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Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 12:45 PM
My Ron Paul signs have been disappearing, so of course I just keep putting them out. The Marshall told a neighbor that the signs are illegal and that he is the one who has been taking them down. Apparently you must have a permit to have a sign that can be seen from a hwy. He said that he would go after us if we put any more signs up. If it were a big city I wouldn't worry about it, but we stick out like a sore thumb here in our small community. It would be too easy to directly link us to the signs, so it appears that I have to stop putting up signs. I am very upset about this, any advise?

American
11-03-2007, 12:49 PM
WOW, well what has been happening is you need to find the code/rule that says it then call the ACLU and see if its legal for them to do it. This is a different angel, the highway part so I dont know what the answer is.

I would pursue it though.

Then remember who is doing this to you for the next election....:)

Alabama Supporter
11-03-2007, 12:51 PM
You may want to put some out in high traffic areas during the weekends and pull them up on Sunday night. Alot of the sign picker-upers don't work on the weekend. Real Estate agents do alot of this to promote their new neighborhoods.

r3volution
11-03-2007, 12:51 PM
where do you live ?

Corydoras
11-03-2007, 12:53 PM
What's a marshal? Is it like a sheriff or a police officer or something like that?

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 12:57 PM
What's a marshal? Is it like a sheriff or a police officer or something like that?

Yes, it a department of law enforcement

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 12:57 PM
where do you live ?

AZ

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-03-2007, 12:58 PM
I worked fund raising for the ACLU.

I doubt those guys will be of much help.

they were founded around the same idea of controlling us and our alternate help options.

I wont go into too much detail but I read alot about the founders and close friends of and projects they worked on and defended. Those guys are bad. If you contribute I would say stop.

They had me raising tons of money to stop the Military Commissions ACT and they didn't do crap about it. The real way is to elect Ron Paul not give them 86 million a year.\

needless to say I stayed working with them so I can tell people on the streets face to face about Ron Paul ;)
but I quit recently because I just couldnt trick people into paying the ACLU for nothing and their failed/false attempts at liberty.

spivey378
11-03-2007, 12:59 PM
put em up and take em down and move em around!

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 12:59 PM
You may want to put some out in high traffic areas during the weekends and pull them up on Sunday night. Alot of the sign picker-upers don't work on the weekend. Real Estate agents do alot of this to promote their new neighborhoods.

If it were just a "picker-upper" then I would just ignore it, but we are talking about a busybody with a badge and a gun.

Geronimo
11-03-2007, 12:59 PM
Forget about using the wire wickets and start taking a ladder with you to post the signs on telephone poles.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 01:00 PM
I worked fund raising for the ACLU.

I doubt those guys will be of much help.

they were founded around the same idea of controlling us and our alternate help options.

I wont go into too much detail but I read alot about the founders and close friends of and projects they worked on and defended. Those guys are bad. If you contribute I would say stop.

They had me raising tons of money to stop the Military Commissions ACT and they didn't do crap about it. The real way is to elect Ron Paul not give them 86 million a year.\

needless to say I stayed working with them so I can tell people on the streets face to face about Ron Paul ;)
but I quit recently because I just couldnt trick people into paying the ACLU for nothing and their failed/false attempts at liberty.

I've always viewed the ACLU like the NRA, shills

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 01:01 PM
Forget about using the wire wickets and start taking a ladder with you to post the signs on telephone poles.

how does this solve the Marshal problem again?

r3volution
11-03-2007, 01:11 PM
you need to be more specific about your location . did you get the sign code yet ?

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-03-2007, 01:14 PM
I've always viewed the ACLU like the NRA, shills

The ACLU won't even defend the 2nd amendment!!!!!

and I don't know a lot about the NRA but it seems they are wanting to take away rights these days!!!!

"they" totally control the alternate help options and media.
they did all this around the 20's and have had a grip since.
Right after the Fed took over.

MsDoodahs
11-03-2007, 01:20 PM
Get a copy of the code.

See if he's within the law or if he's doing creative interpretation.

Then come back here and we'll brainstorm ways to get your signs up.

freelance
11-03-2007, 01:25 PM
I've always viewed the ACLU like the NRA, shills

It took me a long time to admit it to myself, but they're both "controlled opposition," part of the same one-party war party as everything else.

Steve4RP
11-03-2007, 01:25 PM
Have you considered looking into the requirements for getting a permit?

bbachtung
11-03-2007, 01:28 PM
Thomas Paine, what city / town do you live in in Arizona?

What law has the Marshall cited re: your signs?

I helped BLS out with his issues in Minnesota, and am happy to do some research for you.

BLS
11-03-2007, 01:32 PM
Thomas Paine, what city / town do you live in in Arizona?

What law has the Marshall cited re: your signs?

I helped BLS out with his issues in Minnesota, and am happy to do some research for you.


YEAH!!!!

Kick their asses BB!!

walt
11-03-2007, 01:45 PM
contact your local ACLU office. They might actually help take on the case if you present clear non-emotional facts.

ladyliberty
11-03-2007, 01:47 PM
Is it against the law to stand on the side of the road and hold your sign where everyone can see it?? :D

Is it against the law to decorate your yard? :D

On the other hand, a person like me would probably make a whole dumpster full of "disposable" signs out of cardboard, store them in the basement or garage and then keep putting them out by the hundreds under cover of night! :D

For every sign that gets yanked put up two more to replace it! :D

Hire kids in the neighborhood who have nothing but time on their hands to help you. There is nothing that gives you a tingle of excitement than to sneak around with your signs in the middle of the night! It's more fun than cow tipping! :D

steph3n
11-03-2007, 01:55 PM
Get it on video and send it to all media, this is NOT LEGAL if it is on your property.

LibertyEagle
11-03-2007, 02:08 PM
I just love you guys. What a great group of people.

James R
11-03-2007, 02:41 PM
My Ron Paul signs have been disappearing, so of course I just keep putting them out. The Marshall told a neighbor that the signs are illegal and that he is the one who has been taking them down. Apparently you must have a permit to have a sign that can be seen from a hwy. He said that he would go after us if we put any more signs up. If it were a big city I wouldn't worry about it, but we stick out like a sore thumb here in our small community. It would be too easy to directly link us to the signs, so it appears that I have to stop putting up signs. I am very upset about this, any advise?

Yes, put a really large sign on your roof. This way while you research the legality of it they can't take the signs down.

runderwo
11-03-2007, 04:31 PM
I can't think of anywhere where it is legal to simply steal signs.

If they're sick and tired of it, they should charge you.

Then you fight the ticket in court citing the numerous case law where sign laws have been found to be unconstitutional.

The laws are unconstitutional. They know that when they put them on the books, they just know the average joe won't fight a $50 sign ticket. Don't be an average joe. Don't let them walk off with your signs, and don't roll over when they charge you. The ACLU as an organization may not be helpful but there are plenty of individual ACLU-affiliated lawyers around who will help you if you end up catching any real heat.

Bradley in DC
11-03-2007, 04:54 PM
I worked fund raising for the ACLU.

I doubt those guys will be of much help.

they were founded around the same idea of controlling us and our alternate help options.

I wont go into too much detail but I read alot about the founders and close friends of and projects they worked on and defended. Those guys are bad. If you contribute I would say stop.

They had me raising tons of money to stop the Military Commissions ACT and they didn't do crap about it. The real way is to elect Ron Paul not give them 86 million a year.\

needless to say I stayed working with them so I can tell people on the streets face to face about Ron Paul ;)
but I quit recently because I just couldnt trick people into paying the ACLU for nothing and their failed/false attempts at liberty.

On some issues I work happily with the ACLU, and some of their people are very good and effective here in DC. Internally, some of them even support the 2nd Amendment! Of course, on some issues (religious liberty, etc.), they're just terrible.

Austin
11-03-2007, 05:06 PM
1) Find out the full details of the law, and whether or not they have any real weight.
2) If all else fails, try to acquire a permit.

jgmaynard
11-03-2007, 05:18 PM
Are we talking public or private property? If it is private, I'm assuming they are being put up with the owners' OK...

JM

torchbearer
11-03-2007, 05:22 PM
1) Find out the full details of the law, and whether or not they have any real weight.
2) If all else fails, try to acquire a permit.

doesn't getting a permit imply that you need permission to post a sign?

fj45lvr
11-03-2007, 05:22 PM
need to work around the Horse shit and incorporate the message on things that are not "signs" like painting OBJECTS.

MsDoodahs
11-03-2007, 05:26 PM
Are we talking public or private property? If it is private, I'm assuming they are being put up with the owners' OK...

JM

Bit of a rant here...

If it is on PUBLIC property, then isn't the thread starter qualified as part of the PUBLIC? He is putting the signs on HIS part of that PUBLIC land.

If there is a law against THE PUBLIC using land that is PUBLIC then why the hell don't they just go ahead and call those lands GOVERNMENT OWNED AND CONTROLLED instead of perpetuating the MYTH that the land belongs to THE PUBLIC.

Grrrr.

jgmaynard
11-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Just tellin' ya how it works - most areas have laws against putting signs up on public property and in most areas the law is ignored around election time.
I think you may have a good argument about the way things should be, I'm just sayin' the way things are treated in most areas presently... :)

JM

fj45lvr
11-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Bit of a rant here...

If it is on PUBLIC property, then isn't the thread starter qualified as part of the PUBLIC? He is putting the signs on HIS part of that PUBLIC land.

If there is a law against THE PUBLIC using land that is PUBLIC then why the hell don't they just go ahead and call those lands GOVERNMENT OWNED AND CONTROLLED instead of perpetuating the MYTH that the land belongs to THE PUBLIC.

Grrrr.


They don't want the public lands littered with scores of signs (which happens in areas without regulations against such)....the public has to pay to throw it away and mow these places.

I agree that the "GOV" acts like they "own" the lands though.....it has become soooo bad that the agencies have tried to "charge" the public to use their own forests (completely illegal).

porcupine
11-03-2007, 05:37 PM
Contact the Institute for Justice. They helped a guy with a similar situation recently.

www.IJ.org

MsDoodahs
11-03-2007, 05:39 PM
Here in Texas, I have to make sure that any signage on my private property has a special label on it. If it is missing that label...:eek:

No signs are allowed on any right of way unless you clear it first with the state DOT where they maintain a list of every single inch of every single road in the entire state, complete with detailed records of exactly where, for each bit of each road, it is acceptable to place a sign.

Or at least that is what the DOT guy had the frikken nerve to tell me. :rolleyes:

Adamsa
11-03-2007, 05:48 PM
Well, if it isn't your property, you have to take the chances.

conner_condor
11-03-2007, 06:11 PM
Put a motion detector water sprinkler by the sign filled with dye...

Roxi
11-03-2007, 06:23 PM
put a sign in your yard that says "there was a ron paul sign here but it was stolen by the marshall"

:)

BillyDkid
11-03-2007, 06:59 PM
He just keeping us safe, you know, serving and protecting. That's what they're there for. You wouldn't want him wasting his time chasing rapists or muggers would you?

Hurricane Bruiser
11-03-2007, 07:40 PM
Well if signs promoting real estate and other events are allowed, and political signs are not (by the cidy code) then it would seem that the equal protection clause is being violated. I could see how the city might have the legal right to control right-of-ways but I don't see any legal right for them to control signs posted on private property.

Find the code, see what it says, and then go from there. Spend your time distributing flyers door to door instead of getting arrested, while you figure out the law IMO. Small town with a guy with a badge and a gun and an attitude is not a fun place to go against what is "legal".

JosephTheLibertarian
11-03-2007, 07:50 PM
My Ron Paul signs have been disappearing, so of course I just keep putting them out. The Marshall told a neighbor that the signs are illegal and that he is the one who has been taking them down. Apparently you must have a permit to have a sign that can be seen from a hwy. He said that he would go after us if we put any more signs up. If it were a big city I wouldn't worry about it, but we stick out like a sore thumb here in our small community. It would be too easy to directly link us to the signs, so it appears that I have to stop putting up signs. I am very upset about this, any advise?

I'd personally say.. go fuc yourself. If you step on my property, I'll blow your head off

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:05 PM
I'd personally say.. go fuc yourself. If you step on my property, I'll blow your head off

We've actually been wiring 2 X 8 signs to the gate at the entrance to our rural community. They are spray painted, ronpaul2008, ron paul revolution, etc., obviously homemade.

He's taken down 5 or 6 of them but we kept putting another one up just as soon as one came down. We thought it was some pissed off Romney supporter. We didn't find out until a few days ago that it was the marshall...

It's great though because only a few miles down the road, we have a series of 4 staked in signs on plywood that say, "Love Liberty? Hate Taxes? Want Peace? Ron Paul 2008" They are double sided so you can see it coming from both directions. They've been up for over a week, right on the edge of the highway because HAHA, it's out of his jurisdiction!!!:D

I imagine they've gotten at least 100,000 views by now....Woohoo!

bbachtung
11-03-2007, 08:16 PM
We've actually been wiring 2 X 8 signs to the gate at the entrance to our rural community. They are spray painted, ronpaul2008, ron paul revolution, etc., obviously homemade.

He's taken down 5 or 6 of them but we kept putting another one up just as soon as one came down. We thought it was some pissed off Romney supporter. We didn't find out until a few days ago that it was the marshall...

It's great though because only a few miles down the road, we have a series of 4 staked in signs on plywood that say, "Love Liberty? Hate Taxes? Want Peace? Ron Paul 2008" They are double sided so you can see it coming from both directions. They've been up for over a week, right on the edge of the highway because HAHA, it's out of his jurisdiction!!!:D

I imagine they've gotten at least 100,000 views by now....Woohoo!

Nice way to adapt your techniques . . .

BillyDkid
11-03-2007, 08:30 PM
I'd personally say.. go fuc yourself. If you step on my property, I'll blow your head offYou seem to think you live in America where people have property rights. Where you actually live is Amerika.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:35 PM
Have you considered looking into the requirements for getting a permit?

Yes, but I hate asking permission :D

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:36 PM
you need to be more specific about your location . did you get the sign code yet ?

What is the sign code? (Edit) nevermind... I got ya.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:37 PM
Get a copy of the code.

See if he's within the law or if he's doing creative interpretation.

Then come back here and we'll brainstorm ways to get your signs up.

I could just call the Marshall up and ask him ehh

parke
11-03-2007, 08:39 PM
My Ron Paul signs have been disappearing, so of course I just keep putting them out. The Marshall told a neighbor that the signs are illegal and that he is the one who has been taking them down. Apparently you must have a permit to have a sign that can be seen from a hwy. He said that he would go after us if we put any more signs up. If it were a big city I wouldn't worry about it, but we stick out like a sore thumb here in our small community. It would be too easy to directly link us to the signs, so it appears that I have to stop putting up signs. I am very upset about this, any advise?

Ive always had a habit of painting my name on things and I could give you a few pointers.

1. Make sure you dont have paint in the car that matches the signs.
2. If you arent caught in the act, its extremely hard to prove. (beware of cameras and things that seem to invite (i.e. bait) you to a location.
3. If you are caught, let them know that you have the support of thousands online. Think Chipin here..
4. If you know a cop thats a RP supporter, get his card and keep it in your wallet.

Lastly.. Cops always say they will do something. I remember having my car broken into.. and they told me they would call me. Then a year later I went to a police auction to find my things there.

Dont count on anyone in office doing a damn thing. Unless there is press there.. they just arent pressed unless people are getting hurt.

Regardless, What the hell are you doing besides being a person that supports a candidate? Ask them where the Rudy or Hitlary supporters are. They prey on fear. Dont forget that.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:39 PM
Thomas Paine, what city / town do you live in in Arizona?

What law has the Marshall cited re: your signs?

I helped BLS out with his issues in Minnesota, and am happy to do some research for you.

I have not been cited yet, but that could be arranged :p

I'll take up on the research work for sure, thanks!

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:44 PM
Is it against the law to stand on the side of the road and hold your sign where everyone can see it?? :D

Is it against the law to decorate your yard? :D

On the other hand, a person like me would probably make a whole dumpster full of "disposable" signs out of cardboard, store them in the basement or garage and then keep putting them out by the hundreds under cover of night! :D

For every sign that gets yanked put up two more to replace it! :D

Hire kids in the neighborhood who have nothing but time on their hands to help you. There is nothing that gives you a tingle of excitement than to sneak around with your signs in the middle of the night! It's more fun than cow tipping!:D

Cow Tipping and Ron Paul Signage, good stuff :)


Before I start any guerrilla tactics I want to know what I'm up against.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:45 PM
Get it on video and send it to all media, this is NOT LEGAL if it is on your property.

Not on my property. The signs are on public property.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:46 PM
I can't think of anywhere where it is legal to simply steal signs.

If they're sick and tired of it, they should charge you.

Then you fight the ticket in court citing the numerous case law where sign laws have been found to be unconstitutional.

The laws are unconstitutional. They know that when they put them on the books, they just know the average joe won't fight a $50 sign ticket. Don't be an average joe. Don't let them walk off with your signs, and don't roll over when they charge you. The ACLU as an organization may not be helpful but there are plenty of individual ACLU-affiliated lawyers around who will help you if you end up catching any real heat.

If the sign was on my property I would fight them to the death :D

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:48 PM
need to work around the Horse shit and incorporate the message on things that are not "signs" like painting OBJECTS.

you mean tagging cattle? :eek:

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:49 PM
Bit of a rant here...

If it is on PUBLIC property, then isn't the thread starter qualified as part of the PUBLIC? He is putting the signs on HIS part of that PUBLIC land.

If there is a law against THE PUBLIC using land that is PUBLIC then why the hell don't they just go ahead and call those lands GOVERNMENT OWNED AND CONTROLLED instead of perpetuating the MYTH that the land belongs to THE PUBLIC.

Grrrr.

Thank you MsDoodahs.

Sadly LOGIC and JUSTICE does not factor in with robo-cops.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:52 PM
Here in Texas, I have to make sure that any signage on my private property has a special label on it. If it is missing that label...:eek:

No signs are allowed on any right of way unless you clear it first with the state DOT where they maintain a list of every single inch of every single road in the entire state, complete with detailed records of exactly where, for each bit of each road, it is acceptable to place a sign.

Or at least that is what the DOT guy had the frikken nerve to tell me. :rolleyes:

DOT:

We are GOD

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:54 PM
He just keeping us safe, you know, serving and protecting. That's what they're there for. You wouldn't want him wasting his time chasing rapists or muggers would you?

My immediate reaction to hearing about the Marshall was, "why the heck does he care about this trivial crap, this guy has a chip on his shoulder and too much time on his hands."

ladyliberty
11-03-2007, 08:56 PM
Why not put up a few of those roadside memorials that you see on the roadways to commemorate a traffic fatality, except put "RIP US Constitution" etc. on it, along with ronpaul2008.com?

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 08:59 PM
put a sign in your yard that says "there was a ron paul sign here but it was stolen by the marshall"

:)

Or a RIP sign with the Marshal's name beneath :p

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 09:00 PM
You seem to think you live in America where people have property rights. Where you actually live is Amerika.

"All property is theft"

Bernard Shaw

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 09:02 PM
Ive always had a habit of painting my name on things and I could give you a few pointers.

1. Make sure you dont have paint in the car that matches the signs.
2. If you arent caught in the act, its extremely hard to prove. (beware of cameras and things that seem to invite (i.e. bait) you to a location.
3. If you are caught, let them know that you have the support of thousands online. Think Chipin here..
4. If you know a cop thats a RP supporter, get his card and keep it in your wallet.

Lastly.. Cops always say they will do something. I remember having my car broken into.. and they told me they would call me. Then a year later I went to a police auction to find my things there.

Dont count on anyone in office doing a damn thing. Unless there is press there.. they just arent pressed unless people are getting hurt.

Regardless, What the hell are you doing besides being a person that supports a candidate? Ask them where the Rudy or Hitlary supporters are. They prey on fear. Dont forget that.

Great advice, thank you :)

westmich4paul
11-03-2007, 09:21 PM
Thats what I am thinking instead as a retalitory measure. Just make sure you do it during extremely low traffic levels like the wee mornin hours!

porcupine
11-03-2007, 10:54 PM
Well if signs promoting real estate and other events are allowed, and political signs are not (by the cidy code) then it would seem that the equal protection clause is being violated. I could see how the city might have the legal right to control right-of-ways but I don't see any legal right for them to control signs posted on private property.

Find the code, see what it says, and then go from there. Spend your time distributing flyers door to door instead of getting arrested, while you figure out the law IMO. Small town with a guy with a badge and a gun and an attitude is not a fun place to go against what is "legal".

Like I said, earlier, a similar law was struck down by a judge when the Institute for Justice intervened on behalf of a guy being hassled for putting up a Ron Paul sign...that was just a few months ago. I think that after you do your research on what the code says, you should contact them.

rp4prez
11-03-2007, 11:00 PM
put them on your roof! hehe... i'd like to see him get them there! :)

Benaiah
11-03-2007, 11:06 PM
We should just coordinate a "paint the town Ron" day. We'll do it when the original poster is out of town or has some other good alibi. Hey OP, I think that Marshal's jurisdiction is city or county, right? Just put them up 50ft outside of his jurisdiction.

ronpaulhawaii
11-04-2007, 12:44 AM
...There is nothing that gives you a tingle of excitement than to sneak around with your signs in the middle of the night! It's more fun than cow tipping! :D


put a sign in your yard that says "there was a ron paul sign here but it was stolen by the marshall"

:)

LMAO - Thanks ladies - lol


I can't think of anywhere where it is legal to simply steal signs.

If they're sick and tired of it, they should charge you.

Then you fight the ticket in court citing the numerous case law where sign laws have been found to be unconstitutional.

The laws are unconstitutional. They know that when they put them on the books, they just know the average joe won't fight a $50 sign ticket. Don't be an average joe. Don't let them walk off with your signs, and don't roll over when they charge you. The ACLU as an organization may not be helpful but there are plenty of individual ACLU-affiliated lawyers around who will help you if you end up catching any real heat.

Yep, however, choosing your battles is a good strategy and if this is on "public" land... I'm not sure of the case-law, (and am not a lawyer, or a "cyclist" - lol)


Sidewalk Chalk - Thats what I am thinking instead as a retalitory measure. Just make sure you do it during extremely low traffic levels like the wee mornin hours!

This seems a great strategy. Then, send the guy a bucket and scrub brush for Christmas (anon. of course) and make a youtube from afar...


Just tellin' ya how it works - most areas have laws against putting signs up on public property and in most areas the law is ignored around election time.
I think you may have a good argument about the way things should be, I'm just sayin' the way things are treated in most areas presently... :)

JM

This goes back to Marbury vs. Madison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison

and Jurisdiction

http://books.google.com/books?id=jFE8AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA261&lpg=RA1-PA261&dq=repugnant+law+constitution&source=web&ots=DswLmn1mu8&sig=AHY2voWjEbexVFgVyPKJ9vIJdCo

and look what I just found, no time to read or put in an entry but a little Ron Paul reference might fit in here well

http://www.stanley2002.org/void.htm

busy, busy

m