Email from Irate Parent to School over Atlas Shrugged - Kyle's Mom in Political Action

[Dilberto]

http://pastebin.com/DgMpRwuT

The book was assigned to a gifted 13 y/o, but all the other students who were assigned this book were 16+.

What is telling though is that the father didn't just express his wishes for his son, but he lobbied to have the book removed from the school all together! The disjointed way in which he picked out bits and pieces indicates that he probably didn't actually read it. Rather, he ended up with some "family's guide to literature", or his pastor provided him with the talking points.

I recommend that everybody share and spread this pastebin link because most of the same talking points would very easily be used by parents of older children. Teachers should be prepared for this very sort of thing and be ready to counter it.

The reason why this is being posted in General Politics is for the benefit of any teacher on this forum who may have to deal with similar outrage over any sort of instruction that goes against the government school norm.

[specsaregood]

i have no problem with a parent not wanting a book with sexual scenarios and cursing being assigned to a 13yr old.

[Acala]

Government ruins everything it touches. Why would education be the exception? Government schools = failure

[ItsTime]

Government ruins everything it touches. Why would education be the exception? Government schools = failure

Which makes this whole thing ironic lol.

[Agorism]

Can't read Catcher and the Rye either I guess either if we want only Christian books.

[specsaregood]

Can't read Catcher and the Rye either I guess either if we want only Christian books.

The OP piece has nothing to do with Christianity or "christian books", in fact the books the parent suggests as possible alternatives aren't christian books.

[kah13176]

We read Edgar Allen Poe in 6th grade.

Ever read his "Pit and the Pendulum"? Most other "graphic" books pale in comparison.

[brushfire]

Its the parent's prerogative...

[VBRonPaulFan]

It has nothing to do with government... in the letter he notes that it is an academy. A private school he's sending him child to, I believe. He doesn't really have much of an argument against the philosophical point of view - he dislikes the swearing, sexual encounters, and couple of mature scenes like where Dagny gets slapped. I agree with him, Atlas Shrugged is a mature writing not for younger children. And I liked the book and have read it.

[Ronpauljones]

Im going to have to get around to reading this book some day.

[CaptUSA]

I guess this guy REALLY wouldn't like the Fountainhead!!

[jmdrake]

It has nothing to do with government... in the letter he notes that it is an academy. A private school he's sending him child to, I believe. He doesn't really have much of an argument against the philosophical point of view - he dislikes the swearing, sexual encounters, and couple of mature scenes like where Dagny gets slapped. I agree with him, Atlas Shrugged is a mature writing not for younger children. And I liked the book and have read it.

So in other words the free market worked exactly as intended and the book was removed. Good! Disclaimer here, I'm not a fan of Ayn Rand. In fact I don't like her and haven't liked her after I found out she was pressuring Murray Rothbard to divorce his wife. That was none of Ayn's business. That's got nothing to do with the book, but I'm just saying I don't feel duty bound to run out in defense of her book just because I agree with part of it. Atlas Shrugged as a movie failed in the free market. It failed in part because it was marketed through conservative talk radio without realizing that the humanistic viewpoint that comes through is antagonistic to the typical talk radio listener. (In other words, people like this parent). It's ironic that the OP thought the problem was "government run norms". Actually Atlas Shrugged would have a better chance surviving in a government run school.

[Dilberto]

i have no problem with a parent not wanting a book with sexual scenarios and cursing being assigned to a 13yr old.

The cursing is almost non-existent in the book. We are taking about a very occasional "hell" or "damn".

[Acala]

It has nothing to do with government... in the letter he notes that it is an academy. A private school he's sending him child to, I believe. He doesn't really have much of an argument against the philosophical point of view - he dislikes the swearing, sexual encounters, and couple of mature scenes like where Dagny gets slapped. I agree with him, Atlas Shrugged is a mature writing not for younger children. And I liked the book and have read it.

I withdraw my comment and replace it with the following: WTF? Why is this even posted? What has this got to do with politics?

[1000-points-of-fright]

i have no problem with a parent not wanting a book with sexual scenarios and cursing being assigned to a 13yr old.

Most 13yr olds have probably seen (or had) more (and better) sex than there is in Atlas Shrugged. They sure as shit know how to curse better than any of the characters.

[outspoken]

Seriously, this kid is getting a more graphic education on sexuality watching an hour of TV after school than reading this book. This guy should try homeschooling and disconnecting from the real world while he at it if he wants to protect his child's innocent, untainted mind.

[specsaregood]

Most 13yr olds have probably seen (or had) more (and better) sex than there is in Atlas Shrugged. They sure as shit know how to curse better than any of the characters.

Which is all irrelevent. If this parent doesn't like the content they are free to express their reasons why and suggest alternatives.

[V4Vendetta]

the book is meant for adults - there is pornography in it - i wouldn't want my 13 or 16 year old reading it

[erowe1]

Is this a good book for schools to be using anyway?

I've certainly never heard it touted as an example of good literature.

[Rothbardian Girl]

the book is meant for adults - there is pornography in it - i wouldn't want my 13 or 16 year old reading it

I respect your opinion, but I read it when I was 16 and wasn't mentally scarred for life or anything. I don't remember there ever being an instance of an explicitly pornographic scene, either - maybe an allusion or two, but nothing major. There was more "porn" in Jane Eyre than in Atlas Shrugged if we are to use your characterization.

Personally, I think people or parents who get all bent out of shape about potentially inappropriate material in books shouldn't really worry anyway. Of course I respect their opinions, but that doesn't mean I think their concerns are misplaced. There is more violence and sex on an hour of the average TV crime drama show (or in 15 minutes of the average journey through a high school hallway) than in 600 pages of Atlas Shrugged or however long it is.

Sure, the parent has the right to express disapproval, but I'm not sure how effective that would actually be beyond overly sheltering a child at the age where he or she is starting to break out of that shell. Hell, if my parents told me I couldn't read Atlas Shrugged, I'd probably check it out just because of that. I understand that isn't the point some are trying to make, but I'm just saying.

While I think Atlas Shrugged was an important gateway to libertarian thinking for me, I pity people who don't really bother to find anything out beyond that. I'm not so sure I agree with 99% of what Ayn Rand said in her novels anymore, but that doesn't mean I don't value her novels. I think if I were to get into all the faults I find with her work, it would derail the thread majorly... I won't say anything more on that subject.

[Matthew5]

The reason why this is being posted in General Politics is for the benefit of any teacher on this forum who may have to deal with similar outrage over any sort of instruction that goes against the government school norm.

This is not beneficial. And this is a private school, where I'm sure a lot of money is paid. So dang straight I'd be complaining. lol

Total non-issue...a father is merely expressing his opposition to it. He never demanded the book be removed, only made helpful suggestions. It is an adult book and best perhaps left to the 16+ crowd. 13 is way too young, in my opinion.

[jmdrake]

Seriously, this kid is getting a more graphic education on sexuality watching an hour of TV after school than reading this book. This guy should try homeschooling and disconnecting from the real world while he at it if he wants to protect his child's innocent, untainted mind.

Or he could pay to send his child to a private school with similar values as his and then complain if the school didn't live up to his expectations. Oh, wait a minute....THAT'S WHAT HE DID! It's funny how some only like the free market when they get the results they want.

[amy31416]

Of course, when the kid realizes that dad doesn't want him reading Ayn Rand, he might actually mosey on over to the nearest library or book store and see what all the fuss is about. I know I would have.

My parents had a ton of books in the house, and by the time they thought to hide some of the more explicit ones (including my mother's nursing textbooks), it was already too late, I'd read them. And the only ones that may have contributed to any neuroses I might have are probably the nursing texts--man, there's some nasty diseases in the world. Salinger had a temporary effect. Oh yeah, and the bible--they had a pretty graphic version of the Old Testament.

[Justinjj1]

Forcing a kid to read that pile of shite is akin to cruel and unusual punishment.

[Dilberto]

Total non-issue...a father is merely expressing his opposition to it. He never demanded the book be removed, only made helpful suggestions. It is an adult book and best perhaps left to the 16+ crowd. 13 is way too young, in my opinion.

He did infer that it should be removed from the entire school.

This whole book seems to look down on helping others and being kind and respectful to others. I am not proposing you teach religion, but I do propose you don’t teach things that could steer them away from God, morality, and respect for others.

[Rothbardian Girl]

Of course, when the kid realizes that dad doesn't want him reading Ayn Rand, he might actually mosey on over to the nearest library or book store and see what all the fuss is about. I know I would have.


Exactly. That's always what I've done when my parents didn't want me to read or see something. My dad thought my school was being forced to watch the Obama inauguration (we weren't), but since he was making such a big fuss over it, it increased my curiosity and I ended up watching it anyway. I mean, I don't like Obama at all, but curious kids *will* sidestep a ban any chance they get.

[CaptainAmerica]

Is "the Giver" banned yet?

[Agorism]

Did they ban Heart of Darkness?

[Acala]

This thread should be re-titled: "Random person doesn't want his kid reading Atlas Shrugged.":rolleyes:

[1000-points-of-fright]

Which is all irrelevent. If this parent doesn't like the content they are free to express their reasons why and suggest alternatives.

I wasn't commenting on the a parents right to complain. Bitch away to your heart's content. I was commenting on your notion that the sexual scenarios and cursing in Atlas Shrugged are inappropriate for a 13yr old living in the 21st Century.


Is this a good book for schools to be using anyway?

I've certainly never heard it touted as an example of good literature.

I agree. This is what the parent should be complaining about.

[AZKing]

So did he talk to his son about this or did he just bitch to the school?

[Xenophage]

I read Atlas when I was 13.

[libertarian4321]

While the book may promote libertarian ideas, it's more of a philosophical/political diatribe than a well written novel. I found it a chore to wade through both of Rand's books (Shrugged and Fountainhead) as an adult- Shrugged is better suited to being a door stop than good literature (though it is slightly less bad than Fountainhead).

I probably would have just said "screw it, I'll read the Cliff's notes" if faced with such a chore as a student.

I think being forced to read a book like Shrugged would turn a lot of kids AWAY from libertarianism.

It's not great literature, and it's not a good read, and it's probably not appropriate for a 13-year old. I can see the guy's point- there are certainly a lot of better choices out there.

[low preference guy]

While the book may promote libertarian ideas, it's more of a philosophical/political diatribe than a well written novel. I found it a chore to wade through both of Rand's books (Shrugged and Fountainhead) as an adult- Shrugged is better suited to being a door stop than good literature (though it is slightly less bad than Fountainhead).

I probably would have just said "screw it, I'll read the Cliff's notes" if faced with such a chore as a student.

I think being forced to read a book like Shrugged would turn a lot of kids AWAY from libertarianism.

It's not great literature, and it's not a good read, and it's probably not appropriate for a 13-year old. I can see the guy's point- there are certainly a lot of better choices out there.

Forcing people to read ANYTHING to convert them to libertarianism is probably bad. The reason why in south park they burn Ayn Rand's book in one episode is that Matt Stone was forced to read it.

[Gumba of Liberty]

The students in my high school economics class has the choice of reading Economics in One Lesson for Extra Credit :p

[low preference guy]

was it Atlas Shrugged or the Fountainhead the one with the anal sex scene?

[heavenlyboy34]

While the book may promote libertarian ideas, it's more of a philosophical/political diatribe than a well written novel. I found it a chore to wade through both of Rand's books (Shrugged and Fountainhead) as an adult- Shrugged is better suited to being a door stop than good literature (though it is slightly less bad than Fountainhead).

I probably would have just said "screw it, I'll read the Cliff's notes" if faced with such a chore as a student.

I think being forced to read a book like Shrugged would turn a lot of kids AWAY from libertarianism.

It's not great literature, and it's not a good read, and it's probably not appropriate for a 13-year old. I can see the guy's point- there are certainly a lot of better choices out there.
I'm only a chapter into it, but it's not that bad. I've certainly read worse. The dialogue is rather wooden, though. In regards to the OP, the parent's complaints are rather silly. Generally, assigned literature is discussed in class to clear up confusion and allow students to think deeper about the text. It's almost sillier than the people who want to ban Huck Finn because of the N-word usage in it.

[Dilberto]

was it Atlas Shrugged or the Fountainhead the one with the anal sex scene?

I think you are referring to the semi-rape scene in The Fountainhead.

[MJU1983]

Sounds like a parenting problem. I was never censored and turned out great! :)

[josh b]

The students in my high school economics class has the choice of reading Economics in One Lesson for Extra Credit :p

You live a privileged life my friend. My Econ professor goes on regular rants about various things like how we don't need to balance the budget, or how we need to inflate to avoid a deflationary spiral. It's always out of the blue and not related to the topic as well. I wish I could read Hazlitt for extra credit. :(

[Tinnuhana]

If, as RP says, schools should be responsible to the parents rather than the state, this could be ironed out without the man infringing on the prerogative of other students to read the book. This is easily solved with a book list the parents can go through with their child to choose an alternative.
When I had to teach a unit on human sexuality several years back, I sent a note home to parents giving the specifics of what was to be taught, and on-line version of the text, and a calendar of daily topics. The parents appreciated this and were able to communicate freely with me about what and what not to teach their child. They had the option of taking the material and coviering it with the child, themselves. As a result, only one or two students a year needed alternative lessons. It didn't take that much extra time on my part, and I got lots of positive feedback from the parents.