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View Full Version : ABC News Blog: "Ron Paul's Gun Powder Plot" (November 5th)




brumans
11-03-2007, 12:31 PM
Not sure if this was posted here, I searched and couldn't find anything. Anyways, this is good coverage!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/ron-pauls-gunpo.html

Ron Paul's Gunpowder Plot


November 02, 2007 6:12 PM

ABC's Z. Byron Wolf Reports from South Carolina: It's sort of an odd allusion for a fundraising campaign in these days of hypersensitivity to terrorism, even if the Congressman it will benefit is running for president as a Libertarian Republican spoiler who wants to drastically change the way government runs in Washington.

But there was Ron Paul on the stump at Clemson in South Carolina telling a group of several hundred students and supporters, "Remember, remember the 5th of November."

In this case, he was referring to a fundraising drive and not a plot specifically to blow anything up. Maybe the apple cart.

The catchy slogan comes from a nursery rhyme about Guy Fawkes, the 17th Century crusader for Catholics rights caught in the basement of Parliament with 36 barrels of gunpowder. He failed in his mission to blow the place up.

Paul clarified at the rally that he is not involved in this particular fundraising effort.

But on their website with a call "for the largest one day political donation in history," Paul supporters want to ignite a monetary bomb of their own. They hope for 100,000 subscribers to raise $10 million bucks for Paul on that day. They have a ways to go over the weekend - the site lists 15,991 subscribers as of late Friday.

The Paul campaign has set an official goal of raising $12 million by the end of the year.

Perhaps it's a stretch, but if Parliament is anything like Congress, its an allegorical explosion in the place where Paul casts votes every day as a Republican Congressman from Texas.

The Guy Fawkes theme is not new in popular culture. But in recent years, allusions have seen the plot succeed -- or at least envisioned a boom.

It's the topic of the John Lennon song "Remember" from his Plastic Ono Band Album.

The end of the song goes like this: "If you ever feel so sad, And the whole world is driving you mad, Remember, remember today. Don't feel sorry, 'Bout the way it's gone, Don't you worry, 'Bout what you've done, Remember, remember the fifth of November. (Boom)"

The Guy Fawkes scenario is also the subject of the dystopic 2005 Big Brother-style fantasy thriller "V for Vendetta" in which a Guy Fawkes caped crusader succeeds in blowing up Parliament.

Syren123
11-03-2007, 12:36 PM
Lol!

The Good Doctor
11-03-2007, 12:36 PM
That doesn't seem negative. And the person who wrote the article "gets it". :D

brumans
11-03-2007, 12:37 PM
Yea, it's good except the first line

"even if the Congressman it will benefit is running for president as a Libertarian Republican spoiler"

mwkaufman
11-03-2007, 12:38 PM
This is a very positive posting. Hope for more of the same.

Jordan
11-03-2007, 12:38 PM
Just brings more people to the cause.

spivey378
11-03-2007, 12:43 PM
wow. great article. even we havent articulated it that well. lol



:P

Drknows
11-03-2007, 12:48 PM
Haha this is great they even gave thisnovember5th some linkage.

tmg19103
11-03-2007, 12:53 PM
If you do a little research into the time period, you will find that Catholics in England were persecuted in a manner not dissimilar to Jews in Germany in the late 1930's.

The Catholic religion was basically banned. Priests were driven underground and if you were caught practicing the Catholic religion you were either sent away to the dungeon or killed summarily.

Guy Fawkes was a Catholic who was fighting against religious persecution - just as those who first settled this country left England due to religious persecution and just as our constitution separates church and state so we don't have state sponsored religion and the ensuing persecution.

I had never heard of Guy Fawkes or this "V" movie before the 5th site came about, but with some research, it seems his motives were noble, though one can argue whether blowing up an oppressive royal family and their parliament was the proper way to go about things.

Ron Paul would say negotiate and talk, but RP would also agree that our own revolution against England, which boiled down to a violent war, was needed.

Thomas_Paine
11-03-2007, 12:56 PM
Yea, it's good except the first line

"even if the Congressman it will benefit is running for president as a Libertarian Republican spoiler"

When I read that all I heard was, Blah Blah Blah.

American
11-03-2007, 01:02 PM
Some really good comments on that article as well. BillydKid reply was good, I liked it.

KewlRonduderules
11-03-2007, 01:03 PM
Yeah, I have to admit it was fairly decent.

Thanks ABC!

kalami
11-03-2007, 01:04 PM
surprisingly evenhanded given all the implications of guy fawkes/5th of november

Drknows
11-03-2007, 01:05 PM
John Lennon "Remember"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmPuZoroRw

:D

Matt Collins
11-03-2007, 01:09 PM
Interesting. If we can pull this off it WILL make headlines!

speciallyblend
11-03-2007, 01:37 PM
Well this shows that even reporters can seperate fantasy from reality;)

MsDoodahs
11-03-2007, 01:39 PM
Not really...even a blind hog roots up an acorn now and then.

pcosmar
11-03-2007, 01:43 PM
Not really...even a blind hog roots up an acorn now and then.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

Naraku
11-03-2007, 02:00 PM
I think this is a good sign of how most people will view the November 5th drive as just a sort of poetic commentary on our state of government. Obviously the Paul skeptics will use it for other purposes, but I think most are going to go about it like this guy did.

filmmaker58
11-03-2007, 02:01 PM
If you read the comments after that article, there are some great ones (overwhelmingly in favor of Ron Paul). Very intelligent and obviously well researched. the only negative comments resorting to namecalling, and ignorance. This is really a lot of fun. There is no credible argument that can be made about Ron Paul without admitting that you are done with the constitution, and if that is the case, they are welcome to move abroad.

hells_unicorn
11-03-2007, 02:04 PM
I hope that every Catholic in America who came over from either England or Ireland (as my ancestors did) read up on Guy Fawkes if they haven't already, it will inspire them to donate, as it has me.

me3
11-03-2007, 02:05 PM
A lesson to be learned might be that everything we do, is what we make of it.

It's up to us to spin things positively and stay inspired. Not the MSM.

In fact, for such a large group of people who obsess about MSM bias, just as many of those people are quick to scan each article for validation of Dr. Paul's position, or retribution for inaccuracy.

Just gotta keep campaigning, hopefully offline. Make it happen, don't wait for someone to write that it is happening to you or that you don't matter.

TruckinMike
11-03-2007, 02:08 PM
Gee I wonder if we should have another Money Bomb?

TruckinMike

American
11-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Some really good comments on that article as well. BillydKid reply was good, I liked it.

Damn, the remark I commented on from billydkid is now gone. wtf is that about.

It was about the diversity of the supporters.

Flirple
11-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Great coverage!

NinjaPirate
11-03-2007, 03:11 PM
Gee I wonder if we should have another Money Bomb?

TruckinMike

Dec 16th! Boston Tea Party!

V4Vendetta
11-03-2007, 03:14 PM
LMFAO I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/Troyg19/poster_1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/Troyg19/1775vs2005.jpg

Danny Molina
11-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Excellent article. That's fair and balanced right there.

T206
11-03-2007, 03:23 PM
Looks like some people are leaving some pretty intentionally negative and just flat out incorrect comments.

dircha
11-03-2007, 03:34 PM
Our nation too was founded by a small group of ideologically motivated radicals who were willing to fight, to kill, and to die for the cause of intellectual, social, and economic liberty in the face of tyranny and oppression.

They too by modern standards were in some ways deeply flawed, and very much products of their time, with all that involved.

November 5th symbolizes this defiant, revolutionary spirit in the face of oppression, corruption, and tyranny that drives us still today as we now act through non-violent means to ignite a symbolic explosion of freedom across the bow of the political establishment to set the hearts and minds of the nation on fire with the cause of liberty.

And it is a symbol that can not be hijacked like the false patriotism of candidates like Giuliani, Thompson, and Clinton.

Remember, remember, the 5th of November!

runderwo
11-03-2007, 04:27 PM
I view November 5th in a different way. The neocons and socialists are trying to come in and demolish the foundations of the free world in different ways, and it is up to us to foil their conspiracy by pointing out their dirty little secrets (like catching Guy Fawkes in the act with the barrels of powder) and making sure Ron is elected in their place. Am I strange? ;)

Andrew76
11-03-2007, 04:33 PM
Not sure if this was posted here, I searched and couldn't find anything. Anyways, this is good coverage!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/ron-pauls-gunpo.html

Ron Paul's Gunpowder Plot


November 02, 2007 6:12 PM

ABC's Z. Byron Wolf Reports from South Carolina: It's sort of an odd allusion for a fundraising campaign in these days of hypersensitivity to terrorism, even if the Congressman it will benefit is running for president as a Libertarian Republican spoiler who wants to drastically change the way government runs in Washington.

But there was Ron Paul on the stump at Clemson in South Carolina telling a group of several hundred students and supporters, "Remember, remember the 5th of November."

In this case, he was referring to a fundraising drive and not a plot specifically to blow anything up. Maybe the apple cart.

The catchy slogan comes from a nursery rhyme about Guy Fawkes, the 17th Century crusader for Catholics rights caught in the basement of Parliament with 36 barrels of gunpowder. He failed in his mission to blow the place up.

Paul clarified at the rally that he is not involved in this particular fundraising effort.

But on their website with a call "for the largest one day political donation in history," Paul supporters want to ignite a monetary bomb of their own. They hope for 100,000 subscribers to raise $10 million bucks for Paul on that day. They have a ways to go over the weekend - the site lists 15,991 subscribers as of late Friday.

The Paul campaign has set an official goal of raising $12 million by the end of the year.

Perhaps it's a stretch, but if Parliament is anything like Congress, its an allegorical explosion in the place where Paul casts votes every day as a Republican Congressman from Texas.

The Guy Fawkes theme is not new in popular culture. But in recent years, allusions have seen the plot succeed -- or at least envisioned a boom.

It's the topic of the John Lennon song "Remember" from his Plastic Ono Band Album.

The end of the song goes like this: "If you ever feel so sad, And the whole world is driving you mad, Remember, remember today. Don't feel sorry, 'Bout the way it's gone, Don't you worry, 'Bout what you've done, Remember, remember the fifth of November. (Boom)"

The Guy Fawkes scenario is also the subject of the dystopic 2005 Big Brother-style fantasy thriller "V for Vendetta" in which a Guy Fawkes caped crusader succeeds in blowing up Parliament.

What's this?! A journalist who understands our allegorical imperatives?? Impossible. I thought this was supposed to blow up in our face, and we'd all be accused of supporting terrorist plots?

I told you so. ;)

Energy
11-03-2007, 04:42 PM
Excellent article. That's fair and balanced right there.

Exactly. How hard can it be to write unslanted like this (looking at you Joel Stein at Time)

terlinguatx
11-03-2007, 04:43 PM
I'm glad they threw in the term "monetary bomb" , whoever originated that here is very clever. I think any attention November 5th gets will create positive buzz that will help the campaign (financially and otherwise) more than it hurts it.

foofighter20x
11-03-2007, 05:51 PM
A broken clock is right twice a day.

Exactly. At those points, it's right, but it's right for the wrong reason.

Pride
11-03-2007, 06:23 PM
Nice little article :)

Nash
11-03-2007, 06:36 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while and I've decided that donating on the 5th is a good idea.

Not that I really have any control over it anyway. The consensus is that is the date to donate and frankly since it's out of any individual's hands at this point I may as well.

The worst case scenario is that it sends a message to washington, the press makes a big deal out of it (maybe positive, maybe negative) and it eventually blows over and the campaign makes a lot of money.

The best case scenario is basically the same thing and it doesn't blow over and people can't stop talking about Ron Paul.

I'll probably donate on the 11th as well but my previous concerns about the 5th I think are just that, concerns. It doesn't really matter at this point because any press is good press IMO. I encourage everyone who had reservations about donating on this day to do the same thing I'm doing and donate anyway.

wfd40
11-03-2007, 06:41 PM
The campaign needs to embrace this effort and send out a reminder/note/passionate letter from the DOC himself.

Not doing so would, in my opinion, be a tremendous blunder

Nash
11-03-2007, 06:44 PM
The campaign needs to embrace this effort and send out a reminder/note/passionate letter from the DOC himself.

Not doing so would, in my opinion, be a tremendous blunder

I'm not so sure about that one. There is a difference between grassroots supporting this and the official campaign itself. Plausible deniability is important. If it goes well RP can reap the benefits. If it's a PR problem he can just blame the grassroots and avoids almost all of the fallout. All the while the campaign collects.

foofighter20x
11-03-2007, 07:01 PM
What's this?! A journalist who understands our allegorical imperatives?? Impossible. I thought this was supposed to blow up in our face, and we'd all be accused of supporting terrorist plots?

I told you so. ;)


Last I checked, we still have yet to see of how this will be spun by Newsweek, US News & World Report, WP, NYT, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, NBC News, or CBS.

Methinks someone is jumping the gun.

Both Time and the LA Times have called us anarchists and nerds.

ABC just jabbed us by mentioning the "hypersensitivity to terrorism" although they then said there was no such plot.

In all, that's 1 news organization in your favor (and at a stretch at that) and 2 in mine.

Wishful thinking is a logical fallacy, but you just keep right on top of that. ;)

TheEvilDetector
11-03-2007, 07:05 PM
One of the comments from the site in the original link.


"Street Mugger: Give me your money or else!

Citizen: Yikes!

Mugger: Well....you don't have to give me all of it. Give me about 45% of it, and make it snappy!

Citizen: 45%?

Mugger: Yes...well, you see, I like to think of myself as benevolent. I'll take only 45%...for now. And I don't want it all for myself. I want to use most of it for "good" stuff. You know...charity work. I feel that I can do such things far better than you can. My landlord is sick and needs some medicine, and the postman's kid needs help funding for a community college class. Sure, I'm robbing you, but don't you feel better about it now?

Citizen: Well, I was going to use that money to buy something at the deli, and by so doing help provide jobs and a livelihood for the employees there, thus allowing them to buy medicine and schooling for themselves and for their children. Isn't that charitable? Wouldn't I be performing a moral good?

Mugger: Not from where I'm standing...and I'm the one holding the gun! Now, like I said...Cough it up!...OR ELSE!!!

(Thus endeth the moral lesson for the day.)

VOTE FOR RON PAUL!!!

Posted by: Brad | Nov 2, 2007 8:18:01 PM

"

Cindy
11-03-2007, 07:10 PM
Just brings more people to the cause.


Yup! I thought it was a cool article.

TheEvilDetector
11-03-2007, 08:11 PM
another good commen

"My fellow Americans just don't seem to care that our nation, along with The Constitution upon which it was founded, is being flushed-down the NWO toilet by our nations' bought and paid for politicians and media.

While the Oligarchs warn and insite fear in the sheeple about the prospect of terrorism, they at the same time leave our border wide open, and fund and conduct illegal wars overseas that do nothing but encite the terrorism which their Orwellian Laws like the Patriot Act and The Real ID Act pretend to protect us from.

Wake up America! It's not about protecting you from terrorism, or saving the planet from Global Warming, or any of that other fear-mongering garbage the sold-out, mainstream media feeds you 24/7. It's about feeding the bankers and the military industrial complex, and facilitating the ruling elite's ability to ratchet-down control over the American people, placing us into a total control grid where they can surveille, track and control everywhere we go and everything we do. It's the groundwork for totalitarianism, my friends. It's New World Order plan of Bush, Clinton, Giuliani, et.al., being executed quite beautifully.

You're a victim of mass mind control--a frog in a pot. In order to cook the frog, you don't throw him into a pot of boiling water. If you do, he'll resist and jump-out. What you do instead is, you turn the heat-up REAL SLOW, and by the time the water is boiling he won't be able to jump out anymore, because it's too late--he's already doomed.

Posted by: Mike | Nov 3, 2007 2:30:29 PM"

Revolution9
11-03-2007, 08:29 PM
Exactly. At those points, it's right, but it's right for the wrong reason.

You lose. We win. Try not to whine and stamp your feet about it.


Randy

Spirit of '76
11-03-2007, 08:34 PM
If you do a little research into the time period, you will find that Catholics in England were persecuted in a manner not dissimilar to Jews in Germany in the late 1930's.

The Catholic religion was basically banned. Priests were driven underground and if you were caught practicing the Catholic religion you were either sent away to the dungeon or killed summarily.



That is not true. Catholics were treated relatively benignly under James, relative to how Protestants had been burned to death and forced to flee the country under the reign of Bloody Mary just a few decades before. In fact, James was widely criticized for his toleration of Catholicism in light of the religious wars sweeping the continent at that time.

Of course, his tolerance was greatly harmed because of Fawkes, whose attempt at mass murder created blowback for Catholics throughout Britain.

lonestarguy
11-03-2007, 09:45 PM
The campaign needs to embrace this effort and send out a reminder/note/passionate letter from the DOC himself.

Not doing so would, in my opinion, be a tremendous blunder

Never fear, Austin, Tx, meetup message traffic indicated that all RP meetup members nationwide were receiving an email announcement alerting peeps to prepare to participate in the monetary festivities on the 5th of November. The fuse has been lit.....let 'er blow!

tmg19103
11-03-2007, 11:43 PM
That is not true. Catholics were treated relatively benignly under James, relative to how Protestants had been burned to death and forced to flee the country under the reign of Bloody Mary just a few decades before. In fact, James was widely criticized for his toleration of Catholicism in light of the religious wars sweeping the continent at that time.

Of course, his tolerance was greatly harmed because of Fawkes, whose attempt at mass murder created blowback for Catholics throughout Britain.


While he was known as a Catholic sympathiser while King of Scotland as King James the VI, when he became King of England in 1603 as King James I, political circumstances caused him to reverse this policy when he became King of England. He was, in fact, a bi-sexual (and rumored a pedophile) who enjoyed torturing people to painful deaths (as he did with Guy Fawkes) and who did persecute Catholics. Scholars view his ascendance to the thrown in 1603 of all of England, with its existing persecution of Catholics and ongoing war with Catholic Spain providing for a policy of continuing the persecution of Catholics by James, which only angered aristocratic Catholics and the likes of Fawkes who had assumed James would be benevolent towards Catholics once he became King of England.

"The Queen died in 1603 without leaving an eligible heir to the throne. Many hoped that Catholic sympathiser James VI, King of Scotland, who succeeded as James I, would now reverse the harsh policies towards them.

"However this was not to be the case, and James I continued the persecution of Catholics in England with new vigour."

http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/113C29BC42F49F188025702D004DD4B4

"When Elizabeth I of England died in 1603, she left behind a kingdom bitterly divided along religious lines. Under her guidance, the Anglican Church grew in power and closer to Protestantism. At the same time, Catholics were marginalized. When James VI of Scotland took the throne and became James I of England, most Catholics hoped he would bring a more tolerant religious attitude. They were quickly disappointed."

http://britishhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_gunpowder_plot

literatim
11-03-2007, 11:54 PM
Guy Fawkes Night is the celebration of the the foiling of the Gun Powder Plot. To celebrate, the people burn effigies of Guy Fawkes.