Let this be a lesson to those that insist on broadcasting their entire lives to the world.

[Anti Federalist]

That includes facebookers and you "well I don't care if government watches me, I've got nothing to hide" folks as well.

What you may think is perfectly OK, may in fact land you in prison.



Jury Sees Video Of Jessica Beagley, Alaska Mother, Forcing Hot Sauce Into 7-Year-Old Boy's Mouth

http://www.aol.com/2011/08/18/jessica-beagley-hot-sauce_n_930263.html?ir=Crime

ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Hot sauce is a dinner table option to some parents. But to prosecutors in Alaska, forcing it on a 7-year-old boy as punishment amounts to child abuse.

In a case that has drawn international attention, jurors on Wednesday watched video showing Jessica Beagley squirting hot sauce in the mouth of her adopted son. Her attorney said it was punishment for misbehaving at school and lying about it to his mother.

The video was originally aired on a "Dr. Phil" episode and caused a public uproar in Russia where the boy is from.

The footage, along with audio of the boy screaming as he's forced to stand in a cold shower, was shown as part of Beagley's trial Wednesday on misdemeanor child abuse charges.

Prosecutors say Beagley went beyond what would be considered reasonable parental discipline. Her lawyer, William Ingaldson, said she resorted to unconventional disciplinary methods because more traditional forms of punishment had not worked with the boy.

Beagley, along with her police officer husband, adopted the boy and his twin brother from a Russian orphanage after their parents abandoned them, Ingaldson said. The boys were taken there after Russian investigators found their family living in a shack, where the boys slept on shelves in an armoire, he said.

The couple "thought this was their chance to make a difference in kids' lives," the lawyer said. The couple also has four biological children.

Anchorage police were notified about the case after "Dr. Phil" viewers saw the footage, which was submitted as a nine-minute video for a November episode titled "Mommy Confessions." "Dr. Phil" is a talk show on self-improvement.

The video, made in October 2010, shows Beagley asking the boy what happens when he lies.

"I get hot sauce," the crying boy replies.

The video shows Beagley putting the hot sauce in the boy's mouth and telling him not to spit it out. When he admits to lying, she allows him to spit out the hot sauce.

She then explains to the child that he is going to get in a cold shower for lying about misbehavior at school: wriggling in his seat and sword-fighting with pencils.

The video did not show the child in the shower, but the boy's screams can be heard.

"Listen to your teacher," she says. "You are to do what you are told."

[fisharmor]

Her attorney said it was punishment for misbehaving at school and lying about it to his mother.

We want your children mindless and obeisant to the state, but we don't want you helping us do it.
In an odd way this makes sense: exert more control over your children than the system, and the system takes exception to it.

[denison]

yeah, we should definitely be able to force hot sauce down our children's throat without state interference.

/sarcasm

seriously though, if you can't force hot sauce down an adults throat or beat them to correct their behavior, for fear of being jailed for assault, why would it be ok to do it to some who is much weaker and defenseless?

[denison]

those boys are better off in russia.

[Aldanga]

The hot sauce sounds just like what happens when kids mouth off: soap in the mouth. I don't see what the big deal is unless he got burned.

[Acala]

Wow. There is nothing but ugly every which way you look in this case.

[JoshLowry]

yeah, we should definitely be able to force hot sauce down our children's throat without state interference.

seriously though, if you can't force hot sauce down an adults throat or beat them to correct their behavior, for fear of being jailed for assault, why would it be ok to do it to some who is much weaker and defenseless?

All sarcasm aside, can you link me to the video where a woman forces hot sauce down her son's throat?

This is what I saw:


The video shows Beagley putting the hot sauce in the boy's mouth and telling him not to spit it out. When he admits to lying, she allows him to spit out the hot sauce.

[Napoleon's Shadow]

The hot sauce sounds just like what happens when kids mouth off: soap in the mouth. I don't see what the big deal is unless he got burned.
Yeah, as long as it wasn't a danger to him (copious amounts of hot sauce can be sometimes though), I don't see the problem. If conventional methods of forcing a child to behave, then one must use unconventional methods, again as long as there is not danger.

[Anti Federalist]

yeah, we should definitely be able to force hot sauce down our children's throat without state interference.

/sarcasm

seriously though, if you can't force hot sauce down an adults throat or beat them to correct their behavior, for fear of being jailed for assault, why would it be ok to do it to some who is much weaker and defenseless?

I offer no comment on the effectiveness of hot sauce or the parent's actions, only to point out that obviously they saw nothing wrong with it, broadcast it the world and are now probably going to go to jail because of that.

"Vanity, definitely my favorite sin."

[dannno]

yeah, we should definitely be able to force hot sauce down our children's throat without state interference.

/sarcasm

seriously though, if you can't force hot sauce down an adults throat or beat them to correct their behavior, for fear of being jailed for assault, why would it be ok to do it to some who is much weaker and defenseless?

Meh, you can't keep another adult locked in their room or ground them either. Most people do that.

Hot sauce may be a little painful, but it doesn't cause injury and it is actually healthful.

Cold showers don't cause injury, either.

I don't know if I'd use those methods, personally, I guess it depends on what the kid was doing.

In school he was wriggling in his seat and sword fighting.. sounds like they need more outdoor time, but they're in Alaska..

[Son of Detroit]

He'll probably never like spicy food the rest of his life. Or cold pools.

[silverhandorder]

I don't think parents should be allowed to verbally or physically punish kids. But I do understand that most would not support this type of parenting. I do think though if the kid can not defend himself someone else should come to his defense.

However I think AF point was that broadcasting private life is not a good idea since we break a myriad of retarded laws everyday.

[flightlesskiwi]

just don't know what to say.

don't send your parenting videos to Dr. Phil??? (why would anyone make a parenting video, anyway? $$$?? "fame"???)

[WilliamC]

If you aren't careful then the world will hurt you, and if you are really careless you can kill yourself or someone else without intending to.

Children do need to be physically punished when they do things that are harmful to themselves or others. Not physically abused, but sometimes physical punishment focuses the attention like nothing else.

Those who don't understand this are setting their children up to be hurt later in life, because like I said, if you aren't careful, the world will hurt you.

[PeteinLA]

I love hot sauce. If my mom did that I would be like "thanks MOM"

[CaptainAmerica]

My grandfather who was a copper miner in the 1920s and a very strong hard working man during the "Great Depression" disciplined me with a leather belt, and jalapenos on the lips. I never ever disrespected him or talked back to him or my grandmother.He was the greatest role model in my entire lifetime and what he did was perfectly okay. I was copying what I heard on tv as a 5 year old sometimes saying cuss words when I didn't know what they meant. When I got raw jalapenos smothered on my mouth I would lay down with a cold wet towel over my mouth thinking "Thats the last time I talk back to Tata"

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think parents should be allowed to verbally or physically punish kids. But I do understand that most would not support this type of parenting. I do think though if the kid can not defend himself someone else should come to his defense.

However I think AF point was that broadcasting private life is not a good idea since we break a myriad of retarded laws everyday.

+rep for getting my point.

[CaptainAmerica]

+rep for getting my point.

I completely disagree. I was put in place with a leather belt,paddle, japaneo peppers and time out depending on how severe my bad behavior was. I turned out just fine.

[CaptainAmerica]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg2eBYOHbCE&feature=related

the government doesn't want Boys named Sue

[JoshLowry]

I completely disagree. I was put in place with a leather belt,paddle, japaneo peppers and time out depending on how severe my bad behavior was. I turned out just fine.

AF's point is that just because you think it's fine, it doesn't mean that the state will allow you to keep your kid.

[dannno]

He'll probably never like spicy food the rest of his life. Or cold pools.

Either that or he won't be able to get in the mood without one or the other.

[Anti Federalist]

AF's point is that just because you think it's fine, it doesn't mean that the state will allow you to keep your kid.

+rep for explaining my point, LoL.

I have no comment on the child rearing aspect of it.

Frankly, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Regardless, and again, the bigger point is that, in a fit of "Truman show" narcissism, these people plastered their private lives all over the media for 15 minutes of fame, and now will have their family ripped apart and somebody will probably end up going to jail.

People have not yet come to understand that we live in tyrannical times, the Sword of Damocles hangs over each and every one of our heads.

Instead of being smashed by the system over petty stunts like this, take a stand for freedom.

I'd go to jail for that.

[A Son of Liberty]

Khalid Sheik Mohammed says hello.

I don't agree with these parenting tactics, but it's kind of ironic for the state to make an issue of it.

[CaptainAmerica]

AF's point is that just because you think it's fine, it doesn't mean that the state will allow you to keep your kid.

Understood. The government would love to be in control of children like the UK parliament has control over the uk children.Spanking is outlawed in the U.K.

[amyre]

While I TOTALLY (really, really, really) disagree with this type of parenting, it is sad and unfortunate that these kids will probably end up in an even worse situation within the foster care system. The parents were stupid on so many levels.....and once again, the innocent party will pay the greatest price.

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't agree with these parenting tactics, but it's kind of ironic for the state to make an issue of it.

I don't know the background of why the boy was in trouble with the public school as a basis of argument therefore I cannot say much about the tactics of punishing the boy for lying. When I was a kid I use to lie to my mom about misbehaving in school because I was constantly having to defend myself by fist fighting. My mom got very angry with me but thankfully my father knew it wasn't my fault and told me never to let a person bully me or punch me even if the teacher told me to.

[CaptainAmerica]

While I TOTALLY (really, really, really) disagree with this type of parenting, it is sad and unfortunate that these kids will probably end up in an even worse situation within the foster care system. The parents were stupid on so many levels.....and once again, the innocent party will pay the greatest price.

I really don't see how chili in the mouth is bad. If I talked back to my grandfather I got chili in the mouth sometimes, if I was really bad I got the belt. If I behaved he sometimes rewarded me and arm wrestled me everyday after I finished eating my food that my grandmother cooked. I don't see anything wrong with chili peppers in the mouth.Maybe the u.s. has forgotten its real roots and how tough and rough americans use to be. I have been slapped in the face for talking back to my mom when I was younger, and she is the most gentle and loving person around. I think the u.s. is so use to spoiling the children that it blinds them from disciplining their kids into humbleness because of fear of being labeled a "bad parent".

[amyre]

I really don't see how chili in the mouth is bad. If I talked back to my grandfather I got chili in the mouth sometimes, if I was really bad I got the belt. If I behaved he sometimes rewarded me and arm wrestled me everyday after I finished eating my food that my grandmother cooked. I don't see anything wrong with chili peppers in the mouth.Maybe the u.s. has forgotten its real roots and how tough and rough americans use to be. I have been slapped in the face for talking back to my mom when I was younger, and she is the most gentle and loving person around. I think the u.s. is so use to spoiling the children that it blinds them from disciplining their kids into humbleness because of fear of being labeled a "bad parent".

^^That is probably a debate for a different thread. The bottom line is that government has a track record of making situations worse, not better, and these kids are likely to have been better off if their parents wouldn't have made such poor parenting and broadcasting choices.

[DamianTV]

It isnt just the Government that makes things worse, Broadcasting ones life also seems to bring out the worst in people as well. Does anyone think those idiots on Jersey Shore or any of those Reality TV shows would actually act that way? I think they are trying to capitalize on sensationalizing behavior involving mundane situations. Thus, I dont think that the Lack of Privacy would have stopped many many cases of Real Child Abuse, not just Hot Sauce in the Mouth Child Abuse, and could be inspiring those who know they have no chance of being the best parent into being the worst possible parents.

[asurfaholic]

I don't think parents should be allowed to verbally or physically punish kids. But I do understand that most would not support this type of parenting. I do think though if the kid can not defend himself someone else should come to his defense.


So, using your ideals, if you see me spanking my daughter hard on the butt - you would feel justified in coming to her defense? Maybe not directely, but indirectly (reporting it to school officials, etc)? Then the whole issue gets blown out of proportion because someone reported child abuse, the parent gets victimized by an out of control system of bureaucracy, and the child loses the lesson of disipline, because instead of them learning right from wrong, they learn that mommy and daddy aren't really in control of them.

I was abused as a young child. Physical abuse, hard abuse, believe me, its a tough spot to be in. But if I had to go back and choose an upbringing that either gave me a drunk stepdad who never let me step out of line, or a couple of "buddys" who let me do things my own way the whole way, Id definitely choose to get the abuse again.

And as a parent-to-be, I would never want to hurt my baby. But the day that I feel she needs to be disiplined, it will be MY choice and my responsibility to do it the way I feel would have the most effect. I will leave a mark if she disrespects her mother when she is old enough to know what it means.

[CaptainAmerica]

^^That is probably a debate for a different thread. The bottom line is that government has a track record of making situations worse, not better, and these kids are likely to have been better off if their parents wouldn't have made such poor parenting and broadcasting choices.

My honest opinion is that it sounds hilarious that the kid had to take cold showers and hot chili in the mouth.I look back and laugh at how I got chili on the mouth. It really did work just like a bar of soap worked. Its also pathetic that the government takes children away from their parents at the drop of a pin.

[CaptainAmerica]

So, using your ideals, if you see me spanking my daughter hard on the butt - you would feel justified in coming to her defense? Maybe not directely, but indirectly (reporting it to school officials, etc)? Then the whole issue gets blown out of proportion because someone reported child abuse, the parent gets victimized by an out of control system of bureaucracy, and the child loses the lesson of disipline, because instead of them learning right from wrong, they learn that mommy and daddy aren't really in control of them.

I was abused as a young child. Physical abuse, hard abuse, believe me, its a tough spot to be in. But if I had to go back and choose an upbringing that either gave me a drunk stepdad who never let me step out of line, or a couple of "buddys" who let me do things my own way the whole way, Id definitely choose to get the abuse again.

And as a parent-to-be, I would never want to hurt my baby. But the day that I feel she needs to be disiplined, it will be MY choice and my responsibility to do it the way I feel would have the most effect. I will leave a mark if she disrespects her mother when she is old enough to know what it means.

When I see children who scream and yell at their parents,hit their brothers and sisters ,run around the stores grabbing stuff and talking disrespectfully to adults and strangers I say to myself "those kids have some stupid parents" and I am thankful that I was raised with a grandfather who actually survived through the Great Depression in Arizona of all places...he hopped a train every day to find work in the 1930s depression.I have yet to meet any person like my grandfather with his ability to discipline and be a good role model. He knew how to stare a person down and show anger but he never hurt me as a child.When my mom use to try to discipline me I laughed it off...then came the grandfather or dad and Id run and hide cause I knew how bad I was. Its true that kids without spankings become spoiled and they don't learn the meaning of honor your father and mother.Honor is something that has been lost in a modern society in almost every front.Ron Paul actually reminds me of my grandfather interestingly he has the angry face ability.

[Rael]

The fact that you turned out fine does not make what he did right. We don't use physical violence to solve problems with other adults, no reason to do so with children either.

[JoshLowry]

nvm

[Lafayette]

My Grandfather (by marriage) on my moms side was Indonesian, when i was little i used to pick my nose and put it in my mouth.
Hey i was 6 years old :)
When he caught me doing it he would put this hot sauce imported from Indonesian into my mouth. That stuff was hotter than anything you'd buy in the supermarket.
I learned that lesson real quick.

[CaptainAmerica]

The fact that you turned out fine does not make what he did right. We don't use physical violence to solve problems with other adults, no reason to do so with children either.

What he did was right. "we don't use physical violence to solve problems" is the propaganda you learned from public school teachers.There is a difference between sadism and discipline.

[CaptainAmerica]

My Grandfather (by marriage) on my moms side was Indonesian, when i was little i used to pick my nose and put it in my mouth.
Hey i was 6 years old :)
When he caught me doing it he would put this hot sauce imported from Indonesian into my mouth. That stuff was hotter than anything you'd buy in the supermarket.
I learned that lesson real quick.
Haha I bet it was that hot mustard stuff.

[Anti Federalist]

nvm

C'mon...I would have liked to have heard that.

[The One]

Either that or he won't be able to get in the mood without one or the other.


Bwahahaha!!!! That's the funniest thing I've seen all day...can't believe nobody else commented. I guess they didn't see the subtle beauty/genius of the comment.

[asurfaholic]

The fact that you turned out fine does not make what he did right. We don't use physical violence to solve problems with other adults, no reason to do so with children either.

Physical violence is extreme. I don't advocate beating kids senseless. A heavy hand however is sometimes necessary to teach consequences. If you don't feel that way, then so be it. It strikes me as anti-liberty to see that someone wants to control how I disipline my children. I think its sad to find there are people here who feel that way. This is a personal responsibility issue. As long as there is not extreme pain or extended consequences that go beyond how a reasonable person would disipline their children, then no crime has been committed.

The op case may be borderline, but to think that its ok to go rounding people up and putting them in jail because they deal with life different is really outrageous.

[lucky_bg]

yeah, we should definitely be able to force hot sauce down our children's throat without state interference.

/sarcasm

seriously though, if you can't force hot sauce down an adults throat or beat them to correct their behavior, for fear of being jailed for assault, why would it be ok to do it to some who is much weaker and defenseless?

+rep

[CaptainAmerica]

Physical violence is extreme. I don't advocate beating kids senseless. A heavy hand however is sometimes necessary to teach consequences. If you don't feel that way, then so be it. It strikes me as anti-liberty to see that someone wants to control how I disipline my children. I think its sad to find there are people here who feel that way. This is a personal responsibility issue. As long as there is not extreme pain or extended consequences that go beyond how a reasonable person would disipline their children, then no crime has been committed.

The op case may be borderline, but to think that its ok to go rounding people up and putting them in jail because they deal with life different is really outrageous.

Government always says "Do it for the children" . Here in Arizona we got a "temporary" tax raise because they said public school needed the money. Instead of cutting spending and redirecting taxes from welfare housing into public school they twisted our arms and the majority voted to raise taxes "temporarily"...well I have yet to see the tax rates go back down. Government will always say "In the name of the children" but what they really mean is "I'm extorting you for money,power and political leverage." I'd love to see "solving problems" works with adults who have violent tantrums ...cause talk certainly doesn't work lol.

[lucky_bg]

I completely disagree. I was put in place with a leather belt,paddle, japaneo peppers and time out depending on how severe my bad behavior was. I turned out just fine.

Man, you are red... ;)

[affa]

Someone can get shot in the stomach as a kid and turn out fine, or even better than if they had not -- that any one of you 'turned out fine' is not logical validation of a given practice. I would never lay a hand on a child, and the hot sauce thing sounds horrific (mind you, i'm allergic to hot sauce and this form of 'discipline' would have put me in the hospital).

You can raise a child right -- to be polite, moral, strong, with integrity -- without ever harming them. It's just more difficult than using various forms of violence since you actually have to not only sit them down and talk to them, explaining why something is wrong, but do so persuasively enough to actually convince them. You know, parent them. Violence is often used as a short cut -- don't do this because it will cause you pain, rather than don't do this because you are disrespecting someone's property, for example. In my opinion, in most cases, responding with violence teaches a kid not to get caught. Some of the worst moments seared in my brain are when my father raised his hands against me -- even now, decades later, I still think he was absolutely out of line. He did, however, make me a better person for it... I learned young I would never perpetrate that shit on my own children.

On topic -- keep your life private. It's hard to defend the liberty of the strong (parent) to inflict any sort of pain on the weak (child) -- it's a serious issue and there is no easy answer, since most think they 'know' how to parent. And there are always the extreme cases where most everyone agrees someone needs to step in (for example, locking a child in a closet for a week); but once you draw that line, the line can move with public opinion or statist greed.

Mind you, I'd let my kids climb trees or do all sorts of other things now frowned upon. We live in a ridiculous culture right now.

[Rael]

What he did was right. "we don't use physical violence to solve problems" is the propaganda you learned from public school teachers.There is a difference between sadism and discipline.

People punish children physically because they don't have the patience or intelligence to do it any other way.

[Wesker1982]

People had the same stupid excuses for abusing their wives.

Stop child abuse.

"My daddy used violence on my momma! She turned out fine!!"

:rolleyes:

[enjerth]

People punish children physically because they don't have the patience or intelligence to do it any other way.

You can't always reason with a toddler.

People who condemn physical punishment for children do so because they don't have the patience or the intelligence to understand that there are right times to do it exactly that way.

I can't remember the last time I actually spanked either of my girls (3 and 5), but every time I have one of my firearms and they're around and curious, I remind them that they will get a big spanking if they ever touch one of them. And I will do it.

There are times to employ patience and dialog in parenting, and there are times for (moderate, tempered) violence.

[heavenlyboy34]

My honest opinion is that it sounds hilarious that the kid had to take cold showers and hot chili in the mouth.I look back and laugh at how I got chili on the mouth. It really did work just like a bar of soap worked. Its also pathetic that the government takes children away from their parents at the drop of a pin.

Yep. That sort of punishment is way nicer than what I got. I would've loved to get off that easy.

[Luciconsort]

I used to get Tabasco in my mouth for swearing... I lived. I now cuss like a sailor, and love Tabasco sauce. Thanx Mom :)

[CaptainAmerica]

Someone can get shot in the stomach as a kid and turn out fine, or even better than if they had not -- that any one of you 'turned out fine' is not logical validation of a given practice. I would never lay a hand on a child, and the hot sauce thing sounds horrific (mind you, i'm allergic to hot sauce and this form of 'discipline' would have put me in the hospital).

You can raise a child right -- to be polite, moral, strong, with integrity -- without ever harming them. It's just more difficult than using various forms of violence since you actually have to not only sit them down and talk to them, explaining why something is wrong, but do so persuasively enough to actually convince them. You know, parent them. Violence is often used as a short cut -- don't do this because it will cause you pain, rather than don't do this because you are disrespecting someone's property, for example. In my opinion, in most cases, responding with violence teaches a kid not to get caught. Some of the worst moments seared in my brain are when my father raised his hands against me -- even now, decades later, I still think he was absolutely out of line. He did, however, make me a better person for it... I learned young I would never perpetrate that shit on my own children.

On topic -- keep your life private. It's hard to defend the liberty of the strong (parent) to inflict any sort of pain on the weak (child) -- it's a serious issue and there is no easy answer, since most think they 'know' how to parent. And there are always the extreme cases where most everyone agrees someone needs to step in (for example, locking a child in a closet for a week); but once you draw that line, the line can move with public opinion or statist greed.

Mind you, I'd let my kids climb trees or do all sorts of other things now frowned upon. We live in a ridiculous culture right now.
I will refrain from commenting about you.

[CaptainAmerica]

People punish children physically because they don't have the patience or intelligence to do it any other way.

Thank you doctor Phil. Patience and intelligence have nothing to do with it Rael. Believe me if you were my mother and I was 5 years old I would have laughed at you until I got swatted.

[CaptainAmerica]

You can't always reason with a toddler.

People who condemn physical punishment for children do so because they don't have the patience or the intelligence to understand that there are right times to do it exactly that way.

I can't remember the last time I actually spanked either of my girls (3 and 5), but every time I have one of my firearms and they're around and curious, I remind them that they will get a big spanking if they ever touch one of them. And I will do it.

There are times to employ patience and dialog in parenting, and there are times for (moderate, tempered) violence.

We live in an era where people treat children as if they were adults. Its rather ironic considering the fact that children now rarely learn to climb trees before they are playing on their mothers smart phone dialing booty calls and being told how cute they are for it.

[Brian4Liberty]

Khalid Sheik Mohammed says hello.

I don't agree with these parenting tactics, but it's kind of ironic for the state to make an issue of it.

Yeah, the government that tortures people, shoots dogs and tazes children wants to tell you how to discipline your children. :rolleyes:

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah, the government that tortures people, shoots dogs and tazes children wants to tell you how to discipline your children. :rolleyes:

LoL - Pot, meet kettle: kettle, pot.

[brushfire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktzt096mlxs

[heavenlyboy34]

LoL - Pot, meet kettle: kettle, pot.
lol, +1

[fisharmor]

Bwahahaha!!!! That's the funniest thing I've seen all day...can't believe nobody else commented. I guess they didn't see the subtle beauty/genius of the comment.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dannno again.

I LOLed

[fisharmor]

We live in an era where people treat children as if they were adults.

I'm having quite a lot of luck with treating my children like adults.
When they do something wrong, I reason with them.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I'm raising them to think that the first thing you do with someone who you have a problem with is talk.

That said, I do hit them. When they hit me or my wife first.
I don't spank, either. She slaps me in the face, she's getting slapped in the face.
She pulls my hair, she's getting her hair pulled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_ad_bellum
Just cause,
Proper authority,
Right intention,
Reasonable prospect of success,
Proportionality,
Last resort.

[Rael]

You can't always reason with a toddler.

People who condemn physical punishment for children do so because they don't have the patience or the intelligence to understand that there are right times to do it exactly that way.

I can't remember the last time I actually spanked either of my girls (3 and 5), but every time I have one of my firearms and they're around and curious, I remind them that they will get a big spanking if they ever touch one of them. And I will do it.

There are times to employ patience and dialog in parenting, and there are times for (moderate, tempered) violence.

I'll concede there may be times when physical interaction may be better than the alternative in the case of toddlers-for example, if the only way to stop a child from touching a hot stove was to pop them, or the only way to stop a child from running into the road is to knock them down. However, these are extraordinary situations, and preventable. Having to get physical in these situations still indicates a failure on the part of the parent, as the child should be kept out of those situations to begin with.

If you have to spank your child because they touch one of your guns, it might be necessary to prevent them from shooting themselves, but you still failed as a parent, because you could have kept them from getting access to the gun, and your failure to do so put you in a position where physical punishment was the only alternative.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

But if he continued to misbehave in school, she would go to trial, anyway. Catch 22!

[BlackTerrel]

That includes facebookers and you "well I don't care if government watches me, I've got nothing to hide" folks as well.

What you may think is perfectly OK, may in fact land you in prison.

I think the lesson is don't post stuff which some people may perceive as child abuse.


I offer no comment on the effectiveness of hot sauce or the parent's actions, only to point out that obviously they saw nothing wrong with it, broadcast it the world and are now probably going to go to jail because of that.

Why did they broadcast it to the world to begin with? "And here is our adopted son drinking hot sauce"...

[BlackTerrel]

I don't think parents should be allowed to verbally or physically punish kids. But I do understand that most would not support this type of parenting. I do think though if the kid can not defend himself someone else should come to his defense.

However I think AF point was that broadcasting private life is not a good idea since we break a myriad of retarded laws everyday.

I don't think it's a huge secret in 2011 to keep an eye on what you make public. When I was in college one of our friends passed out drunk and we drew a huge cock on his forehead and posed next to him. Some people put it on myspace. When I graduated I made sure it wasn't public - I also wouldn't send that pic to dr. phil.

[Anti Federalist]

I think the lesson is don't post stuff which some people may perceive as child abuse.

Which has in the past, included bare bottom pictures of your own children, where people have been arrested and investigated for kiddie porn by snooping photo developers.

That's my point. What you perceive to wrong, may be totally different than what I perceive to be wrong.


Why did they broadcast it to the world to begin with? "And here is our adopted son drinking hot sauce"...

For 15 minutes of cheap fame on the Dr. Phil show.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think it's a huge secret in 2011 to keep an eye on what you make public. When I was in college one of our friends passed out drunk and we drew a huge cock on his forehead and posed next to him. Some people put it on myspace. When I graduated I made sure it wasn't public - I also wouldn't send that pic to dr. phil.

Well, it must be some huge secret to some of these clowns out there that put their whole life on public display.

[BlackTerrel]

Well, it must be some huge secret to some of these clowns out there that put their whole life on public display.

True. I actually see it a lot.

[PaulConventionWV]

yeah, we should definitely be able to force hot sauce down our children's throat without state interference.

/sarcasm

seriously though, if you can't force hot sauce down an adults throat or beat them to correct their behavior, for fear of being jailed for assault, why would it be ok to do it to some who is much weaker and defenseless?

If this non-issue can convince you that state interference is necessary, then I don't know what you're doing here.

[angelatc]

AF's point is that just because you think it's fine, it doesn't mean that the state will allow you to keep your kid.

Exactly - just because a majority of us support the right to raise your child as you see fit doesn't mean the government won't take them away.

[angelatc]

Why did they broadcast it to the world to begin with? "And here is our adopted son drinking hot sauce"...

Now that you mention it, why did they film it?

[angelatc]

You can't always reason with a toddler.

.

People that don't have kids are always total experts in child rearing. It's the damndest thing.

[DamianTV]

You dont have to be an expert to understand that most forms of punishment (not just with kids) are a way for someone to take out their frustrations on the person being punished, or to profit from it financially, as the government does when "punishing" pot users with fines.

[BlackTerrel]

Now that you mention it, why did they film it?

No clue.

[Anti Federalist]

No clue.

I answered you, BT, in post #63.

It was for 15 minutes of cheap fame on the Dr. Phil show.


The video was originally aired on a "Dr. Phil" episode and caused a public uproar in Russia where the boy is from.

From the OP.

[fisharmor]

If you have to spank your child because they touch one of your guns, it might be necessary to prevent them from shooting themselves, but you still failed as a parent, because you could have kept them from getting access to the gun, and your failure to do so put you in a position where physical punishment was the only alternative.

My children can get to my guns.
There has never been a lock under the kitchen sink or the bathroom sink.
Nor has there ever been a lock on the toolbox.
They can both get to sharp scissors, and the older one can get to Ginsu knives.
There's also wine and spirits within their reach.

Amazingly, they're not spending their days drunk, fingerless, and shooting hollow points through each others' eyes.
You don't need to bubble-wrap your house, and you don't need to hit them to keep them out of these things.
All you need is a little vigilance, and to take an interest in what they're doing the other 95% of the time, too.

[BlackTerrel]

I answered you, BT, in post #63.

It was for 15 minutes of cheap fame on the Dr. Phil show.

Ok I guess that makes sense.


The video was originally aired on a "Dr. Phil" episode and caused a public uproar in Russia where the boy is from.

Punishing them may have been our way of appeasing the Russians then?

[DamianTV]

I came across a good quotable line a few minutes ago, thought this would be worth while sharing.

When Everything You've Ever Said Can & Will Be Used Against You By Anyone... Forever
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110809/03313015446/when-everything-youve-ever-said-can-will-be-used-against-you-anyone-forever.shtml

Tech Article, but if youre interested, hit the link. I didnt bother with copying and pasting because I know some of the Tech Stuff bores some of the people around here.

[jonhowe]

I was copying what I heard on tv as a 5 year old sometimes saying cuss words when I didn't know what they meant.

Sorry, but your grandfather was a sick person if this is true. Using a word without knowing its meaning is NOT a reason for punishment, but for correction and education. If your grandfather (or anyone else) is/was too thick to understand this, that's just sad.

[Rothbardian Girl]

Sorry, but your grandfather was a sick person if this is true. Using a word without knowing its meaning is NOT a reason for punishment, but for correction and education. If your grandfather (or anyone else) is/was too thick to understand this, that's just sad.

++ When I was 6 years old I said to my mom "What the hell is going on" without realizing what it meant, and my grandfather was around, and he just laughed and left it up to my mom (who also thought it was funny) to explain what was wrong with that phrase. I never cursed in front of my parents again. I was probably a statistical anomaly growing up (I very rarely, if ever, gave my parents serious trouble), but I'm not sure if I would consider physical discipline short of stopping a dangerous situation (stove, running into street, etc.).

[WilliamC]

My children can get to my guns.
There has never been a lock under the kitchen sink or the bathroom sink.
Nor has there ever been a lock on the toolbox.
They can both get to sharp scissors, and the older one can get to Ginsu knives.
There's also wine and spirits within their reach.

Amazingly, they're not spending their days drunk, fingerless, and shooting hollow points through each others' eyes.
You don't need to bubble-wrap your house, and you don't need to hit them to keep them out of these things.
All you need is a little vigilance, and to take an interest in what they're doing the other 95% of the time, too.

+rep

[jonhowe]

My children can get to my guns.
There has never been a lock under the kitchen sink or the bathroom sink.
Nor has there ever been a lock on the toolbox.
They can both get to sharp scissors, and the older one can get to Ginsu knives.
There's also wine and spirits within their reach.

Amazingly, they're not spending their days drunk, fingerless, and shooting hollow points through each others' eyes.
You don't need to bubble-wrap your house, and you don't need to hit them to keep them out of these things.
All you need is a little vigilance, and to take an interest in what they're doing the other 95% of the time, too.

I would not advocate open access to firearms to those not educated in their use, but I do support your approach to parenting otherwise.

[Anti Federalist]

I would not advocate open access to firearms to those not educated in their use, but I do support your approach to parenting otherwise.

Locked up and unloaded guns are useless guns.

Thousand dollar New Year's Eve noisemakers.

[fisharmor]

I would not advocate open access to firearms to those not educated in their use, but I do support your approach to parenting otherwise.

Well, they aren't out on the coffee table. They are also loaded but unchambered unless they're on my person, so it's not like I've dug an alligator pit in the living room or anything.
As soon as the first one learned colors, I started drilling her on guns.
Black, silver, brown = don't touch.
If you don't remember, don't touch.
When she was 3 we got a nerf ball shooter and started going over Cooper's four rules, but simplified. It's always loaded. No pointing until you're shooting. No trigger until you're pointing. Watch out for people and animals.

Then she saw a fireworks show and was terrified. Guns are like fireworks, hon. Interest completely evaporated.

[Anti Federalist]

Guilty.

http://news.yahoo.com/woman-convicted-child-abuse-hot-sauce-case-211342641.html


Jessica Beagley could face the maximum sentence of one year in jail, a $10,000 fine and up to 10 years of probation when she is sentenced Monday, said District Judge David Wallace. She remains free without bail because the case is a misdemeanor.