City Issues $1,000 Fines For Harboring Mosquitos

[Rael]

WARREN (WWJ) – The city of Warren is cracking down on those who harbor mosquitoes after the suspected death this week of a Macomb County man from the West Nile Virus.

Mayor Jim Fouts said those who have stagnant pools or ponds and other areas that harbor mosquitoes could face a $1,000 fine.

The mayor said Michigan was one of the top two states in both fatalities and serious illnesses caused by West Nile almost 10 years ago. Under the new plan, Fouts said said inspectors will look for pools of water in places like dumpsters, wheelbarrows, tires, pipes, drains and flower pots.

Homeowners will be given a warning and a chance to fix the problem.

“Every effort will be put forth to protect Warren residents against the dangers posed by mosquito infestation. This year is of particular concern because of the very heavy rain that this area has encountered in the last several months,” said Fouts, in a statement released Friday.

“It’s likely that if we cannot control mosquito breeding in early summer we will have to undergo heavy mosquito biting in late summer and early fall,” he said.

Fouts’ Mosquito Eradication, Education and Prevention program includes:

1) Property Maintenance inspectors will be trained by the engineering department for the proper use of the briquettes.

2) Property Maintenance inspectors will be directed to identify pools or ponds of water which would be ideal breeding grounds for mosquito’s. They will also identify other potential breeding areas for mosquitos such as dumpsters, wheelbarrows, tires, hubcaps, garden equipment, pool covers, pipes, drains, recycling bins, flower pots, buckets and clogged rain gutters.

3) Citizens will be encouraged to check the above items and make sure they are emptied of standing stagnant water.

4) If inspectors identify stagnant pools and other major sources of mosquito breeding homeowners will be notified that they must eliminate the problem or if not they may face fines up to $1000.

5) The Warren DPW will distribute the briquettes to the 18,000 catch basins.

6) The Recreation Department will direct and train their employees to identify and then treat places of standing water in the parks with “mosquito dunks” which are similarly shaped like hockey pucks. They dissolve in water and kill the larvae.

7) The Communication Dept will offer prevention and treatment tips to residents via their Newsbeat seasonal flyer which will be mailed out in July.

8) The city will also mail out mosquito information in its monthly water bill.

9) City will contact county officials to get their help in treating catch basins on county roads Van Dyke, Mound, and Schoenherr.

Fouts is encouraging officials in other Metro Detroit cities to adopt a smiliar plan.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/08/26/warren-cracks-down-on-those-who-harbor-mosquitoes/

[AgentOrange]

I don't understand why the government just doesn't outlaw mosquitoes. That has worked so well with drugs and assault weapons....

[bkreigh]

I know it is bad but i laughed when i read this. Fucking amazing.

[specialkornflake]

The use of violence to solve problems isn't the right way to do things, but if anyone does have stagnant water on their property they should fix it!

[Dr.3D]

I don't understand why the government just doesn't outlaw mosquitoes. That has worked so well with drugs and assault weapons....

No, that would only encourage a black market in mosquitoes.


/sarcasm

[asurfaholic]

So who lets an inspector on the property? Does 4th amendment not apply when theres a war on bugs?

[Kludge]

You guys have absolutely no idea how bad MI mosquitoes are. I'm visiting family in MI right now. I go out for ten minutes, get four bites which swell up quite a bit. Go out for another ten minutes, get bit right on my lip. Even with spray - go out for a walk for maybe 10m, and get four bites around my head. They're crazy-aggressive and more numerous than anywhere else I've ever been. My mom quit with her garden because the mosquitoes have become so intolerable.

I don't have a problem with this law. Yeah, at the heart of it, it's immoral...... But I'd never complain about this. I doubt this will be enforced much, if ever... More of a "quit keeping un-maintained standing water on your property!" message. The law makes the news, and hopefully people'll be more mindful of what they're doing (or not doing...).

[ItsTime]

So who lets an inspector on the property? Does 4th amendment not apply when theres a war on bugs?

They rely on neighbors to snitch.

[puppetmaster]

for those who don't want to use OFF or whatever the brand name is.....try using vanilla and water mixed together. about ten parts water to one part vanilla. seems to work for me.

[Petar]

The whole argument for limited government is that it should be as small and local as possible.

I think that unless you are an anarchist, then some local ordinance against harbouring mosquitos, which harm the community, may very well make a lot of sense.

Anarchists are of course not logical people though...

[asurfaholic]

I don't have a problem with this law. Yeah, at the heart of it, it's immoral...... But I'd never complain about this. I doubt this will be enforced much, if ever... More of a "quit keeping un-maintained standing water on your property!" message. The law makes the news, and hopefully people'll be more mindful of what they're doing (or not doing...).

Good point. I just cringe at the thought of some government worker gaining access to my property to look for monsters, regardless of size or intent.

[musicmax]

You guys have absolutely no idea how bad MI mosquitoes are. I'm visiting family in MI right now. I go out for ten minutes, get four bites which swell up quite a bit. Go out for another ten minutes, get bit right on my lip. Even with spray - go out for a walk for maybe 10m, and get four bites around my head. They're crazy-aggressive and more numerous than anywhere else I've ever been. My mom quit with her garden because the mosquitoes have become so intolerable.

Obviously not, if she still lives there.

[pcosmar]

Pools of water???

Ever hear of the Great Lakes? not to mention the hundreds of smaller lakes and ponds in the state.
I have 2 on my land.

[ghengis86]

Get some spray with DEET and you'll be fine.

[LibertyEagle]

Mosquitoes breed in stagnant water. I have no issue with local ordinances about this.

[Kludge]

Obviously not, if she still lives there.

"quit her garden." She isn't outside nearly as much.

[Nastynate]

The whole argument for limited government is that it should be as small and local as possible.

I think that unless you are an anarchist, then some local ordinance against harbouring mosquitos, which harm the community, may very well make a lot of sense.

Anarchists are of course not logical people though...

So I guess when an ordinance that passes that outlaws harboring ground hogs because they may tear up someones lawn, or make harboring moles, rabbits, snakes, or any other varmint that may cause damage to property or others. The thing is you can't really control creatures on your property. Who haven't left a bucket outside rained and now you have a breeding ground for misquotes. Should someone be fined because their house is infested with termites and there is a chance it can be spread to other homes. Wheres the line? Wouldn't persuasion be more affective than force by the government to live up to their standards. Couldn't with this ordinance give the cops probable cause to search your property for unattended puddles of water?

[angelatc]

You guys have absolutely no idea how bad MI mosquitoes are. I'm visiting family in MI right now. I go out for ten minutes, get four bites which swell up quite a bit. Go out for another ten minutes, get bit right on my lip. Even with spray - go out for a walk for maybe 10m, and get four bites around my head. They're crazy-aggressive and more numerous than anywhere else I've ever been. My mom quit with her garden because the mosquitoes have become so intolerable.

.

Get bats.

[pcosmar]

http://www.michigannative.com/images/mosquito.jpg


"Muskeeda": Mosquito. The State Bird of Michigan. Other states have tried that "it's our state bird" thing but they don't have 11,000+ lakes either. I've seen them carry away cats, sometimes even small children.
http://www.michigannative.com/ma_pronunciations.shtml

[pcosmar]

Get bats.

Got them, (some)
Want more, but "Honey" doesn't.

[angelatc]

Got them, (some)
Want more, but "Honey" doesn't.

You know what I'm talking about then. I had them in my roof in Florida. I can't seem to get them interested in setting up shop here though. They were never any problem, unless you were an insect.

[angelatc]

Couldn't with this ordinance give the cops probable cause to search your property for unattended puddles of water?

Better make sure those gutters are properly leveled.

[aGameOfThrones]

http://www.outinstyle.com/Merchant2/graphics/products/detail/RCO-9530_d.jpg

[Kludge]

Get bats.
Had bats. Got tennis rackets.

[limequat]

The whole argument for limited government is that it should be as small and local as possible.

I think that unless you are an anarchist, then some local ordinance against harbouring mosquitos, which harm the community, may very well make a lot of sense.

Anarchists are of course not logical people though...

1) I am an anarchist and take exception to your generalization.

2) The end goal of "small and local" is the individual

3) Tyranny at any level is still tyranny

[limequat]

So I guess when an ordinance that passes that outlaws harboring ground hogs because they may tear up someones lawn, or make harboring moles, rabbits, snakes, or any other varmint that may cause damage to property or others. The thing is you can't really control creatures on your property. Who haven't left a bucket outside rained and now you have a breeding ground for misquotes. Should someone be fined because their house is infested with termites and there is a chance it can be spread to other homes. Wheres the line? Wouldn't persuasion be more affective than force by the government to live up to their standards. Couldn't with this ordinance give the cops probable cause to search your property for unattended puddles of water?

+rep

This is dangerous and warren cops have shown lack of discretion in the past.

[idirtify]

Interesting thread, since I’m just recovering from West Nile Fever. Even though mosquitoes only breed in bodies of water that are too temporary and small for fish, it’s foolish to think all breeding pools can be eliminated/treated. Considering my present predicament and newfound hatred for the bloodsuckers, I have been investigating solutions. Once again, technology, NOT government, would seem to be the answer. Bug zappers have come a long way:
http://www.amazon.com/Mosquito-Magnet-MM4000-Defender-Trap/dp/B000094YKM
Mosquito Magnet MM4000 Defender Mosquito Trap by Mosquito Magnet
These sound great and are supposed to work even better if your neighbors have them too.

BTW, lots of cities already have such ordinances, including mine. They don’t do much good. In fact, the worst offender around here is the city, with two gigantic mosquito ponds on their property just over the hill from me (yes, the city’s mosquitos probably gave me West Nile).

[pcosmar]

Even though mosquitoes only breed in bodies of water that are too temporary and small for fish, it’s foolish to think all breeding pools can be eliminated/treated..

False assumption. mosquitoes breed in any water they can find.
They breed in and around lakes and rivers where water is relatively still, (pools and inlets) as well as any ditch or puddle that collects rain.
They will breed in sewer water and storm drains. You are correct that it is foolish.

It is virtually impossible to eliminate them anywhere there is water at all.
This is nothing but an excuse for government to invade property and increase revenue.

[Dr.3D]

Get bats.

I have around 300 of them living in my attic. I never have much of a problem with Mosquitoes.

[FSP-Rebel]

You guys have absolutely no idea how bad MI mosquitoes are. I'm visiting family in MI right now. I go out for ten minutes, get four bites which swell up quite a bit. Go out for another ten minutes, get bit right on my lip. Even with spray - go out for a walk for maybe 10m, and get four bites around my head. They're crazy-aggressive and more numerous than anywhere else I've ever been. My mom quit with her garden because the mosquitoes have become so intolerable.

I don't have a problem with this law. Yeah, at the heart of it, it's immoral...... But I'd never complain about this. I doubt this will be enforced much, if ever... More of a "quit keeping un-maintained standing water on your property!" message. The law makes the news, and hopefully people'll be more mindful of what they're doing (or not doing...).
^^This is so true. It's truly like an epidemic has arisen over the last month and a half or so. It would be one thing if the bugs were confined to the area in which they spawned but they migrate all over the place and literally affect any person that spends just a little bit of time outside. Not that I don't use repellent but I'm not always trying to shower immediately after being outdoors. We have a pool, water pond and a creek but all are moving consistently. I'm all for personal responsibility here but damn, I've just had enough of these skeeters.

[Rothbardian Girl]

Mosquitoes breed in stagnant water. I have no issue with local ordinances about this.
Agreed... I draw a parallel to this and leaving junk on your property that breeds all kinds of disgusting vermin that invade other peoples' houses. I mean, the enforcement angle of this law seems silly and no one would approve of SWAT-style raids for having a stagnant pool in your backyard, but if you're infected with West Nile or yellow fever from your neighbor not taking care of his or her property, perhaps there should be some legal recourse for that. Just throwing this out there.

Actually, I don't really like the idea of a fine for this just because it's giving money back to the state, which can't get bitten by mosquitoes. Maybe I don't really like this idea after all... but there should be some kind of legal means to pay the costs of your medical bills if you end up in the hospital or whatever from transmissible diseases.

[pcosmar]

I have around 300 of them living in my attic. I never have much of a problem with Mosquitoes.

I have a couple that I see regularly, maybe a half dozen at times.
I wish I had a bunch. They will keep the bug populations down.

[Dr.3D]

I have a couple that I see regularly, maybe a half dozen at times.
I wish I had a bunch. They will keep the bug populations down.

Sure, I have one or two young males that get into the living quarters every year, but I just wrap them in a towel and take them outdoors. I like the bats and it's fun to watch them silently fly around eating those nasty bugs.

[freeforall]

I think educating the public about stagnant water and how to prevent and/or get rid of mosquiotos would be far more effective and cost-effective than all the beauracracy and fines. However, I'm not from Michigan and believe the people their can have the laws that suit them.

[pcosmar]

However, I'm not from Michigan and believe the people their can have the laws that suit them.

Fortunately I am in the Upper Peninsula and that (Warren) is in the Lower. It doesn't directly affect me.

However it has been my experience that most of these laws and ordinances are imposed,,, not chosen.

[Corydoras]

BTW, lots of cities already have such ordinances, including mine. They don’t do much good. In fact, the worst offender around here is the city, with two gigantic mosquito ponds on their property just over the hill from me (yes, the city’s mosquitos probably gave me West Nile).

Sneak a couple of bags of feeder guppies into the water to eat mosquito larvae.

[LibertyEagle]

Agreed... I draw a parallel to this and leaving junk on your property that breeds all kinds of disgusting vermin that invade other peoples' houses. I mean, the enforcement angle of this law seems silly and no one would approve of SWAT-style raids for having a stagnant pool in your backyard, but if you're infected with West Nile or yellow fever from your neighbor not taking care of his or her property, perhaps there should be some legal recourse for that. Just throwing this out there.

Actually, I don't really like the idea of a fine for this just because it's giving money back to the state, which can't get bitten by mosquitoes. Maybe I don't really like this idea after all... but there should be some kind of legal means to pay the costs of your medical bills if you end up in the hospital or whatever from transmissible diseases.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this too. The best thing for government to do would be just public service messages when there are West Nile outbreaks, warning people about stagnant pools of water. I was just thinking about the asshole who would refuse and relished the thought that he had a mosquito breeding ground. But in this day and age, the thought of enabling government to stormtroop someone's property, well, I sure wouldn't want to enable or endorse that.

[belian78]

I tell you what that's honest truth, I never believed my sister when she told me but dryer sheets keep mosquitoes away better than anything I've ever experienced. Take one and rub it on your arms and legs, then keep one in your back pocket, you wont have a problem at all. I'll swear by that. LOL

[limequat]

Fortunately I am in the Upper Peninsula and that (Warren) is in the Lower. It doesn't directly affect me.

However it has been my experience that most of these laws and ordinances are imposed,,, not chosen.

Exactly. I live in Warren and don't recall being given the opportunity to vote on this.

[oyarde]

If I recall , mosquitos will lay on the ground in abscence of water and wait for rain.

[oyarde]

Fish ( and bats , Martins , quail ) are very beneficial , they will eat them .

[oyarde]

I suppose if there are any permanent waters that do not have fish , we should add them.

[oyarde]

I tell you what that's honest truth, I never believed my sister when she told me but dryer sheets keep mosquitoes away better than anything I've ever experienced. Take one and rub it on your arms and legs, then keep one in your back pocket, you wont have a problem at all. I'll swear by that. LOL Wonder what is in them that would work ?

[oyarde]

Mosquitos can hone in on your exhale and your sweat . It is the females that bite , they need the blood for egg production.

[oyarde]

Besides deet , Euculyptus works some , I have used inside of orange peel on skin .

[Corydoras]

I suppose if there are any permanent waters that do not have fish , we should add them.

There's a reason guppies used to be called "mosquito fish." They love to eat mosquito larvae. Guppies breed very fast, and they don't survive winters. If you're in a temperate climate, put them in a body of water in early summer every year and let 'em breed. They won't get established, so they aren't invasive.

[Rael]

I have had success using Cutter Backyard Bug Control for mosquitoes, however it does not work for 8 weeks like the bottle says (at least not for mosquitoes) I find it only controls them for about 10-14 days

[MelissaCato]

I feel bad for the early morning song birds, it's only a matter of time before it's illegal to feed and house those darling creatures.

[MelissaCato]

Fish ( and bats , Martins , quail ) are very beneficial , they will eat them .

Spiders too. I dunno what the name of them are but they are big and fat, brown and black. Mosquitos used to be very bad around my place till I allowed these spiders to web all over outside. Haven't seen a mosquito since. I'm assuming the black ones are the males because when the black one climbs into the brown ones web she kills it after a night or so. LMAO

[oyarde]

There's a reason guppies used to be called "mosquito fish." They love to eat mosquito larvae. Guppies breed very fast, and they don't survive winters. If you're in a temperate climate, put them in a body of water in early summer every year and let 'em breed. They won't get established, so they aren't invasive. Yes , looks like the guppies would be best for permanent waters where you do not want a permanent population. If you do want a permanent population , looks like the best way to go , in order is ,Dragonflies , Bass , Bluegill , Fathead minnows . The minnows would be the cheapest , just your standard Crappie minnow from the bait shop . There is a fishery about an hour and a half from me that will sell 1000 for $35 .

[oyarde]

Bottom line on that ordinance though , is this ; while it may be fine to encourage people not to harbor mosquito habitat , the $1000 fine is tyranical , excessive and should be supported and paid by no person.

[angelatc]

Yes , looks like the guppies would be best for permanent waters where you do not want a permanent population. If you do want a permanent population , looks like the best way to go , in order is ,Dragonflies , Bass , Bluegill , Fathead minnows . The minnows would be the cheapest , just your standard Crappie minnow from the bait shop . The is a fishery about an hour and a half from me that will sell 1000 for $35 .

In indiana, the DNR would come add mosquito fish (http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/mosquito-fish/) to ornamental ponds for no charge.

[oyarde]

In indiana, the DNR would come add mosquito fish (http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/mosquito-fish/) to ornamental ponds for no charge. Good info , I always kept goldfish in my ornamental pond at my previous residence , they eat mosquito larva too .

[Krugerrand]

FYI ... here are some oldie but goodie threads on mosquitoes:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?195536-Mosquito-repellent

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?194937-What-do-you-do-about-mosquitoes

[Kludge]

Totally agree education is preferable to laws, but I believe this law does educate to an extent - and it's free. Look at the information we've accumulated just from the responses in this thread. Laws make people talk, even if they aren't enforced. Hell - we already came up with theories about how this will create a black market for mosquitoes -- think about what sane people in public are talking about!

[Danke]

Mosquitoes are proof God does not exist.

[oyarde]

One thing about the mosquito fish , do not add them anywhere there is native populations of fish , they will out compete all of the other feeder fish , minnows etc.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I don't see why so many people are so against this. It's causing their neighbors harm, so the town has the right to do something IMO. It's not different than having a beehive on your property stinging all your neighbors. I had a neighbor with a pool and the mosquitoes would nest there from water that collected on the cover. Pain in the arse.

[oyarde]

I don't see why so many people are so against this. It's causing their neighbors harm, so the town has the right to do something IMO. It's not different than having a beehive on your property stinging all your neighbors. I had a neighbor with a pool and the mosquitoes would nest there from water that collected on the cover. Pain in the arse. I cannot really think of any ordinance that a 1000 dollar fine would be acceptable . In fact , there should be legislation that maximum fine for anything can not exceed the avg take home wage of one day for ea state .

[limequat]

I don't see why so many people are so against this. It's causing their neighbors harm, so the town has the right to do something IMO. It's not different than having a beehive on your property stinging all your neighbors. I had a neighbor with a pool and the mosquitoes would nest there from water that collected on the cover. Pain in the arse.

We're against it because it's unnecessary, obtrusive, invasive, big government. We typically think that if there is a problem, it is best handled personally or by the free-market. Government "solutions" are usually the opposite. How long before the undesireables start getting tickets for having mud puddles in their driveways after a rain storm?

[Rael]

I don't see why so many people are so against this. It's causing their neighbors harm, so the town has the right to do something IMO. It's not different than having a beehive on your property stinging all your neighbors. I had a neighbor with a pool and the mosquitoes would nest there from water that collected on the cover. Pain in the arse.

Sounds like a civil issue to me. The neighbors should sue if they can prove damages and prove that the neighbors cause it. Leave the government out of it.

[pcosmar]

Sounds like a civil issue to me. The neighbors should sue if they can prove damages and prove that the neighbors cause it. Leave the government out of it.

Exactly, Prove that the mosquito that bit you was born and raised in a particular drop of water on someone's property.
And that it was either deliberate of negligence. (they should not have allowed dew on their lawn)

;)

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Sounds like a civil issue to me. The neighbors should sue if they can prove damages and prove that the neighbors cause it. Leave the government out of it.It's pretty serious if the mosquitoes are carrying a virus that can potentially kill somebody. Sue them after they're dead?

[puppetmaster]

It's pretty serious if the mosquitoes are carrying a virus that can potentially kill somebody. Sue them after they're dead?

prove it came from a specific water source.......not going to happen

[Kludge]

prove it came from a specific water source.......not going to happen

So were there private courts, they'd have to consider it reckless endangerment and then..... issue a fine, effectively creating a precedent that you'll be fined if you allow too much standing water to breed mosquitoes on your land.

Or put another way, government will create a de facto law against harboring mosquitoes with fines.

[pcosmar]

Or put another way, government will create a de facto law against harboring mosquitoes with fines.

Isn't that what they just did? along with suspending the 4th Amendment.

:(