Jon Huntsman making his appeal to Independant voters; could hurt Paul

[fearthereaperx]

If you haven't been following the news recently, Huntsman has lashed out at Perry and the rest of the GOP field on their views on Global Warming and Evolution. He's setting himself apart from the far right and going after independant voters. Obviously, a little too late to make any huge grounds and the fact that it's the counter-intuitive move to do in the primaries , but he could be taking some potential, undecided voters from Ron Paul, since Paul overlaps with the center and left-leaning base. The MSM media, politico-elites seem to secretly back him as well.

Just a heads up guys...also..Gary Johnson ,along with Reason Mag/establishmentarian libertarians backing him, is also making an all-in push in NH. Paul needs to be prepared for this possible voter-squeeze on his electorate, Especially, in NH.

[trey4sports]

http://www.ldinfo.com/images/scared.gif

[Paul4Prez]

Another fly hitting the windshield of the Ron Paul Express, just like Pawlenty, Cain, Gingrich, Santorum, Johnson, etc.

[hueylong]

Huntsman doesn't have two voters to rub together. Completely irrelevant to Paul.

[Billay]

Huntsmans interview was great if he was running for the Democrats nomination. We aren't going to win unless we have Republican support.

[CaptainAmerica]

Jon Huntsman won't get far with his favorite phrase "Net Gain". Mitt Romney sounds identical with Jon with the "Net Gain" phrase.

[RIPLEYMOM]

This, and the sudden shift towards RP logic, makes it obvious to me that Huntsman and the rest of them know who to beat. This could mean we're winning.

[rp08orbust]

I'm actually a bit worried about Jon Hunstman. I think he has a good chance of winning the Presidency 5 straw poll, being the only one who is sending direct mail to the delegates.

[specsaregood]

Huntsmans interview was great if he was running for the Democrats nomination. We aren't going to win unless we have Republican support.

My MIL who is a democrat (loves Hillary) but is still fairly independent saw the Huntsman interview and just tonight over dinner said, "I saw that Huntsman guy, he is horrible!"

[mport1]

Ron Paul's Christianity and belief in intelligent design is troubling to me, but I know that this does not affect any of his policy decisions. I would hope others would understand this as well.

[jbuttell]

Gary Johnson seems like he's probably an ok guy - but him being in the race reminds me a little of Bachmann who cherry picks Ron's positions for political gain. What they have in common from my perspective is their proclaimed respect for Ron Paul... at one time. Now, they both run and its almost like they're throwing Ron under the bus. I know the answer to the question I'm about to ask, but I'll ask it anyway.

Why would Johnson or Bachmann run against, rather than campaign for Ron? It's like all the praise and respect they had for Ron was all bullshit. So, there's really very little chance that I'll vote for Johnson as a 3rd party if it comes down to that - based simply on the fact that he ran against Ron.

[parocks]

Whatever Independents Huntsman is trying to appeal to are not the same type of Independents that Ron Paul appeals to.

Believing in Global Warming is not limited constitutional government, at least it's not seen that way.

[Cutlerzzz]

They appeal to opposite independents.

Paul "agrees(obviously Republicans are frauds)" with Republicans that taxes, spending, and regulation should be lower, and he appeals to independents by opposing the wars, overseas bases, foreign aid, the war on drugs, the Patriot Act, ect... Paul appeals to independents because he breaks with Republicans on the warfare state, while "agreeing" with mainstream Republicans that the welfare state is bad.

Huntsman generally agrees with the Republicans on issues like foreign policy, the war on drugs, ect..., while appealing to independents by "opposing" Republicans and supporting Cap and Trade, Stimulus, Obamacare, ect...

Huntsman openly supports big government at home and abroad. His appeal to independents comes from the fact that he breaks with the Republicans and supports welfare state, while agreeing with them by supporting the warfare state. Huntsman's appeal is that he supports the state in almost every situation, while Paul's is that he opposes it. They honestly agree on virtually nothing. I know of no common ground.

[Sola_Fide]

If you haven't been following the news recently, Huntsman has lashed out at Perry and the rest of the GOP field on their views on Global Warming and Evolution. He's setting himself apart from the far right and going after independant voters. Obviously, a little too late to make any huge grounds and the fact that it's the counter-intuitive move to do in the primaries , but he could be taking some potential, undecided voters from Ron Paul, since Paul overlaps with the center and left-leaning base. The MSM media, politico-elites seem to secretly back him as well.

Just a heads up guys...also..Gary Johnson ,along with Reason Mag/establishmentarian libertarians backing him, is also making an all-in push in NH. Paul needs to be prepared for this possible voter-squeeze on his electorate, Especially, in NH.

Why do you assume most independents are evolution and global warming nuts? If anything, I think the opposite is true.

Evolution and global warming are elements of this statist system that many independents want to separate from.

[sailingaway]

If you haven't been following the news recently, Huntsman has lashed out at Perry and the rest of the GOP field on their views on Global Warming and Evolution. He's setting himself apart from the far right and going after independant voters. Obviously, a little too late to make any huge grounds and the fact that it's the counter-intuitive move to do in the primaries , but he could be taking some potential, undecided voters from Ron Paul, since Paul overlaps with the center and left-leaning base. The MSM media, politico-elites seem to secretly back him as well.

Just a heads up guys...also..Gary Johnson ,along with Reason Mag/establishmentarian libertarians backing him, is also making an all-in push in NH. Paul needs to be prepared for this possible voter-squeeze on his electorate, Especially, in NH.

Yeah, that Gary Johnson push, with people inside the liberty movement is the bigger pain, since they may be convincing some who would otherwise go to Ron, with Reason and the rest of the Kochtupus pushing Gary. I'm hoping they'll see that any impact they would have would just be as a spoiler, Gary is barely registering in polls. And I agree with an earlier poster that if Gary being in the race in New Hampshire costs Ron delegates, I can't see him ever getting support from a Paul supporter, regardless of what capacity he sought the support for.

Huntsman I don't see appealing to the same kind of voter, but I guess we might have picked up some plain vanilla voters who were just sick of Obama. Seems to me they'd be likilier to go to Romney though.

[trey4sports]

lol Gary Johnson wont get 2 percent in NH

[Epic]

Huntsman pulls from Romney - he's in the establishment moderate big-government mormon mold.

[sailingaway]

lol Gary Johnson wont get 2 percent in NH

But if that shaves off delegates from Ron's total, that is a problem. Mind you some people pushing Gary seem to outright hate Ron, and those wouldn't vote for Ron, anyhow.

[Lafayette]

Huntsman supporters would fill the seats that weren't taken by Santorum's people at the Iowa Quiznos

[Brennon]

Ron Paul's Christianity and belief in intelligent design is troubling to me, but I know that this does not affect any of his policy decisions. I would hope others would understand this as well.

To be fair, EVERY candidate up there will claim to be Christian (or some denomination...I lump Mormons in, which they are, despite what Evangelicals may say) and believe in ID. Even if they claim to believe in evolution, they'll claim it was the work of ID. You simply do not win in either party as an Atheist/Agnostic. In another twenty years that will probably change.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

Huntsman is camped out in Florida trying to do well there.

[WilliamC]

Huntsman? Johnson?

I don't think so.

Now if Palin and Paul Ryan get into the race, or Chris Christie, then they have name recognition and share similar sentiments with Ron Paul on some important issues.

They would be more of a threat.

[RonPaulFever]

Huntsman is camped out in Florida

Literally. I let him pitch a tent in my front yard.

[Brett85]

Yes, I'm really worried about the guy who received 69 votes in the Ames straw poll. As a side note, he would pose a serious threat to Obama if he ran against him in the Democratic primary.

[Brett85]

Ron Paul's Christianity and belief in intelligent design is troubling to me, but I know that this does not affect any of his policy decisions. I would hope others would understand this as well.

That's certainly a big plus for me. That should help him in the GOP primary if he lets voters know what he actually believes.

[69360]

If you haven't been following the news recently, Huntsman has lashed out at Perry and the rest of the GOP field on their views on Global Warming and Evolution. He's setting himself apart from the far right and going after independant voters. Obviously, a little too late to make any huge grounds and the fact that it's the counter-intuitive move to do in the primaries , but he could be taking some potential, undecided voters from Ron Paul, since Paul overlaps with the center and left-leaning base. The MSM media, politico-elites seem to secretly back him as well.

Just a heads up guys...also..Gary Johnson ,along with Reason Mag/establishmentarian libertarians backing him, is also making an all-in push in NH. Paul needs to be prepared for this possible voter-squeeze on his electorate, Especially, in NH.

Seriously? Maybe Huntsman will get 70 votes next time.

Johnson is a good guy, he will endorse RP at some point soon, count on it.

[Working Poor]

There is an interview that has been posted here several times in the past few days that is kinda long but Ron is asked a lot of questions he was asked about global warming. I wish that interview could be cut into smaller sections so that we could spread them around I would particularly like to show the spot where he was talking about global warming.

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul's Christianity and belief in intelligent design is troubling to me, but I know that this does not affect any of his policy decisions. I would hope others would understand this as well.

Interesting, I consider his Christianity to be icing on the already wonderful cake. :)

[dusman]

http://www.ldinfo.com/images/scared.gif

Bahaha! Love it.

[RonPaulFever]

Talking about the environment has never been Ron's strong suit, at least in the debates. With all of the big issues to be addressed (economy, war, etc), hopefully it won't come up in the future.

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm actually a bit worried about Jon Hunstman. I think he has a good chance of winning the Presidency 5 straw poll, being the only one who is sending direct mail to the delegates.

That will just mean that the "Presidency" straw poll loses its winning streak.

[LibertyEagle]

They appeal to opposite independents.

Paul "agrees(obviously Republicans are frauds)" with Republicans that taxes, spending, and regulation should be lower, and he appeals to independents by opposing the wars, overseas bases, foreign aid, the war on drugs, the Patriot Act, ect... Paul appeals to independents because he breaks with Republicans on the warfare state, while "agreeing" with mainstream Republicans that the welfare state is bad.

1. I think you are confusing the party leaders at the top with the rank and file Republicans.
2. Ron Paul is a Republican.
3. WE are Republicans, or better be in every state that requires it in order to vote in the primary.
4. Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party.

I know you were just making an example, but please let's not wholesale insult the same people whose votes the campaign is working so hard to get for Ron Paul.

[jmdrake]

Huntsman pulls from Romney - he's in the establishment moderate big-government mormon mold.

^Thread winner!

[jmdrake]

If you haven't been following the news recently, Huntsman has lashed out at Perry and the rest of the GOP field on their views on Global Warming and Evolution. He's setting himself apart from the far right and going after independant voters. Obviously, a little too late to make any huge grounds and the fact that it's the counter-intuitive move to do in the primaries , but he could be taking some potential, undecided voters from Ron Paul, since Paul overlaps with the center and left-leaning base. The MSM media, politico-elites seem to secretly back him as well.

Non issue. Independents aren't abandoning Obama because he didn't do enough on "global warming" or because he's not strong enough on "evolution". They're leaving him because the economy sucks and because Obama got us into yet another war. (or two or three?) Plus belief in man made global warming is at an all time low. Hunstman picked the wrong time to jump on that bandwaggon.

Slightly less than half of Americans believe in man made global warming.
See: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/14/poll-global-warming-fears-cooling/

And only 39% believe in evolution.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2009/02/12/4427408-poll-just-39-believe-in-evolution

Any democrats and/or independents who care enough about those issues to actually vote based on them are not going to vote in the GOP primary. And if they do they are too brain dead to vote for Dr. Paul anyway. (I'm not saying someone is brain dead for believing in global warming or evolution. I'm saying their brain dead to make that a campaign issue. Good grief, the POTUS isn't the school board chair!)



Just a heads up guys...also..Gary Johnson ,along with Reason Mag/establishmentarian libertarians backing him, is also making an all-in push in NH. Paul needs to be prepared for this possible voter-squeeze on his electorate, Especially, in NH.

Gary who?

[fearthereaperx]

Seriously? Maybe Huntsman will get 70 votes next time.

Johnson is a good guy, he will endorse RP at some point soon, count on it.

GJ is counting on New Hampshire; when, he should, count on dropping out and endorsing RP, not trying to build up a small base there of Reasonoids who despise their own kind.

[speciallyblend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIMvMcm0dmU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIMvMcm0dmU

[fearthereaperx]

Non issue. Independents aren't abandoning Obama because he didn't do enough on "global warming" or because he's not strong enough on "evolution". They're leaving him because the economy sucks and because Obama got us into yet another war. (or two or three?) Plus belief in man made global warming is at an all time low. Hunstman picked the wrong time to jump on that bandwaggon.

Slightly less than half of Americans believe in man made global warming.
See: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/14/poll-global-warming-fears-cooling/

And only 39% believe in evolution.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2009/02/12/4427408-poll-just-39-believe-in-evolution

Any democrats and/or independents who care enough about those issues to actually vote based on them are not going to vote in the GOP primary. And if they do they are too brain dead to vote for Dr. Paul anyway. (I'm not saying someone is brain dead for believing in global warming or evolution. I'm saying their brain dead to make that a campaign issue. Good grief, the POTUS isn't the school board chair!)




Yeah, but there is an uncompetitive market out there for moderate conservatives, independants, that Huntsman is vying for. Since he hardly has any NAME ID, he can only go up in the polls if more of that base hears about him--which will happen and which is why he made those strategically targeted tweets. The problem here is that Ron Paul has a considerable hand in that market as well, so does Romney, and can't afford to compete with another person and lose Indy voters to a candidate who runs on a hip and chic 'Climate Change/ Evolution' platform. In that case, he has the potential to take away and draw from the undecided younger people, the same people that Ron Paul would benefit from and who would help to win the nomination.

You can already see the comparisons made on Reddit and other forums with Huntsman and Paul used in the same sentence and users jumping on to huntsman soley because of his recent 'Pro-Science' comments. Terrible sticky points, but points nonetheless that younger, naive people, take serious cause to and would rather overlook real issues on the economy, endless wars, civil liberty abuse. Just look how they supported Obama.

[jmdrake]

Terrible sticky points, but points nonetheless that younger, naive people, take serious cause to and would rather overlook real issues on the economy, endless wars, civil liberty abuse. Just look how they supported Obama.

You may not realize this, but you just made the case about why this is nothing to worry about. At least to me. Like you said people like this support Obama. The most likely scenario is that they will continue to support Obama. I mean really. If you don't care about how bad the economy is, if you're giving Obama a pass on the wars and on civil liberty abuse, if global warming and evolution are your main issues, then what possible reason do you have to support John Huntsman over Obama? Oh sure, you might tweet a "I'm glad John Huntsman agrees with Obama and me on issue X", but does that really translate into votes? I think it's great that governor Chris Christie believes the Sharia law fearmongering is "crazy", but that doesn't mean I'd support a Chris Christie campaign.

[RonPaul101.com]

I think we (and the campaign) should work hard for the Presidency 5 poll.

[ForLibertyFight]

69 votes.

[Rothbardian Girl]

Whatever Independents Huntsman is trying to appeal to are not the same type of Independents that Ron Paul appeals to.

Believing in Global Warming is not limited constitutional government, at least it's not seen that way.

Paul could very easily turn some Independents who accept climate-change theory as valid, though, if he stressed the fact that the EPA and other state agencies have been decidedly ineffective at preventing climate change due to the partnerships between big government and corporations who blindly wreck the environment (BP is a recent example that comes to mind). The problem is not global warming in my opinion, it's statists who use global warming to impose rigid, ineffective controls that are easily avoided by the real culprits.

Probably not a tactic that would win him favor with out-and-out global warming skeptics in the Republican party, but it could be a useful tool for the general election. The problem is explaining all of what I just posted in 30-second soundbites, and convincing even people in the liberty movement of this kind of thing. Paul already supports 'green libertarianism', at least according to the Wikipedia page on it, so I'm sure he's aware of the connections. It's just something that isn't too popular to bring up to his target audience at least for right now.

[Johncjackson]

Whatever Independents Huntsman is trying to appeal to are not the same type of Independents that Ron Paul appeals to.

Believing in Global Warming is not limited constitutional government, at least it's not seen that way.

"Not seen that way" is more accurate.

Believing that believing in Global Warming is not limited constitutional government, is not consistent with limited constitutional government.

Limited Government is not adherence to a certain set of beliefs, other than the beliefs for what is the proper role of government(s).

Saying that believing in Global Warming is statist is like saying that thinking drug addiction is bad is statist or being against bigotry is statist. It is only statist if you believe the proper role of government is intervention on behalf or your beliefs at the expense of others.

Being anti-intellectual or anti-science is not representative of believing in limited in government.

[Buchananite]

No point in appealing to them because he first has to win the primary.

I am glad he chose to run....takes away from Romney.