?

I think we need to look at our own history on planet earth for the answers. We all believe in free market environmentalism. Protect property rights.

Homesteading an orbit is an interesting idea that just occurred to me. If you launch a satellite, you've developed the orbit and now you own it? Interesting problems to consider.

If you have junk flying around, then you're responsible for getting rid of it. If your junk exits its previously established orbit and 'pollutes' another orbit, you should be liable to be sued, and the owners of whatever orbits you're polluting have the right to remove your junk.+rep for truth

wannaberocker
09-09-2011, 02:36 PM
Build a giant trash can and send it into orbit lol.

WilliamC
09-09-2011, 02:44 PM
I think we are all looking at this the wrong way.

When the space alien fleet arrives the only thing between us and them will be all that space junk.

Heck, we need more space junk, it's the only thing keeping us safe!