[Video] Fox News Bret Baier "Our Email Boxes Are Filled"

[Immortal Technique]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mjqDXBCAtc

Airing Date Aug.16, 2011


@1:12 Brett Baier "Our email boxes are filled"

@ 1:24 Kirsten Powers on the panel says she knows what all gop voters think so she knows that Ron Paul can not win.

@ 3:29 Charles Krauthammer says at the end if Ron does not win the nomination he could go third party and could cost the gop the election.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Ron Paul's views didn't go over well with republican voters, that's why he tied with Bachmann.

[V4Vendetta]

Charles Krauthammer NEOCON BASTARD
Bill Krystal = COMPLETE AND TOTAL NEOCON BASTARD
Kristen Powers - shes new to me - but she is now on my neo-con list.

Funny how they chose a completely neocon panel to discuss Ron Paul and his Ames Iowa TIE!!!!!!

[Jeremy]

Bill didn't have anything to say?

[bunklocoempire]

Join Or Die.:)



Bunkloco

[Kords21]

The look on Krauthammer's face when Bair was asking his first question was priceless almost saying "I'll die if I say anything nice about Ron Paul".

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

Kirsten Powers is a ditz. We don't expect commentators to say he's going to win! We want you to quit saying he can't win and going out your way to dismiss him or ignore him!

[ViniVidiVici]

Funny how in the RP ad clip, Fox edits it to start right after it compares Romney, Perry and Obama as smooth talking politicians

[Cutlerzzz]

I'm almost starting to wish that Ron would run 3rd party just to kill the Republican's chances.

[pcosmar]

"he can't win"
And that is her decision to make?

:(
"it could cost them the election"
Yes, but then not nominating the only man that CAN beat Obama could cost them the election.

[Humanae Libertas]

"he can't win"
And that is her decision to make?

:(

They use force to make you do, what the deciders have decided you must do.

[Aliangel]

He doesn't have to , we just need to write him in or vote for obama. The GOP will lose if Ron isn't nominated , almost certain.

[Diurdi]

That Krauthammer guy is the ugliest person I've seen amongst the "talking heads" in a while.

[shirgall]

Ms. Powers has been around for years as a lefty counterpoint to Michelle Malkin on Fox, for those that don't know her.

[pacelli]

GOP would rather lose than nominate Paul. Think about it.

BTW the former psychiatrist Dr. krauthammer doesn't have the best judgment in the world. That's why he is a commentator on FoxNews and no longer practicing psychiatry. Ever wonder what sorts of decisions he made in his life that led him to wind up in his current position? So I don't listen to Krauthammer.

And Fox News, hacking people's cellphones... they have credibility?

[UtahApocalypse]

"he can't win"
And that is her decision to make?

:(
"it could cost them the election"
Yes, but then not nominating the only man that CAN beat Obama could cost them the election.

They dont' want Ron Paul and know only he will beat Obama. Already setting him up to be the scapegoat.

[headhawg7]

I have been sending emails to fox for a while now. Maybe if we can continue to flood their emails they may start to at least give some fair coverage and quit ignoring him. I don't threaten them or curse. I am very polite and tell them to please give ron paul fair coverage. I ask them to give him the same coverage that the other candidates get...no more...no less. Here is a list of the email addresses. I am not sure it will change anything but if paul can just get some fair coverage he will win the nomination and dominate the presidential election...especially the debates against obama.

Email
America Live w/ Megyn Kelly kelly@foxnews.com
America's Newsroom w/ Bill and Martha americasnewsroom@foxnews.com
Bulls and Bears bullsandbears@foxnews.com
Cashin' In cash@foxnews.com
Cavuto on Business cavuto@foxnews.com
Forbes on FOX forbes@foxnews.com
FOX & Friends friends@foxnews.com
FOX News Specials fncspecials@foxnews.com
FOX News Sunday fns@foxnews.com
FOX News Watch newswatch@foxnews.com
FOX Report w/ Shepard Smith foxreport@foxnews.com
FOX Report Weekend foxreport@foxnews.com
Geraldo at Large atlarge@foxnews.com
Hannity hannity@foxnews.com
Happening Now w/ Jon Scott & Jenna Lee happeningnow@foxnews.com
Huckabee huckmail@foxnews.com
Glenn Beck glennbeck@foxnews.com
The Journal Editorial Report jer@foxnews.com
On the Record w/ Greta Van Susteren ontherecord@foxnews.com
Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld redeye@foxnews.com
Special Report w/ Bret Baier special@foxnews.com
Studio B w/ Shepard Smith studiob@foxnews.com
The O'Reilly Factor oreilly@foxnews.com
War Stories w/ Oliver North warstories@foxnews.com
Your World w/ Neil Cavuto cavuto@foxnews.com

[Jingles]

The only people on Fox that I have respect for are The Judge, Stossel, Lou Dobbs, and a bit for Neil Cavuto (He is definitely one of the more respectful to Ron Paul than the others I think its for Neil's focus is on economics and markets more so than other things)... Well and Juan Williams a bit. Greg Gutfeld just comes off as more of a comedian to me.

Everyone else is a joke/sucks.

[lucky_bg]

No people, this is actually very good. This is great! Krauthamer finally said something we all know to be true - Republican party can not win the elections without Ron Paul. And as more people in Republican party, and especialy Republican voters comes to the same conclusion, better are Ron's chances for winning nomination. Ron Paul or bust!

[muh_roads]

Coverage is better than no coverage. If they said this all day Sunday I'd be a lot happier than I am now. It's not as if all of Bachmann & Perry's coverage has been peachy over the last 48 hours.

The e-mails & phone calls are working.

[Agorism]

So when we get coverage it's not about strength within the GOP of our support but about some pipe dream third party bid...

[speciallyblend]

No people, this is actually very good. This is great! Krauthamer finally said something we all know to be true - Republican party can not win the elections without Ron Paul. And as more people in Republican party, and especially Republican voters comes to the same conclusion, better are Ron's chances for winning nomination. Ron Paul or bust!

it is the bottom line, the gop nominates Ron Paul 2012 or the gop elects obama!! the gop can only blame themselves for not nominating Ron Paul in 2008 and running pathetic obama republicans(gop est/neo-cons).

[bunklocoempire]

No people, this is actually very good. This is great! Krauthamer finally said something we all know to be true - Republican party can not win the elections without Ron Paul. And as more people in Republican party, and especialy Republican voters comes to the same conclusion, better are Ron's chances for winning nomination. Ron Paul or bust!

+ 1776. As fear is the only thing these partyline voters understand...


Bunkloco

[Cowlesy]

I find pissing off the media a fruitless endeavor. Kirsten Powers has said kind things about Ron Paul before on I believe the Judge's show. She's fine, just comes from the left.

Look, OK Charles, Kristol and Brett, ignore Ron Paul. But in 20 years when we're living in something out of a dystopian novel where the young hate the old for living in the golden age while they struggle, just remember you COULD have been objective to the one guy who was trying to prevent it, but you didn't. You figured thinks could doddle along with a "Business as Usual" attitude, until we finally got called on debasing the currency, and the rest of the world, flush with our shared technology from rampant globalization, figured out they don't need the late great USA anymore, because they can produce everything themselves.

Because, as much as these guys think they're for "free markets", they're actually the ones who will be partially responsible for killing America's ability to innovate. And That is the Gospel.

[pcosmar]

I find pissing off the media a fruitless endeavor.

Interesting take. i did an experiment earlier today.
I Googled "Media Blackout". It is being spoken about in blogs and editorials and there are many articles. Good and bad.
Many of them reference Jon Stewart's show, and even those that obviously don't like Ron can see it.

It is blatant. It seems coordinated. It is waking people up to the media bias and political corruption.

This is a good thing.
;)

[LibertyEagle]

GOP would rather lose than nominate Paul. Think about it.


The leadership at the top?... absolutely, agreed.

I think the rank and file believe differently.

[angelatc]

Look, OK Charles, Kristol and Brett, ignore Ron Paul. But in 20 years when we're living in something out of a dystopian novel where the young hate the old for living in the golden age while they struggle, just remember you COULD have been objective to the one guy who was trying to prevent it, but you didn't.

They'll be the old guys living high on the hog. Why should they care?

[specsaregood]

The leadership at the top?... absolutely, agreed.


I think the leadership at the top would rather lose no matter what. Being the minority party means no responsibility, no blame.

[Agorism]

They'll be the old guys living high on the hog. Why should they care?

Political-Industrial class. Not just politicians but the pundits attached at their hips.

[Sola_Fide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mjqDXBCAtc

Airing Date Aug.16, 2011


@1:12 Brett Baier "Our email boxes are filled"

@ 1:24 Kirsten Powers on the panel says she knows what all gop voters think so she knows that Ron Paul can not win.

@ 3:29 Charles Krauthammer says at the end if Ron does not win the nomination he could go third party and could cost the gop the election.

Ron needs to use his leverage and threaten a third party run.

[pcosmar]

Ron needs to use his leverage and threaten a third party run.

Whether he wants to or not,, and even if he doesn't want to,, he should use it as leverage.

Sort of like Open Carry,, a visible deterrent.
It should be one of the guns on the table in this poker game.

[realtonygoodwin]

You can't just put everyone who doesn't think Dr. Paul can't win into the "neocon" category. It is not a catch-all insult.

[bunklocoempire]

Ron needs to use his leverage and threaten a third party run.

Sorta, I think it is our job to make it clear that it will be Paul or Obama. Paul has been pretty clear about himself and a third party run in the past.

He could certainly mention his voters will be of no help to the GOP without him...:)

"I'd like to help you out and all, but you see it's these voters of mine, they're really serious about their liberty";)

Bunkloco

[lucky_bg]

Sorta, I think it is our job to make it clear that it will be Paul or Obama. Paul has been pretty clear about himself and a third party run in the past.

He could certainly mention his voters will be of no help to the GOP without him...:)

"I'd like to help you out and all, but you see it's these voters of mine, they're really serious about their liberty";)

Bunkloco

I recommend you as a speechwriter... :)))) (not that RP needs one)

[ItsTime]

He should not threaten 3rd party bid. But we should make it clear we will NEVER vote for a neocon like Perry, Mitt or Bachmann.

[icon124]

I'm almost starting to wish that Ron would run 3rd party just to kill the Republican's chances.


Yea I would say if he doesn't get the nomination in the primary I would say since he is done in politics go third party to screw the Republican party. Kind of like a payback for not listening.

But with that being said I know he doesn't want to do a third party run. But it would be a nice finger in the air on the way out haha

[DamianTV]

That video perfectly reflects the MSM's general attitude, and was totally scripted. They are so full of shit that their eyes are brown. They "Dont talk about him because his views make him a 'non viable candidate'" (paraphrased) and who the hell is that woman to tell the people who are obviously representing the MAJORITY that Ron Pauls views are wrong? Obviously the Public agrees with Ron Paul. This piss poor excuse for a Political Journalist needs to go see her Proctologist to get her HEAD examined.

[foofighter20x]

For all the old timers here...

Kirsten Powers is the new Pauline Kael (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Kael#Alleged_Nixon_quote)

[AGRP]

The anchors you see on tv are the equivalent of nba players for their profession.

They will say and do anything it takes to stay in the league.

They are at the top of their profession and they will kill to stay there.

[silentshout]

He should not threaten 3rd party bid. But we should make it clear we will NEVER vote for a neocon like Perry, Mitt or Bachmann.
I won't vote for any Republican, besides Ron Paul or Johnson or someone similar. I'll just write one of them in, or write my own name. I'd prefer Obama over the other neocons.

[Knightskye]

Ron Paul's views didn't go over well with republican voters, that's why he tied with Bachmann.

And there was a Gallup poll this month showing that he polls 3rd place nationally at 14%, 1% ahead of Bachmann, 3% behind Perry. But yeah, no shot at the nomination.

I think a lot of Romney voters will switch over to Perry, because they're largely interchangeable but they like Perry's "platform" or his hairdo more than they do Romney. Paul's numbers shouldn't change too much.

[Anti Federalist]

@ 3:29 Charles Krauthammer says at the end if Ron does not win the nomination he could go third party and could cost the gop the election.

If just a small percentage of the Ron Paul army does what I intend to do, write his name in come hell or high water, this will happen, regardless.

The GOP can be smart and nominate Ron, or be stupid and whine about O-Bomb-ya for 4 more years.

[chadhb]

This thread is what I would call sarcasism, because anybody taking this serious well....... The Republican Faux News Party win's either way, Obama is a NeoCon, who has followed in GWB path, so do you really think it matters who win's?

If there is any goal, it is for Ron Paul to run 3rd party, garuntee one of the chosen candidates. Forget the dog and pony show, Ron needs to win the Primary or we must take to the streets.

[libertyjam]

"he can't win"
And that is her decision to make?

:(
"it could cost them the election"
Yes, but then not nominating the only man that CAN beat Obama could cost them the election.

I know I will not vote for an 'establishment' Republican.

[DamianTV]

If the media is forced to acknowledge Ron Paul, everyone knows well enough by now that they are going to Attack His Character. That tactic works quite well on a lot of people that are too lazy to actually listen to what Ron Paul has to say, or are too ignorant to realize that what Ron Paul does say is not rehashed regurgitated rhetoric.

[Eleutheros]

So when we get coverage it's not about strength within the GOP of our support but about some pipe dream third party bid...

Say what you will about RP going third party or about Krauthammer in general, but I think Krauthammer makes a VERY good point that I think the Ron Paul campaign should consider:

If Ron Paul does not win the GOP nomination, since he will not be running for another term in Congress, he needs to pull a Samson and bring down the GOP by going third party. This is not because he will win the presidency this way (it would've been an extremely moot point in any event), but this will be to bring down the GOP the way Samson brought down the temple, and Ron Paul will go out with some dignity and the GOP will be royally (and rightfully) ridiculed for practically giving Obama the red carpet treatment whereby Obama will walk right into his 2nd term.

It is time for Ron to hit back and hit back hard, and if the GOP won't grant him the nomination, then their party doesn't deserve to win in 2012, and going third party will most definately seal this fate.

[Eleutheros]

Yea I would say if he doesn't get the nomination in the primary I would say since he is done in politics go third party to screw the Republican party. Kind of like a payback for not listening.

But with that being said I know he doesn't want to do a third party run. But it would be a nice finger in the air on the way out haha

+1776

[KramerDSP]

But then Rand 2016 goes up in smoke. Ron Paul knows what's best. I will support whatever decision he makes. But yeah, it's Ron Paul or four more years of Obama/Bush.

[swiftfoxmark2]

Charles Krauthammer is an idiot. We all know that anyone can beat Obama right now, so it doesn't matter who wins the Republican nomination. The only way the Republicans can lose is if they pick someone who alienates around 15% of their base support, like in 1992. Given the Ames Straw Poll results, Ron Paul isn't that guy.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

If just a small percentage of the Ron Paul army does what I intend to do, write his name in come hell or high water, this will happen, regardless.

The GOP can be smart and nominate Ron, or be stupid and whine about O-Bomb-ya for 4 more years.

They'd rather be stupid.

[HOLLYWOOD]

The look on Krauthammer's face when Bair was asking his first question was priceless almost saying "I'll die if I say anything nice about Ron Paul".4 FOX NEWS hacks all paid by the same Corporation. A corporation that has their insiders in government with well connected operations between the two. Does anyone think corporate media is ever going to give Ron Paul a fair shake, when he's a threat to their cozy establishment operations?

When Charles Krauthammer had his rectum removed and he was in a wheelchair on FNC sets, he reminded me so much of this guy:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=dr+strangelove+wheelchair&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Wpi&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1280&bih=655&tbm=isch&tbnid=s26EAW82VUUMHM:&imgrefurl=http://soniceditions.com/image/dr-strangelove&docid=yYy3eOBjDeGSdM&w=333&h=500&ei=NttLTommFsfZiALt6_SXAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=606&vpy=197&dur=6058&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=137&ty=193&page=7&tbnh=157&tbnw=105&start=103&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:103http://soniceditions.com/library/sellers-1Q3I_o_tn.jpg

[Bruno]

Funny how in the RP ad clip, Fox edits it to start right after it compares Romney, Perry and Obama as smooth talking politicians

Funny as in disgusting, I agree.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Charles Krauthammer is an idiot. We all know that anyone can beat Obama right now, so it doesn't matter who wins the Republican nomination. The only way the Republicans can lose is if they pick someone who alienates around 15% of their base support, like in 1992. Given the Ames Straw Poll results, Ron Paul isn't that guy.

Almost 21 million voted in the republic primaries last election. Ron Paul got 1.2 million votes, but that's when he only had a FRACTION of the support he has now. If you use Iowa as a measure of support, he has 3.5x-4x the support now, which brings it up to almost 5 million.

[Bruno]

Charles Krauthammer is the Grinch

[Romulus]

Trust me when I say the GOP fears Ron Paul will cost them the election... they want to win, but know they cant w/o our support. Which if they had druthers, would rather have Obama win vs RP getting the nomination.

So please, people dont consider voting for Obomber!

Either Ron gets the nod and we win against Obombya, or we write in Ron Paul - and we should stick to that!

[kahless]

I wonder how much off this is motivated simply by group think at Foxnews to avoid being ostracized, direct orders from Roger Ailes, a sense of panic coming from their Neocon establishment friends whom has their ears, party bosses and their friends in the military industrial complex.

Much of that there is nothing we can do other than hope the emails will change some minds of the anchors but it is a lost cause if these are orders directly coming from Roger Ailes. He is calling the shots and is the only one over there can put an immediate end to the bias and media blackout if he wanted.

[FunkBuddha]

Ron has the Republican party in check if he wants to play it that way. He is a better man than I, though. I'd give it to the bastards good and hard.

[SimpleName]

"We know his views aren't going to go over well." Perfect reasoning to act like he doesn't exist. From now on the media should act like cancer doesn't exist because they know viewers aren't going to take it well.

[Peace&Freedom]

It's not just Fox, aka the right side of the establishment table. The 'line' laid down Sunday from five different news networks was that the frontrunners are Perry, Romney and Bachmann, and Paul can't win so he's to be treated (at best) as an also-ran. The same line, the same soundbites, the same put downs, means this is a corporate media establishment-wide groupthink project. Collaboration on this scale screams Conspiracy, but some sensitive ears here cannot stand the C word, so let's move on...

I firmly believe the MSM's original plan for dealing with Paul this time, was to hard blackout him from the outset, and even exclude him from the debates much like how they are treating Johnson, to prevent him from being part of the coverage from jump. But because his popularity and warchest is so large, and his initial opponents in the primary race so puny (except perhaps for Bachmann, unable to raise small-donor money and grassroots support), to save face they ended up covering him anyway. Now with Paul exploding to attain real frontrunner status despite their opposition, the MSM is stuck.

How do you talk up a phony frontrunner like Bachmann whose gaffes could implode her at any moment, while ignoring Paul? How do you talk up a phony frontrunner like Perry who has yet to accomplish anything, and has raised no money, while ignoring Paul? How do you talk up a phony frontrunner like Romney whose candidacy has picked up even less steam than he had at this point in 2007, while ignoring Paul? How exactly do they keep this up for 4-5 months?

[georgiaboy]

GOP getting the White House in 2012 has zero to do with what Ron Paul does.

It has everything to do with what we do. Our eyes have been opened; we see the candidates for who they are. We know which ones will do what they say, which ones can be trusted to truly implement constitutionally bound government. And we've learned that we have enough strength in numbers, to make a real impact on election outcomes; our numbers also happen to be growing.

Right now, there is only one viable presidential candidate who fits this criteria, and it happens to be Ron Paul. Ron himself has said it's not about the person, it's about the principles, and we now know this.

Our votes aren't for sale, they aren't for a team, they aren't to keep the worst guy out of office. They are for the right principles, and those principles driving and binding the agenda. They always have been this way for us, but in the past we've been fooled into believing a vote for the party or the words or against the other guy would get us moving in the direction we seek.

We won't be fooled again.

[SWATH]

Every single voter should be outraged at the arrogance of the media just openly saying:

"we know what your thinking better than you do, so we will just pick your candidate for you, you know to save you the trouble of thinking"

Especially the judgment of someone like Kirsten Powers who used to date Anthony Wiener.

[Anti Federalist]

Oh yeah, gotta give that a rep.


GOP getting the White House in 2012 has zero to do with what Ron Paul does.

It has everything to do with what we do. Our eyes have been opened; we see the candidates for who they are. We know which ones will do what they say, which ones can be trusted to truly implement constitutionally bound government. And we've learned that we have enough strength in numbers, to make a real impact on election outcomes; our numbers also happen to be growing.

Right now, there is only one viable presidential candidate who fits this criteria, and it happens to be Ron Paul. Ron himself has said it's not about the person, it's about the principles, and we now know this.

Our votes aren't for sale, they aren't for a team, they aren't to keep the worst guy out of office. They are for the right principles, and those principles driving and binding the agenda. They always have been this way for us, but in the past we've been fooled into believing a vote for the party or the words or against the other guy would get us moving in the direction we seek.

We won't be fooled again.

[Anti Federalist]

I hope everybody sticks to their guns this time.

There was a lot of tough talk just like this, back in 2008, but when crunch time came, far too many went weak in the knees at voted McPain and the last minute.

I recall a couple epic threads on here about that very subject, how "Obama was just too dangerous to let in the WH! You MUST hold your nose and vote McPain for the good of the country!"

Lulz...maybe somebody whose Search Fu is stronger than mine can round a couple up and bump them.

In light of Obama=Bush third, they are even more hilarious.


Trust me when I say the GOP fears Ron Paul will cost them the election... they want to win, but know they cant w/o our support. Which if they had druthers, would rather have Obama win vs RP getting the nomination.

So please, people dont consider voting for Obomber!

Either Ron gets the nod and we win against Obombya, or we write in Ron Paul - and we should stick to that!

[specsaregood]

There was a lot of tough talk just like this, back in 2008, but when crunch time came, far too many went weak in the knees at voted McPain and the last minute.


There were also plenty that went weak at the knees and voted for Obama for similar reasons.
Those are 2 badges of shame I'm glad I don't have to wear.

[Working Poor]

it could cost them the election


that's right ass holes

[Napoleon's Shadow]

I find pissing off the media a fruitless endeavor. No, because it can change their tune, if ever slightly. Witness the last 72 hours.

[The Free Hornet]

But then Rand 2016 goes up in smoke. Ron Paul knows what's best. I will support whatever decision he makes. But yeah, it's Ron Paul or four more years of Obama/Bush.

Not only that, but any right-thinking or libertarian/Objectivist-leaning candidate could be viewed as toxic in future elections. It is too soon to abandon the Republican party in its entirety (and there are political reasons not to as the parties have power that was never intended to exist). It has been said before that Ron Paul is a statesman. But if it is 50:50 with Ron Paul vs NeoconOfTheYear and there are further Primary ethics breaches to cause the results to be questioned - not the process so much but the results - then ... that is a different question.

I would not want to see him as a Ralph Nader. This is NOT because I am retarded like Bachmann and want Obama gone at any cost. Rather, I don't think the strategy is helpful. There are at least three ways to "Nader" an election that don't involve a Nader:

1) Vote Libertarian or Constitution Party

2) skip the Presidential vote and focus on the other races

3) vote Obama - this has TWICE the protest affect of 1 or 2 as you cancel out a Neocon vote.

Best of all, there is no need for coordination. All three choices have the same affect (#3 more so). A campaign to derail a neocon? They'll shoot themselves in the foot. I'm glad McCain isn't in the Whitehouse. He would of spent more and with less opposition. Believe it. He would be stimulating the f___ out of this economy with equally disastrous results.

[Peace&Freedom]

Not only that, but any right-thinking or libertarian/Objectivist-leaning candidate could be viewed as toxic in future elections. It is too soon to abandon the Republican party in its entirety (and there are political reasons not to as the parties have power that was never intended to exist). It has been said before that Ron Paul is a statesman. But if it is 50:50 with Ron Paul vs NeoconOfTheYear and there are further Primary ethics breaches to cause the results to be questioned - not the process so much but the results - then ... that is a different question.


You do realize that if Paul somehow does win the nomination, the neocons/establishment are going to run a third party candidate, to defeat Paul or to ensure Obama is reelected? Remember, the Rockefeller GOP folks walked out of the '64 convention and did their best to ensure Goldwater's defeat, so a fully compliant establishment Republican could be elected in future cycles. They are willing to spoil in order to later win, and so should we.

The Republicans have had 80+ years to reverse some aspect of the welfare/warfare state---it IS high time to abandon them, as they have long since had their chance to accomplish something. The entire reason why the Tea Party people have had their impact is because they caused the political estabishment pain (lost seats, defeated incumbents) in the last cycle, which terrified Democrats into demonizing them, and the GOP into working with them. A strong third party Paul run will be a devastating show of power by the liberty movement, and will likewise steer the GOP into working with the heir to the movement, Rand Paul, come 2016.