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View Full Version : Unbelievable Chasm Between Young and Old




centure7
08-25-2011, 10:39 AM
Among 18 to 29 year-olds, Paul scores a strong leading position at 29%. Among 65+ year-olds, Paul scores a far trailing position at 4%.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gallup-perry-leading-nationally-romney-second-paul-third-212542697.html

I can only speculate that Paul's position on Social Security is doing him in with the older crowd. I think the way to overcome this is to emphasize his ability to cut spending on military programs to keep Social Security funded longer.

Paul is also getting shorted on votes by regular church-goers. I think the best way to solve this problem would be to attempt to force Perry to make a position on evolution. We all know Paul will get punished for his likely view that evolution never happened. However, Perry needs to get punished by church-goers for his likely view that evolution did happen. My own opinion is that you'd be a fool to chose a president based on their view of evolution. We have actual real things to worry about like wars and economic collapse. But that is the way it goes in political reality. I've met Paul in person and if there is one thing that is obvious its he's a very strong Christian. The religious vote needs to be turned upside down and its only a question of how.

Conza88
08-25-2011, 10:45 AM
The idea of liberty is young.

"Armed with this knowledge, let him proceed in the spirit of radical long-run optimism that one of the great figures in the history of libertarian thought, Randolph Bourne (http://mises.org/daily/5308/The-Brilliance-of-Randolph-Bourne), correctly identified as the spirit of youth. Let Bourne’s stirring words serve also as the guidepost for the spirit of liberty:



[Y]outh is the incarnation of reason pitted against the rigidity of tradition; youth puts the remorseless questions to everything that is old and established – Why? What is this thing good for? And when it gets the mumbled, evasive answers of the defenders it applies its own fresh, clean spirit of reason to institutions, customs and ideas and finding them stupid, inane or poisonous, turns instinctively to overthrow them and build in their place the things with which its visions teem.

Youth is the leaven that keeps all these questioning, testing attitudes fermenting in the world. If it were not for this troublesome activity of youth, with its hatred of sophisms and glosses, its insistence on things as they are, society would die from sheer decay. It is the policy of the older generation as it gets adjusted to the world to hide away the unpleasant things where it can, or preserve a conspiracy of silence and an elaborate pretense that they do not exist. But meanwhile the sores go on festering just the same. Youth is the drastic antiseptic. It drags skeletons from closets and insists that they be explained. No wonder the older generation fears and distrusts the younger. Youth is the avenging Nemesis on its trail.

Our elders are always optimistic in their views of the present, pessimistic in their views of the future; youth is pessimistic toward the present and gloriously hopeful for the future. And it is this hope which is the lever of progress – one might say, the only lever of progress.

The secret of life is then that this fine youthful spirit shall never be lost. Out of the turbulence of youth should come this fine precipitate – a sane, strong, aggressive spirit of daring and doing. It must be a flexible, growing spirit, with a hospitality to new ideas and a keen insight into experience. To keep one’s reactions warm and true is to have found the secret of perpetual youth, and perpetual youth is salvation."

Excerpted from Left and Right: The Prospects for Liberty (http://www.la.org.au/opinion/291109/left-and-right-prospects-liberty) by Murray N. Rothbard.

HOLLYWOOD
08-25-2011, 10:48 AM
Has the RP campaign addressed the horrific numbers in the female and over 50 crowd yet? I haven't seen no gains in 4 years with those two groups.

jason43
08-25-2011, 10:51 AM
This is entirely to do with where these age demographics get their news. The younger people tend to get their news from the internet. The others are watching the news on TV and newspapers. And if you havent seen our coverage on TV lately, its either not there or it is negative. At least thats my take on it.

dirtfarmerz
08-25-2011, 10:53 AM
The problems church-goers have with Ron Paul are his perceived positions on Iran and Israel. In other words, allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons and leaving Israel to twist in the wind all by herself surrounded by hostile countries. Trust me, these two things are why more Christians do not support Ron Paul not the evolution issue. The article by Doug Wead here: www.newsmax.com/DougWead/iran-nuclear-assad-syria/2011/08/24/id/408529 will go a long way toward correcting those myths and I intend to hand it out to my Christian friends as soon as possible.

jason43
08-25-2011, 11:07 AM
This needs to be a major push in the grassroots. You all realize that if we reach out to and successfully convert the older demographic, we would be leading overall? This is huge news, and a huge opportunity for the campaign. We need a strategy discussion on this issue.

orenbus
08-25-2011, 11:07 AM
This further supports the argument that although online activities are fun and motivate and inspire our base and recruit others in the younger age brackets it does absolutely little to communicate with older generations. How to combat this? Door to door canvassing, the younger generation will need to actually go outside and do some walking in order to spread the message to those that would no other way hear it. You would be surprised how older registered Republican voters react when they see a 20 or 30 something knocking on their door handing out literature and promoting Ron Paul. Makes them do a double take, there is nothing more powerful to those that are registered Republican over 50 crowd than seeing a young generation take up the mantle and get involved.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0apYcClSHTk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghzAU65ExMY&playnext=1&list=PLF62CA1AC562FAAFF
(video from 2007)

dannno
08-25-2011, 11:26 AM
Has the RP campaign addressed the horrific numbers in the female and over 50 crowd yet? I haven't seen no gains in 4 years with those two groups.

Ya I don't understand this at all.. my mom is in this demographic and was the easiest person to convert of all, I just sent her some videos and she said she agreed with everything and that he sounded like some of the Republicans she heard when she was a kid.

tangent4ronpaul
08-25-2011, 11:29 AM
This further supports the argument that although online activities are fun and motivate and inspire our base and recruit others in the younger age brackets it does absolutely little to communicate with older generations. How to combat this? Door to door canvassing, the younger generation will need to actually go outside and do some walking in order to spread the message to those that would no other way hear it. You would be how surprised how older registered Republican voters are when they see a 20 or 30 something knocking on their door handing out literature and promoting Ron Paul. Makes them a double take, there is nothing more powerful to those that are registered Republican over 50 crowd than seeing a young generation take up the part mantle and get involved.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0apYcClSHTk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nOMmpIviic


Go tell it to YAL.

My personal experience is that YAL took all the young people that had time and energy and focused their attention at their college campuses. My meetup had barely any young people and we tried to reach out to YAL chapters but got narry a reply. The mostly 30's to 60's in the group were ok with tabeling, sign waves and making/hanging banners - but going door to door? - naw. They were perfectly willing to dig deep and contribute money for supplies for said door to door activities - but there was no one to actually go door to door.

-t

erowe1
08-25-2011, 11:30 AM
I think the way to overcome this is to emphasize his ability to cut spending on military programs to keep Social Security funded longer.
Older people don't like that either. All the presidents they idolize were big war hawks.

FreeTraveler
08-25-2011, 11:44 AM
Ya I don't understand this at all.. my mom is in this demographic and was the easiest person to convert of all, I just sent her some videos and she said she agreed with everything and that he sounded like some of the Republicans she heard when she was a kid.
Yep. Mom's 91 and was an easy convert. I'm 59 (gasp!) and apparently need to remind you that some of us have been fighting the good fight not just since 1988, but even in the 1960's.

Lots of old hippies out there, as well as many more 'sell-outs' who remember the idealism of their youth, and what they expected the future to be like. This ain't it.

They're easy converts. Believe me.

jason43
08-25-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm pretty sure Alexis^^^ could convert any male over 50. hahaha

Really Iowa and NH need to be the focus. I think campaigning somewhere like VA where I am is good in general, I've talked to my parents and grandparents and made them all watch the DVD and they were into it, but I'm afraid that by the time my family and I actually get to vote in the primary, the nomination will be either won or lost...

orenbus
08-25-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm pretty sure Alexis^^^ could convert any male over 50. hahaha

Really Iowa and NH need to be the focus. I think campaigning somewhere like VA where I am is good in general, I've talked to my parents and grandparents and made them all watch the DVD and they were into it, but I'm afraid that by the time my family and I actually get to vote in the primary, the nomination will be either won or lost...

It's so true, in 2007 I was new to national politics and how the primaries and caucuses worked and their impact on other states. I worked mostly on netroots activites promoting videos, using social networking etc. At the same time I was doing local grassroots stuff like sign waves and putting up signs in my state, unfortunately it comes after super tuesday. Finally in the fall and winter I started to get involved in NH and once I got up there I was completely shocked at the work that was needed. Many of us assumed because there was so much activity in our own states that NH was a done deal.

Now I'm not saying those other activites aren't important because they are, but we need to get our priorities straight. For many of us in 2007 figuring out where our weakness was came too late for many of us to do anything about it. The door to door canvassing in early primary states is so essential to winning the campaign I can't over stress it enough.

orenbus
08-25-2011, 12:02 PM
Go tell it to YAL.

My personal experience is that YAL took all the young people that had time and energy and focused their attention at their college campuses. My meetup had barely any young people and we tried to reach out to YAL chapters but got narry a reply. The mostly 30's to 60's in the group were ok with tabeling, sign waves and making/hanging banners - but going door to door? - naw. They were perfectly willing to dig deep and contribute money for supplies for said door to door activities - but there was no one to actually go door to door.

-t

That is sad to hear, I mean working at college campuses and recruiting is something that is needed no doubt. We need more volunteers that have the time, motivation and energy but then we need give those people activities and some leadership on what projects to take on door to door canvassing being one of them. I have a feeling they YAL will most likely agree but just have canvassing on the back burner right now and may push it closer to the primary, unfortunately that is the same mistake we made in 2007 and much of the work that was needed did not get done. With any luck they will realize it this time around and do something about it. Although some would argue that timing is important, it's equally important or perhaps more so to lay down the ground work and foundation to build on.

jumpyg1258
08-25-2011, 12:03 PM
I think one of the main reasons why Christians don't like Ron is that he is a lot like Jesus preaching about being peaceful with our neighbors. Most Christians I have met in my lifetime are big hypocrites. One of the reasons my parents aren't supporting Ron is cause of his views on social security. That tells me that they value getting a tiny paycheck each month over the lives of countless innocent victims we are creating overseas.

Tod
08-25-2011, 12:58 PM
I think most older conservative Christians would probably have a number of objections to Ron Paul's positions, not just one objection. However, with some thought and a concise message that addresses those likely objections, I'm sure many could be shown "the light".

Foreign Wars: Many people who haven't put much thought into Dr. Paul's reasoning perceive his stance as weak and appeasing towards "evil" regimes.
Drug War: Very similar to the Foreign Wars. They feel that to legalize drug use is tantamount to an endorsement of drugs use/abuse.
End The Fed: I'm sure most people don't have much of a clue as to why he is so big on that and the only opposition there is fear of the unknown ~ it is an institution that has always been there (in their lives), so surely "it must be important".
End the IRS/Income Tax: Fear of the unknown again. Without that pesky tax, might not our society become unstable? How would government function?

How does Ron Paul stand on Unions? I know he favors "Right to Work", but does he think federal employees have the right to unionize and/or strike? I've never seen that addressed. A lot of people here in Ohio are concerned about this issue and there is currently a battle going on between our state government and pro-union people, very similar to what happened in Wisconsin.

Some things many older conservative Christians will like are Dr. Paul's stance on abortion, healthcare (more complicated to explain), illegal immigration, energy, and his 2nd Amendment position, all things liberals will have big problems with.

mczerone
08-25-2011, 01:04 PM
I think one of the main reasons why Christians don't like Ron is that he is a lot like Jesus preaching about being peaceful with our neighbors. Most Christians I have met in my lifetime are big hypocrites. One of the reasons my parents aren't supporting Ron is cause of his views on social security. That tells me that they value getting a tiny paycheck each month over the lives of countless innocent victims we are creating overseas.

But they don't have to choose between them - Ron Paul is the only candidate who has a plan to save the current SS/Medicare dependents.

If they vote for anyone else, they'll likely lose both their paychecks and their grandkids.

dannno
08-25-2011, 01:10 PM
I think one of the main reasons why Christians don't like Ron is that he is a lot like Jesus preaching about being peaceful with our neighbors. Most Christians I have met in my lifetime are big hypocrites. One of the reasons my parents aren't supporting Ron is cause of his views on social security. That tells me that they value getting a tiny paycheck each month over the lives of countless innocent victims we are creating overseas.

Ya your parents obviously don't understand his position..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT3NDKtf5BA

Feeding the Abscess
08-25-2011, 01:31 PM
Old Republicans watch O'Reilly and Fox News religiously. That's why Ron does so poorly with that crowd.

lucky_bg
08-25-2011, 02:03 PM
This is entirely to do with where these age demographics get their news. The younger people tend to get their news from the internet. The others are watching the news on TV and newspapers. And if you havent seen our coverage on TV lately, its either not there or it is negative. At least thats my take on it.

exactly

Shane Harris
08-25-2011, 02:05 PM
Old Republicans watch O'Reilly and Fox News religiously. That's why Ron does so poorly with that crowd.

this. believe it or not they are more used to no thinking about politics than anyone else. they are often stubborn as hell and very influenced by the talking heads and the soundbytes

brandon
08-25-2011, 02:06 PM
I think the problem is older people don't go on the internet much and rely on MSM and talk radio for their primary news and information source.

Kind of ironic that Ron is the oldest candidate running for president and get the least support from old people!

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 02:13 PM
I think one of the main reasons why Christians don't like Ron is that he is a lot like Jesus preaching about being peaceful with our neighbors. Most Christians I have met in my lifetime are big hypocrites. One of the reasons my parents aren't supporting Ron is cause of his views on social security. That tells me that they value getting a tiny paycheck each month over the lives of countless innocent victims we are creating overseas.

Why would they be worried about Social Security under a Ron Paul presidency? He is the only candidate who has a plan that will keep Social Security solvent and the checks still coming for those already on it and those close to retiring. His plan will also work to stabilize the dollar, so that inflation does not eat up their Social Security checks.

That is the message you should be sending.

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 02:16 PM
I think the problem is older people don't go on the internet much and rely on MSM and talk radio for their primary news and information source.

Kind of ironic that Ron is the oldest candidate running for president and get the least support from old people!

No, the problem is that more of us are not getting off the internet and going out into our communities and talking to likely Republican voters. They are not going to come to us. We have to go to them.

FreeTraveler
08-25-2011, 02:18 PM
No, the problem is that more of us are not getting off the internet and going out into our communities and talking to likely Republican voters. They are not going to come to us. We have to go to them.
But it's so much easier to demonize older voters than it is to, you know, actually talk to them. Those wrinkles might rub off!

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 02:18 PM
But they don't have to choose between them - Ron Paul is the only candidate who has a plan to save the current SS/Medicare dependents.

If they vote for anyone else, they'll likely lose both their paychecks and their grandkids.

DING, DING, DING. WINNER!

That, and also keep the dollar worth something. Right now, their checks are getting eaten up by inflation and it is only going to get much worse unless they elect Congressman Paul.

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 02:24 PM
This further supports the argument that although online activities are fun and motivate and inspire our base and recruit others in the younger age brackets it does absolutely little to communicate with older generations. How to combat this? Door to door canvassing, the younger generation will need to actually go outside and do some walking in order to spread the message to those that would no other way hear it. You would be surprised how older registered Republican voters react when they see a 20 or 30 something knocking on their door handing out literature and promoting Ron Paul. Makes them do a double take, there is nothing more powerful to those that are registered Republican over 50 crowd than seeing a young generation take up the mantle and get involved.



This is critical. If we want to win. We have to go back to the basics. There are tried and true ways of winning elections. Becoming precinct leaders, delegates, identifying likely Republican voters, getting out the vote, etc. How many here have volunteered with the campaign to call voters? They have a system in place and the calling is going on right now.

kahless
08-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Your typical retiree has Foxnews on all day and listens to Hannity's radio show. Internet saavy ones spend their time on MSM websites. Their entire life they have been fed by the MSM and Hollywood, the Neocon form of patriotism. This should be of no surprise.

dusman
08-25-2011, 02:30 PM
Sigh... I've avoided bingo halls for a reason, but now I suppose I'll have to start "trolling" them.

Everytime I get a bingo.. I'm going to yell "Ron Paul! Bingo! Ron Paul!"

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 02:42 PM
The idea of liberty is young.

Yes, the idea of liberty is young, but the belief in it is not limited just to young people. If it was, the young people would not have swarmed around Barack Obama like they did.

--------------

Folks, older Americans are not some kind of enigma. They are regular people. The interesting thing is that while many young people have absolutely no respect whatsoever for the Constitution, a great many older people do. Even though they may have forgotten some of the specifics and the importance in not swaying from that rule of law.

I agree with Tod on some of the issues he brings out in his post, above, are probably stopping points for some. If these were cleared up, I do believe many more would be supporting Paul. As much as some may hate what I am going to say, Paul's message needs to be targeted to likely Republican voters. In other words, traditional conservatives, for the most part. He CAN win them over. I know, because I am one of them. The message just needs to be phrased in a way that they can hear.

The other issue that we are dealing with is that a whole ton of people out there have not seen the debates, nor do they know much of anything about Ron Paul. I spoke to my sister in Alabama today and she told me people there are still going big for Perry. I asked her why and the reason was just as I suspected. They have heard he's "a good Christian man". See, people, they don't know anything else about Perry, so they will vote based on the only thing they have heard. The solution is NOT to take the tack that Robert Morrow did, but to publish Perry's record, in a professional and informative manner, showing that his record does not match his rhetoric. His record alone will make Christians question what they have heard about him being a "good Christian man". Right now, they simply do not know. We can either come up with a professional plan to inform them of his record, or we can sit here bemoaning the fact that they do not know what we know about him by osmosis. The choice is ours.

Ok, we are empowered. What are we going to do about it? :)

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 02:49 PM
Your typical retiree has Foxnews on all day and listens to Hannity's radio show. Internet saavy ones spend their time on MSM websites. Their entire life they have been fed by the MSM and Hollywood, the Neocon form of patriotism. This should be of no surprise.

Not everyone who doesn't live on the internet is a neocon, you know. Nor does not understanding Paul's position on Iran, a neocon make.

-------------------------

Come on, people. You are taking the easy way out. There are a ton of traditional conservatives out there who love their country and are scared to death about what they see happening to it. We just have to reach them where they live, in their own terminology.

I know you didn't say this kahless, but I want to say that while chanting END THE FED, or RON PAUL, might be impressive to people who already follow him, it does very little to anyone else. Especially older voters. If anything, it's a turnoff.

Moo2400
08-25-2011, 02:51 PM
I think the reason why the gap of support for Ron Paul between the young and old is fairly obvious - Ron Paul's support base grew from the internet, and typically it's the young rather than the old which makes the greatest use of the internet. The old gets most of their news from watching the mainstream media, which as we know ignores Ron Paul, or if they do talk about him they usually do in a negative light. The lack of support for Ron Paul among the old is therefore no surprise.

We need to find ways to reach that demographic, which involves much more than just spamming an area with Ron Paul signs. If we do it successfully, I think we'll be able to convert a large number of them; perhaps not as much as the younger population because it is true that the older you are, the more you tend to support the status quo, but we could make some real headway there. The older population certainly has plenty of concerns and gripes about social security, medicare, and savings that Ron Paul can address and appeal to, as mentioned in this thread. I don't think it does us any good to demonize older republicans as neocons, hypocrites, and stubborn fools, because there's most assuredly a great number of them who are reasonable and intelligent.

kahless
08-25-2011, 03:13 PM
Not everyone who doesn't live on the internet is a neocon, you know. Nor does not understanding Paul's position on Iran, a neocon make.


I agree but people are led very easily to that camp. The lovable personalities and daily routine reading MSM newspapers is like putting on a comfortable old slipper. It becomes a personal relationship for some as if these are their friends. Unless we can break into that we are going to have an up-hill battle refuting the anti-Paul propaganda from these outlets.

eleganz
08-25-2011, 03:31 PM
Tell them the best chance they have of getting their entitlements is if we cut spending because if we keep getting our credit ratings dropped and eventually defaulting they won't be getting jack squat of what they put into it.

The other day I was telling my mom about the economy and how it is possible she could get social security cut and she was very surprised and was worried. It isn't hard to convert older people on social security, there is only one way to keep sending those checks out and that is if we lower spending and not be on the fence of bankruptcy everyday.

LibertyEagle
08-25-2011, 03:46 PM
I agree but people are led very easily to that camp. The lovable personalities and daily routine reading MSM newspapers is like putting on a comfortable old slipper. It becomes a personal relationship for some as if these are their friends. Unless we can break into that we are going to have an up-hill battle refuting the anti-Paul propaganda from these outlets.

They've been propagandized, yes. But, did you view the pictures from the Iowa Straw Poll? Did you see the mix of ages and yes, there were a large number of older women there too. And all listening to Dr. Paul in front of his tent, wearing I voted for Ron Paul shirts. :)

A number of Iowa supporters had spent months on end preparing for that day. Doing things from tabling at almost every gun show in Iowa, to listening to the concerns of their neighbors. In addition to that, Ron Paul spent a lot of time in Iowa explaining his positions, answering questions, identifying likely Republican voters and calling them.

Thing is, the campaign doesn't have the money, or the time, to put in this kind of effort in every state. If we want Ron Paul to win, we are going to have to step up to the plate. This campaign will be won on the ground, or not at all. If we want him to win, we have to get involved in our local Republican party, become a precinct leader, find out what it takes to be a delegate and get delegate training, identify likely Republican voters in our precinct and begin the process.

tangent4ronpaul
08-25-2011, 04:23 PM
Paul did mention that the crowds had changed. More older folks.

Those nearing retirement are scared about his comments on phasing out SS and raising the retirement age.realistically an employer is going to lay off an older worker and hire younger. They cost less. Also, they don't get that he will save SS.

Gun shows in IA? - I heard of one being tabled. That's it. We really covered the fairs though.

I'd brought up starting projects in early states - as in sub-forums, and it didn't go anywhere. Also, sharing knowledge about setting up phone banks - and people are too protective of their respective niche's - even if they can't do that much phone banking. Obama has phone banks in every major city. We need to also.

If we focused on on the pre-super Tuesday states and the ones on super Tuesday, enough wins could trigger lemming behavior with the rest. That's what 15-20 states? - a lot more managable.

-t