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Anti Federalist
09-01-2011, 10:22 PM
So, the cops raid a home illegally, seize property, A YEAR AGO, no charges were filed, nothing was illegal, but yet the state still has them.

Bet a silver round that if she ever gets them back, they'll be fucked up. :mad:

ETA - Copy of the lawsuit:

http://www.lovelakewood.com/pdf/law/110817_guns.pdf



Cops Confiscate Lakewood Lady’s Arsenal; Motive Pending

Posted by Kyle Swenson on Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:00 AM

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/08/30/cops-confiscate-lakewood-ladys-arsenal-motive-pending

Francesca Rice no longer serves in her country’s armed forces, but she brought a piece of the action back home with her.

It seems the Lakewood vet had stockpiled her Edgewater Towers condo with a home arsenal including handguns, shotguns, a sniper rifle — plus a Thompson sub-machine gun, just in case the pizza guy got fresh.

Her cache somehow caught the attention of Lakewood Police, who paid a visit last September. When they found Rice wasn’t home, they asked an obliging employee of the complex to open up the apartment without her consent. Once inside, they raided the gun rack, making off with 13 firearms worth around $15,000. The only problem: They had no apparent reason to.

When Rice kindly asked to have her toys returned, the cops acknowledged that the weapons were legally owned. But they refused to return them without a court order. And so Rice has filed suit in Lakewood Municipal Court.

So far, nobody’s doing much talking. Lakewood Police Chief Timothy Malley declined to speak specifically about the seizure, citing the ongoing lawsuit. He also declined to speak generally about situations in which Lakewood cops would be likely to seize property on a whim. Rice’s attorney did not return Scene’s calls for comment, and Rice didn’t respond to repeated buzzes on her apartment intercom.

Amid all the zipped lips, there’s a moral here for everybody: Gun owners, beware of law enforcement looking to trod upon your rights. And non-gun owners, beware of neighbors who are particularly well prepared for the zombie apocalypse.

Czolgosz
09-01-2011, 10:24 PM
Gov knows that nobody will ever defend themselves.

AFPVet
09-01-2011, 10:32 PM
One person steals, kidnaps, and holds people for ransom. This person is put to justice. Another person does the same thing... what happens to this person? NOTHING! Why? This person wears a badge.

Pericles
09-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Past time to have a chat with "obliging complex employee", thus:

"I understand you let the police into my place."

"I have two items of information for you - (A) They didn't get everything, and (B) an attorney would like to chat with you after you are served with papers."

Sean
09-02-2011, 04:30 AM
Is it possible for her to file burglary charges against the police? Take it directly to a prosecutor or grand jury? Also sue the apartment complex owner and employee.

MJU1983
09-02-2011, 05:10 AM
Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot
?

Bern
09-02-2011, 06:00 AM
This story makes no sense. Even less sense than Chewbacca living on Endor. The PD should be prosecuted for burglary.

fisharmor
09-02-2011, 06:49 AM
Is it possible for her to file burglary charges against the police? Take it directly to a prosecutor or grand jury? Also sue the apartment complex owner and employee.

There's got to be a way to pile on a bunch of prosecution multipliers, just like they do to us. I hope her attorney realizes that they didn't break just one law.

ETA: read the suit, and no, they're not charging them with anything, just trying to get the guns back.
Shit like this pisses me off because nobody realizes even if she gets her guns back in pristine condition, this is a win for the state.
She has to pay legal fees and file paperwork and waste hours of her life to get back property stolen from her.
The state has created an economic disincentive to own firearms. If they aren't punished for this, they're going to keep doing it.
They win.

flightlesskiwi
09-02-2011, 08:14 AM
There's got to be a way to pile on a bunch of prosecution multipliers, just like they do to us. I hope her attorney realizes that they didn't break just one law.

ETA: read the suit, and no, they're not charging them with anything, just trying to get the guns back.
Shit like this pisses me off because nobody realizes even if she gets her guns back in pristine condition, this is a win for the state.
She has to pay legal fees and file paperwork and waste hours of her life to get back property stolen from her.
The state has created an economic disincentive to own firearms. If they aren't punished for this, they're going to keep doing it.
They win.

finding a good lawyer that is willing to take on things like this is rare.

Steve-in-NY
09-02-2011, 08:29 AM
Her best bet is to sue everyone imo. The police department, the county, Edgewater Towers condos, etc.
Gotta hit them where it hurts... right in the wallet.

pcosmar
09-02-2011, 08:46 AM
finding a good lawyer that is willing to take on things like this is rare.

Good Lawyer.
Isn't that an Oxymoron.

:(

I have yet to see or meet one. Perhaps it was once an honorably profession.
But the entire "system" is so corrupt and ass backwards that a "Good" Lawyer is one that is more corrupt and viscous than the other guys.

Bosco Warden
09-02-2011, 08:50 AM
That's Ohio for you, screw that state. Its a totalitarian state been like for decades. Religion + Govt.

Some state are just going to have to be battles grounds, and Ohio is one of them.

flightlesskiwi
09-02-2011, 08:54 AM
Good Lawyer.
Isn't that an Oxymoron.

:(

I have yet to see or meet one. Perhaps it was once an honorably profession.
But the entire "system" is so corrupt and ass backwards that a "Good" Lawyer is one that is more corrupt and viscous than the other guys.

by good i meant good at working the system and influencing their way to a win for their client. not morally good.

i have a friend who has a lawsuit against the border patrol and against a border patrol agent.

the only law firm he could find to take his cases doesn't really have all their ducks in a row. :-/

fisharmor
09-02-2011, 09:25 AM
Good Lawyer.
Isn't that an Oxymoron.

Everyone hates lawyers, and everyone hates politicians...
...and the guy who will be deciding what to do in this suit, the judge, is nothing more than a lawyer who has political connections.

Bern
09-02-2011, 09:58 AM
Good Lawyer.
Isn't that an Oxymoron.

:(

I have yet to see or meet one. ...

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/bios/

Dr.3D
09-02-2011, 10:10 AM
I get the feeling, the cops don't know where the guns are at this time. I'll bet they took them and passed them around to their friends. Those guns are probably long gone.

"Don't steal, the government hates competition."

oyarde
09-02-2011, 10:17 AM
I suspect if this happened in my state , the state police would be down there filing charges against the offenders and until court they would get paid vacation.

osan
09-02-2011, 10:32 AM
There is a subtext lesson here. Secure your weapons properly if you can afford to. That usually means a safe - preferably a real one and not the typical "gun safe" such as Liberty, Champion, etc.

If you are well settled in a home, build a vault if you can. Eighteen inches of heavily reinforced concrete lined with 1" steel plate and a real vault door may not be perfect, but it will take cops one hell of a long time to get through. A floor safe, a real one, will be $$ as well, but once again it will make defeat much costlier to whomever may be attacking it. If you are mechanically inclined, you can build your own, but that is a fringe alternative.

If you use a "gun safe", you should secure it properly. For me, that would mean on a large concrete block (obviously not feasible in an apartment) cast into the floor. Bolt the safe to the block via LARGE steel flanges that are welded to the safe and the holes counterbored. The studs in the concrete pass through the holes in the flanges and are bolted down using McGard-style lug nuts. The nuts seat down into the counterbores and make extraction very difficult, barring the use of a cutting torch. Of course cops may resort to that, but at least you make them work much harder.

If you want to defeat cutting torches, use copper. That is how torch-resistant safes/vaults were built. Layers of copper alternating with the steel.

1000-points-of-fright
09-02-2011, 10:47 AM
a home arsenal including handguns, shotguns, a sniper rifle plus a Thompson sub-machine gun, just in case the pizza guy got fresh......Once inside, they raided the gun rack, making off with 13 firearms worth around $15,000.

An actual Thompson sub-machine gun is worth more than $15,000 on its own. It was probably just a semi-auto version of the Tommy gun, hence not a machine gun at all. Idiots.

oyarde
09-02-2011, 10:48 AM
I get the feeling, the cops don't know where the guns are at this time. I'll bet they took them and passed them around to their friends. Those guns are probably long gone.

"Don't steal, the government hates competition." Yep , my first thought as well , like little children at Christmas , you can bet by close of business the day they were stolen , they were all in homes of the thieves .

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 11:23 AM
An actual Thompson sub-machine gun is worth more than $15,000 on its own. It was probably just a semi-auto version of the Tommy gun, hence not a machine gun at all. Idiots.

Apologies for the snarkiness of the article.

GunnyFreedom
09-02-2011, 12:16 PM
There is a subtext lesson here. Secure your weapons properly if you can afford to. That usually means a safe - preferably a real one and not the typical "gun safe" such as Liberty, Champion, etc.

If you are well settled in a home, build a vault if you can. Eighteen inches of heavily reinforced concrete lined with 1" steel plate and a real vault door may not be perfect, but it will take cops one hell of a long time to get through. A floor safe, a real one, will be $$ as well, but once again it will make defeat much costlier to whomever may be attacking it. If you are mechanically inclined, you can build your own, but that is a fringe alternative.

If you use a "gun safe", you should secure it properly. For me, that would mean on a large concrete block (obviously not feasible in an apartment) cast into the floor. Bolt the safe to the block via LARGE steel flanges that are welded to the safe and the holes counterbored. The studs in the concrete pass through the holes in the flanges and are bolted down using McGard-style lug nuts. The nuts seat down into the counterbores and make extraction very difficult, barring the use of a cutting torch. Of course cops may resort to that, but at least you make them work much harder.

If you want to defeat cutting torches, use copper. That is how torch-resistant safes/vaults were built. Layers of copper alternating with the steel.

Some of us don't even have the money for a Champion or a Liberty, much less all of that.

pcosmar
09-02-2011, 12:43 PM
Some of us don't even have the money for a Champion or a Liberty, much less all of that.

Nor should there be a need.
I remember a time when most homes had a glass fronted display of the family firearms. Or a rack on the wall.

CaptainAmerica
09-02-2011, 12:54 PM
.45 acp and .357 magnums. 2 very common handgun calibers. This really pisses me off. The redcoats really love to take our guns, and our cars...how about they take our furniture too so they can go and furnish the station.

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 02:00 PM
Nor should there be a need.
I remember a time when most homes had a glass fronted display of the family firearms. Or a rack on the wall.

Still do.

I will not live in a prison out of fear of forced entry by bad guys with or without badges.

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 02:01 PM
.45 acp and .357 magnums. 2 very common handgun calibers. This really pisses me off. The redcoats really love to take our guns, and our cars...how about they take our furniture too so they can go and furnish the station.

Waiting to see how long it'll be before the 3rd Amendment is violated and we end up having to feed the fuckers dinner.

youngbuck
09-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Is it just me, or has a disproportionate amount of LEO thuggery been coming out of Ohio lately?

moostraks
09-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Still do.

I will not live in a prison out of fear of forced entry by bad guys with or without badges.

:( So we need to hide our guns in vaults, our children from social services, our dogs in crates, and our liberty dollars in jars in the yard. Tell me again how the terrorists hate us for our freedom...

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 02:16 PM
:( So we need to hide our guns in vaults, our children from social services, our dogs in crates, and our liberty dollars in jars in the yard. Tell me again how the terrorists hate us for our freedom...

No shit...+rep

1000-points-of-fright
09-02-2011, 03:01 PM
Apologies for the snarkiness of the article.

No apologies necessary. For some reason I thought it was the cops that said it was a sub-machine gun.

However, my comment stands. A sub-machine alone is worth $15K unless she got a really good deal on it.

Sjmfury
09-02-2011, 03:05 PM
This makes me glad to live in Florida! Gun Rights Galore! :D

heavenlyboy34
09-02-2011, 03:16 PM
So, the cops raid a home illegally, seize property, A YEAR AGO, no charges were filed, nothing was illegal, but yet the state still has them.
:eek: I'm always amazed that in spite of numerous, seemingly endless, stories like this (and even worse), some people insist that cops are necessary and private security is evil.

heavenlyboy34
09-02-2011, 03:20 PM
Nor should there be a need.
I remember a time when most homes had a glass fronted display of the family firearms. Or a rack on the wall.
I remember that too.(and I'm only 30!) My gandpa had one of those with several rifles and shotguns in it. In some areas, it's common to see stuffed heads of trophy bucks on the family room wall. :cool:

heavenlyboy34
09-02-2011, 03:22 PM
:( So we need to hide our guns in vaults, our children from social services, our dogs in crates, and our liberty dollars in jars in the yard. Tell me again how the terrorists hate us for our freedom...
Had to +rep that. How far the once mighty hath fallen. :(

Pericles
09-02-2011, 04:52 PM
waiting to see how long it'll be before the 3rd amendment is violated and we end up having to feed the fuckers dinner.

lmao :d

osan
09-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Some of us don't even have the money for a Champion or a Liberty, much less all of that.

I DID mention something about if you can afford to. Would that I could afford to build a vault to secure other things as well.


Nor should there be a need.
I remember a time when most homes had a glass fronted display of the family firearms. Or a rack on the wall.

Agreed, but here the normative and the positive are at wide variance. I should not have to arm myself against thieves and murderers, but government just cannot be trusted.

Czolgosz
09-02-2011, 05:50 PM
Waiting to see how long it'll be before the 3rd Amendment is violated and we end up having to feed the fuckers dinner.

They collect a paycheck and probably a killer pension off you and I.

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 05:51 PM
No apologies necessary. For some reason I thought it was the cops that said it was a sub-machine gun.

However, my comment stands. A sub-machine alone is worth $15K unless she got a really good deal on it.

No doubt.

But I'm pretty sure the lawsuit described as a semiauto.

Pericles
09-02-2011, 08:13 PM
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/armyarms.jpg

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 08:20 PM
Another journalist's guide to identify an AK47?


http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/armyarms.jpg

Pericles
09-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Another journalist's guide to identify an AK47?

That is it - wall full of AK-47s owned by a right wing militia extremist.

Just remember, AKs are brown, ARs are black, and M-16s are gray ......

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 08:29 PM
That is it - wall full of AK-47s owned by a right wing militia extremist.

Just remember, AKs are brown, ARs are black, and M-16s are gray ......

LoL - wonder how they would pigeonhole my FN/FALs?

Pericles
09-02-2011, 08:33 PM
LoL - wonder how they would pigeonhole my FN/FALs?

What color is it? Do we need a new color?

LibForestPaul
09-02-2011, 10:38 PM
This story makes no sense. Even less sense than Chewbacca living on Endor. The PD should be prosecuted for burglary.
Prosecuted by whom?
Arrested by whom?

Anti Federalist
09-02-2011, 10:45 PM
What color is it? Do we need a new color?

One is black, an older Century build.

The new one is similar to this:

http://762precision.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dsa-fal-eotech-combat-green-de.jpg

Dark green.

Pericles
09-02-2011, 10:58 PM
One is black, an older Century build.

The new one is similar to this:

http://762precision.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dsa-fal-eotech-combat-green-de.jpg

Dark green.

Don't know - too many colors might confuse the authorized journalists. But if it has a shoulder thingy that goes up, it can be called an assault weapon.

flightlesskiwi
09-02-2011, 11:26 PM
One is black, an older Century build.

The new one is similar to this:

http://762precision.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dsa-fal-eotech-combat-green-de.jpg

Dark green.

mmmm... yummy!!!

i want one!! (sorry to hijack)

heavenlyboy34
09-03-2011, 04:09 PM
mmmm... yummy!!!

i want one!! (sorry to hijack)
+1 :cool: