Republicans want Tax Hikes (for the Poor) (except Ron Paul)

[harikaried]

Most of the article talks about Republican candidates making everyone pay taxes including the poor.
http://www.slate.com/id/2302131/pagenum/all

But at the end, they point to Ron Paul:


There is a Republican case against making sure that poorer people pay income taxes. It's being made by Ron Paul.

"Dr. Paul doesn't want to be president so he can raise taxes on anyone, especially on the poor and middle class," says Ron Paul's spokesman, Jesse Benton. "If half of the American people don't pay income taxes, then we are halfway to our goal of eliminating it for everyone."

[dannno]

Republicans for Tax Hikes
Republicans have finally found a group they want to tax: poor people.

The paper asked Huntsman if "the half of American households no longer paying income tax—mainly working poor families and seniors—should be brought onto the income tax rolls."

He agreed, crediting the GOP's current front-runner for vice president, Sen. Marco Rubio, with the insight that "we don't have enough people paying taxes in this country."


Wow... friggin sickos.. and Republicans wonder why Ron Paul supporters won't support other Republican candidates..

[amy31416]

They need more money for more war. I hope it backfires on them when many of their "base" of working-class Christian Republicans figure out that this means a tax hike for them. And they're practically frothing at the mouth trying to pick their pockets.

Perhaps we should let them know that.

[Agorism]

Man this would make for an awesome commercial if it could be done right.

[YumYum]

This is proof that the division in this country is the rich versus the poor. And why poor people want to defend the rich, makes no sense at all.

[specsaregood]

He agreed, crediting the GOP's current front-runner for vice president, Sen. Marco Rubio, with the insight that "we don't have enough people paying taxes in this country."

Good luck with that VP pick GOP, unless of course you want to lose to Obama....oh wait....

[swiftfoxmark2]

There is no such thing as rich, poor, and middle class in America. There is only producer, looter, and moocher.

[Schiff_FTW]

I have to (reluctantly) agree with the mainstream Repubs on this one. The fact that 50% don't pay federal income tax (yet still vote) is directly correlated with the massive size of the federal government. That seems pretty obvious to me.

[kahless]

I have had to keep my radio turned off. The Neocon angry talking point I keep hearing is the poor are not paying their fair share and that they are not doing enough to contribute to society and federal government. If your unemployed and are not paying federal income tax, this makes the Neocons nuts. Sick bastards.

[YumYum]

There is no such thing as rich, poor, and middle class in America. There is only producer, looter, and moocher.

And as bosso pointed out on another thread, 95% of the producers (small businesses), are being looted (taxed), by the moochers (government).

[amy31416]

Man this would make for an awesome commercial if it could be done right.

That it could.


"We should be doing this even if we had a balanced budget," says Hodge. "This is not really about deficit reduction."

It's about control. It's about opening the door to screw over anyone and everyone into paying for their lavish lifestyles, wars, banker pals, junkets, foreign bribes (aid), their medical treatments, their pensions--it's about making sure that nobody, not even the (coming soon!) mentally ill, homeless vets from the Middle Eastern wars can escape paying the king.

[j6p]

I have to (reluctantly) agree with the mainstream Repubs on this one. The fact that 50% don't pay federal income tax (yet still vote) is directly correlated with the massive size of the federal government. That seems pretty obvious to me.

So its ok to tax people who dont have much, but lets have less tax for the people who make more. Your logic does not make sense.

[dannno]

I have to (reluctantly) agree with the mainstream Repubs on this one. The fact that 50% don't pay federal income tax (yet still vote) is directly correlated with the massive size of the federal government. That seems pretty obvious to me.

Then we should probably educate them about the inflation tax, which they have been paying since 1913.

[j6p]

It starts to get irritating when you have small businesses in non productive enterprises and they wonder why they aren't doing well.

[Schiff_FTW]

Then we should probably educate them about the inflation tax, which they have been paying since 1913.

Of course, but people don't think in seemingly abstract terms like that. Being forced to write a check to the IRS every year is very clear cut.

[YumYum]

Great thread. This will finally get some people to wake up.

[kahless]

I have to (reluctantly) agree with the mainstream Repubs on this one. The fact that 50% don't pay federal income tax (yet still vote) is directly correlated with the massive size of the federal government. That seems pretty obvious to me.

You have millions not working, not receiving an income and not receiving anything from the federal government. So you would tax them since you brought into the Neocon bullshit talking point. God forbid they do not get their pound of flesh for their big government departments, programs and foreign wars.

[amy31416]

I have to (reluctantly) agree with the mainstream Repubs on this one. The fact that 50% don't pay federal income tax (yet still vote) is directly correlated with the massive size of the federal government. That seems pretty obvious to me.

So in your mind, those 50% are all fat women, sitting around having babies and driving swanky cars? Uhh, no. That would also be people who are lower-middle class--->middle class. People who work in shops, hair salons, restaurants, students trying to pay tuition, babysitters, welders, people trying to start a small business, lab techs, receptionists, etc...people who may very well have ambitions to get ahead, or get their kids ahead.

And you want them to be taxed more? On top of all the other ways they're taxed? Hell, I defend not taxing the rich all the time--no way in hell that there's a good argument to tax the lower-income people.

[dannno]

Of course, but people don't think in seemingly abstract terms like that. Being forced to write a check to the IRS every year is very clear cut.

But they're already getting taxed very heavily, they just don't know it. If we got rid of the inflation tax, then I might consider a 'flatter' tax structure, as long as overall taxes are reduced and spending is heavily reduced. However this would be better done through a sales tax than an income tax.

[Schiff_FTW]

You have millions not working, not receiving an income and not receiving anything from the federal government. So you would tax them since you brought into the Neocon bullshit talking point. God forbid they do not get their pound of flesh for their big government departments, programs and foreign wars.

I'm confused. I didn't buy into anything. Many of the people who support the "big government departments, programs and foreign wars" are the ones who do not pay any taxes. All I'm saying is if they paid taxes they would be less likely to vote that way.

[YumYum]

But they're already getting taxed very heavily, they just don't know it. If we got rid of the inflation tax, then I might consider a 'flatter' tax structure, as long as overall taxes are reduced and spending is heavily reduced. However this would be better done through a sales tax than an income tax.

That is a very good point because the majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck; "hand to mouth", and do not have the luxury of taking their FRNs and converting them into gold or silver to hedge against inflation. When inflation hits hard, its always the worker who gets stung the worst and who is at the bottom of the barrel.

[Schiff_FTW]

So in your mind, those 50% are all fat women, sitting around having babies and driving swanky cars? Uhh, no. That would also be people who are lower-middle class--->middle class. People who work in shops, hair salons, restaurants, students trying to pay tuition, babysitters, welders, people trying to start a small business, lab techs, receptionists, etc...people who may very well have ambitions to get ahead, or get their kids ahead.

And you want them to be taxed more? On top of all the other ways they're taxed? Hell, I defend not taxing the rich all the time--no way in hell that there's a good argument to tax the lower-income people.

Who do you think votes for big government? By and large the very people you described. It doesn't matter that it is inefficient and corrupt -- no skin off their back, they don't pay for it anyway. Whatever benefits they get for it is just gravy (in their mind, not in reality of course).

My end goal is smaller government -- and we're not going to get there when half the voting public feels no personal consequences for their decision on election day.

[Schiff_FTW]

Note: I don't pay a dime in federal income taxes (make too little) yet I always vote libertarian. Most people are not like me.

[kah13176]

I agree with Schiff. 50% of people are incentivized not to care about libertarian principles. Why shouldn't we vote Obama - after all, he's kept our taxes at 0.

[YumYum]

I agree with Schiff. 50% of people are incentivized not to care about libertarian principles. Why shouldn't we vote Obama - after all, he's kept our taxes at 0.

Where are you guys getting these statistics???

[amy31416]

Who do you think votes for big government? By and large the very people you described. It doesn't matter that it is inefficient and corrupt -- no skin off their back, they don't pay for it anyway. Whatever benefits they get for it is just gravy (in their mind, not in reality of course).

My end goal is smaller government -- and we're not going to get there when half the voting public feels no personal consequences for their decision on election day.

You want to achieve smaller government by giving the gov't more sources of revenue. What could possibly go wrong?

And you really think that every waiter, machinist, barber, etc. that I listed votes for big gov't and must be punished via theft? How asinine.

[amy31416]

Note: I don't pay a dime in federal income taxes (make too little) yet I always vote libertarian. Most people are not like me.

A lot of people around here are, and you'd screw us all. Well, hopefully you're consistent and also support the Obamacare mandate.

[gls]

You want to achieve smaller government by giving the gov't more sources of revenue. What could possibly go wrong?

And you really think that every waiter, machinist, barber, etc. that I listed votes for big gov't and must be punished via theft? How asinine.

I want to achieve smaller government by making people actually pay for the government they vote for.

For example I don't have cable TV because I consider it too expensive. I would gladly have cable TV if it was provided to me for free.

This is how most voters think. Change the cost/benefit ratio, change the voting patterns.

Of course it will never happen because the current system - making people think they're getting something for nothing when they're actually being fleeced blind by inflation - serves the elite too well.

[gls]

A lot of people around here are, and you'd screw us all. Well, hopefully you're consistent and also support the Obamacare mandate.

Yes, I would gladly pay federal income taxes if it helped hasten the end of the corporate warfare-welfare state. All you're doing is advocating for the failed status-quo.

[amy31416]

Yes, I would gladly pay federal income taxes if it helped hasten the end of the corporate warfare-welfare state. All you're doing is advocating for the failed status-quo.

So you and the Schiff guy both think that the way to smaller gov't is by giving the gov't more revenue and that will end the warfare-welfare state.

Well, have at it: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtFinance

Oh wait--your brilliant plan won't work unless ALL people are forced to give, and your plan is certain to work, right?

[amy31416]

I want to achieve smaller government by making people actually pay for the government they vote for.

For example I don't have cable TV because I consider it too expensive. I would gladly have cable TV if it was provided to me for free.

This is how most voters think. Change the cost/benefit ratio, change the voting patterns.

Of course it will never happen because the current system - making people think they're getting something for nothing when they're actually being fleeced blind by inflation - serves the elite too well.

The people who would be harmed by this, the majority of them don't get anything for free...unless you think that being able to keep what you earned is getting a handout.

[gls]

So you and the Schiff guy both think that the way to smaller gov't is by giving the gov't more revenue and that will end the warfare-welfare state.

Well, have at it: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtFinance

Oh wait--you brilliant plan won't work unless ALL people are forced to give, and your plan is certain to work, right?

If people were forced to directly pay for big government - instead of having it surreptitiously financed through inflation (where the rising prices can be blamed on "greedy corporations") - there would be much less of it. I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

What's your solution (besides more of the same, of course)?

[gls]

The people who would be harmed by this, the majority of them don't get anything for free...unless you think that being able to keep what you earned is getting a handout.

Sure they do -- they get the wars, the bailouts, and the giant bureaucracies all for "free". If people were forced to directly pay for these things just maybe they might vote against them.

[amy31416]

If people were forced to directly pay for big government - instead of having it surreptitiously financed through inflation (where the rising prices can be blamed on "greedy corporations") - there would be much less of it. I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

What's your solution (besides more of the same, of course)?

Almost as unrealistic as your idea: stop funding them entirely. 50% down, 50% to go. Quite realistic if RP wins.

[amy31416]

Sure they do -- they get the wars, the bailouts, and the giant bureaucracies all for "free". If people were forced to directly pay for these things just maybe they might vote against them.

Listen, I understand your point, but it'll never work. The gov't will never send out a bill for the wars, bankers or Wall Street. It doesn't change anything except to give them an even larger base to exploit.

[Travlyr]

Then we should probably educate them about the inflation tax, which they have been paying since 1913.

That is for sure. The more people learn about the inflation tax the sooner we win.

The inflation tax is HUGE and hidden. ~ 95% of people's inherited wealth so far. The inflation tax is responsible for the seemingly big government and military-industrial-complex the media tells us we must endure. Before 1913, when they achieved the power to pilfer money out of everybody's bank account on a minute by minute basis to fund their schemes, government was somewhat constitutional, fairly limited, there were many more statesmen representatives, and many fewer political whores.


Bernanke is not copying Keynes, he is copying Lenin. (http://investmentwatchblog.com/bernanke-is-not-copying-keynes-he-is-copying-lenin/)

The actual passage, partially attributed to Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, appears in Keynes’s book, “The Economic Consequences of the Peace”, which became an international bestseller when it was published in 1919.

The actual text of the book (pp 148-9) reads:

Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some.

[LadyBastiat]

I have to (reluctantly) agree with the mainstream Repubs on this one. The fact that 50% don't pay federal income tax (yet still vote) is directly correlated with the massive size of the federal government. That seems pretty obvious to me.

True, but wouldn't zero % of Americans paying an income tax have an even better effect. :)

[Acala]

Who do you think votes for big government? By and large the very people you described. .

Everybody who has voted for almost any Republican or Democrat in the last thirty years has voted for big government.

[Brett85]

It should also be mentioned that the poor still have to pay the payroll tax, the Medicare tax, the unemployment tax, state income taxes, sales tax, property tax, and the list goes on and on. The last thing we need is to raise federal income taxes on the poor when they're already paying all these other taxes. Ron should really run a commercial highlighting this issue.

[silentshout]

Completely sick. Paul is like one of the only voices of sanity in the GOP. I will never vote for one of those neocon creeps.

[Humanae Libertas]

It shit like this that gets them voted out in future elections. Wouldn't be surprised one bit if Democrat gets into office next year.

[Elfshadow]

How much do you think you would actully get out of an income tax on these people? They barely have an income at all. Hell I consider myself to be doing well and I made a whole twenty six thousand dollars last year.

[Brian4Liberty]

Ron Paul gets it right again!

[Brian4Liberty]

If people were forced to directly pay for big government - instead of having it surreptitiously financed through inflation (where the rising prices can be blamed on "greedy corporations") - there would be much less of it. I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

What's your solution (besides more of the same, of course)?

No income tax at all is one solution. There are plenty of other taxes and fees collected by the government.

I am against all income taxes, so it becomes pretty simple at that point.

Another option is a low, flat, across the board income tax with no exceptions, deductions, write-offs, shelters or social, economic and market engineering attempts would be preferable to what we have today. But that would be fought tooth and nail by the corporatists who have built advantages into the current system, and also the IRS and tax-related industries.

[Brian4Liberty]

It should also be mentioned that the poor still have to pay the payroll tax, the Medicare tax, the unemployment tax, state income taxes, sales tax, property tax, and the list goes on and on. The last thing we need is to raise federal income taxes on the poor when they're already paying all these other taxes. Ron should really run a commercial highlighting this issue.

The following website lists about 95 other taxes...

http://www.whatistaxed.com/other_taxes.htm


Here is a list of some taxes imposed (government revenue sources)

Accounts Receivable Tax

Accumulated Earnings Tax

Ad Valorem Tax (includes duties on imported items), also see Property tax Ad valorem tax

Alternative Minimum Tax Alternative minimum tax

Aviation Fuel Tax Aviation fuel tax

Capital Gains Tax Capital gains tax

Cement and Gypsum Producers License Tax Cement producers license tax

Cigarette Tax Cigarette Tax

Coal Severance Tax

Coal Gross Proceeds Tax Coal gross proceeds tax

Consumer Counsel Tax Consumer council tax

Consumption Tax Consumption tax

Corporate Income Tax Corporate income tax

Corporation License Tax

Court Fines (revenue from many activities) Court fines

Customs Duty Customs duty

Dog License Tax Dog license tax

Double Tax Double taxation

Electrical Energy Producers Tax

Estate Tax, Inheritance Estate Tax, Inheritance tax

Federal Income Tax Federal income tax

Federal Unemployment Tax Federal unemployment tax

Fishing License Tax Fishing license tax

Food Service License Tax Food service license tax

Fuel Permit License Tax Fuel permit license tax

Gas Guzzler Tax Gas guzzler tax

Gasoline Tax (8 to 35 cents per gallon) Per tank? Gasoline tax

Generation-skipping Transfer Tax

Gift Tax Gift tax

Gross Production Tax

Hospital Facility Utilization Fee Tax Hospital facility utilization fee tax

Hunting License Fee Tax Hunting license tax

Inheritance Tax, see Estate Tax

Inventory Tax Inventory tax

IRS Interest Charges IRS interest charges

IRS Penalties Tax IRS penalties

Kiddie Tax Kiddie tax

Land Value Tax Land value tax

Liquor License Tax Liquor license tax

Liquor Tax Liquor tax

Local Tax

Lodging Facility Use Tax Lodging facility use tax

Luxury Tax Luxury tax

Marriage License Tax Marriage license revenue

Medicare Tax Medicare tax

Metal Mines Gross Proceeds Tax

Metal Mines License TaxMetal mines license tax

Miscellaneous Mineral Mines License Tax Miscellaneous mineral mines license revenue

Miscellaneous Mines Net Proceeds Tax Miscellaneous mines net proceeds tax

Nursing Facility Bed Tax Nursing facility bed tax

Oil and Natural Gas Production Tax Oil and Natural Gas production tax

Parking Meter Tax Parking meter tax

Payroll Tax Payroll tax

Professional PrivilegeTax Professional privilege tax

Property Tax Property tax

Proxy Tax Proxy tax

Public Contractor's Gross Receipts Tax Public contractor's gross receipts tax

Public Service Commission Tax

Public Utility Tax Public utility tax

Real Estate Tax Real estate tax

Real Estate Transfer Tax Real estate transfer tax

Rental Vehicle Sales Tax Rental vehicle sales tax

Resort Tax Resort tax

Resource Indemnity and Groundwater Assessment Tax Resource indemnity and groundwater assessment tax

Retail Telecommunications Excise Tax Retail telecommunications excise tax

Sales Tax Sales tax

School Tax School tax

Self-Employment Tax Self employment tax

Septic Permit Tax Septic tank permit tax

Severance Tax Severance tax

Social Security Tax Social security tax

State Income Tax State Income tax

State Unemployment Tax State unemployment tax

Statewide Emergency Telephone 911 System Fee Tax State 911 telephone tax

Surtax Tax - Extra tax. Surtax - Extra tax

Tariffs - A tax on imports. Needed to protect all the industries we used to have.
Tariffs

Telephone Federal Excise Tax Telephone federal excise tax

Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Since May of 1997, "This helps provide affordable phone service and gives schools, libraries, and rural healthcare providers access to the Internet."

Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax

TDD Telecommunications Service Fee Tax TDD telecommunications service fee tax

Tobacco Products Tax (Other than Cigarettes) Tobacco products tax

Toll Road Fee Tax Toll road tax

Toll Bridge Fee Tax Toll bridge fee tax

Toll Tunnel Fee Tax Toll tunnel fee tax

Tonnage Tax

Traffic Fines Traffic fines

Trailer Registration Fee Tax Trailer registration tax

Use Tax Use tax

Utility Tax, see Public Utility Tax

Vehicle Registration and License Tax Vehicle registration and license tax

Vehicle Sales Tax Vehicle sales tax

Watercraft Registration Tax Watercraft registration tax

Well Permit Tax Well permit tax

Wholesale Energy Transaction Tax

Workers Compensation Tax Workers compensation tax

[TCE]

This is actually pretty popular amongst your average, stereotypical white Republican. They figure 50% of the population doesn't pay, so it isn't fair. They have a point, but they're looking at it the wrong way. This idea is that the current system is unfair to half the population, so everyone else should have to suffer, too. They should focus on getting the burden off that upper 50%, not putting it on everyone else.

[Cutlerzzz]

Michele Bachmann and the Republicans(save Gingrich) all said that they would NEVER support a tax increase, just two weeks ago.

[dannno]

Michele Bachmann and the Republicans(save Gingrich) all said that they would NEVER support a tax increase, just two weeks ago.

They were just talking about rich people.

[Cutlerzzz]

They were just talking about rich people.

True.

This flip flop should make a great campaign issue for us.

[YumYum]

They were just talking about rich people.

And with the exception of Ron Paul, this article is proof that Republicans are all about the rich. There is no reason why any lower middle-class to middle-class American, who is Republican, should be voting for any of the Republican candidates, with the exception Ron Paul.

No where did these candidates mention cutting military spending or foreign aid. The fishes at the top want a class warfare in this country between the rich and the poor.

[j6p]

This is very true if Ron Paul does not get the nod, than it's BAMA all the way.

[Feeding the Abscess]

This needs to be made into a campaign commercial. IMMEDIATELY.

[YumYum]

This needs to be made into a campaign commercial. IMMEDIATELY.

I second and triple that! He could get just about every middle class voter in the County I live in if they only knew. This NEEDS to get out NOW!!!