Adam VS. The Man CANCELED

[IndianaPolitico]

http://www.facebook.com/KokeshforCongress

According to Kokesh's facebook, Adam VS. The Man has aired its final show. Thoughts?

[BUSHLIED]

I wonder what the reason was? Was it poor ratings? Was it lack of interest? OR was it something else like Adam's support of Ron Paul etc.... who knows? Maybe it was Adam's participation in flash mobs or other activities...

[Aliangel]

SVR pulled the plug?

[PastaRocket848]

what is adam vs. the man?

[Restore-America-NOW]

Probably poor ratings. I never watched his show, apart from a few clips on YouTube. I'd love to see him get a show on Fox Business, he'd be a great addition to the likes of the Judge and Stossel.

[wormyguy]

TBH his show probably hurt us more than it helped - there's been a lot of guilt-by-association stuff along the lines of Ron Paul -> Adam Kokesh -> Russia Today -> Russian government.

[reduen]

Poor ratings I am sure.. He had some great guests on at times though...

[jmhudak17]

I was just starting to get into this show. This is disappointing.

[RileyE104]

Probably assholes threatening RT because of AK's support for RP.. Or poor ratings. I never got to watch except for online, and I assume RT doesn't look at those numbers.

[Napolitanic Wars]

I think this makes Jesse Benton's recent comments moot, though not entirely irrelevant.

[pipewerKz]

what is adam vs. the man?

Half hour show previously on RT - http://www.youtube.com/user/AdamVsTheManRT

[georgia_tech_swagger]

Poor ratings. Down here in the South nobody carries RT. But you can find Faux Business on in random restaurants.

[doctor jones]

I like Adam and all but if anyone actually watched the show you would see that he needs to go to broadcast journalism school. Hosting a show is not as easy as it looks (the Judge makes it look really easy) but it's actually a learned artform (some are more naturals than others) -- Adam at times looked awkward.

[angelatc]

I'm sorry to see it go. He did a great job of getting great guests.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I like Adam and all but if anyone actually watched the show you would see that he needs to go to broadcast journalism school. Hosting a show is not as easy as it looks (the Judge makes it look really easy) but it's actually a learned artform (some are more naturals than others) -- Adam at times looked awkward.

He was magnitudes better than Sharpton.

[doctor jones]

He was magnitudes better than Sharpton.

Why would you even draw that comparison -- who gives a shit about Sharpton except that he is a much more well known public figure than Adam.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Why would you even draw that comparison -- who gives a shit about Sharpton except that he is a much more well known public figure than Adam.

They both host(ed, in Adam's case) TV shows and don't come from a broadcast background?

[doctor jones]

They both host(ed, in Adam's case) TV shows and don't come from a broadcast background?

Sharpton's been a pundit for years and is much more well known.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Sharpton's been a pundit for years and is much more well known.

Answering questions on TV is much different than hosting the show. I don't know what to tell you if you don't understand the comparison.

[K466]

Weird- I hope we find out why. I watched every show for awhile but just didn't have time.

[swissaustrian]

Maybe he is joining the campaign - just kidding

[doctor jones]

Answering questions on TV is much different than hosting the show. I don't know what to tell you if you don't understand the comparison.

i don't know what to tell you if you are so blinded by liberty bias to see that Adam is not a very good broadcast journalist. I went to journalism school and I know exactly why Adam doesn't appeal to a broader base. We may like his show for it's content but as a broadcaster Kokesh has a long way to go -- again I am not speaking to the character of Kokesh at all this is purely about his TV skills.

[Matthew Zak]

In terms of content his show was awesome. But it was geared toward a pretty narrow demographic. People his age. That didn't help him. Also, his delivery was a bit rough... he had a stop and go delivery and had a tendency to trail off at the end of sentences. I don't know why anyone would think his show hurt the movement, it provided a lot of insights and clips to use as resources. He got on TV and talked about Ron Paul quite often.

Thank you Adam! I have no doubt you'll be equally or more successful in your next career move. Smart mofo.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNiFga0cP8

[V4Vendetta]

Hip Hip Horay!!!!
means the fed's lost one of their propaganda - expose' shows.
Opps Kokesh puts on a guy Fawkes mask and uses a computerized voice in an attempt to act like hes a member of Anonymous ..... knowing that will get good hearted people to expose themselves with their IP.... Adam Kokesh is a fed

[IndianaPolitico]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNiFga0cP8
Good video, Aaron hit the nail on the head as he usually does.
But what has this video got to do with Adam's show getting canceled?

[musicmax]

http://www.facebook.com/KokeshforCongress

According to Kokesh's facebook, Adam VS. The Man has aired it's final show. Thoughts?

1. I guess The Man won.

2. Learn how to spell ITS.

[R3volutionJedi]

I like that his fb URL is Adamforcongress......

[LawnWake]

Anyone catch the ending of the episode? No interviews with Adam Kokesh on RT (even after he's been a long time, hardcore supporter of Ron Paul) at a time when the media refuses to even mention Ron Paul? Weak, dude. Weak.

[Matthew Zak]

Hip Hip Horay!!!!
means the fed's lost one of their propaganda - expose' shows.
Opps Kokesh puts on a guy Fawkes mask and uses a computerized voice in an attempt to act like hes a member of Anonymous ..... knowing that will get good hearted people to expose themselves with their IP.... Adam Kokesh is a fed

??? Going for the lulz...??

[rawful]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNiFga0cP8

Attacking Russia Today is one thing. Personally attacking Adam when he's done nothing but promote Ron Paul on his show at every opportunity is disgusting. I'd expect something like that from Reason.

[speciallyblend]

Hip Hip Horay!!!!
means the fed's lost one of their propaganda - expose' shows.
Opps Kokesh puts on a guy Fawkes mask and uses a computerized voice in an attempt to act like hes a member of Anonymous ..... knowing that will get good hearted people to expose themselves with their IP.... Adam Kokesh is a fed

what the hell are you smoking? you are so far off base.

[V4Vendetta]

I'm right on base - Kokesh is a fed. that's why he put this video out on his show... he knew what it would do.
Its so obvious that hes a fed - I'm surprised no one else brought it up

[Matthew Zak]

I'm right on base - Kokesh is a fed. that's why he put this video out on his show... he knew what it would do.
Its so obvious that hes a fed - I'm surprised no one else brought it up

I'd keep delusions like this to yourself. You have NO logical reason to think this, yet you're claiming it is obvious. You're NOT going to win this battle.

[V4Vendetta]

lololololololol - Matthew Zac - the person to run away from - he might get you killed

[speciallyblend]

I'm right on base - Kokesh is a fed. that's why he put this video out on his show... he knew what it would do.
Its so obvious that hes a fed - I'm surprised no one else brought it up

I will let him know asap and when we go snowboarding!! stop where you are.

[V4Vendetta]

I will let him know asap and when we go snowboarding!! stop where you are.

You go snowboarding with a fed?? Not very intelligent! :-)
if that was a threat..... you might want to try harder to scare me

[messana]

I don't know how RT operates but having a 30 minute Ron Paul 2012 infomercial on the air as long as it did is pretty surprising. It might actually have lasted longer if Adam wasn't obviously biased towards one candidate.

[Matthew Zak]

lololololololol - Matthew Zac - the person to run away from - he might get you killed

What on earth are you talking about? Is english your first language?

[V4Vendetta]

lolz

[Matthew Zak]

lolz

Good talk.

[Elwar]

I have noticed the slow petering out of more libertarian leaning talk show hosts starting close to the first debates being replaced by neo-cons.

I was able to listen to a guy who supported Ron Paul for at least a year on my way home. It was refreshing to hear. He was replaced for "a difference in opinion on salary". Now we have a couple of Washington people parroting out MSM news.

One of the later radio shows that I used to catch once in a while has also been replaced by a neo-con who was bashing Paul the other night.

Glenn Beck went from being a die hard an-cap libertarian when it did not matter to an Israel first, bomb Iran, spend all of our money on corporations and military neo-con.

Hannity went from declaring himself a libertarian to going back to his tried and true neo-con ways.

They are circling the wagons for the elections.

[jmdrake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNiFga0cP8

Take away quotes from the above video:


It's probably more palatable to be on Alex Jones because Drudge links to Alex Jones almost weekly and people are used to Alex Jones. They are not used to Russia today.

Even if you're right, this is something that you have no control over and has nothing to do with you getting to work identifying likely republican voters.

Have some humility and realize that you might not know everything about running a presidential campaign.

Stop wasting time and diverting energy. And quit broadcasting this division.


I love Adam Kokesh and I think RT is important for getting out a different angle of news. Adam vs. The Man was an awesome show! But I'm in 100% agreement that we waste time and energy arguing with each other over crap that we can't control anyway.

[speciallyblend]

You go snowboarding with a fed?? Not very intelligent! :-)
if that was a threat..... you might want to try harder to scare me

it was no threat geez , take your paranoia pills or something adam kokesh is no fed. until you get that thru your head. You got issues.

[CaptainAmerica]

I won't miss that show. Adam Kokesh was too busy involved with Media Benjamin(hardcore marxist) activities to actually be a professional show host.

[GunnyFreedom]

I would have loved for AvM to have taken off and lasted a long, long time. I was unable to go on the show myself because of the people in my GOP and Tea Party bases weren't bright enough to separate AK from RT and Code Pink, as a freshman it would have horrified about 70% of the people who voted for me. I was hoping the show would last another 3 years so that I could have accepted the invitation during a second term, when I was more stable in my seat. :(

[CaptainAmerica]

I would have loved for AvM to have taken off and lasted a long, long time. I was unable to go on the show myself because of the people in my GOP and Tea Party bases weren't bright enough to separate AK from RT and Code Pink, as a freshman it would have horrified about 70% of the people who voted for me. I was hoping the show would last another 3 years so that I could have accepted the invitation during a second term, when I was more stable in my seat. :(

What is there to seperate when Adam Kokesh is directly involved with Media Benjamin?

"A man is known by the company he keeps."-Stonewall Jackson's maxims

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

http://www.facebook.com/KokeshforCongress

According to Kokesh's facebook, Adam VS. The Man has aired it's final show. Thoughts?
If you're going to use correct punctuation, grammar, and spelling, may as well point out that it's its, not it's. :P

[jmdrake]

What is there to seperate when Adam Kokesh is directly involved with Media Benjamin?

"A man is known by the company he keeps."-Stonewall Jackson's maxims

Matthew 9:10-11
And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Just sayin'.

[V4Vendetta]

What is there to seperate when Adam Kokesh is directly involved with Media Benjamin?

"A man is known by the company he keeps."-Stonewall Jackson's maxims

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++rep

however my criticism of kokesh is not based on that.

[doctor jones]

I would have loved for AvM to have taken off and lasted a long, long time. I was unable to go on the show myself because of the people in my GOP and Tea Party bases weren't bright enough to separate AK from RT and Code Pink, as a freshman it would have horrified about 70% of the people who voted for me. I was hoping the show would last another 3 years so that I could have accepted the invitation during a second term, when I was more stable in my seat. :(

I hope none of your enemies in your district read this forum.

[ctiger2]

...when I was more stable in my seat. :(

I disagree with making decisions based on getting re-elected. You do what you want and if people can't accept that...

[jmdrake]

Attacking Russia Today is one thing. Personally attacking Adam when he's done nothing but promote Ron Paul on his show at every opportunity is disgusting. I'd expect something like that from Reason.

Jesse's comments (which I just read) certainly were counter productive. But I see a difference between that and Reason's antics. There is an actual purpose behind distancing Ron from RT. (The average teocon voter isn't able to separate things). I see no point of Reason attacking Ron's "electibility". Not unless they need to have idiots in the Whitehouse so that they can have somebody to attack. :confused:

[V4Vendetta]

Just sayin'.

(most people use scripture as a cop out)

[CaptainAmerica]

Jesse's comments (which I just read) certainly were counter productive. But I see a difference between that and Reason's antics. There is an actual purpose behind distancing Ron from RT. (The average teocon voter isn't able to separate things). I see no point of Reason attacking Ron's "electibility". Not unless they need to have idiots in the Whitehouse so that they can have somebody to attack. :confused:Jesse Benton made a sound decision because I am sure he is aware like I am aware that Adam Kokesh has been involved in loud protests which are directly related to Medea Benjamin. Medea Benjamin is a hardcore marxist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF7YM4ABTQI

Jesse Benton made a good decision to cut RT news off of the campaign. I am commend him for his bold statement on RT and Adam.Adam should take in consideration his association.

[CaptainAmerica]

Jesse's comments (which I just read) certainly were counter productive. But I see a difference between that and Reason's antics. There is an actual purpose behind distancing Ron from RT. (The average teocon voter isn't able to separate things). I see no point of Reason attacking Ron's "electibility". Not unless they need to have idiots in the Whitehouse so that they can have somebody to attack. :confused:Jesse Benton made a sound decision because I am sure he is aware like I am aware that Adam Kokesh has been involved in loud protests which are directly related to Medea Benjamin. Medea Benjamin is a hardcore marxist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF7YM4ABTQI

Jesse Benton made a good decision to cut RT news off of the campaign. I commend him for his bold statement on RT and Adam.Adam should take in consideration his association.

[MelissaCato]

I liked Adam vs. the Man. Darn it.

I still think he should have focused on the Oath Keepers and what they have been doing in the past few months. Noone is mentioning the most historical activities those Oath Keeper people have been and are doing.

America needs to know there are serious Policeman, Military and Firefighters supporting this country as founded.

Someone in the MSM should air these activities .. but noone does. I think it's an injustice not to, but hey, maybe it's just me.

:cool:

[rawful]

Jesse's comments (which I just read) certainly were counter productive. But I see a difference between that and Reason's antics. There is an actual purpose behind distancing Ron from RT. (The average teocon voter isn't able to separate things). I see no point of Reason attacking Ron's "electibility". Not unless they need to have idiots in the Whitehouse so that they can have somebody to attack. :confused:

If guilt-by-associatian was the fear, then Benton should have responded to Adam and asked him to stop openly promoting the campaign.

This is all a moot issue really. Russia Today is not what's keeping Ron Paul from being President.

[CaptainAmerica]

If guilt-by-associatian was the fear, then Benton should have responded to Adam and asked him to stop openly promoting the campaign.

This is all a moot issue really. Russia Today is not what's keeping Ron Paul from being President.

You assume that fear is the reason behind Jesse's comments. I would say that Jesse is just being wise.

[tropicangela]

Federal Complaint Filed Against Russia Today by America’s Survival, Inc. (Cliff Kincaid)

Complaint: http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/fec-complaint.pdf

[pipewerKz]

Federal Complaint Filed Against Russia Today by America’s Survival, Inc. (Cliff Kincaid)

Complaint: http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/fec-complaint.pdf

Interesting, this has to be the issue.

"AMERICA's SURVIVAL INC., is a 501(c)(3) educational organization specializing in exposing the United Nations, international organizations and extremist movements.
...
The apparent purpose of this electioneering by a foreign corporation based in Russia is to divide and weaken the Republican Party as it enters the 2012 presidential election season, thus making it more likely that President Barack Obama and his political party will succeed."

This is an interesting position - thoughts?

[Jingles]

I like that his fb URL is Adamforcongress......

He ran for congress in 2010.

[CaptainAmerica]

Matthew 9:10-11
And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Just sayin'. In context Jesus is the savior. Good try at using a bible verse out of context.

[Feeding the Abscess]

i don't know what to tell you if you are so blinded by liberty bias to see that Adam is not a very good broadcast journalist. I went to journalism school and I know exactly why Adam doesn't appeal to a broader base. We may like his show for it's content but as a broadcaster Kokesh has a long way to go -- again I am not speaking to the character of Kokesh at all this is purely about his TV skills.

I never said he was good. I merely compared him to another host without a broadcast journalist background, one who happens to be worse than Kokesh.

[Feeding the Abscess]

In context Jesus is the savior. Good try at using a bible verse out of context.

Seriously, dude, I'm atheist, but I understand that the point of following Christ is to... well, follow Christ. If more people acted like Jesus, the world would be a much better place.

[CaptainAmerica]

Seriously, dude, I'm atheist, but I understand that the point of following Christ is to... well, follow Christ. If more people acted like Jesus, the world would be a much better place.

The context of that bible verse is to treat others with respect and love equally as Christ does. Being affiliated with a protest, and pro-marxist woman named Medea Benjamin has nothing to do with the bible verse.

“He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed.” (Proverbs 13:20)

Now you wanted to go the route of bible verses so I give you a bible verse back.

[Vessol]

The context of that bible verse is to treat others with respect and love equally as Christ does. Being affiliated with a protest, and pro-marxist woman named Medea Benjamin has nothing to do with the bible verse.

So RP shouldn't work with people like Kucinich?

[JoshLowry]

Adam VS. The Man CANCELLED

ಠ_ಠ

[CaptainAmerica]

ಠ_ಠ

We still have Freedom Watch ,and that is way better.

[pipewerKz]

So RP shouldn't work with people like Kucinich?

Yeah, on the war issue. It's not Ron's fault Dennis doesn't understand economics.

[Chieppa1]

Sucks it got canceled. No issue with Jesse's comments. Makes total sense. Anyone who doesn't see how easy FOX/CNN could take the Ron Paul and RT angle is blind.

[Yieu]

Federal Complaint Filed Against Russia Today by America’s Survival, Inc. (Cliff Kincaid)

Complaint: www . usasurvival . org/ docs / fec-complaint . pdf

I just want to leave a quick note that this is not a FEC investigation, but some random guy requesting the FEC to investigate. A guy who obviously is anti-Ron Paul and wants to use guilt by association to take him down.

[Feeding the Abscess]

The context of that bible verse is to treat others with respect and love equally as Christ does. Being affiliated with a protest, and pro-marxist woman named Medea Benjamin has nothing to do with the bible verse.

“He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed.” (Proverbs 13:20)

Now you wanted to go the route of bible verses so I give you a bible verse back.

Got it. Jesus was a drug using, disease-ridden prostitute. Thanks for the info!

[GunnyFreedom]

I disagree with making decisions based on getting re-elected. You do what you want and if people can't accept that...

That's why more Paulers aren't getting elected. There's too much work to do to chop off our own heads at the first opportunity. I'm not here of my own accord, but to represent the 50,000 people in my district.

[angelatc]

I just want to leave a quick note that this is not a FEC investigation, but some random guy requesting the FEC to investigate. A guy who obviously is anti-Ron Paul and wants to use guilt by association to take him down.

More like, he wants to use the power of the government to stifle free speech.

[Yieu]

More like, he wants to use the power of the government to stifle free speech.

Correct, and that's a more clear and to the point way of saying it.


That's why more Paulers aren't getting elected. There's too much work to do to chop off our own heads at the first opportunity. I'm not here of my own accord, but to represent the 50,000 people in my district.

Said like a true statesman. Putting the definition of "representative" back in our Representatives.

[CaptainAmerica]

Got it. Jesus was a drug using, disease-ridden prostitute. Thanks for the info!
Now you are asserting and misinterpreting the bible verse. Inflammatory talking points gain you nothing.The scriptures about Jesus are clearly in context of Jesus being the savior of all people because no one is without sin except for Jesus.In context the scriptures about Jesus eating and conversating with all humans of all classes and walks of life is that Jesus came to save humanity and that only by the grace of God that he did so and not by anyone elses actions. Stop twisting the bible into vitriol as a means of debating me. The scripture about Jesus loving his neighbor has nothing to do with political views or political agendas.The pharisees on the other hand viewed it as political.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Adam vs The Man
The Man won, apparently.

[CaptainAmerica]

Adam vs The Man
The Man won, apparently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ

FEC rules probably got his show canceled.

[LibertyEagle]

I just want to leave a quick note that this is not a FEC investigation, but some random guy requesting the FEC to investigate. A guy who obviously is anti-Ron Paul and wants to use guilt by association to take him down.

I can understand Kincaid's concern about RT, but I don't understand him being against Paul. Kincaid has always been very anti-UN, against the NAFTA superhighway and so many other things that Paul is against. Kincaid should love Paul. I don't get it.

[tropicangela]

I can understand Kincaid's concern about RT, but I don't understand him being against Paul. Kincaid has always been very anti-UN, against the NAFTA superhighway and so many other things that Paul is against. Kincaid should love Paul. I don't get it.

Makes me wonder who Kincaid really is.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Now you are asserting and misinterpreting the bible verse. Inflammatory talking points gain you nothing.The scriptures about Jesus are clearly in context of Jesus being the savior of all people because no one is without sin except for Jesus.In context the scriptures about Jesus eating and conversating with all humans of all classes and walks of life is that Jesus came to save humanity and that only by the grace of God that he did so and not by anyone elses actions. Stop twisting the bible into vitriol as a means of debating me. The scripture about Jesus loving his neighbor has nothing to do with political views or political agendas.The pharisees on the other hand viewed it as political.

Wrong, you attempted to tar Kokesh by means of guilt by association; I used Jesus as an example of why that isn't a wise tactic.

[FSP-Rebel]

Kokesh is a good guy but the show was a half hour per week (or whatever it is) but online shows have little traction. No need to spend 9 pages mourning over this. Some are frettin over very little. Carry on tho

[CaptainAmerica]

Wrong, you attempted to tar Kokesh by means of guilt by association; I used Jesus as an example of why that isn't a wise tactic.
"guilty by association"...am I condemning Adam Kokesh to hell?No I am not.Obviously you take the bible out of its context because you think you are so intellectually inclined to do so. Adam associated himself with someone who represents the total opposite of individual liberty. Medea Benjamin and Adam have a close record of civil disobedience protests. Jesus did not come to earth to protest or to challenge authorities, he came to deliver a message about God the Father and to fulfill prophecy of salvation. Now I know you don't see the difference between "love your neighbor as yourself" and associating yourself with the ignorant actions of others and taking part in those actions.I find it rather ironic too because you profess yourself an atheist and your only goal is to twist the bible verse around and call me a hypocrite and I am not.

[farrar]

After watching a few clips of his show I knew not to get attached. He was too obvious in his support of Ron Paul. A very similar situation to that of the colbert pac... but as the complaint sited earlier shows, RT being a foreign entity makes the situation even more complex. I wish the system were diffrent, but I can't say I am supprised. If his ratings were good enough, maybe he'll get a deal after a few years down the road... he'll probably after to down play his support like judge nap or John Stossel who simply have kind words for him and make sure to get Ron on fairly regularly.

www . usasurvival . org/ docs / fec-complaint . pdf

[Feeding the Abscess]

"guilty by association"...am I condemning Adam Kokesh to hell?No I am not.Obviously you take the bible out of its context because you think you are so intellectually inclined to do so. Adam associated himself with someone who represents the total opposite of individual liberty. Medea Benjamin and Adam have a close record of civil disobedience protests. Jesus did not come to earth to protest or to challenge authorities, he came to deliver a message about God the Father and to fulfill prophecy of salvation. Now I know you don't see the difference between "love your neighbor as yourself" and associating yourself with the ignorant actions of others and taking part in those actions.I find it rather ironic too because you profess yourself an atheist and your only goal is to twist the bible verse around and call me a hypocrite and I am not.

I guess Ron Paul is against individual liberty, as he associates himself with Barney Frank, Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, and other socialists on foreign policy and civil liberties matters frequently.

The rest of your post is warbling nonsense. G'day.

[Duckman]

I can understand Kincaid's concern about RT, but I don't understand him being against Paul. Kincaid has always been very anti-UN, against the NAFTA superhighway and so many other things that Paul is against. Kincaid should love Paul. I don't get it.

Yeah, this is unfortunate. People like conspiracy theories... <ducks>. Hey, I made a pun.

But seriously, this Kincaid guy can't see past the fact that Russia is either through ignorance, greed, or perhaps malice (always assume the OTHER government works perfectly, right?) is seemingly supporting Ron.

[CaptainAmerica]

I guess Ron Paul is against individual liberty, as he associates himself with Barney Frank, Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, and other socialists on foreign policy and civil liberties matters frequently.

The rest of your post is warbling nonsense. G'day.

Ron Paul actually works in the U.S. Congress as a house representative . I know what Ron Paul does and what his voting record is ,so I know his exact opinions on issues. You would never catch Ron Paul side by side with a marxist in a protest."warbling nonsense"...yeah because I actually read the bible daily and understand the context you twisted.

[tremendoustie]

If more people acted like Jesus, the world would be a much better place.

amen to that

[marc1888]

I won't miss that show. Adam Kokesh was too busy involved with Media Benjamin(hardcore marxist) activities to actually be a professional show host.

Quite right... same goes for that Ron Paul character who supports things put forward by that Dennis Kucinich leftist ;)

[tremendoustie]

You would never catch Ron Paul side by side with a marxist in a protest

Sure you would, if it were a pro-freedom protest on a particular issue. You think people should leave pro-freedom events as soon as anyone they disagree with on any issue shows up? C'mon.

[Ex Post Facto]

The endorsement of a Presidential candidate and the raising of funds on the air for a Presidential candidate by this foreign corporation operating in the United States are apparent violations of the FEC laws and regulations prohibiting these actions by foreign nationals.

http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/fec-complaint.pdf

Looking at the FEC regulations it says this:


§ 441e. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals1
(a) Prohibition. It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 304(f)(3)) (2 U.S.C. § 434(f)(3)); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
(b) As used in this section, the term “foreign national” means—
(1) a foreign principal, as such term is defined by section 611(b) of title 22,2 except that the term “foreign national” shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States; or
(2) an individual who is not a citizen of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act)3 and who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined by section 1101(a)(20) of title 8.1

I personally am not seeing a violation of FEC regulations. There are a two distinct regulations here:

(1) A foreign national, directly or indirectly to make - a contribution or donation to an election, a contribution or donation to a PAC, or a disbursement of other funds in connection with an election.

(2) A person to solicit donations from foreign nationals.

I do not see where the person who filed the FEC complaint has any legal grounds for the complaint. Adam nor RT, gave money from foreign nationals nor solicited any money from foreign nationals. RT is in the USA and by the complaint, airs on USA televisions across the USA. Even if RT could be called a foreign national under the meaning of FEC regulations, which I do not think it can because it operates within as any other corporation in America, RT still neither solicited monies from other foreign nationals, nor gave money directly or indirectly from foreign nationals.

Adam should be pissed. He got hosed for no reason.

*I am the author of this post.

[Yieu]

I personally am not seeing a violation of FEC regulations. There are a two distinct regulations here:

(1) A foreign national, directly or indirectly to make - a contribution or donation to an election, a contribution or donation to a PAC, or a disbursement of other funds in connection with an election.

(2) A person to solicit donations from foreign nationals.

I do not see where the person who filed the FEC complaint has any legal grounds for the complaint. Adam nor RT, gave money from foreign nationals nor solicited any money from foreign nationals. RT is in the USA and by the complaint, airs on USA televisions across the USA. Even if RT could be called a foreign national under the meaning of FEC regulations, which I do not think it can because it operates within as any other corporation in America, RT still neither solicited monies from other foreign nationals, nor gave money directly or indirectly from foreign nationals.

Adam should be pissed. He got hosed for no reason.

*I am the author of this post.

Thank you sir, for your analysis! This PDF is an poor attack on Ron Paul through guilt by association, and appears to be completely baseless.

It is certainly not something to promote.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

I called Adam a few hours ago. We're good friends in real life. He said he would tell me in a few days what the real reason was for the axing of the show. If he lets me post something, I'll let you know.

And this new reply thing sux btw.

[Ex Post Facto]

Well if that FEC filing is the reason tell him its BS and point him here. He had a contract though, so I am sure he was well taken care of when his show was cancelled. However, the FEC filing should not have been the reason. If it was, someone way up top is just using it to give RT justification and cover to get rid of him.

[foofighter20x]

Federal Complaint Filed Against Russia Today by America’s Survival, Inc. (Cliff Kincaid)

Complaint: http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/fec-complaint.pdf

That's what happened. More details here:
http://www.dailypaul.com/176037/aha-the-truth-laid-bare-in-the-kokesh-benton-rp-flap

[foofighter20x]

http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/fec-complaint.pdf

Looking at the FEC regulations it says this:


I personally am not seeing a violation of FEC regulations. There are a two distinct regulations here:

(1) A foreign national, directly or indirectly to make - a contribution or donation to an election, a contribution or donation to a PAC, or a disbursement of other funds in connection with an election.

(2) A person to solicit donations from foreign nationals.

I do not see where the person who filed the FEC complaint has any legal grounds for the complaint. Adam nor RT, gave money from foreign nationals nor solicited any money from foreign nationals. RT is in the USA and by the complaint, airs on USA televisions across the USA. Even if RT could be called a foreign national under the meaning of FEC regulations, which I do not think it can because it operates within as any other corporation in America, RT still neither solicited monies from other foreign nationals, nor gave money directly or indirectly from foreign nationals.

Adam should be pissed. He got hosed for no reason.

*I am the author of this post.

Expenditures include in-kind expenditures, which is to what Adam's broadcast amounts.

[Edit] I should further add: It doesn't matter that it was Adam who personally made the endorsement. At the he made it, he was executing his function as an employee of RT. And since he's RT's employee, RT is responsible for his actions by the legal doctrine of vicarious liability. And since RT is prohibited by law from doing what Adam did, Adam has gotten RT into a bit of a spot.

[angelatc]

Expenditures include in-kind expenditures, which is to what Adam's broadcast amounts.

[Edit] I should further add: It doesn't matter that it was Adam who personally made the endorsement. He's RT's employee, thus RT is responsible for his actions by the legal doctrine of vicarious liability. And since RT is prohibited by law from doing what Adam did, Adam has gotten RT into a bit of a spot.

But that damage ( if any) is already done. It seems that Adam should have had the chance to keep doing the show sans endorsements. Which, maybe he did. I don't know, but I like Adam. Like Tom Woods says, the people that don't like him make me like him even more.

[Ex Post Facto]

Expenditures include in-kind expenditures, which is to what Adam's broadcast amounts.

[Edit] I should further add: It doesn't matter that it was Adam who personally made the endorsement. At the he made it, he was executing his function as an employee of RT. And since he's RT's employee, RT is responsible for his actions by the legal doctrine of vicarious liability. And since RT is prohibited by law from doing what Adam did, Adam has gotten RT into a bit of a spot.

I am not really following your logic here. In-Kind expenditures are goods and services. If somehow Adam's statement could be in-kind, which is a huge stretch of the imagination, it still would not comport with the Title 11 FEC regulations, as no goods or services were given by foreign nationals, or solicited/accepted from foreign nationals.

If how your interpretation of this regulation was correct, no foreign person could speak about or endorse a candidate in America. That is not how I interpret this regulation. It does not prohibit foreign people from soliciting for a candidate, it prohibits a candidate from soliciting or accepting money from foreign nationals. The question mark should not be on Adam Kokesh and the FEC complaint is wrongly targeted. The only real question that could be made according to the regulation is:

Adam received donations from Ron Paul's PAC. Adam works for a foreign national. The foreign national (using Adam) made a statement about giving money to Ron Paul.

Still there is no violation of the regulation as RT did not try to get foreign nationals to give money to Ron Paul. RT is aired and targeted at the United States citizen. There is no prohibition contained in the regulations that state a foreign national cannot solicit support for a United States candidate. FEC regulations apply to campaign finance, Ron Pauls campaign might be the correct target of an FEC complaint; but again, FEC regulations apply to the campaign soliciting/accepting money from foreigners, or receiving money from foreigners--not using a foreigner to solicit money from Americans.

Edit:


The FEC complaint was not a factor in canceling AVTM on RT. NOBODY takes Kincaid seriously, & the complaint had no legal basis.

https://twitter.com/#!/adamkokesh/status/106710682711502848

[foofighter20x]

The airtime Adam used, and the cost of broadcasting during Adam's endorsement, was the in-kind expenditure.

Also, it appears you haven't gone and educated yourself on what vicarious liability is. If you aren't even going to try to understand what I'm saying, then I'm not going to spend time arguing with you. I have more productive ways to use my time.

Go crack open a book on agency law and another on criminal law. You might just learn something. And when you finally do learn it, you'll see I'm right.

As for Adam's tweet: I believe it when an FEC spokesperson and RT's lawyers say that, not him. You really need to up your standards on what is satisfactory evidence. (Then again, maybe having worked for the courts has just made me cynical. It's entirely possible.)

[RileyE104]

via Facebook:


I will be able to speak more freely about AVTM's cancellation after concluding my legal business with RT. Until then, just know that the FEC complaint was not a factor, but Jesse Benton is.

[RileyE104]

More details here:
http://www.dailypaul.com/176037/aha-the-truth-laid-bare-in-the-kokesh-benton-rp-flap

Thanks for sharing that.

[IndianaPolitico]

Adam just said this on his facebook:
"There is no "media blackout" on Ron Paul, only Jesse Benton's arrogance and incompetence"

Come on Adam! Saying there is no media blackout and that it is all Benton's "fault" is simply crazy!

[yoshimaroka]

This whole thing is confusing (perhaps deliberately).

The childish remarks on Adam's behalf aren't meeting our need for clarity either.

[Birdlady]

Looking at his FB page and watching his show, honestly I'm surprised so many of you liked Adam Kokesh. I don't have any feelings towards him either way, but he shoots from the hip and isn't afraid to do or say whatever is on his mind. Typically that behavior isn't well received here.

In the next few days I'm sure we will know more...

[foofighter20x]

I am not really following your logic here. In-Kind expenditures are goods and services. If somehow Adam's statement could be in-kind, which is a huge stretch of the imagination, it still would not comport with the Title 11 FEC regulations, as no goods or services were given by foreign nationals, or solicited/accepted from foreign nationals.

If how your interpretation of this regulation was correct, no foreign person could speak about or endorse a candidate in America. That is not how I interpret this regulation. It does not prohibit foreign people from soliciting for a candidate, it prohibits a candidate from soliciting or accepting money from foreign nationals. The question mark should not be on Adam Kokesh and the FEC complaint is wrongly targeted. The only real question that could be made according to the regulation is:

Adam received donations from Ron Paul's PAC. Adam works for a foreign national. The foreign national (using Adam) made a statement about giving money to Ron Paul.

Still there is no violation of the regulation as RT did not try to get foreign nationals to give money to Ron Paul. RT is aired and targeted at the United States citizen. There is no prohibition contained in the regulations that state a foreign national cannot solicit support for a United States candidate. FEC regulations apply to campaign finance, Ron Pauls campaign might be the correct target of an FEC complaint; but again, FEC regulations apply to the campaign soliciting/accepting money from foreigners, or receiving money from foreigners--not using a foreigner to solicit money from Americans.

Also, it just occurred to me, EPF, that you are referring only to statute. You called them FEC regulations, but those are in fact not the FEC regulations. Those are to be found here: 11 CFR § 110.20: Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (2 U.S.C. 441e, 36 U.S.C. 510). (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=8a4cd4b0451a33f3afeb790a9637e9eb&rgn=div8&view=text&node=11:1.0.1.1.18.0.1.20&idno=11)

Please note section (7)(b) where it says "other thing of value". That phrase can reasonably be understood to include boradcast airtime.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

This whole thing is confusing (perhaps deliberately).

The childish remarks on Adam's behalf aren't meeting our need for clarity either.
He did talk about penis quite a lot

[Restore-America-NOW]

Adam sounds like a butthurt douche bag.

[ninepointfive]

Adam sounds like a butthurt douche bag.

Have you ran for Congress, started a show, to be dissed by a campaign manager? Probably not.

The only people who are douche-bags are those who will not be able to look past this, and those who aren't taking this as an opportunity to learn from it. The only douche-bags are people who will neg hit on Adam or Benton. We all make mistakes. They both need to keep the big picture in mind, and if the media blackout is part of the campaign's issues, they need to readjust ASAP!

This all may be very vital to correct RP campaign procedure before it's too late!

[angelatc]

The airtime Adam used, and the cost of broadcasting during Adam's endorsement, was the in-kind expenditure.

You know Rupert Murdoch isn't American, right?

[Ex Post Facto]

That phrase can reasonably be understood to include broadcast airtime

I would have to disagree, within the meaning of the title. I can understand why you could confuse that, but the campaign still did not solicit nor accept any free airtime. FEC regulations are controlling only to the person or entity in which they regulate. Ron Paul's campaign would be liable for accepting or soliciting free airtime. But a foreign national can offer all they want as long as the campaign does not ask for it or accept it. If the issue is about providing free airtime endorsing a candidate by a foreign principle, what you are saying is that no foreign principle or national can cover an election in the USA, nor provide opinions on which candidate is better or more appropriate. This would be an absurd interpretation of the regulation as any new agency owned by foreign interests could never provide opinions or endorsements of a candidate.

[foofighter20x]

You know Rupert Murdoch isn't American, right?

Rupert Murdoch's employees aren't using FNC or Fox stations to tell people to support or donate money to specific candidates.

Also, it's irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is what Adam did while acting as an employee of RT, a foreign corporation.

[foofighter20x]

I would have to disagree, within the meaning of the title. I can understand why you could confuse that, but the campaign still did not solicit nor accept any free airtime. FEC regulations are controlling only to the person or entity in which they regulate. Ron Paul's campaign would be liable for accepting or soliciting free airtime. But a foreign national can offer all they want as long as the campaign does not ask for it or accept it. If the issue is about providing free airtime endorsing a candidate by a foreign principle, what you are saying is that no foreign principle or national can cover an election in the USA, nor provide opinions on which candidate is better or more appropriate. This would be an absurd interpretation of the regulation as any new agency owned by foreign interests could never provide opinions or endorsements of a candidate.

Incorrect. Campaigns can ask for all the airtime or interviews they want. Doesn't mean the stations have to give it. And even if the stations do, it doesn't make it a prohibited activity so long as the station is not saying "vote for candidate x" or "donate money to candidate x."

Also, FEC has jurisdiction over the media as pertains to elections. And since you obviously didn't go read the section at the link I offered, here it is:


(7)(b) Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

Yeah, that looks like a direct regulation of a non-campaign entity by the FEC to me.

Some others for you.


(7)(e) Disbursements by foreign nationals for electioneering communications. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any disbursement for an electioneering communication as defined in 11 CFR 100.29.

(f) Expenditures, independent expenditures, or disbursements by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

[Ex Post Facto]

I am not going to argue with you further on this. You do realize this regulation derives its authority from Title 11? I am not going to bore you with my background in law, but I stand by my opinion that there is no violation. Nor, will I belittle you personally. I guess if there is a real violation we will see action taken by the FEC, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. It is not a violation.

[angelatc]

Rupert Murdoch's employees aren't using FNC or Fox stations to tell people to support or donate money to specific candidates.

Also, it's irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is what Adam did while acting as an employee of RT, a foreign corporation.

Just giving them airtime could be considered an an-kind donation. The differences between what you say Adam did and what Murdoch does with Fox are minute. The FEC might rule that there was a violation, but they might not, either. It will be worth watching, because the implications are frightening.

[angelatc]

Rupert Murdoch's employees aren't using FNC or Fox stations to tell people to support or donate money to specific candidates.

Also, it's irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is what Adam did while acting as an employee of RT, a foreign corporation.

Just giving them airtime could be considered an an-kind donation. The differences between what you say Adam did and what Murdoch does with Fox are minute. The FEC might rule that there was a violation, but they might not, either. It will be worth watching, because the implications are frightening.

[specialkornflake]

When something goes wrong I'm quick to blame Jesse Benton too, has he quit the gum-smacking yet?

[Ex Post Facto]

Just giving them airtime is not an in-kind donation. As long as a network gives coverage to other competing candidates (and this applies to the network as a whole, not a specific show) then the rules specifically state news coverage is not a contribution under the authority of the Title. It is an expenditure specifically exempted by the Title in relation to foreign principles. 22 U.S.C. Section 611


(b) The term "foreign principal" includes -
(3) a partnership, association, corporation, organization, or
other combination of persons organized under the laws of or
having its principal place of business in a foreign country.

RT is located in the United States, registered to do business in the US. Even if somehow we could make RT out to be a foreign entity subsection (d) provides exemptions for employees working at the news station so long as the organization has independent control over their content and is not regulated by a foreign government. Like all news stations they receive government grants, but RT is a corporation directly targeted at the US population and even receive federal dollars.



(d) The term "agent of a foreign principal" does not include any
news or press service or association organized under the laws of
the United States or of any State or other place subject to the
jurisdiction of the United States, or any newspaper, magazine,
periodical, or other publication for which there is on file with
the United States Postal Service information in compliance with
section 3611 (!2) of title 39, published in the United States,
solely by virtue of any bona fide news or journalistic activities,
including the solicitation or acceptance of advertisements,
subscriptions, or other compensation therefor,

[sailingaway]

RT is like a missionary, he tries to get his message out where he can. media are finally giving hiim some attention, at least for now, but for a while RT was one of the few stations that did.

However, Adam, much as I appreciate his loyalty to Ron with the Bob Barr situation (which is a big reason why I donated to his congressional campaign), is too loose a canon to essentially become a self determined spokesperson for Ron. I now suspect Benton was deliberately taking steps to distance Ron from what Adam was doing, to lessen backlash. I don't know if you've seen some of the ludicrous hits on Ron in conservative blogs tying Ron to Adam and then through Adam, using associational 'guilt' to all sorts of others. This is a new one by GOPUSA. And I'm wondering if I should move this thread to the basement. h xxp://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2011/08/26/kincaid-ron-paul-reportedly-cuts-ties-to-russian-channel/

[Ex Post Facto]

Sailingaway,

I have seen much worse supporters of RP on this forum, then Adam Kokesh was on his show. I also suspect Mr. Benton was distancing the RP campaign from Adam Kokesh, although I do not agree that he should have. Although, I would assume Mr. Benton has his reasons. I like to the of Ron Paul actually having some say in his campaign, but after the last campaign, I am not so sure he is really even aware of Mr. Benton's actions half the time. For Ron Paul to state that his campaign does not have the duty to monitor other peoples actions, when presented with donations from white supremists, yet his campaign manager seemingly attempts to monitor Adam Kokesh, then it does not make sense to me. Ron Paul has interviewed with RT in the past, including with Adam Kokesh. The statements by Mr. Benton are irresponsible, in my opinion. I have not donated a single dime to the Ron Paul campaign this year because I do not think the money will be used responsibly. When a campaign has a 5 Million dollar surplus after ending its campaign, enough to start a PAC and give paychecks to employees, I do not think the campaign is really trying to win. Mr. Benton's actions really do not help me change my mind. Of course, Ron Paul will get my support if he makes it to the last 3 or 4 candidates. However, it will not be before that as I have little faith in Mr. Benton spending my money to get him to the end.

I am a little disappointed that you would consider putting a thread in the basement, just because some guy files an FEC complaint that has no legal basis. But its a free country (haha) so you can do what you please.

[sailingaway]

Sailingaway,

I have seen much worse supporters of RP on this forum, then Adam Kokesh was on his show. I also suspect Mr. Benton was distancing the RP campaign from Adam Kokesh, although I do not agree that he should have. Although, I would assume Mr. Benton has his reasons. I like to the of Ron Paul actually having some say in his campaign, but after the last campaign, I am not so sure he is really even aware of Mr. Benton's actions half the time. For Ron Paul to state that his campaign does not have the duty to monitor other peoples actions, when presented with donations from white supremists, yet his campaign manager seemingly attempts to monitor Adam Kokesh, then it does not make sense to me. Ron Paul has interviewed with RT in the past, including with Adam Kokesh. The statements by Mr. Benton are irresponsible, in my opinion. I have not donated a single dime to the Ron Paul campaign this year because I do not think the money will be used responsibly. When a campaign has a 5 Million dollar surplus after ending its campaign, enough to start a PAC and give paychecks to employees, I do not think the campaign is really trying to win. Mr. Benton's actions really do not help me change my mind. Of course, Ron Paul will get my support if he makes it to the last 3 or 4 candidates. However, it will not be before that as I have little faith in Mr. Benton spending my money to get him to the end.

I am a little disappointed that you would consider putting a thread in the basement, just because some guy files an FEC complaint that has no legal basis. But its a free country (haha) so you can do what you please.

It is very different. Monitoring one individual out of 320 million individuals, or a private forum where it specifically says they are not attributed to Ron or affiliated with the campaign is different than a TV station broadcast. ( although we do have to keep in mind that what we say here is read by media, as well.) If Ron is slurred on TV but defended on a forum or by a private individual so most don't even know it, would we consider broadcast of the defense sufficient response for the TV insult? There are a relatively small number of stations and Benton was saying RON personally wouldn't be on one, at least until the FEC matter is cleared up. He is distancing the campaign from that. I'm sure if white supremicists had a TV station he wouldn't be on it either (since that was your example).

And we'd be royally pissed at Benton if he booked Ron into a situation like that.

I like some things RT has done. I view them as sort of an 'alternative media' getting out different viewpoints, and I just don't watch what doesn't interest me. I appreciate that they gave Ron interviews when other media were ignoring him. But Adam is very 'in your face' and while I don't mind that in him as a person, I can see why Ron wouldn't want to be giving an apparent stamp of approval to it by that close of an association right now, dragging in this FEC wrinkle as well.

And my reasons for putting it into the basement have to do with what conservative blogs allege about this relationship which is utterly untrue, not about what has been said here. Don't know if you read the link I posted, and believe me, that is mild and responsible journalism next to some of what I have read on those blogs.

[BUSHLIED]

Sailingaway,

I have seen much worse supporters of RP on this forum, then Adam Kokesh was on his show. I also suspect Mr. Benton was distancing the RP campaign from Adam Kokesh, although I do not agree that he should have. Although, I would assume Mr. Benton has his reasons. I like to the of Ron Paul actually having some say in his campaign, but after the last campaign, I am not so sure he is really even aware of Mr. Benton's actions half the time. For Ron Paul to state that his campaign does not have the duty to monitor other peoples actions, when presented with donations from white supremists, yet his campaign manager seemingly attempts to monitor Adam Kokesh, then it does not make sense to me. Ron Paul has interviewed with RT in the past, including with Adam Kokesh. The statements by Mr. Benton are irresponsible, in my opinion. I have not donated a single dime to the Ron Paul campaign this year because I do not think the money will be used responsibly. When a campaign has a 5 Million dollar surplus after ending its campaign, enough to start a PAC and give paychecks to employees, I do not think the campaign is really trying to win. Mr. Benton's actions really do not help me change my mind. Of course, Ron Paul will get my support if he makes it to the last 3 or 4 candidates. However, it will not be before that as I have little faith in Mr. Benton spending my money to get him to the end.

I am a little disappointed that you would consider putting a thread in the basement, just because some guy files an FEC complaint that has no legal basis. But its a free country (haha) so you can do what you please.

Sounds like you have been paying close attention. I think the biggest disappointment was to find out that the 2008 campaign was not a "real" presidential run and yes, the large surplus used to seed other organizations and pay former campaign staffers. That is the main reason I didn't donate to the campaign until after AMES, when at least you could tell the campaign tried to win it, and it fact, in my opinion, it was a win...although I am always going back and forth about the seriousness of the campaign, I just can't tell if it is just plain incompetence or a lack of seriousness...at least they have Ron campaigning in Iowa and NH much more than last time. That being said, the C4L and YAL organizations appear to be playing an important role this election cycle. So, I will withhold judgment of the decision hold onto the money after the 2008 for now. It still remains to be seen what type of impact they are going to have across the states...and there has been very little information about what the state chapters are doing...

I terms of Adam et al. Ron is an anti-establishment candidate and Adam and the like are anti-establishment individuals that are making waves...One could argue that Ron and Adam are not that much different in that Ron is using his ideas to buck the establishment and Adam is just saying NO, making his case in a more confrontation way...but make no mistake they are both confrontational...it's just that Ron is doing in a more "Acceptable" way...

that being said, sometimes you have to distance yourself from people for political gain...and so Paul should distance himself now that the race is in full swing!

[Birdlady]

I hate picking sides, but I definitely agree with your view on this. Just last week there was that guy who put an ad asking if anyone had sex with Perry. Ron said it was ridiculous to even suggest he could police his supporters and that his supporters are free-willed or whatnot. How is that not any different than Adam? I don't know all of the details of what happened, but I can see why both sides are upset. Adam feels betrayed because he has exhausted all avenues to get more coverage for RP and then when he is denied and personally attacked, he realizes that maybe the media isn't to blame. Both parties should have handled it differently.

It seems like the campaign loves the good publicity (and money) they get from people like Adam and AJ, but as soon as the going gets tough, they want to immediately abandon ship and start dumping any supporters who might act a little less reserve in their delivery of the news. I remember this all too well during the interview with Glenn Beck back in 08.

This is how I would handle it if it ever came up in an interview.
"Some of our supporters are very energetic and enthusiastic about regaining our liberties and freedoms. They may spread that message in ways I do not agree with, but that is what freedom and liberty is all about".

I just feel like RP's campaign is always on the defense and we get bullied because we haven't stood up to their bullies. We cower and put our tail between our legs and let this cycle repeat itself over and over again. I don't hear of any other candidates having this issue because their campaign would immediately shut it down.

I just don't like that the infighting started from the campaign itself and is now trickling down to the supporters. You will have those defend the campaign to no end. And then those who ask questions about the campaign. This will probably get me some bad rep, but oh well.

Why would Jesse even say what he did about RT and Adam. I mean is he trying to start a war amongst us? :eek:


Sailingaway,

I have seen much worse supporters of RP on this forum, then Adam Kokesh was on his show. I also suspect Mr. Benton was distancing the RP campaign from Adam Kokesh, although I do not agree that he should have. Although, I would assume Mr. Benton has his reasons. I like to the of Ron Paul actually having some say in his campaign, but after the last campaign, I am not so sure he is really even aware of Mr. Benton's actions half the time. For Ron Paul to state that his campaign does not have the duty to monitor other peoples actions, when presented with donations from white supremists, yet his campaign manager seemingly attempts to monitor Adam Kokesh, then it does not make sense to me. Ron Paul has interviewed with RT in the past, including with Adam Kokesh. The statements by Mr. Benton are irresponsible, in my opinion. I have not donated a single dime to the Ron Paul campaign this year because I do not think the money will be used responsibly. When a campaign has a 5 Million dollar surplus after ending its campaign, enough to start a PAC and give paychecks to employees, I do not think the campaign is really trying to win. Mr. Benton's actions really do not help me change my mind. Of course, Ron Paul will get my support if he makes it to the last 3 or 4 candidates. However, it will not be before that as I have little faith in Mr. Benton spending my money to get him to the end.

I am a little disappointed that you would consider putting a thread in the basement, just because some guy files an FEC complaint that has no legal basis. But its a free country (haha) so you can do what you please.

[angelatc]

I agree Birdlady. It's not about stepping back from the political poison in the crowd. (I'm assuming, with absolutely no evidence at all, that Alex Jones is on the list of shows Paul won't appear on any more.) In fact, it surprises me how many of us actually do understand that. It's about being rude. Ron Paul has always told us not to be rude, and while only a few of us are graced with the social skills to pull that off, it's a trait we greatly respect in him.

[Ex Post Facto]

This is how I would handle it if it ever came up in an interview.
"Some of our supporters are very energetic and enthusiastic about regaining our liberties and freedoms. They may spread that message in ways I do not agree with, but that is what freedom and liberty is all about".

Exactly how I think the campaign should have handled it. I felt like I was watching an establishment Republican campaign team, lash out against a fringe supporter. Adam Kokesh has been very much a part of this movement since the beginning, and I hate seeing dedicated people downplayed. Wasn't Adam one of the first speakers at the first march on Washington back in 2008? I think he deserves more respect from the campaign then to use demeaning words against him.

[jason43]

Yep, thats the first place I ever heard him speak. He was here last time around and should have been taken aside and talked to about the legal issues because of the network/show. Pretty sure he just didnt know and was using his outlet to say what he felt. Honestly with the amount of propaganda that comes out of Fox, MSNBC, and CNN, anything that he said shouldnt have mattered.

[speciallyblend]

I am getting sick and tired of the gop and jesse benton.

[LibertyEagle]

It's a shame Benton used the words he did. But, it's done. Unfortunately, from what Napoleon's Shadow and RPH posted, it sounds like because of Adam's comments about the fundraising, the campaign has to distance themselves from him.

Let it go.

Ron Paul is double digits in the last national poll. Get your perspective back. And sb, it is the members of the GOP who have him in double digits.

[scrosnoe]

You know Rupert Murdoch isn't American, right?

touche'

[scrosnoe]

I am getting sick and tired of the gop and jesse benton.

then keep it to yourself please -- we are trying to win the GOP primary nomination and Jesse Benton is both related to Ron Paul's family by marriage and the campaign press spokesman. keep matters on issues, needs and solutions and we'll all be better off. do unto others...

this is for everyone -- not just speciallyblend:

be a part of the solution or get out of the way~

[speciallyblend]

It's a shame Benton used the words he did. But, it's done. Unfortunately, from what Napoleon's Shadow and RPH posted, it sounds like because of Adam's comments about the fundraising, the campaign has to distance themselves from him.

Let it go.

Ron Paul is double digits in the last national poll. Get your perspective back. And sb, it is the members of the GOP who have him in double digits.

Yes and it is the gop that will make or break their own party!! The gop establishment will do their best to fix it for you though!! Last chance for the gop in my eyes!!

[speciallyblend]

then keep it to yourself please -- we are trying to win the GOP primary nomination and Jesse Benton is both related to Ron Paul's family by marriage and the campaign press spokesman. keep matters on issues, needs and solutions and we'll all be better off. do unto others...

be a part of the solution or get out of the way~

thank you , i am thinking i will be getting out of the way so thank you!! jesse benton can kiss my AZZZZ, but thank you for waking me up and realizing i am wasting my time and money on the gop!!

[Peace&Freedom]

Let the issue go, yes, because Paul's campaign over the next year should be the most crucial focus of the liberty movement. But let's not think the only thing that matters on earth, into perpetuity, is Ron Paul. How are damaging comments by Benton to one of the few libertarian shows that ever got on regular cable supposed to further the cause long term?

Benton did something similar to me in July 2007, when I was hosting independent national teleconferences to promote Paul, by canceling out an appearance 15 minutes before the conference started, saying he didn't want to spare the time with us. Then as now, to Benton, it was all about building a platform for Paul---and only for Paul. How is not building up a communication infrastructure for the movement helping the movement?

[SDMF]

Wow! I just read this thought Id post a link providing some more details, sry if this was already posted/linked.


"Russian channel renegotiaing ties to Ron Paul but still promoting Syria's Assad regime"

"Politico’s Keach Hagey is now reporting that Kokesh’s on-air fundraising for Republican presidential candidate Paul, an apparent violation of U.S. law against foreign contributions to U.S. political campaigns, may have been a factor."

xxw.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2011/ss_media1070_08_26.asp

[LibertyEagle]

Let the issue go, yes, because Paul's campaign over the next year should be the most crucial focus of the liberty movement. But let's not think the only thing that matters on earth, into perpetuity, is Ron Paul. How are damaging comments by Benton to one of the few libertarian show that ever got on regular cable supposed to further the cause long term?

Benton did the something similar to me in July 2007, when I was hosting independent national teleconferences to promote Paul, canceling out an appearance 15 minutes before the conference started, saying he didn't want to spare the time with us. Then as now, to Benton, it was all about building a platform for Paul---and only for Paul. How is not building up a communication infrastructure for the movement helping the movement?

With all due respect, you need to read more of this thread. You have missed the likely reason why it was unwise for Paul to accept an interview with Kokesh and it was because of an ignorant action by Kokesh.

This campaign bashing really needs to stop. What we seem to do best in this movement is to devour our own. It's beyond ridiculous.

[Peace&Freedom]

And with all due respect, I decline to devour Kokesh, over an action that was, and is forgiveable. I did read the thread, and stand by my personal recollection of Benton. Let's not bash the movement either, especially since it has to continue, long after the campaign is over.

[specsaregood]

It's a shame Benton used the words he did.

You mean the words that kokesh heard 2nd hand that benton used. He doesn't even claim to have heard it directly. Funny, if he really did say that in front of a "room full of reporters" as is claimed, you'd think there would have been a recording of it somewhere. I haven't seen/heard one, have you?

[Birdlady]

If it is about distancing himself from a certain facet of the freedom movement, well AJ said on Friday that RP was going to be on his show next week...

What it comes down to is that both should have handled it better. If what Jesse said was actually said and not made up (I agree we really have no idea what happened here), then he did in fact instigate the fight. The problem is that HE IS the spokesman for the campaign, so this has significant consequences. It is different if someone on a forum says something like this because they have very little weight on the entire movement or campaign a as a whole.

They both need to act more professionally in the future. You cannot just pin this on either party. Both are at fault here.

I also don't understand the "just forget about it" attitude on here. Isn't that what we did for years and now look at our country? Not even RP's campaign should not be blindly followed.

[jmdrake]

Matthew 9:10-11
And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Just sayin'.


(most people use scripture as a cop out)

:rolleyes: And some people ignore important lessons just because they happen to be embedded in scripture. Look at any important person in history (including Ron Paul) and you will find that at some point that person kept company with people you might find disagreeable. That's just the nature of life.

[RDM]

Adam vs The Man on Ustream http://www.ustream.tv/channel/adam-vs-the-man-07-26-10

[deadfish]

Jesse Benton, Adam Kokesh, Ron Paul - I love them all for their contribution to Liberty.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4148/ronpaulrevolution.jpg




"If ever the time should come, when vain & aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2017/ak08s.jpg