Is it time to remove the gloves on the GOP?????

[speciallyblend]

The GOP shouldnt worry about Dobson,they need to worry about RON PAUL and all his GOP supporters,we are not going to vote for rudolf/mccain/romney/thompson/huckabee. THE GOP BETTER LISTEN LOUD AND CLEAR,They need us and we will only vote for RON PAUL any other vote is a hillary vote for hillary on steroids.

Ron Paul has all the clout he needs. The GOP will lose the general election ,unless they nominate Ron Paul,the other republicans cant even use ron pauls platform,since they have cornered themselves into war mongering and big intrusive government policies .

ITS PRETTY PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

THE GOP IS DEAD IN A GENERAL ELECTION,unless the nominate RON PAUL,if not the election is over before it began for the gop,this is the message i relate to the gop. Tell the gop dont screw it up ,or they are hillary supporters. rudolf/mccain/thompson/romney/huckabee are just hillary clinton on steroids.:eek:


RON PAUL 2008 Donate DONATE and inform the GOP where your vote will not go;)

[angelatc]

We are hoping to win the GOP ticket. It is definitely not time to tell them to get lost.

It is time to get involved in your local GOP.

[Corydoras]

Ron Paul has all the clout he needs.

I don't agree. First, he needs to be firmly in the double digits in the (flawed) mainstream polls. Second, the party would need to be convinced that Ron Paul supporters would stay Republican if the Republican Party changed course-- and they do not understand yet that we mostly aren't crossover Democrats but we have a genuine beef with big government.

[speciallyblend]

We are hoping to win the GOP ticket. It is definitely not time to tell them to get lost.

It is time to get involved in your local GOP.

since they dont seem to act like they care about wining,im sorry i have no loyalty to the republicans.In my book they are scum like the democrats. either way both parties are gonna screw you look at your paycheck and bendover.

i think its a good leverage to show them reality,they dont seem to mind mocking Ron Paul and losing on their own,so showing them reality isnt going to hurt them.They are already planning on dumping on Ron Paul and losing the election.THE TRUTH HURTS and they better know this in the next 2 months or the GOP will have lost by mocking Ron Paul,im sorry im not gonna act like the gop arent liars. the gop is hillarys evil twin sister.

[nullvalu]

Yeah, remember, we're crabgrass to the GOP.

[schmeisser]

Most of the GOP primary voters vote like it is a popularity contest, not a contest of ideas. Keep whispering "Ron Paul" keep filling local GOP meetings with people who also whisper "Ron Paul", soon many of them will start whispering "Ron Paul" and before you know it you will reach a tipping point where these people just assume Ron Paul is the guy everyone else is voting for. The lemmings only want to vote for the person they think will be the ultimate winner.

[jasonhlasvegas2008]

We need to co-opt them. We need to attempt to co-opt them until the very end. The people who despise Ron Paul represent a small minority in my opinion, and they can easily be overcome. You must present the message as Ron Paul does, a Ron Paul nomination will strengthen the Republican Party, and the Republic itself.

I agree with the above poster, that many people view the presdential race as a popularity contest.

[speciallyblend]

I don't agree. First, he needs to be firmly in the double digits in the (flawed) mainstream polls. Second, the party would need to be convinced that Ron Paul supporters would stay Republican if the Republican Party changed course-- and they do not understand yet that we mostly aren't crossover Democrats but we have a genuine beef with big government.

i'm a registered republican along with my wife and if they dont nominate Ron Paul,i will enjoy watching the gop die,yes my 2 votes make that clout possible.

I WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE GOP ,unless RON PAUL IS THE NOMINEE thats clout baby

[American]

We need to focus on the American people, regardless of party. The message makes sense to anyone who will listen. I would still work on the GOP, we need the primaries.

[speciallyblend]

I don't agree. First, he needs to be firmly in the double digits in the (flawed) mainstream polls. Second, the party would need to be convinced that Ron Paul supporters would stay Republican if the Republican Party changed course-- and they do not understand yet that we mostly aren't crossover Democrats but we have a genuine beef with big government.

i'm a registered republican along with my wife and if they dont nominate Ron Paul,i will enjoy watching the gop die,yes my 2 votes make that clout possible.

I WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE GOP ,unless RON PAUL IS THE NOMINEE thats clout baby

[pcosmar]

I don't agree. First, he needs to be firmly in the double digits in the (flawed) mainstream polls. Second, the party would need to be convinced that Ron Paul supporters would stay Republican if the Republican Party changed course-- and they do not understand yet that we mostly aren't crossover Democrats but we have a genuine beef with big government.

So just how do we gain CONTROL over these "fixed" polls.
These polls are biased and not in any reality correct. So if we have to win these bogus polls, How?

[angelatc]

If we don't suceed in infiltrating and reassuming control of the GOP, we will be fighting them for years. They are powerful and rich. Our best bet is to remember that we are them also.

[speciallyblend]

We need to focus on the American people, regardless of party. The message makes sense to anyone who will listen. I would still work on the GOP, we need the primaries.

but in reality without Ron Paul they will lose,THIS IS A FACT,every swing voter i know is only voting for Ron Paul or they wont vote GOP. This isnt our fault and we need to explain the error in the GOP ways or they will have lost before it begun.RON PAUL is the GOP's only hope ,if they choose to ignore it or mock then i wont shed a tear for the gop as they lose.

[LibertyEagle]

Most of the GOP primary voters vote like it is a popularity contest, not a contest of ideas. Keep whispering "Ron Paul" keep filling local GOP meetings with people who also whisper "Ron Paul", soon many of them will start whispering "Ron Paul" and before you know it you will reach a tipping point where these people just assume Ron Paul is the guy everyone else is voting for. The lemmings only want to vote for the person they think will be the ultimate winner.

I agree with this. We have to get involved in the GOP. It is from within that we can change things. Sign up, attend the meetings, let them see us.

[jasonhlasvegas2008]

Also, my meetup group regularly holds meetings that are larger, more enthusiastic, and often more productive than the local GOP machine itself.

We don't need to take off the gloves. We just need to take over.

[pcosmar]

Also remember, the people that give you Rudy and Mitt are the same people that give you Hillary.

[speciallyblend]

If we don't suceed in infiltrating and reassuming control of the GOP, we will be fighting them for years. They are powerful and rich. Our best bet is to remember that we are them also.

we wont be fighting the gop they will lose,we will be fighting the democrats and we can remind the gop they can thank themselves for this. you have to understand i consider the gop and the democrats to be the thing flys land on.

I understand how to play the game,but if the gop doesnt play by the rules,then we need to let them know they will lose,if they refuse to listen to that,then so be it,ill enjoy watching them implode from within. I have no loyalty to scum and in my book both the dnc and gop are scum,yes i do my best to let the gop know about Ron Paul,but if they continue to mock Ron Paul,then they deserve exactly what they get

[LibertyEagle]

but in reality without Ron Paul they will lose,THIS IS A FACT,every swing voter i know is only voting for Ron Paul or they wont vote GOP. This isnt our fault and we need to explain the error in the GOP ways or they will have lost before it begun.RON PAUL is the GOP's only hope ,if they choose to ignore it or mock then i wont shed a tear for the gop as they lose.

Yes, but first we have to become Republicans and attend their meetings. When they see the support and understand we are real people, who aren't just what they've heard described on FOX news and start to understand what Ron stands for, it is then that we have the biggest chance to sway them. Ron's message isn't scary. It is the same very thing that all traditional conservatives used to believe. Some have just been propagandized for so long, they have forgotten.

[speciallyblend]

Also remember, the people that give you Rudy and Mitt are the same people that give you Hillary.

I'm with you on that.

i just think we need to hold these thick headed republicans accountable and let them know reality. Why? because reality bites:)

[speciallyblend]

Yes, but first we have to become Republicans and attend their meetings. When they see the support and understand we are real people, who aren't just what they've heard described on FOX news and start to understand what Ron stands for, it is then that we have the biggest chance to sway them. Ron's message isn't scary. It is the same very thing that all traditional conservatives used to believe. Some have just been propagandized for so long, they have forgotten.

i do hear you,the support is there and has been to every straw poll,I guess the GOP is truly DEAF,DUMB and BLIND. The support is already a reality 5% makes or breaks an election ,we are already a force to be reckoned with. they better see this in the next 30 days or the GOP can kiss my ass if they mock Ron Paul,which they are still doing after they know we have the support.

[thomj76]

In my opinion, we need to intelligently articulate the position of limited government and personal liberty. We have some good success with gently reminding republicans that they agree with Ron Paul on a majority of issues, especially in regard to the party platform.

Please remember this, at some point for closed primary states, registration closes, and in those areas, we need to focus on the registered republican base. If we alienate the base, it is less likely that they can be reached.

[speciallyblend]

My question is when then? because in 30-90 days this gop so called primary elections could possible be over do we wait until the last day ,when its already over ,or do HOLD OUR LINE like in Braveheart and let them know they lose without us;) ,when do we remove the gloves seriously? if we dont act soon,this gop could be dead before they/we even know it.

2 registered republicans over the gop antics

[schmeisser]

I think we need to pass out Dale Carnegie's book to some of our movement. If you start hammering on GOP members and voters, you will not accomplish the goal. We need tailor the message and tactics to the audience. I have a very easy time with most of these people - I AM THEM. I live next door to them, I work with them, my kids go to school with theirs. Gain some GOP cred by actually being part of them - do not go into meetings and claim you are only there to vote for RP and move on.

My usual conversation with republicans:

THEM: Following the 2008 race?
ME: Definitely

THEM: Whatcha think?
ME I'm thinking Ron Paul?

THEM: Really?
ME: Yup

THEM: Can he win it?
ME: Yep, think he's really gonna surprise.

THEM: I see a lot of signs and people.
ME: Gotta bring those folks into the fold for the local elections.

THEM: Yeah, never thought about that.
ME: Could be great - Ron Paul, talk to some folks, OK.

THEM: OK

[Brian Bailey]

I think we need to pass out Dale Carnegie's book to some of our movement. If you start hammering on GOP members and voters, you will not accomplish the goal. We need tailor the message and tactics to the audience. I have a very easy time with most of these people - I AM THEM. I live next door to them, I work with them, my kids go to school with theirs. Gain some GOP cred by actually being part of them - do not go into meetings and claim you are only there to vote for RP and move on.

My usual conversation with republicans:

THEM: Following the 2008 race?
ME: Definitely

THEM: Whatcha think?
ME I'm thinking Ron Paul?

THEM: Really?
ME: Yup

THEM: Can he win it?
ME: Yep, think he's really gonna surprise.

THEM: I see a lot of signs and people.
ME: Gotta bring those folks into the fold for the local elections.

THEM: Yeah, never thought about that.
ME: Could be great - Ron Paul, talk to some folks, OK.

THEM: OK

This is how you win support. Not by sending nasty emails to talk show hosts, etc.

[pcosmar]

The local GOP chair and leadership are adamantly opposed to Ron Paul, I have tried to speak with them. There is no reasoning with them. They are NOT reasonable.
I have written them off as a waste of time and am making converts without them.

[speciallyblend]

I think we need to pass out Dale Carnegie's book to some of our movement. If you start hammering on GOP members and voters, you will not accomplish the goal. We need tailor the message and tactics to the audience. I have a very easy time with most of these people - I AM THEM. I live next door to them, I work with them, my kids go to school with theirs. Gain some GOP cred by actually being part of them - do not go into meetings and claim you are only there to vote for RP and move on.

My usual conversation with republicans:

THEM: Following the 2008 race?
ME: Definitely

THEM: Whatcha think?
ME I'm thinking Ron Paul?

THEM: Really?
ME: Yup

THEM: Can he win it?
ME: Yep, think he's really gonna surprise.

THEM: I see a lot of signs and people.
ME: Gotta bring those folks into the fold for the local elections.

THEM: Yeah, never thought about that.
ME: Could be great - Ron Paul, talk to some folks, OK.

THEM: OK

I TOTALLY Agree,im just saying sooner or later,there has to be a tipping point,will it be after IA/NH/SC/NV maybe hold the line after those 4 if we do good and win,but the gop continues down the deaf,dumb and blind road,When do you think we would have to pull a Braveheart???????? i think possible after sc and nv if the gop continues there tricks,we cant wait till convention day.it's obvious we have to fight some in the gop,since they are fighting us now,if we ignore them,they will try to rip the RON PAUL supporters apart,so if they continue this mocking and attacking Ron Paul from within the gop,then we need to have sometype of plan from the grassroots level,im sure the HQ already has one,but we as grassroots supporters must have a plan.

[schmeisser]

The local GOP chair and leadership are adamantly opposed to Ron Paul, I have tried to speak with them. There is no reasoning with them. They are NOT reasonable.
I have written them off as a waste of time and am making converts without them.

You can't waste anymore time on these guys. I would work on their friends, family, and other members of the group. Once critical mass is reached around them, they will move over too. That's what I am talking about - they just want to be "king-makers".

Bottom line - for most of these people. issues do not even come into play. They just want to vote for who they think everyone else will vote for. Simple psychology at play.

My new motto:

Whisper Ron Paul

[speciallyblend]

The local GOP chair and leadership are adamantly opposed to Ron Paul, I have tried to speak with them. There is no reasoning with them. They are NOT reasonable.
I have written them off as a waste of time and am making converts without them.

I have friends that are republican that are voting for Ron Paul,but from my grassroots efforts here in the 3 counties.The gop will not and cannot win the general election ,unless they nominate Ron Paul.I'm registered republican and my wife is to. The real problem is even getting people registered republican.This state is a caucus state and i know we can get at least 65% support in my 3 counties for Ron Paul,but it boils down to delegates and if the republicans snub Ron Paul,even when they know a majority of voters would vote for Ron Paul in the general,then really what can you do? really? The hardest part is trying to get people to understand that if we get 10 people in each precinct then we can take over the gop since no one shows ,but people in my counties who are not republican or even if they are republican,dont trust the system and i cant force people off their asses. Like i said mention the word republican to most is like calling them the worst names in the book.. There is a serious perception problem for the gop,if they dont get that,then ooo brother.......

[TruckinMike]

I will never again vote for another "lessor of two evils". When children and pets misbehave what do you do. You punish.

In comes Hillery the punisher.

The question is... do you have the guts to let that happen. I do and I will.

TruckinMike

ps- have gun (and constitution), will travel!

[Snowfire]

As one of "them", I also agree with Schmeisser.


It's a little unsettling when unfamiliar faces start showing up at Republican meetings, stating one single-minded goal: to get their (unknown) candidate on the primary, and to heck with what anyone else has to say.

If you really want to make converts, explain how you wouldn't abandon the political process if Ron Paul doesn't make it.

If someone truly cared, they would continue the fight, to encourage other "traditional Republican" candidates to run on the State and Local level. Why do you think the GOP is the way it is now? Because no one stayed involved.




.

[speciallyblend]

As one of "them", I also agree with Schmeisser.


It's a little unsettling when unfamiliar faces start showing up at Republican meetings, stating one single-minded goal: to get their (unknown) candidate on the primary, and to heck with what anyone else has to say.

If you really want to make converts, explain how you wouldn't abandon the political process if Ron Paul doesn't make it.

If someone truly cared, they would continue the fight, to encourage other "traditional Republican" candidates to run on the State and Local level. Why do you think the GOP is the way it is now? Because no one stayed involved.

I wont abandon the the system just the republican party and im a republican. so be it,its not my fault the republican party has turned into big government loving intrusive government..

They or Them are sleeping and i guess they can wake up when they have elected their beloved democrats,what i dont think the republicans understand well at least in colorado.the democrats will win by default,unless we nominate Ron Paul.

.

I'm not abandoning the republican party,they are abandoning me. I'm just going to put my vote for Ron Paul or at least another party that truly believes in something other then big intrusive government. When do we HOLD the line as in BRAVEHEART;) When do we hold the gop feet to the fire? after NV?


If we the grassroots and HQ continues to put our head in the sand over our voting block power.then we will have allowed the gop to silence us within.... I hope to GOD Voters show up to the first 4 primarys,so they understand whats happening nationally,but we can only wait and see.


Our Fate is truly in the voters of IA/NH/SC/NV,if they fail us then the gop will have lost the national election..

[Bradley in DC]

Let's keep working on winning converts, the primary, the general and the rEVOLution.

[Valene]

Yeah, remember, we're crabgrass to the GOP.

New developments in organizing

by Fran Peavey

As we all dance in the hurricane winds of our times, Crabgrass struggles to find its way. Wherever there is trouble, one can find people working to witness and report, and then to move in ways to heal the wounds of our collective being.

A particularly striking phenomenon of the late 20th and early 21st centuries is the stupendous growth of nongovernmental organizations, often referred to as NGOs (also known as nonprofit organizations in the United States). People joining together to do the work of social change frequently organize themselves as NGOs. They see a task that must be done for the good of the society, form a group to figure out a strategy, and then work together to fund and do the work. The beauty of NGOs is that they allow like-minded people to get together to pursue social change goals. An individual without friends and allies is powerless to make social change.

In NGOs we find increasing numbers of socially creative people using their time, energy, and talent to make things different in our social and political spheres. While other creative talents - in the fine arts, performing arts, and literary arts - have long been recognized as creative, workers in the social sphere have not even been seen as possessing a related precious genius. Social creativity still has not been considered a talent on aptitude tests, and is often ignored when counselors advise people about jobs. Jane Adams, Mary McKillop, Rachel Carson, Karl Marx, and Thomas Jefferson, to name only a few, were among early identified socially creative people. They envisioned alternatives as well as ways to bring about the necessary changes. We need socially creative people now more than ever, as we learn how to implement positive change in our social environment, which is growing more and more rigid and self-interested. There is fiery discussion in the NGO world about careerism and people only doing the work because of the salary.

It is entirely possible that the social energy drawn to the development of NGOs in this stark time calls on the same social creativity that the labor union movement did in the 1920s and 30s. While this can be seen as a very positive development, one cannot help but wonder if such NGOs will become as calcified and hierarchical as the labor union movement has become today.

The end of the Cold War, as well as the growth of populations, seems to have led to an international perception that organizations outside of government are needed to make society work - indeed, to make governments work. We find that NGOs often act like pressure valves between the government and the people.

In many parts of the world, NGOs are, in fact, funded by the government, and consequently are often reluctant to criticize it. Governments often recognize that small, community-based organizations are more suited to carry out certain activities. While this has advantages, it also means that NGOs exist at the political whims of the party in power. There are large NGOs in many parts of the former Communist world that are, in fact, indistinguishable from government. Also in Australia, Europe and the United States many NGOs get government funding.

George Bush wants to fund the faith-based organizations (read churches) to do tasks such as work with homeless, rehabilitation, and other community tasks. Many NGOs are concerned about government funding of religious groups to support their services to the poor. How does it affect a church's freedom to criticize the state or city government when the food program, from which that church derives many benefits, is funded by a government agency? What will happen to the workers when funding is slashed? How does the community regroup to meet the need which may still exist?

Here in the United States, we file papers with the state and national government to get a 501c3 tax exemption. Individuals and foundations who give to NGOs benefit from a tax code that encourages philanthropy. This frustrates some tax conservatives who try to figure out how to stop the funding of liberal causes without hurting contributions to their own causes. It will be a cold day if the private funding of NGOs gets shut down; we must fight that development with all our might. It is important to remember that individual NGOs are not representative, but as an aggregate they have credibility.

A new development that challenges the future effectiveness of NGOs such as ours is that corporations in the United States and elsewhere have found that they too can create NGOs that appear to be independent. In fact these groups are composed of paid employees of the corporation whose purpose it is to create the impression that ordinary citizens support the corporation's goals in this area. For example, one such organization, called the Nuclear Energy Institute, is actually funded by the nuclear power industry. When industry mimics our community organizations you know we have been become a power to contend with. A plurality of voices and views is crucial to counter the heavy hand of multinational corporations colluding with and directing the government.

Often organizations tell us that while they accept money from the government or corporations, their strategy is determined by processes internal to the group. This may be true, but we should examine carefully the activities that the government requires of the group in order to release the funds. For instance, in Croatia we heard of an American organization that received money from a quasi-governmental organization. The group was required to give the names and addresses and contact numbers of the Croatian citizens that they were working with. Somewhat later someone from the CIA contacted those people and urged them to become informants for the CIA. An NGO, in order to maintain a moral position and be understood not to be an arm of any government, must never turn any contact information over to their funders. We have been heartened to hear of the large NGOs who stopped working in Iraq because they were being supervised by the American and British military.

In Italy we developed a new criteria for our work: wherever we work with people who are occupied, or in a position to be dominated by the United States, we make it clear that we are opposed to activities which might make it easier for occupation. For instance, we will encourage those activities in Kosova/o which will strengthen a group's resolve to become free of U.S. domination and money. Crabgrass feels one of our tasks is to develop connections with international NGOs, learn what we can from our colleagues around the world, and share that learning with our membership through this newsletter and the talks we give. The human fabric woven by NGOs and their connections worldwide is an important strategy.

In summary, we would have to say that riding the surf in the NGO ocean is exciting, sometimes even a little dangerous, and always challenging. We are called to constantly change in this world of change, to keep asking ourselves about our role relative to our community, our task, and our vision. No one is entirely clean when one's country is assembling an empire, but Crabgrass continues to work against violence and domination.

[wfd40]

Guys, hate to state the obvious...

But the GOP (or rather, the people that control both parties) have no intention of winning this election. That's why they are putting Rudy in the national race - imagine the kind of debates we'll have with Hilary vs. Rudy. Almost no real distinction between them - all discussion/debate will be limited to two rather neo-con/lib points of view... etc. And in doing so, the mindless masses will be conned even further into slowly, but surely taking this country towards fascism.

I mean, could it be any more obvious? There is no way in hell Rudy should even be in this race, let alone polling at the levels his is..

[tnvoter]

Yeah, be nice, they're going to be working for us soon. :)

[Corydoras]

So just how do we gain CONTROL over these "fixed" polls.
These polls are biased and not in any reality correct. So if we have to win these bogus polls, How?

If there were five times as many of us as we now have, this question would not arise. We have got to get more and more people. Simple as that.

[Corydoras]

I WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE GOP ,unless RON PAUL IS THE NOMINEE thats clout baby

OK, then don't, but what exactly were you imagining people should do?

[RonPaulStreetTeam]

just thought I would let you know the GOP is the same people in the Democratic party and they WANT to lose or they wouldn't of ruined their name so bad over the last administration.

Hillary in office is STILL them in office!!! ONE PARTY TWO NAMES SAME AGENDA

in order to take over our healthcare and tax the hell out of us they gotta have her in there for a while.
Patriot ACT, Military Commissions ACT and war will continue under her.


soooooo they could care less if they loose, it is the plan.

[pcosmar]

OK, then don't, but what exactly were you imagining people should do?

REVOLT

[pcosmar]

If there were five times as many of us as we now have, this question would not arise. We have got to get more and more people. Simple as that.

We allready have more people than are showing in the "polls".
The polls are
LUNTZED

[speciallyblend]

OK, then don't, but what exactly were you imagining people should do?

and not waste them on big government intrusive politicians Vote for a Libertarian Vote for a independent but voting for the lesser of 2 evils is why we continue to get screwed. if the republican party loses the general election they can only blame themselves,but if they want to blame me,then they better listen to me ,NOMINATE RON PAUL ,if not good riddens GOP i mean big government loving democrats in the republican party.

The wasted vote is continuing down this maddening road of lesser of 2 evils,If Ron Paul doesnt win in the republicans,then im sure he will run as 3rd party(no matter what HQ says) or at least further the RON PAUL MESSAGE by allowing the GOP to die,since its not the GOP anymore other then the name GOP,it has no substance anymore.

[speciallyblend]

just thought I would let you know the GOP is the same people in the Democratic party and they WANT to lose or they wouldn't of ruined their name so bad over the last administration.

Hillary in office is STILL them in office!!! ONE PARTY TWO NAMES SAME AGENDA

in order to take over our healthcare and tax the hell out of us they gotta have her in there for a while.
Patriot ACT, Military Commissions ACT and war will continue under her.


soooooo they could care less if they loose, it is the plan.

EXACTLY

[LibertyEagle]

just thought I would let you know the GOP is the same people in the Democratic party and they WANT to lose or they wouldn't of ruined their name so bad over the last administration.

Hillary in office is STILL them in office!!! ONE PARTY TWO NAMES SAME AGENDA

in order to take over our healthcare and tax the hell out of us they gotta have her in there for a while.
Patriot ACT, Military Commissions ACT and war will continue under her.


soooooo they could care less if they loose, it is the plan.

That may well be true at the very top echelon of the 2 parties, but it is not true with the rank-in-file. They are just like us. Americans who care about their country.