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View Full Version : Daily Paul Commenter Debunks Sibel Edmonds' Attack Against Bruce Fein




Zatch
09-02-2011, 07:47 PM
Edmonds is Wrong.

Submitted by Biographer165 http://www.dailypaul.com/user/38080 on Thu, 09/01/2011 - 14:15.

I once respected Sibel Edmonds. I credited her purported "whistleblowing." No longer. Her unsupported rants against Fein have irreparably damaged her credibility.

I know Mr. Fein. I have read many of his articles and his most recent book. I have conversed with him for hours after speeches. I have heard him speak on numerous occasions. He is no “neoconservative plant,” and he will bolster, not destroy, Ron Paul’s admirable campaign.

Listen to his congressional testimony. Read his articles. He loves the Constitution and Ron Paul’s cause. He lives for both. Every article he has written (and he’s published hundreds or thousands over the years) conveys righteous indignation at the shredding of constitutional protections by our government over the course of the last century. His passion for due process is almost unique in our time.

Edmonds notes that Fein assisted in revising constitutions in countries with tarnished human rights records. But Constitutional revision is all the more necessary for dysfunctional governments. Fein’s work on each of the three-dozen constitutions he helped to revise was aimed at improving our world. Edmonds’ own experience pales in comparison.

Edmonds relies on the fanatical publication called “The Asian Tribune” to support the gutter-born proposition (or childish insult) that Fein is a “crusty beltway prostitute.” But The Asian Tribune is a known propaganda organ for the Government of Sri Lanka, which made an enemy of Fein by marginalizing and slaughtering Sri Lankan Tamils, an ethnic minority. It’s editor, KT Rajasingham, revealed his propagandist role during a deposition in connection with a defamation suit in Sweeden. See http://www.uktamilnews.com/index.php/archives/17974. To learn more about what sparked Fein’s activism, review the documentary at http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sri-lankas-killing-fields....

Fein has not worked for AEI since 1981. Back then, Wolfowitz and the Neocons were absent. And Fein’s work included Supreme Court analysis only. Regardless, Fein has nothing to do with AEI or the neoconservatives now. His belief in non-interventionism is both lasting and heartfelt.

Edmonds’ only evidence to the contrary originates from speeches by Fein’s wife, Mattie. But it is absurd and arguably sexist to assume that a husband and wife agree on all things. Are James Carville’s views identical to those of Mary Matalin? Mrs. Fein’s views are circumstantial evidence at best, and they are expressly contradicted by Mr. Fein’s consistent, vehement, and vocal adherence to a non-interventionist government limited by the constitution. Why would a neoconservative advocate impeachment for Bush and Cheney?

Edmonds may be fired up against Fein because he quite reasonably ensured her exclusion from a case before the Ohio Elections Commission a few years back. Edmonds’ testimony was deemed irrelevant because she admitted she knew nothing specifically about the congresswoman plaintiff. Had I sat on the Ohio Elections Commission, I would have excluded her, too.

Edmonds’ fanaticism deserves rebuke by lovers of liberty. Fein is a champion of our cause. He is one of the few who advocated impeaching Cheney, Bush, and Obama alike for their lawlessness. He deserves respect. I suggest Edmonds read the wealth of reliable information on Fein before continuing to spread the false accusations and reckless speculation contained in the post above.

By Edmonds' lunatic standards, she could be labeled be a neo-conservative plant herself for damaging the credibility of detractors from the movement.


More Unsupported Statements from Edmonds

Submitted by Biographer165 http://www.dailypaul.com/user/38080 on Fri, 09/02/2011 - 17:40.

In her post on Wednesday, Aug. 31, Edmonds writes:

"This where John Bolton supported Fein(s) stand on Israel and war propaganda against Iran:

In 2010, Fein’s wife, Mattie Fein, began expressing THE COUPLE'S views on Israel and Israel’s interests openly. Some attribute that to Mattie Fein’s desperate need and her fierce competition with Harman over Israel lobby dollars. Here is Mattie’s response to the test question by the Zionist community:

7. Would you support Israel taking military action to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons? Under what circumstances?

The United States should support whatever Israel believes is justified by national security worries over Iran."

(Emphasis Added).

The "sources" that purportedly support Edmonds' claim exclusively contain quotes by Bruce Fein's WIFE. There is no evidence whatsoever that they represent "THE COUPLE'S VIEW."

Once again, Edmonds relies on MRS. Fein to justify her presumptions about MR. Fein's views. She is unable to produce anything aside from quotes by MRS. Fein to support her claims. As I said in my last post, a man's views are often distinct from the views of his wife. To me, that's just obvious. Common sense dictates it, and experience verifies it. Mattie Fein's absurd statements do not justify the presumption that Bruce Fein is pro-war and fanatically pro-israel. In fact, all of Bruce Fein's articles and his recent book, American Empire: Before the Fall, indicate otherwise. Those should be relied on more heavily than statements by his wife.

Edmonds may be distorting the facts because she's angry with Fein for (quite reasonably) ensuring that her testimony was excluded from proceedings before the Ohio Elections Commission a few years ago. See my last post for further information.

__

jennsenn
09-03-2011, 11:31 AM
Uhmmmm...I don't feel that you are adequately addressing the concerns surrounding this man. I am willing to being proven wrong but I wonder what need the campaign has in bringing someone aboard with such concerns? Is the Ron Paul campaign honestly this desperate? I don't believe so. Considering that the candidates are parroting Ron Paul's message in order get some of the prestige that they are lacking, I have no doubt that many others will also be changing their song and want to attach themselves to Ron Paul and his message-I would urge carefulness and caution on those the campaign permits to come alongside. I just don't see any need for it.

Sincerely,

Jenn

specsaregood
09-03-2011, 11:34 AM
./

Napoleon's Shadow
09-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Also, didn't Mr. and Mrs. Fein just get divorced last year?

Edit: yes, he posted this on his facebook last year:Mr. Fein has SUCH a way with words :p ;) :D

Napoleon's Shadow
09-03-2011, 11:43 AM
I wonder what need the campaign has in bringing someone aboard with such concerns? Bruce Fein has enormous credibility, contacts, knowledge base, and expertiese, the question is why WOULDN'T the campaign want to bring him on?

Don't forget though that Bruce isn't running for President.



Considering that the candidates are parroting Ron Paul's message in order get some of the prestige that they are lacking, I have no doubt that many others will also be changing their song and want to attach themselves to Ron Paul and his message-I would urge carefulness and caution on those the campaign permits to come alongside. Bruce has been singing this same song for MANY years. He was highly critical of the Bush Administration while they were still in power. And he also spoke at the Rally for the Republica, and even released a book about the fall of American Empire through the CFL.

LibertyEagle
09-03-2011, 11:46 AM
Uhmmmm...I don't feel that you are adequately addressing the concerns surrounding this man. I am willing to being proven wrong but I wonder what need the campaign has in bringing someone aboard with such concerns? Is the Ron Paul campaign honestly this desperate? I don't believe so. Considering that the candidates are parroting Ron Paul's message in order get some of the prestige that they are lacking, I have no doubt that many others will also be changing their song and want to attach themselves to Ron Paul and his message-I would urge carefulness and caution on those the campaign permits to come alongside. I just don't see any need for it.

Sincerely,

Jenn

Dr. Paul knows Fein. The fact that he trusts him is enough for me. But, for those curious, you may want to google American Freedom Agenda and read about it on their website. Ron Paul was the first one to sign it in '07. Fein and Dr. Paul worked together and introduced it as legislation. Go read some of Fein's articles; go read his book. Fein has been very supportive of Ron Paul for quite some time.

But, I guess he could hire someone like Ghemminger. I mean, that way, everyone would feel that the hire was puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee. He couldn't do jack shit to help Ron Paul win the Republican nomination, but who cares, right? Sheesh, people.

Fein isn't some mole. Now, how about everyone do something constructive to help Dr. Paul win. Like volunteering with the campaign to do phonebanking. It is going on right now. Or, get busy promoting the next moneybomb. It's coming up quickly and the campaign needs lots of money to run a national campaign. Campaign offices need to be opened up across the country, ads need to be run, etc., but it all costs money. Lots of it.

jennsenn
09-03-2011, 09:32 PM
I think you guys have made some good points so I will be sure to pass them on to others so if Sibel has been wrong about Mr. Fein, I hope his reputation will not be harmed. Thank you for posting these things.

Sincerely, Jenn

Petar
09-03-2011, 10:55 PM
Sibel seems incredibly brave, but maybe she made a mistake this time.

It's hard to always know what is going on in this multi-layer world of deceit...

vita3
09-04-2011, 02:41 AM
"Fein has not worked for AEI since 1981.'

Is this true?

vita3
09-04-2011, 08:14 AM
"Fein has not worked for AEI since 1981.'

Is this true?

pcosmar
09-04-2011, 08:26 AM
"Fein has not worked for AEI since 1981.'

Is this true?

Define "worked for".
http://www.aei.org/basicPages/20060815142912626

I am hoping that he is an asset and waiting to see.

But I have concerns



It's hard to always know what is going on in this multi-layer world of deceit...

And this is exactly why.
I researched Ron Paul before giving him my support. It was his long and consistent history that impressed me.
Fein may be sincere, but he has a history that causes me concern. It may seem fine to GOP insiders and Israel Firster's, but I am not yet convinced of where his loyalties are.

I am trying not to be negative,, I will watch and see.

Napoleon's Shadow
09-04-2011, 08:40 AM
Why does it matter if he is/was associated with AEI? He obviously disagrees with their foreign policies.
Remember, Bruce is not the one running for office here.

pcosmar
09-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Why does it matter if he is/was associated with AEI? .

It was a claim made by the "De-bunker". A question was asked if it was true.

Peace&Freedom
09-04-2011, 11:48 AM
Both sides have made good points here. Concentrating on the campaign is a good idea, yes, along with making sure it's not going to be a wasted effort ahead of time, by persuading Paul to not take on moles who act as walking monkey wrenches to his agenda. I would remind people to remember Justice Souter, who had a 'track record' of being conservative and was well known in the conservative circle that screened court nominees (they thought) before being appointed to the Supreme Court. Only one independent conservative (Howard Phillips) raised strong concerns over details about his background. So who's judgment was vindicated, in the end?

If the neocons are going to try to infiltrate the Paul camp (and they are), they certainly aren't going use an obvious fraud, but somebody with a reasonable reputation. Fein has questionable activity in his RECENT past (relating to being a mouthpiece for Turkey) that bears caution and scrutiny. See the following:

http://lukery.blogspot.com/2009/05/bruce-fein-turkey.html

And here's a recent (9/3) interview with Edmonds, part of which deals with Fein:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwrwhlBDr98

Sola_Fide
09-04-2011, 11:52 AM
Libertarians don't want to win.

Peace&Freedom
09-04-2011, 12:06 PM
Libertarians want to win legislatively and policy-wise, not just win elections and lose every major legislative and policy battle once in power, as Republicans have done for 80 years. Examining the type of people who may be handling the Paul administration is part of winning the legislative battle.

LibertyEagle
09-04-2011, 12:27 PM
Libertarians want to win legislatively and policy-wise, not just win elections and lose every major legislative and policy battle once in power, as Republicans have done for 80 years. Examining the type of people who may be handling the Paul administration is part of winning the legislative battle.

You seem to have forgotten that Ron Paul is a Republican and is running to win the Republican nomination. So, perhaps you could take your bashing of Republicans somewhere else.

The first rule of the grassroots must be to do no harm.

specsaregood
09-04-2011, 12:43 PM
Libertarians want to win legislatively and policy-wise

How's that been working out for them?

angelatc
09-04-2011, 01:03 PM
How's that been working out for them?

Exactly.

Peace&Freedom
09-04-2011, 03:38 PM
Sauce for the goose, exactly. How's it been working for the GOP, for 80 years? How is casually bashing Libertarians okay, but making an obvious response that points out the greater failure of the major parties not OK? How about we not harm, by not throwing stones in the first place?

Feeding the Abscess
09-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Sauce for the goose, exactly. How's it been working for the GOP, for 80 years? How is casually bashing Libertarians okay, but making an obvious response that points out the greater failure of the major parties not OK? How about we not harm, by not throwing stones in the first place?

I agree. I'd even argue that in terms of political influence, the Libertarian Party's failure to accomplish much of anything is far better than the outright disastrous policies Republicans have put forward over the past century.

We could only be so lucky if the Republicans failed to enact a War on Terror, War on Drugs, PATRIOT Act, numerous illegal wars, the Nixon Depression, failure to stop Obamacare, etc, etc...

I'd say something about throwing stones in a glass house, but a better analogy would be:

Don't stab and shoot your kids in the face, burn the house down, and drive your car off a cliff while attempting to criticize your neighbors.

I'm a Republican with no ties to the Libertarian Party, to note.