PDA

View Full Version : Guy Fawkes reference completely debunked.




James R
11-02-2007, 08:31 PM
The following is taken from
http://www.rhymes.org.uk/remember_remember_the_5th_november.htm

QUOTE:
"In England the 5th of November is still commemorated each year with fireworks and bonfires culminating with the burning of effigies of Guy Fawkes."

The website states that "Remember, Remember, the 5th of November" is from a poem. It goes on to explain that the entire purpose of the poem is to remind people that committing treason will not be tolerated. So there you have it.

Summary:
Fact 1: "Remember, Remember, the 5th of November" originates from an English poem where the idea is that committing treason will not be tolerated.
Fact 2: November 5 is celebrated only in Britain.
Fact 3: Britain celebrates November 5 by burning Guy Fawkes in effigy, because after all he is a traitor.

So, if you ever see anyone try to peg us as anarchists because of the November 5th reference, remind them
1. Sorry but an anti-Paul guy must have brainwashed you, because in fact the saying "Remember, Remember the 5th of November" is from an English poem about how committing treason is horrible and will be punished.
2. November 5th is actually a day where Britain burns Guy Fawkes in effigy since they hated his guts. The guys who chose the date must have hated Guy Fawkes and his plot to commit treason.

In reality I think few who donate on the 5th actually know or care about what "Remember, Remember the 5th of Remember" means. They just like Ron Paul and want him to be president.

literatim
11-02-2007, 09:37 PM
I have been telling people that November 5th is the celebration for foiling the gun powder plot.

Naraku
11-02-2007, 09:46 PM
Not to mention the intent is more about revolution against treason and destruction of the nation.

The whole November 5th matter is poetic and in all honesty I think it is more intended to flip the idea on its head with the government being guilty of treason and the people revolting against an undemocratic government. It capitalizes on the idea of revolution, change, and fighting treason all associated with the date, more than anything else.

BrianH
11-02-2007, 09:55 PM
Ron Pauls supporters come in all shapes and sizes. Many like the word "revolution" as a rallying cry. Others are offended by that - thinking it puts attention on what we dislike rather than what we like. To embrace all the supporters who prefer to distance themselves from the word "revolution" I have been thinking about the idea for a national rally day on December 1st and make it positive - a celebration.

The words that come to mind are "Ron Paul Rally for Peace and Liberty" as a one day event on the first day of December as we go into the holiday season.

I grew up in UK and love the Guy Fawkes celebration - but secretly we always thought we were celebrating the attempt to the blow up parliament, not the failure - that was just the official cover story. It's all good fun and if people want to speculate then I say let them.

Thrice
11-02-2007, 11:41 PM
It doesn't matter. Using November 5th when trying to court a Republican audience was a dumb idea.

(and, completely "unrelated", V for Vendetta sucked.)

Kregener
11-02-2007, 11:43 PM
We can now all sleep at night.

Until someone creates the next crisis...

rajibo
11-02-2007, 11:48 PM
I'm donating because Natalie Portman looks really hot when trying to seduce a corrupt bishop.

Austin
11-03-2007, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the tips, this will inevitably come in handy.

dircha
11-03-2007, 04:02 PM
If it hadn't been for the long history of people like the conspirators on that fateful November 5th who are willing to commit "treason" to stand up to tyranny and oppression, our nation wouldn't exist as we know it today.

You can suck on that.

torchbearer
11-03-2007, 04:09 PM
If it hadn't been for the long history of people like the conspirators on that fateful November 5th who are willing to commit "treason" to stand up to tyranny and oppression, our nation wouldn't exist as we know it today.

You can suck on that.

I like the taste of liberty.... and rest assured, if we can't take our country back peacefully, we still have a few patriots in the country that do remember the 5th of November.
The thugs that have been raping our country will not live to enjoy their cushy congressional pension plans if they continue on this same course for much longer.
We are at our breaking point with this BS, and if they don't get out now or leave soon, they will be victims of more than a gunpowder plot.

Some one needs to send them a polite warning, out of true concern for their safety. Tell them the gig is up, and that the American people will give them until the end of their current term to pack their offices and go home. all will be forgiven... unless, they refuse to step down... then they will know what Saddam was thinking right before he fell through the swinging door.

SewrRatt
11-03-2007, 05:36 PM
I like the taste of liberty.... and rest assured, if we can't take our country back peacefully, we still have a few patriots in the country that do remember the 5th of November.
The thugs that have been raping our country will not live to enjoy their cushy congressional pension plans if they continue on this same course for much longer.
We are at our breaking point with this BS, and if they don't get out now or leave soon, they will be victims of more than a gunpowder plot.

Some one needs to send them a polite warning, out of true concern for their safety. Tell them the gig is up, and that the American people will give them until the end of their current term to pack their offices and go home. all will be forgiven... unless, they refuse to step down... then they will know what Saddam was thinking right before he fell through the swinging door.

Are you trying to get disappeared?

torchbearer
11-03-2007, 06:05 PM
Are you trying to get disappeared?

I'm a public figure, I dare them.

TooConservative
11-03-2007, 06:36 PM
Send us a postcard from Guantanom, torchbearer.

Ridiculous
11-06-2007, 11:57 AM
Nothing was debunked

Guy Fawkes day is celibrated by many in sort of jest. Kids ask for a "penny for the guy" so they can buy fireworks... ie blow stuff up....

A common phrase is that Fawkes was "the only man to ever enter parliament with honorable intentions"

They are considering banning Faweks Night in Austrailia because people make homemade fireworks, and .... blow shit up.

People on here were "on Guy Fawkes side" prior to the 5th. A Guy Fawkes quote can be seen in the CNN Situation Room piece from a Youtube vid that was originally at the top of the thisnovember5thsite. The V character is based on Fawkes. So the original association was made because of the V/Guy Fawkes association. Not because the plot was foiled. You'd basically be saying we are making donations because of the symbolism foiling of the gunpowder plot but also because we like the themes of V for Vendetta where parliament is blown up. That doesn't make any damn sense.

You are basically just trying to spin it after the fact.

In the movie V succeeds where Guy Fawkes failed, so it wouldn't make any sense to use the foiling of the original gunpowder plot as an association when a lot of people on here were pro the V for Vendetta association. It is contradictory.



And as far as the Boston Tea party, it is all about perception, which I have said from the beginning. I guarantee you that that association won't be painted negatively by the media. They'll find something else I'm sure, but not that. It is a patriotic piece of Americana and it would make them look bad to criticize it.

huchahucha
11-06-2007, 03:19 PM
Nobody has ever asked me, but if they did I would tell them we had to go with a 'V is for Vendetta' themed fundraiser because a 'High School Musical' themed fundraiser would have been totally lame.

Wyurm
11-06-2007, 03:32 PM
I don't know about you guys, you always look at the negative in the best positives. A little bit of that is good as it makes sure we stay on course and keep heading toward our goal of getting RP elected. However, once the train has already begun to roll and has passed the point where the plug can just be pulled, complaints tend to take a different tone. They change from warnings into sour grapes. Its like some want to hang on to their negativity just so they can say "see I told you so" when a hit-piece comes out. That negativity is what does us no good, not making 4+ mil in one day on Nov. 5th.

I'm sorry some of you don't like the idea of fighting against tyranny. Just because Fawkes chose a violent method doesn't mean we are going the same route and I felt that was explained quite well in interviews with the originator of this idea. So, kindly keep the "I told you so's" to yourself if you don't mind. After all, as long as we are doing anything other than giving up, there will be hit pieces and enemies a-plenty. Ron Paul was happy and that's what really matters to me.

scipio337
11-06-2007, 04:24 PM
I'm a public figure, I dare them.Then I doubt you're doing yourself any favors with the Turner Diaries attitude.

Did anyone here know who the hell Guy Fawkes was before the damn movie?

On a side note, V himself was an anarchist, not a conservative, or Republican.

thelastdiamond
11-06-2007, 04:31 PM
Ron Pauls supporters come in all shapes and sizes. Many like the word "revolution" as a rallying cry. Others are offended by that - thinking it puts attention on what we dislike rather than what we like. To embrace all the supporters who prefer to distance themselves from the word "revolution" I have been thinking about the idea for a national rally day on December 1st and make it positive - a celebration.

The words that come to mind are "Ron Paul Rally for Peace and Liberty" as a one day event on the first day of December as we go into the holiday season.

I grew up in UK and love the Guy Fawkes celebration - but secretly we always thought we were celebrating the attempt to the blow up parliament, not the failure - that was just the official cover story. It's all good fun and if people want to speculate then I say let them.

I like the appeal of "Ron Paul Rally for Peace and Liberty"!

hells_unicorn
11-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Then I doubt you're doing yourself any favors with the Turner Diaries attitude.

Did anyone here know who the hell Guy Fawkes was before the damn movie?

On a side note, V himself was an anarchist, not a conservative, or Republican.

I did, but mostly because my family is descended from Irish Catholic dissidents who left for America during the famines. Any story of someone standing up to the monarchs such as this was something of a tradition for them that circulated through the generations.

P.S. - The reason why the English are all too willing to take it up the rear from the government is because their schools propagandize them with this "treason" nonsense connected to the Guy Fawkes event. Treason is relative to the will of the public and has no real impact on objective truth. Catholics were persecuted, monasteries were looted, monks and priests were murdered, and all in the country not in the Anglican Church (as well as Catholics in their own colony Maryland, started by and for them) were forbidden to practice their faith in public.

James R
11-06-2007, 08:03 PM
Nobody has ever asked me, but if they did I would tell them we had to go with a 'V is for Vendetta' themed fundraiser because a 'High School Musical' themed fundraiser would have been totally lame.

It would seem to me that the controversy surrounding the date may have been why it turned out so successfully. The Boston Tea party date isn't as controversial. We'll see how that one turns out.

jmdrake
11-07-2007, 09:45 AM
I did, but mostly because my family is descended from Irish Catholic dissidents who left for America during the famines. Any story of someone standing up to the monarchs such as this was something of a tradition for them that circulated through the generations.

P.S. - The reason why the English are all too willing to take it up the rear from the government is because their schools propagandize them with this "treason" nonsense connected to the Guy Fawkes event. Treason is relative to the will of the public and has no real impact on objective truth. Catholics were persecuted, monasteries were looted, monks and priests were murdered, and all in the country not in the Anglican Church (as well as Catholics in their own colony Maryland, started by and for them) were forbidden to practice their faith in public.

And Catholic monarchs did the same thing to protestants whenever they got the chance.

Anyway, the whole 5th of November money bomb thing was billed as looking at the character from V for Vendetta as a hero and NOT as celebrating the foiling of the gun powder plot. As such it kinda made sense. We're standing up to a corrupt establishment even though we're using non violent means. But like most Americans ignorant of world history I had no idea of the Guy Fawkes story. And I've never brought myself to watch V for Vendetta. (Glad I didn't now). Really people we have actually dodged a bullet on this one. There were a lot of warnings that the media would take the V for Vendetta connection and run wild with it. But so far that's been a small minority of the coverage of this. Had I realized the gunpowder plot connection and the target was the king who published the most widely sold book in the world, I would have spoken out against this particular money bomb myself. I'm glad we raised the 4.2 million. Let's be thankful we didn't get more negative press and push forward to the next money bomb. Hopefully November 11 will eclipse November 5th, but I doubt it will. We may have to wait until the Boston Tea Party money bomb to bury Guy Fawkes ghost for good.

Regards,

John M. Drake