Mike Huckabee is the best thing that could have possibly happened to us

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

I know, I know. There's a lot of resentment toward Mike Huckabee right now, mostly, in my opinion, because he's the second tier candidate that is doing what our candidate hasn't been able to do yet. However, I honestly believe that Mike Huckabee shooting up in the national polls is the best thing that could have possibly happened to us.

Take a look at what's happened to the numbers, particularly Rasmussen. Rudy has fallen back down to the low 20's and basically all the candidates are in the mid teens. There is no runaway frontrunner.

For Ron Paul to win, we don't need all the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a majority of the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a third of the Republicans to vote for him. We just need a plurality.

Right now, the 5 big-government, big-spending, pro-preemptive war, neo-conservative candidates have all leveled out to practically the same tier, and they're headlocked with no clear end in sight. Mike Huckabee's ascendance has, in reality, stolen votes from all the other neo-con candidates, and, essentially, lowered the bar for us. We couldn't have asked for a better gift.

What we have to do is convince about 20% of the Republicans to vote for our guy. It sounds challenging, but a lot of those converts will come if we can win or wow in New Hampshire. The Ron Paul votes are there--they nominated Goldwater in 1964--and those are the same votes we need to court. There is a quiet, latent wing of the GOP that still believes in limited constitutional government, foreign non-intervention, sound money, and personal and economic liberty, but we just need to wake it up and remind it of what it truly is.

With Mike Huckabee gaining traction, the game just got a whole lot easier.

[shepburn]

I know, I know. There's a lot of resentment toward Mike Huckabee right now, mostly, in my opinion, because he's the second tier candidate that is doing what our candidate hasn't been able to do yet. However, I honestly believe that Mike Huckabee shooting up in the national polls is the best thing that could have possibly happened to us.

Take a look at what's happened to the numbers, particularly Rasmussen. Rudy has fallen back down to the low 20's and basically all the candidates are in the mid teens. There is no runaway frontrunner.

For Ron Paul to win, we don't need all the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a majority of the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a third of the Republicans to vote for him. We just need a plurality.

Right now, the 5 big-government, big-spending, pro-preemptive war, neo-conservative candidates have all leveled out to practically the same tier, and they're headlocked with no clear end in sight. Mike Huckabee's ascendance has, in reality, stolen votes from all the other neo-con candidates, and, essentially, lowered the bar for us. We couldn't have asked for a better gift.

What we have to do is convince about 20% of the Republicans to vote for our guy. It sounds challenging, but a lot of those converts will come if we can win or wow in New Hampshire. The Ron Paul votes are there--they nominated Goldwater in 1964--and those are the same votes we need to court. There is a quiet, latent wing of the GOP that still believes in limited constitutional government, foreign non-intervention, sound money, and personal and economic liberty, but we just need to wake it up and remind it of what it truly is.

With Mike Huckabee gaining traction, the game just got a whole lot easier.

good post ... I also see no downside to the recent Huckabee 'surge'

[Shiranu]

I... will give this one a Shiranu Bump for its truthiness. Oh wait, colbert copyrighted that word... Awsomnicitality, then?

[filmmaker58]

It's the same with all of them. I hope they all stay in the race until the primarys are over. Dilute the neo-con votes. Go Ron Paul

[literatim]

I know, I know. There's a lot of resentment toward Mike Huckabee right now, mostly, in my opinion, because he's the second tier candidate that is doing what our candidate hasn't been able to do yet.

You mean having neocons fawn over him?

[ronpaulfan]

Mike Huckabee getting love from the media is BAD for us.
We can not let voters be tricked into thinking Huckabee is the "alternative choice" candidate. He is a f-ing neo-con. Dr. Paul is the true alternative choice candidate.
People disgusted with Guiliani/Romney/Thompson should be voting for Dr. Paul, not Huckabee
Huckabee has been stealing Ron Paul's platform on a daily basis. People attracted to that platform would have voted for Dr. Paul.

[Nash]

Mike Huckabee getting love from the media is BAD for us.

Huckabee has been stealing Ron Paul's platform on a daily basis. People attracted to that platform would have voted for Dr. Paul.

I'm not really seeing this point. Their policy positions couldn't be farther apart aside from the life issue. Huckabee is pro-war, big government, big spending, welfare state. Paul is none of those things.

Huckabee is in actuality a conservative democrat. He's probably the most liberal fiscally of all the candidates in the race.

Tancredo is stealing Paul votes for sure and Hunter probably pulls a few from California, Thompson is probably our biggest problem, not because he's actually conservative but because people think he is.

[Taco John]

Is Thompson still even in the race? Good God, that's the worst run presidential campaign I've ever seen.

[jamesmadison]

Mike Huckabee getting love from the media is BAD for us.

We can not let voters be tricked into thinking Huckabee is the "alternative choice" candidate. He is a f-ing neo-con. Dr. Paul is the true alternative choice candidate.
People disgusted with Guiliani/Romney/Thompson should be voting for Dr. Paul, not Huckabee
Huckabee has been stealing Ron Paul's platform on a daily basis. People attracted to that platform would have voted for Dr. Paul.

Uh... no.

40% of Republicans are against the War
60% of Republicans are for the War

Huckabee, Ghouliani, Romney, McCain, and Thompson are for the war
Ron Paul is against the war.

40% of Republicans would vote for Ron Paul if they knew who Ron Paul was.

Let them eat each other over the 60% of neocons and let's march to a victory.

[Starks]

Chucklebee is going nowhere.

[OptionsTrader]

It's the same with all of them. I hope they all stay in the race until the primarys are over. Dilute the neo-con votes. Go Ron Paul

I agree 100%. Dilute that neo-con vote like they are diluting the dollar and it is nothing by helpful. Just more and more risk Ron Paul may win!

[Question_Authority]

I know, I know. There's a lot of resentment toward Mike Huckabee right now, mostly, in my opinion, because he's the second tier candidate that is doing what our candidate hasn't been able to do yet. However, I honestly believe that Mike Huckabee shooting up in the national polls is the best thing that could have possibly happened to us.

.


Uhhh, nice sentiment, but would we all really be upset if the numbers were reversed and we were surging in the polls instead of HUckabee?

Anyway, I appreciate your positive outlook. Wish I had that spirit.

[shepburn]

Uh... no.

40% of Republicans are against the War
60% of Republicans are for the War

Huckabee, Ghouliani, Romney, McCain, and Thompson are for the war
Ron Paul is against the war.

40% of Republicans would vote for Ron Paul if they knew who Ron Paul was.

Let them eat each other over the 60% of neocons and let's march to a victory.

all good points

[johngr]

For Ron Paul to win, we don't need all the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a majority of the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a third of the Republicans to vote for him. We just need a plurality.

Plurality = back room deal

[Pete]

I don't think Huck is good for us because he is pulling a lot of Christians and some others who are fooled by his "grassroots" appeal. He talks a game that is much like Ron Paul's (except for being pro-war). His record doesn't support his BS, but when did that ever matter?

Huck is basically running for vice president and I would look for him to throw his delegates to Rudy.

Even so, I think that Ron Paul could win the nomination with as little as 20% of the delegates, because for every Republic supporter he has 1.5 to 2 that are not in the GOP. He could run as a Libertarian and possibly win, and definitely spoil. This will give him much clout at the convention.

[DrNoZone]

A dilution of the Republican vote is absolutely important to a Ron Paul victory, I agree. A brokered convention is what we need to win.

[Adamsa]

Buchanan the crap out of NH.

[LBT]

I think Aspiringconstitutionalist makes a good point. The warmonger base is looking for an option and it seems that a decent percentage of them are drifting into the Huckabee camp.

I think this will only help Ron Paul in early primaries.

The event that will cut the deck for us is if Ron Paul does well in some early primaries and stats start appearing which show him to be the only Republican with a chance to beat Hillary. Then many of the Republican die hards will have little choice but to get behind RP, even if they are uncomfortable with the antiwar sentiment.

My prediction is RP at 20-25% in early primaries and subsequent surveys placing him at 50/50 with Hillary versus the other top tier Rebublicans 40-60 v Hillary. Same for Obama if he climbs. This will draw more mainstream Republicans into supporting Ron Paul.

And if Ron Paul gets the nomination (50/50 in my book), he will slaughter Hillary on the war and on health which are her two key issues. Damn I look forward to those debates. I can imagine 1000+ youtube videos contrasting the two, 95% in favor of Ron Paul, having the effect of changing the debate to one of practical solutions versus hypocritical socialist/establishment soundbites.

[Adamsa]

The event that will cut the deck for us is if Ron Paul does well in some early primaries and stats start appearing which show him to be the only Republican with a chance to beat Hillary. Then many of the Republican die hards will have little choice but to get behind RP, even if they are uncomfortable with the antiwar sentiment.

Yup yup, thats just about the only way neo-cons will back Ron.

[Jodi]

uh oh

[Jodi]

Mike Huckabee getting love from the media is BAD for us.


We can not let voters be tricked into thinking Huckabee is the "alternative choice" candidate. He is a f-ing neo-con. Dr. Paul is the true alternative choice candidate.



With polls showing Ron Paul and Huckabee closely matched, the media is using Huckabee to throw Ron Paul under the bus.

[speciallyblend]

Ron Paul has all the clout he needs. The GOP will lose the general election ,unless they nominate Ron Paul,the other republicans cant even use ron pauls platform,since they have cornered themselves into war mongering and big intrusive government policies .

ITS PRETTY PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

THE GOP IS DEAD IN A GENERAL ELECTION,unless the nominate RON PAUL,if not tthe election is over before it began for the gop,this is the message i relate to the gop. Tell the gop dont screw it up ,or they are hillary supporters rudolf/mccain/thompson/romney/huckabee are just hillary clinton on steroids.

[LBT]

I think the real race here, is whether Ron Paul and his message can get wide enough circulation, in time, such that the GOP hardliners will be bombarded with and then recognize the evidence that he is the only candidate who can beat Hilllary.

Them thick skulls will need some heavy assault to be persuaded!

[Gimme Some Truth]

Iv seen quite a few people on the internet say that they were Ron Paul supporters but now support huckabee. So its not all good

[NewEnd]

Iv seen quite a few people on the internet say that they were Ron Paul supporters but now support huckabee. So its not all good

most of his suport is not leaching from Paul, its leaching from the other top tiers. In the end, it is definitley good. Paul may lose a point, but all the rest lose 5.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Huckabee needs to win Iowa. If he doesn't then he's finished because he can't win anywhere else. We probably have about $5 million in the bank. He might have $1 million. We might raise more on November 5th than he raised all last month! That's the plan anyway. Once he doesn't win Iowa, he will drop out and throw his support at Romney so he can become his VP. That's the only reason he's in the race. When he's out of the race, his supporters will see him as the sell out that he is and they'll either slit their wrists in their bathtubs like he encourages, or they'll come over to the good side and help us win New Hampshire! Give me liberty or give me death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Daveforliberty]

ITS PRETTY PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

THE GOP IS DEAD IN A GENERAL ELECTION,unless the nominate RON PAUL...cain/thompson/romney/huckabee are just hillary clinton on steroids.

The problem is the neocons don't care. They'll take Hillary. In fact, some of them will return to the Democratic party.

[Matt Collins]

FRED and HUCK will take the most votes away from RP!

We should go on the offensive attacking the policies and stances of Fred and Huck, including their past political actions.

[Thomas_Paine]

The only reason Huckabee is gaining:

1.) he is a media darling, a media prop, a phoney "dark horse"
2.) Republicans are desperately looking for a candidate who at least looks like a conservative, Huckabee fits that description. (However if you look at his history as governor you'd see a different story of course). Mike's gain is only the natural result of "Front Runners" being so unlikable. I don't think he is drawing votes from Ron's base. Let's face it, almost anyone who understands Ron Paul's stance on the issues would support him over the rest of the candidates, we are fighting the battle of ignorance as much as anything.

[James R]

I know, I know. There's a lot of resentment toward Mike Huckabee right now, mostly, in my opinion, because he's the second tier candidate that is doing what our candidate hasn't been able to do yet. However, I honestly believe that Mike Huckabee shooting up in the national polls is the best thing that could have possibly happened to us.

Take a look at what's happened to the numbers, particularly Rasmussen. Rudy has fallen back down to the low 20's and basically all the candidates are in the mid teens. There is no runaway frontrunner.

For Ron Paul to win, we don't need all the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a majority of the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a third of the Republicans to vote for him. We just need a plurality.

Right now, the 5 big-government, big-spending, pro-preemptive war, neo-conservative candidates have all leveled out to practically the same tier, and they're headlocked with no clear end in sight. Mike Huckabee's ascendance has, in reality, stolen votes from all the other neo-con candidates, and, essentially, lowered the bar for us. We couldn't have asked for a better gift.

What we have to do is convince about 20% of the Republicans to vote for our guy. It sounds challenging, but a lot of those converts will come if we can win or wow in New Hampshire. The Ron Paul votes are there--they nominated Goldwater in 1964--and those are the same votes we need to court. There is a quiet, latent wing of the GOP that still believes in limited constitutional government, foreign non-intervention, sound money, and personal and economic liberty, but we just need to wake it up and remind it of what it truly is.

With Mike Huckabee gaining traction, the game just got a whole lot easier.

I recently wrote a post taking a close look at the numbers which concluded that 1.9% of American adults are needed to win the Republican primaries election.

[porcupine]

Has anyone else noticed that almost all the candidates, Huckleberry included, start off all their sentences with "let me be clear." It gets really annoying. Mittwit is the worst when it comes to this.

[jj111]

Ron Paul has all the clout he needs. The GOP will lose the general election ,unless they nominate Ron Paul,the other republicans cant even use ron pauls platform,since they have cornered themselves into war mongering and big intrusive government policies .

ITS PRETTY PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

THE GOP IS DEAD IN A GENERAL ELECTION,unless the nominate RON PAUL,if not tthe election is over before it began for the gop,this is the message i relate to the gop. Tell the gop dont screw it up ,or they are hillary supporters rudolf/mccain/thompson/romney/huckabee are just hillary clinton on steroids.

How do you know that Hillary Clinton is not already on steroids?

[Buffalo Bruce]

Huckabee, like Richardson, are vice-presidential candidates being propped up to round out tickets with evangelicals and Hispanics. Like Romney, Fred and Giuliani, Huckabee will be haunted by his own non-conservative past. Not all of Huckabee's press has been good. Phyllis Schlafley and The American Spectator blasted Huckabee's conservative record last week.
http://www.taxhikemike.org/ http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010782
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12205

[Grandson of Liberty]

Is Thompson still even in the race? Good God, that's the worst run presidential campaign I've ever seen.

That's 'cause it was never meant to be a campaign, just a distraction. :cool:

[terlinguatx]

...

[Magsec]

For the best chances of RP winning we need all the other candidates' poll percentages to be as equalized as possible. We need Hunter and Tancredo to carry 5% each or something lol

[LibertyEagle]

I kind of feel sorry for the Huckabee supporters. I am sure they are good folks. Do they not realize that he is not conservative at all?

1. I mean, he supported the Dream Act and in-state tuition for illegal aliens. http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-88766.html

2. He was a tax hiker as governor of Arkansas.
http://www.taxhikemike.org/
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2006/02/mike_huckabee_is_a_tax_hiker.php
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/7/2/194431.shtml?s=tn

3. "In 2005, Huckabee called un-Christian, un-American and irresponsible a bill introduced by state Sen. Jim Holt that would have denied state benefits to illegal immigrants and would have required valid proof of citizenship to register to vote."
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58430

4. "Betsy Hagan, Arkansas director of the conservative Eagle Forum and a key backer of his early runs for office, was once "his No. 1 fan." She was bitterly disappointed with his record. "He was pro-life and pro-gun, but otherwise a liberal," she says. "Just like Bill Clinton he will charm you, but don't be surprised if he takes a completely different turn in office."

Phyllis Schlafly, president of the national Eagle Forum, is even more blunt. "He destroyed the conservative movement in Arkansas, and left the Republican Party a shambles," she says. "Yet some of the same evangelicals who sold us on George W. Bush as a 'compassionate conservative' are now trying to sell us on Mike Huckabee."

Mr. Huckabee was the only GOP candidate to refuse to endorse President Bush's veto of the Democrats' bill to vastly expand the Schip health-care program. Only he and John McCain have endorsed the discredited cap-and-trade system to limit global-warming emissions that has proved a fiasco in Europe."
http://opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010782

5. Christians need to beware Mike Huckabee by Pastor Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071102.html

[Sematary]

I know, I know. There's a lot of resentment toward Mike Huckabee right now, mostly, in my opinion, because he's the second tier candidate that is doing what our candidate hasn't been able to do yet. However, I honestly believe that Mike Huckabee shooting up in the national polls is the best thing that could have possibly happened to us.

Take a look at what's happened to the numbers, particularly Rasmussen. Rudy has fallen back down to the low 20's and basically all the candidates are in the mid teens. There is no runaway frontrunner.

For Ron Paul to win, we don't need all the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a majority of the Republicans to vote for him. We don't even need a third of the Republicans to vote for him. We just need a plurality.

Right now, the 5 big-government, big-spending, pro-preemptive war, neo-conservative candidates have all leveled out to practically the same tier, and they're headlocked with no clear end in sight. Mike Huckabee's ascendance has, in reality, stolen votes from all the other neo-con candidates, and, essentially, lowered the bar for us. We couldn't have asked for a better gift.

What we have to do is convince about 20% of the Republicans to vote for our guy. It sounds challenging, but a lot of those converts will come if we can win or wow in New Hampshire. The Ron Paul votes are there--they nominated Goldwater in 1964--and those are the same votes we need to court. There is a quiet, latent wing of the GOP that still believes in limited constitutional government, foreign non-intervention, sound money, and personal and economic liberty, but we just need to wake it up and remind it of what it truly is.

With Mike Huckabee gaining traction, the game just got a whole lot easier.


I agree 100%

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

FRED and HUCK will take the most votes away from RP!

We should go on the offensive attacking the policies and stances of Fred and Huck, including their past political actions.

For those who continue to insist that Fred Thompson's inclusion and Mike Huckabee's ascendance are bad for Ron Paul--that they're stealing votes or media attention from Ron Paul--answer me this:

* Since Mike Huckabee starting climbing in the national polls after Ames, whose numbers have dropped and whose numbers have been steadily rising in the national polls?
* Since Mike Huckabee starting climbing in the national polls after Ames, whose numbers have dropped and whose numbers have been steadily rising in the New Hampshire polls?
* Who was in third place on Intrade before the Huckabee surge and who's in third place now after?
* Which candidates has Jay Leno invited on the Tonight Show and which candidates haven't been invited?
* Which candidate was it that recently got a (friendly) full frontpage story on MSNBC.com?

[Primbs]

Tell the voters if they ever voted for Reagan, they owe it to their philosophy to check out Ron Paul. Ron Paul endorsed Reagan early and Reagan endorsed Ron Paul.

If they want to control government spending they must vote for Ron Paul.

[Jimmy]

Anyone has a link to him talking in favor of dream act? Thanks in advanced.

[dsentell]

I spent the weekend working at a gun show spreading the message of RP. This area has a lot of Huck supporters. It did seem that they were the easiest to convert.

I would agree with them and praise Huck's stance on guns, then ask what they think about amnesty for the illegals. Everyone was against amnesty and I would politely point out that Huck favors amnesty and hand them an article telling about it. Every one of them was shocked and most ended up taking RP literature and bumper stickers.

Bottom line -- Huck supporters are the easiest converts, but we must educate them . . . ..

By the way, Fred was pretty popular around here, he seems to have slipped out of sight in favor of Huck.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Iv seen quite a few people on the internet say that they were Ron Paul supporters but now support huckabee. So its not all good

Where did hear about those folks?? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation ???

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

How do you know that Hillary Clinton is not already on steroids?

Steroids would have lowered her voice, not made it as shrill as a fruitbat. :D

[ronpaulitician]

The positions held by Paul and Huckabee are different enough that there's no real risk of people who might vote for Paul to join Huckabee's team. Not with the attention Paul is getting these days.

I hope Huckabee stays in the race, because it's all about perception right now. The kind of perception we need is that Paul has a shot. With Huckabee dividing the pro-war vote, Paul's numbers will be closer to Giuliani's and Romney's numbers if Huckabee is still running.

[Adamsa]

Huck supporters are like halfway Ron Paul supporters, they just need a little information to make the choice to join themselves.

[Cindy]

The resentment towards Huck, that some may have, is pretty much tied to his attempt to slap Paul down with the, " We must stay the course in Iraq to save our Honor" rhetoric.

Paul shot back saying, they are only staying to save face and thats a bad reason, costing more money and more lives.


That, "You broke it you bought it line" related to something like breaking then owning a new country was out of line related to another country and I can't believe it was okay with anyone that he said that.

Great foundation for a nation building plan. Lets just run around destroying other countries so we can honorably buy and then own them with the rebuilding effort.

I do not like the warped and misguided ideology he is feeding American minds with. It will lead to our ruin and collapse if people buy into it because he attached Empire and nation building to being honorable.

[ronpaulitician]

Iv seen quite a few people on the internet say that they were Ron Paul supporters but now support huckabee.
What reasons did they give? Unless they were able to provide reasonable arguments for their change of heart, and can show that they did indeed support Paul in the past, I assume these people were in the Huckabee camp from the get-go.

[mbauer]

Mike Huckabee getting love from the media is BAD for us.
We can not let voters be tricked into thinking Huckabee is the "alternative choice" candidate. He is a f-ing neo-con. Dr. Paul is the true alternative choice candidate.
People disgusted with Guiliani/Romney/Thompson should be voting for Dr. Paul, not Huckabee
Huckabee has been stealing Ron Paul's platform on a daily basis. People attracted to that platform would have voted for Dr. Paul.

Don't throw names like f-ing neo-con around unfoundedly. While a Ron Paul Supporter, Huckabee would be my first choice among the rest of the Republican Party. Taking this unfounded bashing mentality towards candidates is what causes us to lose credibility in so many areas and thus have RP hurt by the stereotypes of his supporters. Research what Neo-Con means, Research Huckabee, watch him speak, look at his Governing records of AR (a generally undereducated and underfunded state which makes the Governor job so much more difficult) and you'll discover he isn't a Neo-Con.

You can't hate candidates for not understanding they need to think outside the box. Groupthink is incredibly powerful.

[coffeewithchess]

I have researched Huckabee's record as governor...TaxHikeMike.com (http://taxhikemike.com/)

[mbauer]

My major point was the rhetoric taken in the post I quoted, not the perfection of Huckabee.

A quick defense for him- try reforming a state that was handed to you with nothing but problems prolonged by Bill Clinton's reign as gov.

We (yes I'm an Arkansan) desperately need reform in our school system and money put into roads. Our taxes have always been relatively low.

2 more thoughts-
1) Don't assume that every RP supporter of libertarianism on the national level, also always thinks it works perfectly on the state level. Analyze every situation.

2) Don't hate Huck because he is doing a thing or two right causing the "free thinkers" to look outside the media appointed big guns and honestly consider a candidate. If these same free thinkers here you say Fuck Huck then who have you helped? Certaintly no enhanced their desire to have an open mind for RP.

[fcofer]

2) Don't hate Huck because he is doing a thing or two right causing the "free thinkers" to look outside the media appointed big guns and honestly consider a candidate. If these same free thinkers here you say Fuck Huck then who have you helped? Certaintly no enhanced their desire to have an open mind for RP.

I agree with you. I don't have a problem with his supporters. I just think that he's a huckster (it's a word! see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/huckster).

A wrote a huge megapost a while back about how we should deal with Huckabee's grassroots campaign -- you might agree with it: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=317485&postcount=47

I do think, however, that this thread should be moved to General Politics.

[Goldwater Conservative]

7+ pro-war government-lovers versus 1 anti-war true conservative, and yet they say Paul is a "spoiler" and not a "real" Republican. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the other good news about this is that even if Paul doesn't win, all this vote-splitting might get the GOP to finally leave the Stone Age and get behind electoral reform.

[austin356]

These people are funny:

http://forum.hucksarmy.com/



But I saw a good idea on there. They have donation code for their forums to track how much the forums members donated. That would be cool for us to use!!!

--------------------
back to topic:

How many states are "winner take all" with delegates? That really really is a big issue with us considering we have to have 51% of the delegates in September to win.

[Bertrand]

Huckabee is bad for Paul. Many are attracted to him only for his tax stand and this is hurtin Ron Paul. Neo-cons are not going to Huckabee, moderate conservatives, social conservatives and slight libertarians are.

[sugaki]

Uhh, I think some ppl don't understand the key issue for evangelical constituents--it IS marriage and abortion. Being fiscally conservative, pro-gun is very much a secondary issue. Between the choice of a fiscal liberal/moral conservative and a fiscal conservative/moral liberal, neocon constituents will always rally behind the former.

And going back to the point of votes being split, they likely won't. Republicans tend to make closed-door deals for unity sake, so you can expend them to rally behind the person most likely to fulfill neocon motives. Of course, Republicans also know a straight neocon won't win this coming election due to Bush backlash, so I'm guessing it's going to be Guiliani pres + a social conservative in order to have something appealing to social conservatives.

[fcofer]

Uhh, I think some ppl don't understand the key issue for evangelical constituents--it IS marriage and abortion. Being fiscally conservative, pro-gun is very much a secondary issue. Between the choice of a fiscal liberal/moral conservative and a fiscal conservative/moral liberal, neocon constituents will always rally behind the former.

I'm almost hesitant to ask this, sugaki, but since you self-identified as a moral conservative on another thread (in fact, I think you even used 'neocon' as the adjective :) ), why do you support Ron Paul? Perhaps this argument is what we need to present to the Huck supporters.

Perhaps we have different definitions of 'moral liberal', which I interpret to mean, 'laissez-faire' with respect to what other people are allowed to do.

[fcofer]

Huckabee is bad for Paul. Many are attracted to him only for his tax stand and this is hurtin Ron Paul. Neo-cons are not going to Huckabee, moderate conservatives, social conservatives and slight libertarians are.

I disagree. I think that Huckabee is only retaining social conservatives, neo-conservatives, and big government-conservatives. He's attracting fiscal conservatives with his IRS abolition / FairTax deal, but they'll abandon him for Paul.

He's good for splitting the warhawks, I think. So long as Thompson doesn't drop out, he's not affecting us.

[sugaki]

I'm almost hesitant to ask this, sugaki, but since you self-identified as a moral conservative on another thread (in fact, I think you even used 'neocon' as the adjective :) ), why do you support Ron Paul? Perhaps this argument is what we need to present to the Huck supporters.

Perhaps we have different definitions of 'moral liberal', which I interpret to mean, 'laissez-faire' with respect to what other people are allowed to do.

Isn't laissez faire used strictly in an economic sense? Ah well.

When I say morally liberal, I mean the antithesis to Christian right-wing morality. Democrats and their constituents aren't out to provide freedoms in choosing between different ideologies; they're out to quash Christian morality and replace it with their own brand of morality. THAT is what irks me.

The fear that my church, as well as other people have is that the state will inevitably force its morality on us. Take gay marriage. What if our church refuses to marry gay couples? Lawsuits have already started against churches that refuse to do this based on their religious beliefs. That's my definition of the liberal agenda. What Christian conservatives dread more than anything else is that the govt (whether state or federal) will start controlling the churches, and what they can and cannot believe.

That is exactly why evangelicals are so impassioned by this. They see their own worldview under attack, threatened.

Now under a Ron Paul "laissez faire" doctrine, Christian evangelicals wouldn't need to worry about govt dictating what churches can and cannot to, because it's none of the govt's business. So even to a social conservative like myself, that's appealing. I'll bring up marriage again because it's a good example: marriage has been politicized, and now the govt is defining for people what marriage is and isn't. Ron Paul is against that, and believes marriage fundamentally is a religious principle.

Ron Paul's ideology guarantees that the church and state say separate. What I mean by that is that the state won't impose upon the church what the govt believes is and isn't right. I feel that was the original intent of the forefathers. Hence, even with my conservative ideology I support Ron Paul.

The problem with traditional democratic/republican candidates is that one side tries to squash the other's morality. Neocons want to suppress liberal morality, liberal dems want to suppress social conservatives. With Ron Paul, that all becomes a moot point, as the govt is stripped from the picture.

Of course, reading the vitriol against neocons on here, I'm not sure whether some RP supporters actually see it in that light, but that's what I make of RP's views.

[me3]

These people are funny:


But I saw a good idea on there. They have donation code for their forums to track how much the forums members donated. That would be cool for us to use!!!

--------------------
back to topic:

How many states are "winner take all" with delegates? That really really is a big issue with us considering we have to have 51% of the delegates in September to win.
Stop linking there, please. At the very least, make sure your link has to be copy pasted. C'mon now.

[Ron Paul in 2008]

With Mike Huckabee gaining traction, the game just got a whole lot easier.

There is really no proof that Huckabee is gaining traction. He may slightly but this is only due to the media promoting him after the other media backed candidates have failed. They will try to shove these status quo politicians down our throats but people are sick of it. Huckabee is unelectable with his liberal fiscal record and unapologetic support of amnesty.

[fcofer]

Isn't laissez faire used strictly in an economic sense? Ah well.

I believe it means literally, "to allow to do...".


Of course, reading the vitriol against neocons on here, I'm not sure whether some RP supporters actually see it in that light, but that's what I make of RP's views.

I think this might be a semantic argument. Most people here feel precisely as you do. However, the term "neocon" is commonly understood to mean "big-government conservative"; i.e., a government that is well-funded and powerful and tries to impose certain moral values by force (just as a big-government liberal would do).

[chrismatthews]

Isn't laissez faire used strictly in an economic sense? Ah well.

When I say morally liberal, I mean the antithesis to Christian right-wing morality. Democrats and their constituents aren't out to provide freedoms in choosing between different ideologies; they're out to quash Christian morality and replace it with their own brand of morality. THAT is what irks me.

The fear that my church, as well as other people have is that the state will inevitably force its morality on us. Take gay marriage. What if our church refuses to marry gay couples? Lawsuits have already started against churches that refuse to do this based on their religious beliefs. That's my definition of the liberal agenda. What Christian conservatives dread more than anything else is that the govt (whether state or federal) will start controlling the churches, and what they can and cannot believe.

That is exactly why evangelicals are so impassioned by this. They see their own worldview under attack, threatened.

Now under a Ron Paul "laissez faire" doctrine, Christian evangelicals wouldn't need to worry about govt dictating what churches can and cannot to, because it's none of the govt's business. So even to a social conservative like myself, that's appealing. I'll bring up marriage again because it's a good example: marriage has been politicized, and now the govt is defining for people what marriage is and isn't. Ron Paul is against that, and believes marriage fundamentally is a religious principle.

Ron Paul's ideology guarantees that the church and state say separate. What I mean by that is that the state won't impose upon the church what the govt believes is and isn't right. I feel that was the original intent of the forefathers. Hence, even with my conservative ideology I support Ron Paul.

The problem with traditional democratic/republican candidates is that one side tries to squash the other's morality. Neocons want to suppress liberal morality, liberal dems want to suppress social conservatives. With Ron Paul, that all becomes a moot point, as the govt is stripped from the picture.

Of course, reading the vitriol against neocons on here, I'm not sure whether some RP supporters actually see it in that light, but that's what I make of RP's views.


No, i agree with your analysis, it's right on. The problem is that neocon means big government conservative. It doesn't sound like you're a big government conservative at all.

If you think government should stay out of the church and marriage then you're the opposite of a neocon, or very nearly so.

[Adamsa]

Personally I think Huckabee is in the same boat as us.

[shortna]

Huckabee is finished.

Huckabee Begs For New Taxes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pLOC4krZI4)